Budget 2009 - Is it clear that we need new government?

Aidric

It's a shambles that they haven't tackled the numbers employed in the public service.

ionix5891

T-K-O wrote: »

Cut the spending the public sector is a JOKE. 20% need to be removed.

They took the credit for the boom now they can take the criticism. Is anyone seriously happy with Lenihan. The guy is incompetent of fulfilling his job title.

i agree they should have trimmed alot of far from the public sector (starting with that fatso harney) and cut the dole by at least 20% or give everyone who was on it for longer than a year few months to get a job or be left behind

but yea of course ill just have to swallow my tongue next time i have to handover to the taxman my hard earned money and bendover more

jebus even in they hayday of communist USSR they didnt pay people money for sitting at home, what have we become

all jokes aside this budget didnt go far enough, where these 99% tax on bankers salaries? wheres the vat reductions to bring trade back from north? wheres the heavier punishing taxes on people with more than one home or overseas properties?

AckwelFoley

buckfasterer wrote: »

So what are the first steps to actually getting this government out?

A general election.

I think the next one will be due in 2 years

buckfasterer

snyper wrote: »

A general election.

I think the next one will be due in 2 years

But surely 2 years is too long....current trends means that will be 4 more budgets for these clowns to completly drain the country dry. Now im by no means a FG suporter, nor anyone for that matter. I just want someone else to have the chance to save the economy as clearly FF are not doing this. How would an emergency general election ever come about?

General Strife

buckfasterer wrote: »

But surely 2 years is too long....current trends means that will be 4 more budgets for these clowns to completly drain the country dry. Now im by no means a FG suporter, nor anyone for that matter. I just want someone else to have the chance to save the economy as clearly FF are not doing this. How would an emergency general election ever come about?

Nice and simple....

Get the Greens out. :mad:

ionix5891

buckfasterer wrote: »

But surely 2 years is too long....current trends means that will be 4 more budgets for these clowns to completly drain the country dry. Now im by no means a FG suporter, nor anyone for that matter. I just want someone else to have the chance to save the economy as clearly FF are not doing this. How would an emergency general election ever come about?

the country is already drained dry

were living of loans for last while....

just remember dont byte the hand that feeds ya come next Lisbon treaty..

hellboy99

ionix5891 wrote: »

come next Lisbon treaty..

That's not going to help us :rolleyes:

ionix5891

hellboy99 wrote: »

That's not going to help us :rolleyes:

EU is already helping us ...

our low corpo tax and euro membership are the only remaining pluses left going for the economy, take these away and boom

T-K-O

snyper wrote: »

A general election.

I think the next one will be due in 2 years

I fear that will be to late...

luckat

suitseir wrote: »

They created the mess, they can now stay and sort it.

Isn't that a bit like saying "he burgled my house, let him now stay and sort it"?

jmayo

Snowaddict wrote: »

Yes, every 30 years broadly speaking, since the 1950's, Ireland has experienced net outward migration for several years to a sustained period of contraction.

You state that I vindicate FF in my posts, yet you deride them completely, so what's your point.

I'm merely pointing out that it's so easy to point the finger of blame, it's so easy to say ''get rid of them'', yet what alternatives are we faced with?

Given the performances of the opposition today along with their political policies, absolutely none!

Also, please don't seriously suggest that Eddie Hoobs was making accurate forecasts. Anyone can persistently state that a recession is on the cards. David McWilliams suggested that a decline was on the cards certainly, but largely due to consumer overspending, as highlighted in all of his documenataries.

Did the government go out and force people to spend instead of keeping their income in a deposit account? No they didn't so that argument simply does not stand.

Yes I deride them because for long enopugh they reprsent the worse in the Irish condition. Their policies or lack of have led us to where we are today.
In 2001 we had a great economy, even though bertie had slowly being letting public sector grow since 1997.
Then from 2002 on we became less competitive.
Creating non sustianable jobs in construction and retail based on cheap credit availability became order of the day.
Even worse the level of public sector spending and wastage grew exponentially with absolutely no responsibility being taken by anybody both at high level in public sector and private sector cosy cartels existing in both.
Now we pay for all that.

I notice you take a swipe at Eddie Hobbs and David McWilliams, couldn't you find anything on Morgan Kelly ?

All your arguments read as typical ff speak.
It is either a Global problem, Historically Cyclical Downturn (new one on me) or the Irish people are all at fault for borrowing and spending.

