Now it's over, where did they go wrong and right?

Xavi6

Fromvert wrote: »

ok, i would be in favour of some sort of college fees being introduced. Am a student now and will be for the next two years.

Xavi, how did the points system discriminate against you? The way I see it, study, get the points you need and get in your chosen course.

I've posted my circumstances here to avoid going OT again.

FrankGrimes

Before this budget 38% of earners paid no income tax (though some of those paid 1% income tax levy). After this budget those that earn over €15k but under the income tax threshold will now pay 2% income tax levy and no other income tax.

I think most medium to high earners are prepared to pay their fair share of income tax (indeed 50% of all income tax is paid by the top 6% of earners), but I just don't see why the burden should not be spread a bit more evenly so that those at the lower end pay just a little bit more. Fully agree with keeping people learning below €15k out of the tax base, but I really thought they needed to broaden the tax base in this budget and I think they have taken the easy approach here to avoid the political trouble this would cause for them.

An upper middle class family with 2 kids and with one earner in a senior managerial position earning around €80k have been particularly harshly hit and the relatively light impact on low earners will make that couple feel pretty hard done by.

eoinbn

A VAT cut would of done nothing. The 2.5% cut in britain has been viewed as an error that has done nothing but reduce the tax take. People would still of gone north, especially when you consider that many foods are taxed at a lower rate, or even at 0% for core foods.

hellboy99

I'll tell you where they went wrong, letting this clown of a minister come up with another farce of a budget :mad:

A few weeks back he went on TV saying that his previous increase on VAT was a mistake, and now today he does not lower VAT which in my opinion is badly needed to stimulate the economy and get people back here spending.

I'm sick of this government and it's about time a general election was called for.

Het-Field

No measures on competitiveness, nothing to deal with the unemployment crisis (save for half assed back to education schemes, which will have no benefit, if the crisis continues to excacerbate).

VAT needed to be cut. If it couldnt then FF have damed itself to a period of cross border shopping, and removal of revenue. Is it an oversight, or was it a conscious decision.

No cuts in quangos, and more committes will be set up to deal with the proposed ajustments.

The middle income earners got screwed again.

Attempts to regain a stranglehold on the economy through taxation.

I think an election is inevitable. Cowen and Lenihan are the worst in the business.

AntiRip

hellboy99 wrote: »

I'll tell you where they went wrong, letting this clown of a minister come up with another farce of a budget :mad:

A few weeks back he went on TV saying that his previous increase on VAT was a mistake, and now today he does not lower VAT which in my opinion is badly needed to stimulate the economy and get people back here spending.

I'm sick of this government and it's about time a general election was called for.

Totally agree with you here. Take money out of people's pockets and no change to VAT to stimulate the economy! It was like 6 months ago, total anti-climax..

shandsaker1982

Im not a massive greeny by any means but what got to me...besides the things that were needed was the 5c on diesel and petrol wasnt touched. i know petrol is more expensive but diesel is more eco friendly and after just buying a diesel car in IRELAND (NOT THE NORTH TO SUPPORT IRISH WORK) it feels like a big kick in the you know whats. Why bother if eventually you dont gain! I feel for the people who have no jobs and i suppose there are bigger issues. This finance bloke doesnt know his ass from his elbow! :mad:

super_furry

As far as I can see, a single person on €45,000 a year will only be €650 a year worse off - or €12.50 a week. I expected a much more savage cut and think that harder measure were and still are, needed.

rose_2

i think the big question of the day is ...when can we replace these muppets??although really, who else will be able to do it right??!:mad:

mike65

eoinbn wrote: »

A VAT cut would of done nothing. The 2.5% cut in britain has been viewed as an error that has done nothing but reduce the tax take. People would still of gone north, especially when you consider that many foods are taxed at a lower rate, or even at 0% for core foods.

Food is zero rated in both jurastictions.

knipex

super_furry wrote: »

As far as I can see, a single person on €45,000 a year will only be €650 a year worse off - or €12.50 a week. I expected a much more savage cut and think that harder measure were and still are, needed.

No 1% Income levy increase or €450 per year.

2% Health levy or €900 per year.

Total €1350 or €112.50 a month or €25.96 a week

johnnyskeleton

Bit of a mixed message - on the one hand stop saving (increased dirt) and go out and spend on borrowed money (bank recap) but at the same time, pay higher taxes to support unsustainable spending.

It's kinda hard to say where they have gone wrong in this budget, it's just the culimination of all the bad decisions made in the last 10 years (in particular the bank guarantee) and a complete failure to acknowledge how the country is going to survive the next few years.

themadchef

Im a PAYE worker and I have 4 kids, the oldest doesnt turn five til the end of this month.

One word.. OUCH

super_furry

knipex wrote: »

No 1% Income levy increase or €450 per year.

2% Health levy or €900 per year.

Total €1350 or €112.50 a month or €25.96 a week

Ah thanks. Thought I was missing something with the health levy alright.

jimmmy

the govt missed the opportunity of cutting public sector pay back to realistic, sustainable levels

Number one

This is going to encourage people (who don't necessarily have to) to emigrate, further damaging the economy. Especially skilled people that are needed to maintain this nation.

The standard of living on this country is sh1t enough already. Now they're wiping their ar5es with us.

