Christmas bonus - gone!!

useful_contacts

ynotdu wrote: »

I have read read every posting on this thread and wanted to add some facts about the dole.

The Christmas bonus was never paid to a dole recipient signing on for less than 15 months.

THANK YOU!!!

Id people on here accusing me of lying about that

aare

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll agree with you to a degree regarding women finding it difficult to find employement at times. There has been an awful disrespect paid to the members of my mothers generation.

OUCH!! Less of the "M" word...it hurts...(she's probably younger than me!). Believe it or not, in the recession of the 80s, they had at least one budget aimed at encouraging women out of the workplace, and back home, to provide more jobs for men, and until 1990 they actually had an "unmarried woman's" allowance you could claim if you still weren't married at 42.

Deleted User wrote: »

But how many of the long term claiments never even bothered to try and get a job. They were far too happy to just sit at home and accept every hand out that they could get. It is this group which should suffer.

In the first place I wonder what you think it will achieve to make anyone, particularly "suffer"? Budget cuts are about finances, they are not punitive measures. But also, I have to agree with Scofflaw. There are people who are not specifically mentally ill, but still temperamentally unsuited to work, it's not deliberate, but nobody would employ them. Why punish them for that?

Hell, why punish anyone at all?? Unless we are very, very lucky, we are all going to suffer, what does it achieve to "make examples" of any social group you don't understand or relate to? And, in my experience, 9 times out of ten that is all even the most rabid disapproval really is, a failure to understand, and/or relate to someone.

Deleted User wrote: »

I can name quite a few. There is a small percentage of our country who deem it acceptable to live off welfare and then have the sudacity to complain when even a small amount is taken off of them.

Then "punishing" that small percentage is hardly going to save the nation, and may inspire them to turn to crime so why do it?

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh many of those people are all ready living off the proceeds of crime. It's called fraud. Do you really think that it's fair for someone who has been working the past 20 years to be getting the same as someone who has lived off the dole their entire lives never once contributing anything to society?

Do you think it is healthy to starve those same people for your own satisfaction?

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said before there are two forms of dole claiment, those who are out of work due to a lack of jobs and those who would prefer to stay at home and live off the charity of the government and tax payers.

But who would you appoint to be the judge of which is which and guarantee to get it right?

Quartet

Allah Hu Akbar wrote: »

Isn't is illegal for landlords not to take it?

People should be in council houses and not paying hugh rents.

The essential point here is still being missed. Who do you think is subsidising both rent allowance and the construction and repayment of Council houses?

The Taxpayer!

It really doesnt matter if its a "Huge Rent" or subsidised rent in a council House.

The economics of this crazy country means that council houses cost more to build than your average private one....

So no it is not necessarily cheaper for everybody to be in Council Houses

I have asked this before who will pay for all this?

With more social welfare claimants having to be accommodated there is simply not enough taxpayers left out there to pay the huge social welfare costs that have built up and that are set to double.

Everyone - taxpayers and welfare recipients will have to take cuts if we are to provide ANY welfare to the increased numbers requiring benefits

We are in the ludicrous situation that following the massive tax hike that some of those in employment will now be forced over the edge and may have to rely on state benefits thereby further reducing the tax collected!!!

So stop arguing about how much space we have in the lifeboats as there are many more that are yet to get on.

There is No Massive Cookie Jar in the Sky

Hagar

John 11:35

Quartet

Hagar wrote: »

John 11:35

At least he wasn't bemoaning the loss of his Christmas Bonus

Hagar

And lo from the East came three kings two kings a king bearing gifts feck all...

lizzydrip

At the risk of having my head bitten off I'd like to ask why our government is still supporting foreign nationals for social welfare, childrens allowance etc?? And I have my hand on my heart when I say I don't mean that from any kind of racist or derogatory way but our country is falling down around our knees and so far in any of the budgets this area neither seems to have been tackled or even mentioned! I lived in Australia for a few years and the bottom line is simple, you're more than welcome to visit or live in the country as long as you're willing to work and support yourself, absolutely no handouts are given to non residents. This also applies to many other countries. They look after their residents only and it works for them.
Don't get me wrong I know there are many foreign nationals who have been working honestly in Ireland and paying their taxes like the rest of us and are unemployed through no fault of their own so I agree they should receive some benefits in lieu of their stamps or else they should get a tax rebate when leaving the country but other than that I think right now this area needs to be assessed. It can't be ignored that for many foreign nations its still better to be living in Ireland on the dole than it is for them to be working full time back in the own country. So I'm just a little bit baffled as to why this doesn't seem to be an option to our government, maybe someone can shed a little light on it for me? I must be missing something?

ionix5891

lizzydrip wrote: »

