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college fees

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  • 07-04-2009 5:28pm
    #1
    Gaillimh1990
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭


    are they bak??


«134

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    #2
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    It seems... no.


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    #3
    li@mo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭li@mo


    registration fee has risen from €900 to €1500 per year as announced before christmas.


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    #4
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,867 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    No but they should be in the form of means testing.


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    #5
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    not touched on this budget


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    #6
    banquo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,487 ✭✭✭banquo


    He didn't mention them. Had he said 'We will not be introducing 3rd Level fees' I'd say that they're not coming back. But since he didn't mention them at all I'm not counting my chickens.


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    #7
    KittyeeTrix
    Registered Users Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    li@mo wrote: »
    registration fee has risen from €900 to €1500 per year as announced before christmas.

    Does this mean everyone has to pay the new registration fee irrespective of income or is it means tested?


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    #8
    Snowaddict
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Snowaddict


    Very surprised that third level fees were not introduced, was expecting them in this budget, particularly with reference to Batt O' Keeffe's comments in the past few weeks.

    If you are entitled to grants, then as far as I know the €1500 is covered, but if not, you have to pay full whack up front.


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    #9
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    fluffyorganic1 wrote: »
    Does this mean everyone has to pay the new registration fee irrespective of income or is it means tested?
    Everyone pays it as far as I know. It should be reduced significantly if fees are re-introduced.
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    No but they should be in the form of means testing.
    No they shouldn't.


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    fluffyorganic1 wrote: »
    Does this mean everyone has to pay the new registration fee irrespective of income or is it means tested?

    The fee is only if you don't qualify for the grant.


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    #11
    samsemtex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 935 ✭✭✭samsemtex


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    No but they should be in the form of means testing.

    Why? No fees is the best thing that ever happened this country.


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    #12
    Ron DMC
    Registered Users Posts: 5,297 ✭✭✭Ron DMC


    It'll be a disaster if they bring in fees now that they've cut job-seekers allowance in half.

    How are people supposed to afford to go and learn if they're charged through the nose for it. That's their intention by cutting the social welfare.


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    #13
    Léan
    Registered Users Posts: 996 ✭✭✭Léan


    li@mo wrote: »
    registration fee has risen from €900 to €1500 per year as announced before christmas.

    :confused:
    Most registration fees are already around that afaik? My one this year was around €1400.


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    #14
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,867 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    samsemtex wrote: »
    Why? No fees is the best thing that ever happened this country.

    To stop wasters taking courses they don't really want/need to do, and end up dropping a semester in. There are a lot of people who take a course because that's what their mates are doing (Arts in Maynooth from personal experience). It pushes up the points and rules out people who actually want to do the course.

    Doesn't have to a massive fee, but just something to make the wasters think twice when filling out their CAO.
    Ronny Mitchell wrote: »
    It'll be a disaster if they bring in fees now that they've cut job-seekers allowance in half.

    How are people supposed to afford to go and learn if they're charged through the nose for it. That's their intention by cutting the social welfare.

    Implement a loan system similar to that in the UK and Australia. You pay it back when you start earning a proper wage.


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    #15
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    K4t wrote: »
    Everyone pays it as far as I know. It should be reduced significantly if fees are re-introduced.

    if you get a grant you dnt pay registration fees and presumably they will be abolished if fees are introduced
    No they shouldn't.

    yes they should even if its only for the top 5% earners in the country that have to pay completely free 3rd level with the state the economy is in right now is stupid


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    #16
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    To stop wasters taking courses they don't really want/need to do, and end up dropping a semester in. There are a lot of people who take a course because that's what their mates are doing (Arts in Maynooth from personal experience). It pushes up the points and rules out people who actually want to do the course.

    Doesn't have to a massive fee, but just something to make the wasters think twice when filling out their CAO.



    Implement a loan system similar to that in the UK and Australia. You pay it back when you start earning a proper wage.

    Cant say I agree,

    The current system does deter wasters, if you start a course and don't like it you can drop out. The government don't pay for first year again though, you have to.


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    #17
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    if you get a grant you dnt pay registration fees and presumably they will be abolished if fees are introduced
    I won't hold my breath.
    PeakOutput wrote: »
    yes they should even if its only for the top 5% earners in the country that have to pay completely free 3rd level with the state the economy is in right now is stupid
    If fees were going to be re-introduced it should have been 10 years ago. It's not fair now to bring in third level fees when families are just about struggling to get by with income levies et al. You can not be serious!


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    #18
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Vegeta wrote: »
    Cant say I agree,

    The current system does deter wasters, if you start a course and don't like it you can drop out. The government don't pay for first year again though, you have to.

    it does not deter waster it deters the very bottom of the barrel

    it is not difficult to scrape by for 4 years getting cs(or d's if you know how to play the different compensation systems)

    fees deters in two ways. parents will be more likely to take an interest in the results of tiernan and labhaoise in orts in ucd if they are paying 4/5K a year for it

    and for people who are funding themselves they will have to think very carefully about what they want to do before committing financially to college

    i think at the very least any family earning less than 100K a year should not have to pay but means tested fees are definitely not a bad idea

    finally they wont affect anyone who has already started college or anyone who starts college in september so they are at least 18 months in the future


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    #19
    Isaac702
    Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭Isaac702


    A loan system would completely defeat the point of re-introducing collage fees however. Our *brilliant* government needs funds now not in 5+ years when graduates get a job that can pay back the loans.