Yes the Irish people as a whole have a lot to answer for, a lot went round like headless chickens blowing money they didn't ever have and as a nation we need to grow up.
Even worse a lot of people voted back in a shower of unethical neer do wells, who border on corrupt, but now it really shows they are a complete inept, pathetic shower of gobdaws.
Perhaps you might say FG and Labour are inept, but it will take a lot to surpass the current encumbents who are all time champions in that league.

I note nowhere that you really come out and blame the government, particualrly the ff party, and how they steered the country for the last 7 odd years.
No one is ever to blame in ff it would seem :rolleyes:

storker

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

... & Bertie saw it coming and bailed out just before it wall went bad...

Yeah, left it for someone else to clean up. A pity he didn't use his foresight to to actually do anything about the problems before they got so bad. What a leader...

Stork

storker

bill_ashmount wrote: »

It's the first time she has impressed me, she's really stood up to the mark. Very disappointed in Richard Bruton, seemed to get stage fright, normally a very good speaker but seemed to bottle it.

For my money all of them in the Dail seem to speak like they're bottling it - I mean, doesn't anyone have a sufficient grasp of their brief or feel strongly enough about their subject to actually speak without reading from notes? From the way they peer at the paper while speaking you'd think the notes were single line spaces font size 8 with no whitespace.

You see much more credible performances in the House of Commons.

Stork

dimejinky99

Probably belongs in conspiracy theories thread but i think FF are intentionally trying to lose the next election so that, over the coming years, whoever does get in, has to deal with the public rancour, because as we're seeing with Obama in the states, people are already losing it with him and he didn't invent the problem, he just inherited it!! and Irish people are exactly like that!!

Cowen was minister for finance during the 'good' years so called, and he literally got us to this point..and now he's Taoiseach?? it's insanity

They'll let FG win the next election, after a year or so the population will be majorly hacked off as it is gonna get worse, and then FF will have a resurgance of popularity and new eceonomy saving ideas.

There's no rhyme or reason for a lot of these measures today.

They need to go and they'll go soon, leaving the other crowd to handle it. I'd bet on it.

storker

Snowaddict wrote: »

It's all very fine to say 'get rid of them' or 'they should go', but who on earth are you going to put in their place? A bunch of on the fence individuals who don't have a clue how to channel a path of success!

That's not the point,even though I wonder at that myself. The point is that FF should be punished for creating this mess in the first place, and as long as they're left in power, they're not being punished, they're being rewarded. Otherwise where is the disincentive for a governement to run the economy in such a cavalier manner again? As long as you're left in office, who cares? Bah.

Frankly, even if a new government did exactly the same, it would be worth making the switch so that FF got the caning they so richly deserve at the polls. In any case, the "nobody else would do any better" line is a cop-out. It's still worth trying. In any case, I would always give some benefit of the doubt to the party that didn't mess up the tax system ,that didn't put its chums ahead of the country, that didn't make a hames of the boom and that didn't ignore all the warnings it was given - over the party that actually did.

Stork

storker

snyper wrote: »

I like how you blame FF for the global crisis. You are not alone, most people do.

What FF can be held accountable for is relying too much on the returns from taxes generated through the construction and then giving tax cuts to the masses by widening the tax bands to take so many out of the income tax net.

But we didnt complain then did we?

I did, and so did a lot of others - you're a bit careless with that "we".

Stork

storker

Kerly wrote: »

For gods sake please dont lump the Lisbon treaty in with support for FF.

Agreed. I'll be voting for Lison even though FF will be encouraging me to do so. I voted against it last time (first time voting against an EU referendum) but FF have brought me back on track by giving me such a stark reminder that the more power we transfer away from those brain-damaged lackwits in Leinster House, the better off we'll all be.

Stork

O'Coonassa

To bail out the failed fractional reserve banking system with it's unreserved greed and stupidity they have gone on the rob without any hint of shame.

Fingers crossed if all goes well their chums at the banks can now start lending us what was once our own money at interest! What is more when we undertake to be indebted to the banks in this way they can magically create more currency from the debt and thereby lower the value of whatever currency we have in our savings or in our pockets.

Anybody fooling themselves that voting for the other shower will make a blind bit of difference needs to catch hold of themselves. The whole political class of Ireland is riddled with cronyism, dishonesty and contempt for the common man since the Normans landed. Personally at this stage I would not be offended to see them swinging from lamposts.

storker

buckfasterer wrote: »

So what are the first steps to actually getting this government out?

Find a guillotine for sale on e-Bay...

Stork

joeystrider

Snowaddict wrote: »

The removal of FF from power would give a rather high chance of a total collapse in the Irish economy, given that neither Labour or FG, despite each holding party political conferences, have not made clear any framework for economic recovery in any respect, instead outlining outlandish and fanciful plans that simply will not work.