At the risk of having my head bitten off I'd like to ask why our government is still supporting foreign nationals for social welfare, childrens allowance etc?? And I have my hand on my heart when I say I don't mean that from any kind of racist or derogatory way but our country is falling down around our knees and so far in any of the budgets this area neither seems to have been tackled or even mentioned! I lived in Australia for a few years and the bottom line is simple, you're more than welcome to visit or live in the country as long as you're willing to work and support yourself, absolutely no handouts are given to non residents. This also applies to many other countries. They look after their residents only and it works for them.
Don't get me wrong I know there are many foreign nationals who have been working honestly in Ireland and paying their taxes like the rest of us and are unemployed through no fault of their own so I agree they should receive some benefits in lieu of their stamps or else they should get a tax rebate when leaving the country but other than that I think right now this area needs to be assessed. It can't be ignored that for many foreign nations its still better to be living in Ireland on the dole than it is for them to be working full time back in the own country. So I'm just a little bit baffled as to why this doesn't seem to be an option to our government, maybe someone can shed a little light on it for me? I must be missing something?

if you read the budget you would have noticed that they are gonna tighten the dole for non nationals and put in various measures

Quartet

lizzydrip wrote: »

At the risk of having my head bitten off I'd like to ask why our government is still supporting foreign nationals for social welfare, childrens allowance etc???

I think you will find that this thread is discussing the removal of Social Welfare Christmas Bonus and Rent Allowance changes

The above issue is being discussed here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055533964

seamus

useful_contacts wrote: »

THANK YOU!!!

Id people on here accusing me of lying about that

Which makes the whole thing more bizarre. Why would you give a bonus to the long-term unemployed, when surely it's the short-term unemployed who would have the most difficulty adapting to Christmas on the dole?

DubDani

I have to say I am happy they got rid of the XMAS bonus payment.

I never understood the XMAS Bonus anyway. Hardly any employed person I know gets a XMAS Bonus, so why should the unemployed?

PCros

DubDani wrote: »

I have to say I am happy they got rid of the XMAS bonus payment.

I never understood the XMAS Bonus anyway. Hardly any employed person I know gets a XMAS Bonus, so why should the unemployed?

Because an employed person earns a wage as opposed to €800 a month....

Which would you pick €2000 a month working or €800?

ionix5891

PCros wrote: »

Because an employed person earns a wage as opposed to €800 a month....

Which would you pick €2000 a month working or €800?

what would that €2000 a month be after taxes...

there are people who i can name who were sponging on welfare since last century, quite capable of working but proud of the fact that they have the life of larry

DubDani

PCros wrote: »

Because an employed person earns a wage as opposed to €800 a month....

Which would you pick €2000 a month working or €800?

But why should somebody be rewarded for not being working? If you are unemployed you don't have to right (IMO) to celebrate a big XMAS (in terms of excessive consume).

seamus

PCros wrote: »

Because an employed person earns a wage as opposed to €800 a month....

Which would you pick €2000 a month working or €800?

Yes, because people earning €2k a month have €1200 in liquid cash. Everyone lives within their means. Just because someone gets more than the dole, doesn't mean that they're flush with cash. One of the constants of economics - whether it's a nation's finance, a company's finance or an individual's finance, there is one truth - their spending will always expand to fit their means. Someone getting €2k a month is spending it, and they're not spending it wastefully.

PCros

ionix5891 wrote: »

what would that €2000 a month be after taxes...

there are people who i can name who were sponging on welfare since last century, quite capable of working but proud of the fact that they have the life of larry

According to the tax calculator €1,807.

I would still take that over €800.

PCros

DubDani wrote: »

But why should somebody be rewarded for not being working? If you are unemployed you don't have to right (IMO) to celebrate a big XMAS (in terms of excessive consume).

So you expect the 400,000 people (350,000 or so genuine) that have lost their jobs to get nothing?

PCros

seamus wrote: »

Yes, because people earning €2k a month have €1200 in liquid cash. Everyone lives within their means. Just because someone gets more than the dole, doesn't mean that they're flush with cash. One of the constants of economics - whether it's a nation's finance, a company's finance or an individual's finance, there is one truth - their spending will always expand to fit their means. Someone getting €2k a month is spending it, and they're not spending it wastefully.

Are you trying to say that people on the dole who get €800 don't have to pay bills?? That they can just spend it on whatever?

DubDani

PCros wrote: »

So you expect the 400,000 people (350,000 or so genuine) that have lost their jobs to get nothing?

No, but I would expect them to not be in need of the Bonus payment. What extra costs do you have just because it is XMAS, except the money you spend on presents and more (or more fancy) food?

seamus

PCros wrote: »

Are you trying to say that people on the dole who get €800 don't have to pay bills?? That they can just spend it on whatever?

