Christmas bonus - gone!!

NTLsucks

Cathy666 wrote: »

I work hard all year, I don't get a bonus at Christmas. So why should my taxes pay for people who spend their lives on the social welfare to get a Christmas bonus. Save up like the rest of us and quit whinging.
Job Seekers Allowance welfare, as said earlier in this thread, should be reduced by a set amount for every year after the first 12 months, in my opinion. There have been people sitting on the dole, even in the height of the Celtic Tiger, with no intention of getting a job and guess what, they still have no intention of getting one now. These are the people who should be hit hardest. We have one of the most generous welfare systems in the EU, yet people are so self-centred that they still moan over a Christmas bonus, even though the country is going to ****. Save up and buy Christmas presents in advance or stop being so materialistic. Why should the Government and tax-payers, like me, pay for Christmas? That's ridiculous.

Reduce jobseekers? Are you joking, it is only 204 a week for god sake. You want to reduce the income of the poorest section of soceity...for god sake why would you take even more money off people who already have very little, that is a typical FF tactic. the xmas bonus is essentail to some people, u mightnt realise it but not all of us can afford to buy presents and have a bit of a laugh in the pub without it..the bonus gives us the opportunity to enjoy xmas like other members of soceity.

whats rediculous is the people in this thread who want to take more money off the poorest sectoin of soceity, the people who are on the dole and who may be on it for a long time.

CamperMan

why should the dole bums get a christmas bonus, it's about time that was stopped!!!

Kimbot

NTLsucks wrote: »

Reduce jobseekers? Are you joking, it is only 204 a week for god sake. You want to reduce the income of the poorest section of soceity...for god sake why would you take even more money off people who already have very little, that is a typical FF tactic. the xmas bonus is essentail to some people, u mightnt realise it but not all of us can afford to buy presents and have a bit of a laugh in the pub without it..the bonus gives us the opportunity to enjoy xmas like other members of soceity.

whats rediculous is the people in this thread who want to take more money off the poorest sectoin of soceity, the people who are on the dole and who may be on it for a long time.

Oh so the tax payer has to pay for you to have a laugh in the pub now??

I can't even remember the last time I was in a pub or had any sort of a night out. You don't see the government giving me a bonus so I can go out now do you?

I enjoy christmas and don't spend a fortune to do so either. I normally have to save up for a few months just to make sure I can get something small for the nephews and nieces every year. How come you can't do the same with your normal money and forget about going out once a week etc.

NTLsucks

NTLsucks wrote: »

Reduce jobseekers? Are you joking, it is only 204 a week for god sake. You want to reduce the income of the poorest section of soceity...for god sake why would you take even more money off people who already have very little, that is a typical FF tactic. the xmas bonus is essentail to some people, u mightnt realise it but not all of us can afford to buy presents and have a bit of a laugh in the pub without it..the bonus gives us the opportunity to enjoy xmas like other members of soceity.

whats rediculous is the people in this thread who want to take more money off the poorest sectoin of soceity, the people who are on the dole and who may be on it for a long time.

No one is advocating taking money from the poorest of the poor, just people like you who seem to relish in abusing the system. in fact if anything it's you anr you kind who are taking money from the people who truly deserve it.

Are your parents and siblings in long term employement or has your entire family been defrauding the government for as long as possible.

aare

Cancelling the Christmas payment (specifically for 2009), though sad, is actually quite a shrewd move.

It's better to cancel it now than to wait until Budget 2010 when people will already be counting on it. On the other hand, if there is an upturn, there is still room to restore it just in time for Christmas as a, relatively cheap, much needed, boost to morale...

Also, they are throwing around this "effective 2%" reduction in social welfare, when, in fact it would take a 3% reduction in the social welfare base rate to achieve the same figure in the same time frame, and, of course, they couldn't give THAT back in time for Christmas, not matter what.

These are horrible times...but, on the whole, this was a good move.