The problem is that, to keep them in power, we are telling fianna fail that how they have acted is ok. This allows for greater complacency. They need only to stay in power.

FG or Labour in power would need to use the time to establish themselves for future years and to show themselves as a formidible force against FF. They would then work with greater effort.

And in any case the country is in need of change. It has grown stale and stagnant, with a government who has too many "friends".

sdanseo

buckfasterer wrote: »

So what are the first steps to actually getting this government out?

Three ways.

1. Backbenchers revolt and vote for a motion of no confidence against the government in the dáíl.
2. Public pressure in the extreme on the governement insitu leads them to resign.
3. All-out rebellion - which is starting to grow in its appeal :rolleyes:

joeystrider

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Three ways.

1. Backbenchers revolt and vote for a motion of no confidence against the government in the dáíl.
2. Public pressure in the extreme on the governement insitu leads them to resign.
3. All-out rebellion - which is starting to grow in its appeal :rolleyes:

I much enjoy the idea of rebellion!

Brooke01

Brian Lenihan is the biggest jackass I have ever seen....anyone disagree with me??? Did the they Fianna Fail party taking a pay cut??? There all idiots but Brian Lenihan takes the biscuit.

Caryatnid

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Do ye think is time fianna fail went?

Yes:mad:

ccguydub

In a word, yes

The two big banks have made BILLIONS in profits in the last few years and have we ever seen a cent? NO. And now they have the begging cup out and we're supposed to foot the bill? Yeah that sounds like a "fairer" budget, doesn't it?

Hugh_C

Trust?



Dignity?



Integrity?



Intelligence?

The country has been awash with money for the last 15 years ... we're gone fat now, we're gone lazy, we're gone pompous and we think we're special.

Liam Ryan, Managing Director, BMS Ireland, 2007

Nothingbetter2d

with all the builders now on the dole --- why cant the government use these people to finish off the capital programs at a much reduced cost... offer unemployed builders a boosted dole (€408 per week instead of €204) in exchange for working on contracts to complete our infrastructure and get us back on track for foreign investment.

a work for your dole incentive... most people on the dole dont want to be there... at least if they are working on capital projects they get a sense of worth rather than feel depressed cos they see no light due to it being blocked out by mounting bills.

surely this would be considerably cheaper than privately tendering contracts.

storker

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

with all the builders now on the dole --- why cant the government use these people to finish off the capital programs at a much reduced cost... offer unemployed builders a boosted dole (€408 per week instead of €204) in exchange for working on contracts to complete our infrastructure and get us back on track for foreign investment.

a work for your dole incentive... most people on the dole dont want to be there... at least if they are working on capital projects they get a sense of worth rather than feel depressed cos they see no light due to it being blocked out by mounting bills.

surely this would be considerably cheaper than privately tendering contracts.

That kind of thinking would require imagination - something this goverment lacks to a frightening degree.

Stork

Nothingbetter2d

storker wrote: »

That kind of thinking would require imagination - something this goverment lacks to a frightening degree.

Stork

lol sad but true

spank_inferno

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

with all the builders now on the dole --- why cant the government use these people to finish off the capital programs at a much reduced cost... offer unemployed builders a boosted dole (€408 per week instead of €204) in exchange for working on contracts to complete our infrastructure and get us back on track for foreign investment.

a work for your dole incentive... most people on the dole dont want to be there... at least if they are working on capital projects they get a sense of worth rather than feel depressed cos they see no light due to it being blocked out by mounting bills.

surely this would be considerably cheaper than privately tendering contracts.

That is a terrific idea, however our government hasnt the competence to implement it.

Well, they could think its a good idea, but they would refer it to a panel of select cronies.... sorry I meant consultants who in a year's time will report thats its a good idea and bill the government 2million euro for doing so.

Taking a few months to digest the consultants report, the Gov will announce in November 2010 the creation of a quango.... sorry agency to oversee the employment and administration of a "government infrastructure labour force". This will have a staff of 400 new recruits and a budged of 1.2 billion euro.

After an exhaustative and expensive 12 months the Govermnet will be pleased to announce the director for the new agency known as G.I.L.F
Taoiseach Cowan says he's certain they have the right cronie.... sorry man for the job.

In February 2012 after the public service christmas break the new director of GILF will announce a drive to recruitment 1,200 unemployed construction workers to commence work on the mythical "metro north".

the €900,000 per year director will express surprise about the slow uptake until he realises the world has dragged itself from the recession and unemployment is down to 4% again.

2013, G.I.L.F still exists, no one can see why!