Christmas bonus - gone!!

sub-x

bobbiw wrote: »

Christmas Bonus was joke, why give benefits to someone who is a failure.

This is the problem with the system, I remember some little tramp coming to try and rent my property, she had a kid and the goverment were going to pay for her to live in a four bedroom house.

to be honest 30 years ago she would have had her kid put up for adoption and she would be working in a convent laundry.

Still they call it progress.

The hard working people of Ireland that have been hit with hard times deserve to be helped and receive as much support as possible to get back to work.

the lazy scumbag wasters who have not worked in years should have no benefits for them or their children, their children need to suffer because of poverty and understand that they need to work.

You must support FF ??? make children suffer ??? there but for the grace of God my friend.You refer to the above girl as a tramp because she is a single mother,wow you must enjoy looking down on all the little people from your pedestal of snobbery.

hot2def

I was shocked to discover there WAS a "christmas 'bouns".

I have friends who went to college on a full grant, some even on so called back to education schemes, have never worked a job,been on the dole from the second they left their free college, get dole, rent allowence, where shipped over seas by the tax payer on "springboard" courses, faffed about doing FAS courses in whatever ammused them, AND THEY WERE GETTING A CHRISTMAS BONUS?!?!?!?

And these aren't people from disadvantaged areas or families or physically disabled. Why the hell should I work for minimum wage - when the taxpayer provides such an appealing alternative? And as a woman, if having kids takes my fancy, I certainly shouldn't have to consider whether its I can afford it. Society owes me kids. And chirstmas.


If anyone is really thinking this was an unkind budget - just you wait for the next one...

O'Coonassa

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Unfortunately not. First the banks are needed for business to survive. If the banks collapse a lot of business would too and a lot more people would be on the dole increasing our social spending.

Secondly the public finances need to be balanced. If we borrow money to pay them this year which is what you are suggesting as we borrowed money to help the banks then we need to borrow again next year, and the next year and the next year as so on. The EU will not allow this, we have been given 5 years to get our borrowing in order.

But not all the banks would collapse by any means, all that would happen is that the inefficient ones would be culled, others would emerge stronger and people would take their business there instead. That's how the free market works so far as I'm aware.

The public finances are in a mess because of borrowing to bail out the banks. I still maintain we didn't need to do that and should have let the market take care of the problem.

Spud83

O'Coonassa wrote: »

But not all the banks would collapse by any means, all that would happen is that the inefficient ones would be culled, others would emerge stronger and people would take their business there instead. That's how the free market works so far as I'm aware.

Just ask your self why are so many large countries bailing out banks and supporting them if they didn't need to. This is not unique to Ireland. Other banks would not pick up the slack as the don't have the balance sheets to do it. They simple don't have the credit and certainly ain't willing to release it to support business, and consumers.

If not all the banks are in trouble then why is is so hard to get credit from any banks. Would business not already be taking there business else where?

O'Coonassa wrote: »

The public finances are in a mess because of borrowing to bail out the banks. I still maintain we didn't need to do that and should have let the market take care of the problem.

Not the public finances are in a mess because are spending is higher than our tax take. Nothing to do with borrowing to bail out the banks. We are spending more in health, social welfare, capital projects whatever else normal government business then we are taking in tax.

We are borrowing to bail out the banks.

We are taxing and cutting to balance our public finances.

emma27

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I know,
It's hard enough at xmas but what the hell are we gonna do now?
You want to check out the 2009 budget as it happens thread, there are people in there saying that the welfare payments should all have been reduced!!!!!!
Honest to god, I don't get some people!!!!!!
I'll tell you what's gonna happen.... more young suicides, there is already a huge increase in suicide rates and cutting the dole for under 20's will tip many over the edge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are only toffee nosed selfish c**ts. Havent even given a thought to all the men and women that had good jobs and lost them and are depending on the 200 euro to put food in their childrens mouths. People in this country are gone awful ignorant and stuck up. Ignore people like that they probly all voted for fianna fail and still will in the next election.