Cathy666

NTLsucks wrote: »

Reduce jobseekers? Are you joking, it is only 204 a week for god sake. You want to reduce the income of the poorest section of soceity...for god sake why would you take even more money off people who already have very little, that is a typical FF tactic. the xmas bonus is essentail to some people, u mightnt realise it but not all of us can afford to buy presents and have a bit of a laugh in the pub without it..the bonus gives us the opportunity to enjoy xmas like other members of soceity.

whats rediculous is the people in this thread who want to take more money off the poorest sectoin of soceity, the people who are on the dole and who may be on it for a long time.

Yes, reduce it. €204 is plenty, more than is deserved to be honest. Judging by your previous posts in this thread, you don't deserve to be receiving €204. Let's just recap on two of your earlier posts:

did u ever think someone of us might'n t want a job? there is such thing as the right not to work in soceity you know. what are people who dont want a job supposed to do for xmas now that the bonus is gone?

there is no way im spendin a summer flipping burgers in mcdonalds like a retard when i could be out havin a few cans and a laugh.

Why should my hard-earned tax money fund your drinking habits? Cop on! I have no sympathy for people like you. Apparently it's not a FF tactic, or did you miss the budget today where they didn't reduce the benefit, lucky for you.:rolleyes: If you're not working, you need to alter your lifestyle to suit your income. I work crazy hours every week while you're off in the pub. It's a tough life, isn't it. You either need to cop on or else get down from your high horse and get a job flipping burgers.

O'Coonassa

They save about €150m per year doing this. If they hadn't given several billions to the banks then they wouldn't need to. Problem is that the political class don't want their other mates in the oligarchy to take the hit for their greed and bad gambling problems. Robbing the Christmas presents from the poorest kids in the country is a pretty shabby way for them to go about it I think.

po candidate

nice guy, how do you know that person is'nt using a library computer??, Its easy for people who hav'ent been affected by all of this yet ie loosing their jobs etc to begruge people on the dole, its no standard of living, i work and consider myself very lucky, but if i loose my job, i will NEED the dole,it is'nt the people on the dole that have put this country on its knees, its the scumbag bankers and developers, apart from the very few who ;ike not working, theres no incentive in being on the dole many don't have a choice now and either will any of you if you lose your job cos you won't just walk back into employment, not for atleast 18 months maybe longer.

O'Coonassa

Cathy666 wrote: »

I work hard all year, I don't get a bonus at Christmas. So why should my taxes pay for people who spend their lives on the social welfare to get a Christmas bonus.

Yes far better that instead many many times more of our tax money goes to the banksters, they're far more worthy than mere poor people and their kids at Christmas, what do they think it is the season of goodwill or something.

Good.

old boy

i suppose the 90 million to relieve the toxic debt of the banks is less than the extra week to the less well off at christmas.

NTLsucks

O'Coonassa wrote: »

They save about €150m per year doing this. If they hadn't given several billions to the banks then they wouldn't need to. Problem is that the political class don't want their other mates in the oligarchy to take the hit for their greed and bad gambling problems. Robbing the Christmas presents from the poorest kids in the country is a pretty shabby way for them to go about it I think.

well said

Richard Dower

It's 90 BILLION!!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

joeystrider

I think, in order for it to be a fair budget, both the bankers and those on social welfare should bear the brunt. Not one or the other or neither.

Gary ITR

Christmas 2006... Got an extra weeks wages from my employer
Christmas 2007... Got a €30 all for one voucher
Christmas 2008... Got a christmas card

So it's been 2 years since I got a christmas bonus that was worth something.

carlybabe1

Cost of living has dropped but standard welfare is at the same level.

Eh let me know where you do your shopping, cause any supermarket Ive shopped in has upped thier prices

I don't have a problem with a reduction in rent supplement either. Rents have dropped massively. I think single people getting rent allowance have a very good standard of living at the moment.

Id love to know where you're getting your information cause when you're getting rent allowance its anything but a decent standard of living. And if you try to get a job, or indeed get a fas course they deduct everything bar 50 euros a week from your rent allowance.

I believe in protecting them, I believe in not making them have to live on crap food and I think it should cover some extra entertainment. I think the current welfare allowances are more than enough.