Of course not. But they pay bills proportionate to what they can afford. Just like someone on €2k does.

snubbleste

PCros wrote: »

So you expect the 400,000 people (350,000 or so genuine) that have lost their jobs to get nothing?

The christmas bonus is just that, a discretionary payment.

Quartet

PCros wrote: »

According to the tax calculator €1,807.

I would still take that over €800.

Ok to your €800 benefit Add

Rent allowance
Medical Card
Qualified Adult + Child Benefit / Early Childcare
etc

From €1800 Take away (btw this should be €1600-1200 after all taxes, levies and charges are removed from via Paye etc)

Rent / Mortgage (say min €700)
Medical bills / Medical Insurance (€50 - €70 Euro just to talk to a doctor:eek:)
Daily expenses assoc with working but not tax deductable eg Clothes, Transport, food etc
Pension Payments

Now there is bugg*r all if anything btwn the two!

Why do we bother working and have give half your wages to some else?

There has to be some incentive to work, Kill the goose and there will be no eggs....

There is no Massive Coookie Jar in the Sky

PCros

Quartet wrote: »

Rent / Mortgage (say min €700)
Medical bills / Medical Insurance (€50 - €70 Euro just to talk to a doctor:eek:)
Daily expenses assoc with working but not tax deductable eg Clothes, Transport, food etc
Pension Payments

So people on the dole don't have to pay the above, we magically don't have to pay rent and medical bills aswell?
And eat?

Man wake up!

Quartet

PCros wrote: »

So people on the dole don't have to pay the above, we magically don't have to pay rent and medical bills aswell?
And eat?

Man wake up!

Read the rest of the post!
As detailed

MEDICAL CARD = See doctor for FREE (Workers dont get this!)
Rent Allowance / Local Authority Housing (Workers dont get this!)

Yes you will have to pay for food!

Wake up and smell the coffee (even if I can only afford the cheap Lidle Instant stuff......)

Kintarō Hattori

I don't understand what the fuss is about. My other half has been on the dole for the last few months and was shocked that people were given a christmas bonus. I told her the government had decided to withdraw it and her response... 'That's the way it should have been'.

partyatmygaff

Imo dole recipents this year and their families should be glad they have a home to live in this christmas and not presents or fancy food.

Keyzer

Richard Dower wrote: »

OMG! :mad: ...and they are cutting rent suppliment, i can't belive this!!!!!

:mad:

This makes me sick...

I'm working since I was 16, I'm now 32.

In all those years the most I ever got at xmas was a bottle of wine and a thank you...

You get a bonus for sitting on your arse - ridiculous country....

Get a job...

partyatmygaff

Any dole taker who complains about getting any of their payments cut should not be allowed claim the dole.

Getting paid to do nothing by people who work hard all day is a luxury of living in a welfare state, not a right.

Most countries do not pay a cent to people who lose their jobs or are "unemployable/lazy"(Minus of course pensioners or disabled)

aare

Quartet wrote: »

The essential point here is still being missed. Who do you think is subsidising both rent allowance and the construction and repayment of Council houses?

The Taxpayer!

It really doesnt matter if its a "Huge Rent" or subsidised rent in a council House.

The economics of this crazy country means that council houses cost more to build than your average private one....

So no it is not necessarily cheaper for everybody to be in Council Houses

Try telling THAT to anyone in Government! It's a great area to shuffle figures senselessly in hence the RAS (which, at full implementation would only have served to diversify the rent supplement bill, in part, into different local councils, and not reduce it at all).

Regardless, people cannot survive in our climate without a home, let alone be in a fit state to work again, , and forcing them into inadequate housing in times of financial instability creates cycles of poverty that can takes decades, and generations to break, so that rented accommodation needs to cost whatever it costs and not be used as a "backdoor" to cuts in the rate of SW in hard times, or cushioning rises in the rate of SW pre-election.

BUT...ultimately, reducing that bill get's a great deal easier if ready made housing can be purchased at a lower cost than building...which, in a roundabout way, is part of what the bank buy-out will achieve.

But not overnight...

Ireland is a country that rapidly changed from having very low private rents to one with stratospheric private rents. Rents in the lower ranges will not fall significantly for at leat another 112 months, and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to force SW claimants to find cheaper housing that does not exist yet.

I suppose, for a year or two, you could let unemployed people buy a caravan with their redundancy money, and use areas like the Curragh to park it? Just until the economy recovers, of course...:rolleyes:

Leave out all considerations of compassion, the LAST thing the government want now are legions of homeless to house...

aare

DubDani wrote: »

No, but I would expect them to not be in need of the Bonus payment. What extra costs do you have just because it is XMAS, except the money you spend on presents and more (or more fancy) food?

Often the highest winter heating bills of the year...