Helix

emma27 wrote: »

They are only toffee nosed selfish c**ts. Havent even given a thought to all the men and women that had good jobs and lost them and are depending on the 200 euro to put food in their childrens mouths. People in this country are gone awful ignorant and stuck up. Ignore people like that they probly all voted for fianna fail and still will in the next election.

those people would probably be able to get more money from the government if it wasnt for all the lazy wasters claiming dole for prolonged periods because they cant be arsed getting jobs

emma27

Helix wrote: »

those people would probably be able to get more money from the government if it wasnt for all the lazy wasters claiming dole for prolonged periods because they cant be arsed getting jobs

I know but there is always going to be people like that. No one has the right to say that social welfare should be cut when they are sittin pretty on there arses. I have a permanent job thank god but if i were in the situation that I needed to claim welfare I would not appreciate stupid comments from ignorant people that only give a s**t about themselves and their pockets. People must have been dragged up. F all people seem to have any sort of conscience these days

emma27

bobbiw wrote: »

Christmas Bonus was joke, why give benefits to someone who is a failure.

This is the problem with the system, I remember some little tramp coming to try and rent my property, she had a kid and the goverment were going to pay for her to live in a four bedroom house.

to be honest 30 years ago she would have had her kid put up for adoption and she would be working in a convent laundry.

Still they call it progress.

The hard working people of Ireland that have been hit with hard times deserve to be helped and receive as much support as possible to get back to wor

the lazy scumbag wasters who have not worked in years should have no benefits for them or their children, their children need to suffer because of poverty and understand that they need to work.

You are one sick f**ker. you have a big problem and should go see about getting yourself sorted if thats the way you think. Id be ashamed to know you. You must have been dragged up judging on that kind of crap you have come out with. twisted

old boy

emma27 wrote: »

You are one sick f**ker. you have a big problem and should go see about getting yourself sorted if thats the way you think. Id be ashamed to know you. You must have been dragged up judging on that kind of crap you have come out with. twisted

bobbiw
you sound like an old priest, times change, have you not thought that it is possible that she is seperated, widowed etc, who are you to cast judgement.

O'Coonassa

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Just ask your self why are so many large countries bailing out banks and supporting them if they didn't need to. This is not unique to Ireland.

Indeed, I thought that this was happening because the banksters have insinuated themselves into Government as this man points out quite admirably.

You're quite right that there is an imbalance in the public finances between spending and tax reciepts but surely if we're in this deficit and borrowing even more that cannot be a good thing.

Spud83

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Indeed, I thought that this was happening because the banksters have insinuated themselves into Government as this man points out quite admirably.

You're quite right that there is an imbalance in the public finances between spending and tax reciepts but surely if we're in this deficit and borrowing even more that cannot be a good thing.

Sorry but I'm not gonna look through some ten minute YouTube movie. I still wouldn't pay attention to it until I actually found who your man is and which economy is speaking of. Maybe tomorrow.

No borrowing more is not a good thing. However I belive its better than doing nothing and better than nationalising the banks. Borrowing for both would be really bad, even though I believe we will still need to borrow to pay the public finances this year and for the foreseeable years. This borrowing we have to get under control.

Scofflaw

aare wrote: »

bobbiw wrote:

Christmas Bonus was joke, why give benefits to someone who is a failure.

This is the problem with the system, I remember some little tramp coming to try and rent my property, she had a kid and the goverment were going to pay for her to live in a four bedroom house.

to be honest 30 years ago she would have had her kid put up for adoption and she would be working in a convent laundry.

Still they call it progress.

The hard working people of Ireland that have been hit with hard times deserve to be helped and receive as much support as possible to get back to work.

the lazy scumbag wasters who have not worked in years should have no benefits for them or their children, their children need to suffer because of poverty and understand that they need to work.

I very much doubt if your view are representative...

They are representative of a certain section of society, and as expressed here they are, while forcefully put, acceptable within the limits of debate. Some may find them repugnant or even insulting, but they are not aimed at any specific poster here, unlike some of the other sniping on this thread.

moderately,
Scofflaw

lmimmfn

they should have cut the dole 5-10%, while it sounds harsh and i know how crappy it is being on the dole the cost of living has decreased and we have to prepare for a hell of a lot more people on the dole, a few years of this recession and current social welfare levels will not in any way be possible or sustainable.

Complaining about losing the 'christmas bonus' on the dole is an absolute disgrace, the dole is ment to give you some form of life, celebrating christmas would be the least of someones worries if theyre struggling.

francish

Richard Dower wrote: »

OMG! :mad: ...and they are cutting rent suppliment, i can't belive this!!!!!

:mad:

To be quite frank - **** them. Why should those who are sitting on their arse not take a cut. I was amazed at the coverage that this got on RTE. Their headline was simply "Christmas bonus to go" - I had no idea that such a thing existed, suggested we were all on it. Delation is at 4%, cutting the "Christmas bonus" equated to only a 2% cut. Given that we are all going back to a standard of living of 4 years ago, why was there not a 20% cut in social welfare payments - we can no longer afford to pay the current level of benefits.