Are you a politician by any chance, cause you're that out of touch with the reality of having to live on the dole

Anyone complaining is either not on it or doesn't realise the state of the economy in which case you mustn't be looking for work.

Oh the IRONY :rolleyes: try spending some time getting your facts straight before posting your opinions

You have to laugh/wonder what they think of us, the people of Ireland, sod the people on welfare that need this at Xmas but they won't lower/stop the money they give to overseas aid.

That's this coutry all over, look after everyone else, foreigners here and overseas and sod us Irish :mad:

ionix5891

hellboy99 wrote: »

You have to laugh/wonder what they think of us, the people of Ireland, sod the people on welfare that need this at Xmas but they won't lower/stop the money they give to overseas aid.

That's this coutry all over, look after everyone else, foreigners here and overseas and sod us Irish :mad:

i would rather my taxmoney help starving children in places that have no food (indirectly caused by the crazy Irish/EU agricultural policies)

than go to people complaining here that they wont afford a holiday on the dole this year

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Highsider

I don't get a Xmas bonus. Why should dole heads

gcgirl

The cost of living costs a hell of alot more in this country then in the UK or France i have family in both counties and Health & Education are far better than here ! Would you wait to see an ENT Consultant for over a year? Does not happen in France 6 weeks waiting max! No Xmas bonus means more people will be getting loans off High APR Loan companies and Furthering their Debt!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

carlybabe1

hellboy99 wrote: »

You have to laugh/wonder what they think of us, the people of Ireland, sod the people on welfare that need this at Xmas but they won't lower/stop the money they give to overseas aid.

That's this coutry all over, look after everyone else, foreigners here and overseas and sod us Irish :mad:

Couldnt agree more +1

gcgirl

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I know a hell of a lot more people on the dole since the whole bubble burst and they are not going on hoildays! They can barley scape 2 cent together! Let alone go on a holiday!

They are either **** or making fraudulent claims !

joeystrider

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I know a guy who is going to the philippines for a month. In the last few years he has visited every continent bar Antarctica.

He has been on the dole for approx 15 years and lives at home, rent and bill free.

This sadly brings out the most right wing sentiments in me. I work, pay rent and bills, attend college and don't get to travel like this.

Take a hit, Christmas is a luxury not a right. Get back to basics and buy thoughtful gifts and go easy on partying and decorations. It is hard and grey but must be done.

And people like the above ought to be stripped of their welfare.They are leeches on society and not unfortunates hit by the economic dowturn.

Anyway it is middle income earners with families who are being taxed most by this budget.

po candidate

highsider

You could be a dole head soon, like many of us on the brink of losing our jobs.

97i9y3941

heard if you are on it for long enough that you can get holiday allowance,thats nuts

sceptre

joeystrider wrote: »

I know a guy who is going to the philippines for a month. In the last few years he has visited every continent bar Antarctica.

He has been on the dole for approx 15 years and lives at home, rent and bill free.

This sadly brings out the most right wing sentiments in me. I work, pay rent and bills, attend college and don't get to travel like this.

I'm not surprised, it'd annoy me. But that's not necesssarily a fault in the system of social welfare or that we have social welfare or how much we give in social welfare, it's a fault in how the system rates this guy or that he gets it at all or how much he's given.

We can solve that by changing one or all of the three potential faults rather than by putting everyone else in the same basket based on this one guy. Yes, I know there are hundreds of them, probably thousands. Chase them all down. And that should always be done, even if it costs a bit more than the amount saved by just giving them the money. Because if it is done, society is fairer and we're all less likely to begrudge everyone on the dole the money they get based on the relative few people who shouldn't be getting it.

This thing the social welfare people are doing now, where suddenly it's important that they crack down on fraudulent claims, just makes it look like they weren't doing their jobs properly for the past decade because they decided there wasn't a problem as the country was awash with money.

RealityCheck

hellboy99 wrote: »

You have to laugh/wonder what they think of us, the people of Ireland, sod the people on welfare that need this at Xmas but they won't lower/stop the money they give to overseas aid.