RonMexico

Cut the dole and clamp down on fraud (of all kinds)

Cut VAT

Implement work schemes for long term dole spongers.

heno55

shandsaker1982 wrote: »

Im not a massive greeny by any means but what got to me...besides the things that were needed was the 5c on diesel and petrol wasnt touched. i know petrol is more expensive but diesel is more eco friendly and after just buying a diesel car in IRELAND (NOT THE NORTH TO SUPPORT IRISH WORK) it feels like a big kick in the you know whats. Why bother if eventually you dont gain! I feel for the people who have no jobs and i suppose there are bigger issues. This finance bloke doesnt know his ass from his elbow! :mad:

yeah he could easily have put up to 30 cents on the diesel,as a trucker i was paying 145c last year and the country didnt grind to a halt so there was scope for more of an increase but he bottled it

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

the govt missed the opportunity of cutting public sector pay back to realistic, sustainable levels

The early retirement package could cause a stampede of the most experienced PS workers.

From the few details given in the speech, the idea seems to be that those aged 50+ can either leave on half pay or be taxed and levied 60% on the other half of their income while at the same time, taking on the work of their departed colleagues and look forward to no prospect of promotion for their extra responsibility.

There's were also veiled hints that any remaining staff will would be expected to move round the country as needed (to fill decentralised offices, no doubt).

That should be enough to motivate people to leave.

It will get PS pay bill down (a little bit, taking account of the loss of the tax, PRSI and levies) and open up lots of outsourcing and contracting opportunities.

Bulmers

FrankGrimes wrote: »

An upper middle class family with 2 kids and with one earner in a senior managerial position earning around €80k have been particularly harshly hit and the relatively light impact on low earners will make that couple feel pretty hard done by.

one of them,down 3.5k, wife down 1.8k..he said it was the higher earners he was going to target, that's what he done..

not complaining too much though, glad to have a job for now to be honest and i just hope they have done all they really need to start turning things around..

if i hear in 2/3 months time there is another shortfall, they have to go and they should go quietly and not have to be asked..

gandalf

Complete and utter cop out as to be expected from these fudgers.

Why should I be expected to pay an additional 2% for a Health Service that is totally overpopulated with Administration staff. Sort out the wastage and cost and then if you need the money tax people. The economy is totally depressed, I know I am trying to sell in this environment and whats this crowds answer, take a substaintial amount of money out of the pockets of those that are needed to help get the economy going.

FF are not able do not have the inclination or the will to make unpopular decisions. They are a party run by spindoctors and image consultants who have lost the plot totally. We the taxpayers are paying a heavy price for the short comings of these bluffers. Those that voted them in should really hang their heads in shame.

theniall

It's so evil cutting education. That should be the one thing that's untouchable

theniall

RonMexico wrote: »

Cut the dole and clamp down on fraud (of all kinds)

Cut VAT

Implement work schemes for long term dole spongers.

+1

BroomBurner

It's probably been mentioned before, but the biggest mistake they made was to once again not feel any pain themselves. Reducing expenses by 10% is useless.

They should have introduced receipted expenses (though we all know why the opposition aren't shouting for this), capped their own salaries at €175,000 (including Cowen) and remove that €45,000 bonus the independents get (which was only brought in by Bertie, so they can easily take it away).

Lenihan going on about how we all must suffer blah blah blah We won't see one single TD suffer from this budget. That is where they went wrong.

handsomecake

themadchef wrote: »

Im a PAYE worker and I have 4 kids, the oldest doesnt turn five til the end of this month.

One word.. OUCH

dont have kids if you cant afford them.
use contraception.i would want to be on 140k a year( combined with spouse) before i would consider having a child.

sceptre

handsomecake wrote: »

dont have kids if you cant afford them.
use contraception.i would want to be on 140k a year( combined with spouse) before i would consider having a child.

If that was everyone's rationale, we'd have a population of 5,000 in 80 years, which wouldn't be enough to sustain an economy, which would mean no-one earning that money and a population in 150 years of zero. Then there's no-one to sell the country to Disneyland.

No, find something else to rabbit on about. It's not adding to this discussion at all.

nesf

Overall, tax hikes were the wrong option. We need to cut spending, especially on payroll costs.

I'm sympathetic to Richard Bruton's emphasis on the need for reform of spending.

AntiRip

heno55 wrote: »

yeah he could easily have put up to 30 cents on the diesel,as a trucker i was paying 145c last year and the country didnt grind to a halt so there was scope for more of an increase but he bottled it

Sorry but I don't agree with this at all. I drive damn long distances to stay in work (from Kerry to Cork actually) everyday. I'm on a modest wage (<30000k) and suffering just like the rest of ye and diesel costs do take up a fare share of my wages (13% of them) so I'm glad it didn't go up more tbh

Hangsangwich

€90 billion on dodgy loans and mortgages. That works out at about €20,000 per man, woman and child. And how much of this debt will ever be recovered? We can be sure that the bankers will be sloshing back the champagne well into the night. Now, they have a license to hand over their worst, riskiest loans to the Government. Do we think these loans consist merely of the mortgages of people who have fallen behind on a couple of payments. Not at all. The banks will tighten their grip on any of their debtors with a decent chance of repayments. We will discover that these loans are indeed 'toxic', and will only ever recoop a small fraction of the €90 billion. this was such a nice carte blanche to the bankers. These people made some of the stupidest risky decisions, and they are getting away scott-free.
By rewarding such greed and incompetence, we have not tackled the problem of Irish banking. Aswell as crippling the Irish people with this debt, it has set a dangerous precedent for future bank bailouts. HAVE THE BANKERS LEARNT A LESSON? You betcha! "go for the risky option, if it works out, big commisions and bonuses, if not we'll get another bailout. Nothing to lose."
This Government makes me sick. I'm ashamed to be Irish.

O'Coonassa

RonMexico wrote: »

Cut the dole and clamp down on fraud (of all kinds)

Cut VAT

Implement work schemes for long term dole spongers.

If they could provide enough jobs for those who are actually looking for them that'd be a start. We can worry about the layabouts when we're short of workers.