Rents are falling - get real, of course rent supplement should be cut.

smokingman

I haven't bothered read this thread as I want to get into the mindset of those who think this is terrible so far in advance of the xmas holiday.

The world and this island is a great place if you get off your arse and try to make your life better....it ain't easy....it never is, but that's life, nothing is free, what you want, you have to fight for, what you need is not always what you get, your happiness is not dependent on money if you realise what's really important and **** does indeed happen, get over it, move on and make your life happier even if it means staying that extra second smelling a freshly cut lawn or staying back four bloody hours in unpaid overtime every night and going home knowing that the work you just did was bloody good even though you'll want, but never expect praise from your boss 'cause life don't work that way....you're still bloody proud of your work though.

ocluggg

Anyone who was been on the dole during the good times should have it cut.

midletonmagpie

midletonmagpie wrote: »

Oh, by the way, murphy83, I use a laptop with a fully charged battery and my internet connection is wireless Meteor To Go for e20 monthly access through normal top-up bought in the shops.

Regarding your campaing to get the christmas bonus back sureely if you gave up your internet you would have 240 euro extra a year. While I'm not advocating that you should be denied access to the internet surely it is a luxury which you should only indulge in when you can easily afford it. If the Christmas bonus means that much to you simply cutting corners here and there will help you to save up far more thant 204 euro a year.

While some of the posters on here are advocating unacceptable actions toward people claiming long term dole many of them have a point. If I want something such as a DVD or CD I will save up over time to buy it if I can't afford it there and then. Much like Christmas if you can't afford it now than save up.

As a student who gets nothing from the government I feel that people campaigining for the reinstatement of the bonus should cop on and perhaps channel their efforts into something productive. Why should every other section of society have to cut back and not social welfare claiments?

*I'm not criticising anyone on the dole well apart from those abusing the system, I know how difficult it is to survive in the current climate and chances are many more of us will soon unfortunatly be claiming.

**Befor I'm accused of being a hypocrite for having the internet, I liberate my from neighbours.

suzyball

NTLsucks wrote: »

what the hell...no xmas bonus!! that is not gonna go down well at all, hitting the poorest section of soceity again as usual. and rent allowance gone down too, there's goes my one night out a week if i have to spend more money on rent. this budget is a ****ing joke.

Are you having a laugh?!!!....I hope so. I work full time earn absolutely ****e wages working in the Public Sector (500 before tax and 410 after tax now per week) (im sure your all booing me now as other threads here would have us all believe the recession is the public sectors fault!). I pay a mortgage on my own and might get out for a drink once a month if im lucky and you are on the dole (u possibly lost your job and if so im sorry for that) and crying about your rent allowance, christmas bonus and one night out a week, god to have one night out a week would be heaven!. ...Here sure you can have my job im only earning 60 euro more per week than if i got the dole and mortgage relief why should i bother going to work?......catch yourself on there mate!!!!!!!

aare

francish wrote: »

Rents are falling - get real, of course rent supplement should be cut.

One small problem...

Rent supplements were never quite sufficient to meet the market prices, and plenty of landlords will not take them at all...

So that, not only will the maximums be cut below the price of rented property in several areas and categories of claimant, but also, existing rent supplements are being cut by 8% in the hope that people (many of whom were lucky to find anywhere at all, even at the previous rates) will be able to negotiate rents down.

These cuts will make real people, really homeless...which is insane at a time like this.

It would be better to have waited until the government had foreclosed on the bad debts of a few property developers and had sufficient housing to offer, before trying to force people towards the RAS (which is frankly, the whole idea, which would be a stroke of genius, IF somebody had remembered that it works best if the horse goes in front of the cart).

midletonmagpie

WELL DONE! NO ABUSIVE OR FOUL LANGUAGE!!

Pity you couldn't reply like that in the first place, oh, by the way, I was working when I was twelve up to 6 years ago (15 years non stop) when I contracted a serious illness mate. If you do end up on the dole as you claim, will what you have said and how you described it apply to yourself?

Who knows, by then this f*****g campaign as you put it might have reinstated the Christmas Bonus and you'll be benefitting from it then.

midletonmagpie

midletonmagpie wrote: »

WELL DONE! NO ABUSIVE OR FOUL LANGUAGE!!

Pity you couldn't reply like that in the first place, oh, by the way, I was working when I was twelve up to 6 years ago (15 years non stop) when I contracted a serious illness mate. If you do end up on the dole as you claim, will what you have said and how you described it apply to yourself?