That's this coutry all over, look after everyone else, foreigners here and overseas and sod us Irish :mad:

Whinge...whinge...whinge

I mean a bit of perspective wouldnt go a miss. It is not as if we are suffering from mass starvation or anything. We are becoming a nation of whingers. I mean Social Welfare was hardly touched and overseas aid was reduced.

gcgirl

joeystrider wrote: »

I know a guy who is going to the philippines for a month. In the last few years he has visited every continent bar Antarctica.

He has been on the dole for approx 15 years and lives at home, rent and bill free.

This sadly brings out the most right wing sentiments in me. I work, pay rent and bills, attend college and don't get to travel like this.

Take a hit, Christmas is a luxury not a right. Get back to basics and buy thoughtful gifts and go easy on partying and decorations. It is hard and grey but must be done.

And people like the above ought to be stripped of their welfare.They are leeches on society and not unfortunates hit by the economic dowturn.

Anyway it is middle income earners with families who are being taxed most by this budget.

How did he not have a job in the last 15 years Any person could of got a job and how does he live at home rent free? When i lived at home i always gave up money to the old dear just as the rest of the family did and my kids provided they live in my house when they are older will be paying up towards bills ect!

KittyeeTrix

ionix5891 wrote: »

someone quoted it takes 70,000-100,000 to raise a child to adulthood in this country, did you think about how you will afford to raise so many children (analogous to taking out a 400k mortgage) before making them?
.

To be honest no I didn't think too much about it. I have to say though that I am happier to spend 300,000 grand raising these children than paying a 300,000 grand mortgage like many of our friends who now cannot afford to have children!!!!!!!
They are the ones I really feel sorry for....
They spend their whole week working to pay their mortgage on 4-5 bedroom homes which are destined to remain empty.
We won't be on the dole forever, as soon as the economy picks up we will be back out to work, but we will be working for our kids and not for a pile of bricks.
And before someone says it, no, we do not have a council flat or house.
We were lucky enough to have got our own house 6 years ago in the country on third of an acre of land.
It's not huge but it is sufficient.

At the end of our days I will be glad to see my 4 beautiful kids around me. I don't think my house or plasma screen or 4x4 will give me the same satisfaction!!!!!!
And I know you weren't being cold so thanks:)
But reading these posts have been an eye opener for me about how some people regard other people on the dole:(

daveirl

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm all for helping people less fortunate, but we're in a bad enough mess as it is and that extra money that goes overseas could do a lot here. Like the saying goes "charity begins at home".

joeystrider

gcgirl wrote: »

How did he not have a job in the last 15 years Any person could of got a job and how does he live at home rent free? When i lived at home i always gave up money to the old dear just as the rest of the family did and my kids provided they live in my house when they are older will be paying up towards bills ect!

I know... But he is your typical example of a lazy ass mummy's boy. Seriously he upsets me so badly.

sceptre wrote: »

I'm not surprised, it'd annoy me. But that's not necesssarily a fault in the system of social welfare or that we have social welfare or how much we give in social welfare, it's a fault in how the system rates this guy or that he gets it at all or how much he's given.

We can solve that by changing one or all of the three potential faults rather than by putting everyone else in the same basket based on this one guy. Yes, I know there are hundreds of them, probably thousands. Chase them all down. And that should always be done, even if it costs a bit more than the amount saved by just giving them the money. Because if it is done, society is fairer and we're all less likely to begrudge everyone on the dole the money they get based on the relative few people who shouldn't be getting it.

There are many many people who are abusing the welfare system. They should be cracked down upon.

I believe the whole thing should be means tested so that those who need the welfare, and at the moment many do and will, get it.

And yes I agree the money should be spent on hunting those who abuse. It is a question of integrity and of deterrence.

RealityCheck

RealityCheck wrote: »

Whinge...whinge...whinge

I mean a bit of perspective wouldnt go a miss. It is not as if we are suffering from mass starvation or anything. We are becoming a nation of whingers. I mean Social Welfare was hardly touched and overseas aid was reduced.

I'm not whinging, I'm being realistic. I'm not saying stop it or lower it for good, just do it till we can get our own country straightened out first.
Look if this government want to look at everything where they can save and get money quickly it's something to look at, they say they want fairness and for cutbacks across the board.

If you ask me too much money very quickly goes to overseass aids and charities, every month people knock on my door or leaflets through the letterbox and 90% of them are for non Irish related charities. We need to help ourselves first and when we do that and get this country of ours sorted out we will be in a far better position to help others in the long run.

KittyeeTrix

Fred83 wrote: »

heard if you are on it for long enough that you can get holiday allowance,thats nuts

Of course we need the hols allowance!!!!!
How would I look driving around in my convertible that the govt. gave me an allowance for if I was pale:rolleyes:

Get a grip for crying out loud!!!!!!!!

Chre59

Whenever I got a Christmas bonus, it was because of all the extra effort I put in on the run up to Christmas. Can someone tell me how one puts an extra effort in to their job when they are on the dole? Maybe get a bonus for getting a job and coming off the live register but there shouldn't be an extra payment for doing nothing.

I am in total agreement with reducing social welfare payments, social welfare should allow people to just make ends meet while they are temporarily out of work, it shouldn't allow for life's luxuries

joeystrider

As regards luxuries I do think that one must work to afford them. They are a bonus and reward for effort.

Again social welfare must be means tested.

gcgirl

joeystrider wrote: »

I know... But he is your typical example of a lazy ass mummy's boy. Seriously he upsets me so badly.




There are many many people who are abusing the welfare system. They should be cracked down upon.

I believe the whole thing should be means tested so that those who need the welfare, and at the moment many do and will, get it.

And yes I agree the money should be spent on hunting those who abuse. It is a question of integrity and of deterrence.

Bloody Irish Mothers!!


Plus any one who would like to report anyone

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/ContactUs/Pages/reportfraud.aspx

KittyeeTrix

Chre59 wrote: »

I am in total agreement with reducing social welfare payments, social welfare should allow people to just make ends meet while they are temporarily out of work, it shouldn't allow for life's luxuries

This is a fine suggestion but as you say for a temporary situation.
This recession is not a temporary situation as far as I know.....
Why not just take them into a field somewhere and put them all out of their misery and be done with it!!!!!!!!

joeystrider

gcgirl wrote: »

Bloody Irish Mothers!!

When I have children I refuse to fall into this bracket. I expect my children to fend for me in my golden years...

bobbiw

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I know,
It's hard enough at xmas but what the hell are we gonna do now?
You want to check out the 2009 budget as it happens thread, there are people in there saying that the welfare payments should all have been reduced!!!!!!
Honest to god, I don't get some people!!!!!!
I'll tell you what's gonna happen.... more young suicides, there is already a huge increase in suicide rates and cutting the dole for under 20's will tip many over the edge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Society shouldnt pay anything to these people at all let alone a christmas bonus.

In many countries you are given 6 months and thats it, you have to find work. Thats the way it should be, people in Ireland seem to think that even without working they should be given the right to a home, a car, clothes and food!!

Nonsense,

Everyone on the dole should be forced to clean the streets when not looking for work.

I think its terrible that you could go to the pub and realise that you are buying half the place a free drink with your taxes.

gcgirl

joeystrider wrote: »

When I have children I refuse to fall into this bracket. I expect my children to fend for me in my golden years...

Just like myself !!

Chre59

bobbiw wrote: »

Society shouldnt pay anything to these people at all let alone a christmas bonus.

In many countries you are given 6 months and thats it, you have to find work. Thats the way it should be, people in Ireland seem to think that even without working they should be given the right to a home, a car, clothes and food!!

Nonsense,

Everyone on the dole should be forced to clean the streets when not looking for work.

I think its terrible that you could go to the pub and realise that you are buying half the place a free drink with your taxes.