Who knows, by then this f*****g campaign as you put it might have reinstated the Christmas Bonus and you'll be benefitting from it then.

Out of curiousity, who exactty is that post aimed at?

Scofflaw

midletonmagpie wrote: »

WELL DONE! NO ABUSIVE OR FOUL LANGUAGE!!

Pity you couldn't reply like that in the first place, oh, by the way, I was working when I was twelve up to 6 years ago (15 years non stop) when I contracted a serious illness mate. If you do end up on the dole as you claim, will what you have said and how you described it apply to yourself?

Who knows, by then this f*****g campaign as you put it might have reinstated the Christmas Bonus and you'll be benefitting from it then.

midletonmagpie, this is your last warning. As far as I can see you're now locked into what you see as a personal fight - and that's not acceptable.

moderately,
Scofflaw

KittyeeTrix

bobbiw wrote: »

to be honest 30 years ago she would have had her kid put up for adoption and she would be working in a convent laundry.

Still they call it progress.

To say I am shocked would be an understatement!!!!!!
My mother was one of those kids left to rot in an industrial school for almost 20 years because she was unfortunate to be born in an era in Ireland where people like you were the norm rather than the exception.

She spent it starving, being mentally and sexually abused whilst never being educated>>>>>>>>>.
As soon as she was 10 she was then made to work in those s**t holes they had the audacity to call "convent" laundries
She was beaten almost every day of her miserable life and you think that this is the way things should become again...


If you had any decency or cop on you would withdraw that remark!!!! and maybe spend a few poxy minutes thinking before making flippant remarks with no ounce of regard for the nightmare that was Ireland in the 1950's for unmarried women and their children:mad:

My god, what kind of world do we live in?

I would gladly live in a cardboard box on the side of the bloody road before I would allow that treatment of children in my society again and I hope to god most other people on this thread would too!!!!!!!!!!!

If you had spoken about the "nazi concentration camps" like this, there would be a bloody revolt here and rightly so.

Quartet

gcgirl wrote: »

Imaging earning anything from 40,000 to 50,000 a year to getting 205euro a week!! !

Ok take your weekly 205 * 52

And add ....

Medical Cards
Qualified Adult Payment
Qualified Child Payment(s)
Back to school clothing & footwear Payment
Child Beneft Payment
Rent Supplement
(0h not to forget Christmas Bonus payment!)

when you consider these payments are not taxed the Annual value of welfare payments recieved is more the I can bring home in a year!!!

Now the point is that Jobseekers Benefit (for those who have built up PRSI contribution) and Jobseekers Allowance (for all others) are supposed to provide means to provide for the basics and to provide an incentive to return to paid employment

Now if these payments and esp Jobseekers Allowance often exceed peoples wages why do any of the rest of the population bother our a*****? working

Architects and other professions earning 40 - 50,000 are taxed to the hilt. They have also spent many years qualifying for their professions often having to work through college and take out large loans to do so

So when after many years of hard slog they finally get a job (and that is not easy considering the competition from home and abroad) they loose over half their income in tax! to pay for lifestyles for the proportion of feckless who want to go on holidays and have christmas bonuses:mad:

We are in a situation where unemployment numbers are going to rise. The remaining poor suckers who are working are now attempting to pay their bills and mortgages and also paying for those on the dole.

You can only squeeze the pips so far. We have some of the highest rates of Social Welfare in Europe. It can not go on. The remaining Tax payers are paying for these payments - not some giant cookie jar in the sky.

Welfare rates will have to be cut so that others who become unemployed can recieve payments and the remaining workers have something to live on and make it worthwhile to work

So for ***** sake wise up - many workers face ruin with the recent increase in taxes and some are complaining of a lost Christmas bonus.
Go and get a grip....

aare

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I would gladly live in a cardboard box on the side of the bloody road before I would allow that treatment of children in my society again and I hope to god most other people on this thread would too!!!!!!!!!!!

I would certainly be there with you.

stepbar

Lets break it down.

An extra payment of 204 over 8 months (lets say for argument sake 32 weeks) = c6.38.

Right, if it causes so much hassle stick the 6 odd quid in a jar every week. Before long 204.30 will magically appear come Christmas. For god sake budget people!!!

KittyeeTrix

aare wrote: »

I would certainly be there with you.

Didn't know you felt that way aare:o

Only slagging.

But seriously,I don't mind anyone having opinions but I do get all p**sed off when they involve the idea of making innocent suffer, especially children.

There's no need for it!

gcgirl

Quartet wrote: »

Ok take your weekly 205 * 52

And add ....

Medical Cards
Qualified Adult Payment
Qualified Child Payment(s)
Back to school clothing & footwear Payment
Child Benift Payment
(0h not to forget Christmas Bonus payment!)

when you consider these payments are not taxed the Annual value of welfare payments recieved is more the I can bring home in a year!!!

Now the point is that Jobseekers Benefit (for those who have built up PRSI contribution) and Jobseekers Allowance (for all others) are supposed to provide means to provide for the basics and to provide an incentive to return to paid employment

Now if these payments and esp Jobseekers Allowance often exceed peoples wages why do any of the rest of the population use bother our a*****? working

Architects and other professions earning 40 - 50,000 are taxed to the hilt. They have also spent many years qualifying for their professions often having to work through college and take out large loans to do so

So when after many years of hard slog they finally get a job (and that is not easy considering the competition from home and abroad) they loose over half their income in tax! to pay for lifestyles for the proportion of feckless who want to go on holidays and have christmas bonuses:mad:

We are in a situation where unemployment numbers are going to rise. The remaining poor suckers who are working are now attempting to pay their bills and mortgages and also paying for those on the dole.

You can only squeeze the pips so far. We have some of the highest rates of Social Welfare in Europe. It can not go on. The remaining Tax payers are paying for these payments - not some giant cookie jar in the sky.

Welfare rates will have to be cut so that others who become unemployed can recieve payments and the remaining workers have something to live on and make it worthwhile to work

So for ***** sake wise up - many workers face ruin with the recent increase in taxes and some are complaining of a lost Christmas bonus.
Go and get a grip....

An 80 yr old woman will only get her medical card along with her pension!

aare

Quartet wrote: »

You can only squeeze the pips so far. We have some of the highest rates of Social Welfare in Europe. It can not go on. The remaining Tax payers are paying for these payments - not some giant cookie jar in the sky.

Welfare rates will have to be cut so that others who become unemployed can recieve payments and the remaining workers have something to live on and make it worthwhile to work

So for ***** sake wise up - many workers face ruin with the recent increase in taxes and some are complaining of a lost Christmas bonus.
Go and get a grip....

You are absolutely right...except in that those very high social welfare rates are what it takes to subsist with our high prices...

I am not disputing others are taking a terrible hit, nor that there are people living on a minimum wage that may be even less than they could get on SW...

...but you can, indeed, "only squeeze the pips so far" and that will not make it possible for welfare recipients to live on less than it costs to live. You can't make that balance, however hard you try...

...on the other hand, I know many workers, realistically, face ruin (as well as unemployment) because of tax increases...

This is a terrible situation we are ALL in and I don't think it solves anything to turn on each other and demand that any social group, barring our own, should be "punished" somehow.

What is needed now are solutions that reduce prices, increase private spending and stimulate the economy...

Not each striving to drive another into impossible situations and destitution...

As I said earlier in the thread, removing the Christmas benefit was a shrewd move for a number of reasons, and, though it often serves a greater purpose than "Christmas Cheer" in midwinter for the elderly and disabled, by helping to cover high winter fuels bills, I doubt if anyone will die for the want of it, nor even suffer unduly...

The gasp in the Dail as it was announced was just a knee jerk reaction.

I am not even against clearly defined, and stated temporary, cuts in weekly welfare rates. It seems a bit unfair otherwise with vast amounts of money being slashed off ordinary workers take home pay...

But I am against the unequal, arbitrary "stealth cuts" being made through the rent supplement system while claiming welfare rates are, so far, untouched...and I am dead against placing teens at risk by denying them sufficient means to survive without parental support at a time when they, most definately, will NOT just be able to "GET A JOB" at will.

aare

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Didn't know you felt that way aare:o

Only slagging.

But seriously,I don't mind anyone having opinions but I do get all p**sed off when they involve the idea of making innocent suffer, especially children.

There's no need for it!

To nearly repeat myself, two posts on the trot...too many people are jumping up and down demanding that somebody, anybody be *punished* as long as it is not them...and then gloating whenever they think someone will suffer...and, apparently, the more vulnerable the better...

What will get us all through this is unity and compassion...it's all we have to draw the sting...

Sometime last morning it got to the stage where I felt actually THANKFUL that I will be taking quite a hit...because as someone with no-one else to be responsible for, I don't think I could live with myself looking at what other people are facing...

...but all this gloating and vitriol that flies around just makes it far worse than it needs to be...for everyone...