I totally agree, I'd always prefer to work, even if I had to take a wage cut, a demotion, or got to the end of my career ladder. I couldn't sit at home and even if I chose to then I don't think I should get paid for it.

joeystrider

bobbiw wrote: »

In many countries you are given 6 months and thats it, you have to find work. Thats the way it should be, people in Ireland seem to think that even without working they should be given the right to a home, a car, clothes and food!!.

The problem is that in the next few months many will find it hard to find work.

Those who continually strive to gain employment should be allowed dole as long as it takes. Those who do not should be penalized.

It is a question of means testing.

I think the question is not whether there should or should not be social welfare, rather who needs and deserves and how much is enough and how much is too much.

KittyeeTrix

bobbiw wrote: »

Society shouldnt pay anything to these people at all let alone a christmas bonus.

In many countries you are given 6 months and thats it, you have to find work. Thats the way it should be, people in Ireland seem to think that even without working they should be given the right to a home, a car, clothes and food!!

Nonsense,

Everyone on the dole should be forced to clean the streets when not looking for work.

The above scenario would be great if we weren't slap bang in the middle of a RECESSION.
Would you really begrudge people food, seems a tad harsh to me!!!!!!

You seem to forget that "these people" are also part of society:cool:

Please excuse the cool smiley, my young son wanted me to put it in!!!

gcgirl

Chre59 wrote: »

I totally agree, I'd always prefer to work, even if I had to take a wage cut, a demotion, or got to the end of my career ladder. I couldn't sit at home and even if I chose to then I don't think I should get paid for it.

What about the people who have been working their asses off for the last 15/16 years mid 30's now paid their taxes to the Government and cant find jobs? Yeh we dont owe them anything !! Thats rubbish!
Are you living in a bubble ? A Lot of people are out of work due to people creating a false economy Which fell,The real people are not being brought to justice !

bobbiw

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

The above scenario would be great if we weren't slap bang in the middle of a RECESSION.
Would you really begrudge people food, seems a tad harsh to me!!!!!!

You seem to forget that "these people" are also part of society:cool:

Please excuse the cool smiley, my young son wanted me to put it in!!!

Well I know people who have always worked very hard and are now facing a job loss these people deserve to be supported.

I also know other people who have never worked and in some way think it is their right to the dole. They have no intention to work and have never looked. They have children and a house that other people have to work hard for.

So for the former they should be supported, for the latter person I think to be honest they should get nothing. They should be forced to live with relatives. Its too cruel to say that their kids should be taken away from them but they should be made to suffer.

Perhaps food stamps as a way to pay for food like in the US. This is very humiliating for people as its very obvious but thats the way it should be.

The problem is Ireland does have a lot of people on the dole who dont want to work. These people should be taken off the list and not paid anything.


At the very least they should be forced to do some sort of community services.

joeystrider

gcgirl wrote: »

What about the people who have been working their asses off for the last 15/16 years mid 30's now paid their taxes to the Government and cant find jobs? Yeh we dont owe them anything !! Thats rubbish!
Are you living in a bubble ? A Lot of people are out of work due to people creating a false economy Which fell,The real people are not being brought to justice !

+1

Yes social welfare is in place to help people like this and in times like this.

We cannot strip everyone of the right to live because the economy has gone to pot.

Also this would end up with people living in abject poverty, such as in the USA. Do we really want families out begging?

And it would be hard to come back from that poverty. No car to travel to interviews or trainings places...

Also it would be detrimental to economic stimulus.

Chre59

gcgirl wrote: »

What about the people who have been working their asses off for the last 15/16 years mid 30's now paid their taxes to the Government and cant find jobs? Yeh we dont owe them anything !! Thats rubbish!
Are you living in a bubble ? A Lot of people are out of work due to people creating a false economy Which fell,The real people are not being brought to justice !

I am one of those people that worked my ass off for the last 17 years, but I was cautious in the good times saved up before I bought a house, was able to take out a 40% mortgage. I now have savings beyond my annual salary. I shouldn't and won't pay for people who were reckless.

So it's a good job I no longer live in Ireland.