    Our country needs to be stimulated by creating jobs and graduates to fill those positions. Taxing our way out of the recession is not a good idea. Collage Fees would just limit the availability of education which would hurt us in the long term.


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    #20
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    K4t wrote: »
    I won't hold my breath.

    If fees were going to be re-introduced it should have been 10 years ago. It's not fair now to bring in third level fees when families are just about struggling to get by with income levies et al. You can not be serious!

    what families are you refering to exactly?


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    #21
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    K4t wrote: »
    If fees were going to be re-introduced it should have been 10 years ago. It's not fair now to bring in third level fees when families are just about struggling to get by with income levies et al. You can not be serious!

    Free fees were only introduced in 1996


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    #22
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Fees will more then likely come in but doing so now would have been far to unpopular decision for them. Plus, I believe OKeffe has not finished his report on fees.

    Fees wont cut out wasters who do a course and drop out. Its nothing to do with "friends" as most people split up and do different things anyway. People do the course they *think* they are interested in and drop out when they find out its 1) very hard, or 2) crap. Course information, at least on IT Courses, is very sketchy. Iv been to the open days and the information can be vague. Plus, the registration fees are expensive - drop out, you wont get paid again.

    Entirely different topic but the grants situation in Ireland is appalling. Both applying for and actually waiting for it.

    Fine Gael seems to have the better plan for this whole debate.


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    #23
    MarlboroMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭MarlboroMan


    The top 5% of earners are being taxed an extra 4% on top of the already high income rate so I wouldn’t see how it would be fair on them if only their children had to pay fees.their parents spend their whole life getting to the position they have only to be brought back down...

    the victims of any ressesion are always the workingclass in my opinion, a registration fee €1500 is just another stress to the endless list around us......


    from rte.ie/money/budget2009

    16:21: The income levy thresholds have been lowered, with the 2% rate kicking in at €15,000, 4% at €75,000 and 6% at €175,000.
    16:21: The income levy rates announced in last October's Budget will be doubled to 2%, 4% and 6%.


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    #24
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    You're showing your age there K4T, 'free fees' were only introduced in the mid 1990s. There was a time when fees were the norm.

    Fees should be reintroduced, there are too many people who's parents can afford to send them to expensive grind schools and fund their college lifestyle. If your parents own additional properties outside of their family home then they can afford to send their kid to college, if they can't have both then they'll have to pick & choose.


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    #25
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    To stop wasters taking courses they don't really want/need to do, and end up dropping a semester in. There are a lot of people who take a course because that's what their mates are doing (Arts in Maynooth from personal experience). It pushes up the points and rules out people who actually want to do the course.

    I agree with you in a sense, it would encourage people to take their courses more seriously. Then again, that is going by the assumption that they'd be paying the fees themselves. Unfortunately, for a lot of them Mammy and Daddy would still be paying the fees, so I'm not sure if reintroducing fees would make them think twice anyway.

    I'd be concerned about the reintroduction of fees as from personal experience I think the government would be quite rigid in their means testing due to the current grant system. I didn't qualify for a grant in 1st or 2nd year even though my family are not well off, my dad is a retired brewery man, my mum is a full time mum and there are a few of us living in the house. Only this year did I qualify, and at that I only got the lowest grade allowance; 345 euro spread over the entire academic year (115 every three months). It's a joke of a system to be honest, so I wouldn't trust the government to be entirely equitable in their means testing of fees. They will target people that they said they wouldn't.


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    #26
    Predalien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 946 ✭✭✭Predalien


    They never intended to announce anything about fees in the budget today, it'll be done later this month by O'keefe himself


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    #27
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    MarlboroMan wrote: »

    the top 5% of earners are being taxed an extra 4% ontop of the already high income rate so i wouldnt see how it would be fair for on them. they spend their whole life getting to the position they have only to be brought back down to the same level of those who didnt make as much of an effort in life....
    .

    20K or there abouts over 4 years is not bringing the top 5% of earners down to anywhere near my/our level and i think you have success confused with effort they are not necessarily the same thing. i know people who have been very very lucky and will be set up for life and i know people who have worked their ass's off in jobs and are on mediocre wages

    either way you contribute what you can afford and they can afford it

    edited due to typo


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    #28
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,867 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Sully wrote: »

    Fees wont cut out wasters who do a course and drop out. Its nothing to do with "friends" as most people split up and do different things anyway. People do the course they *think* they are interested in and drop out when they find out its 1) very hard, or 2) crap. Course information, at least on IT Courses, is very sketchy. Iv been to the open days and the information can be vague. Plus, the registration fees are expensive - drop out, you wont get paid again.

    As I said, in my experience it is. Every year Dublin 15 students flock to Maynooth in large part due to it's convenience. It's 'cool' to get the train to Maynooth in a big group, go out on the lash midweek etc. People see Arts as an easy course so that combined with convenience is a breeding ground for wasters.

    I know that if it was costing a few grand for the course a lot of them wouldn't have been out there as mammy and daddy would have had more of a vested interest in how they were getting on.


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    #29
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Free fees were only introduced in 1996
    Yes I know, when times were good. How is it fair to bring them back now?
    PeakOutput wrote: »
    what families are you refering to exactly?
    middle income families, paye workers. If fees are re-introduced they will be the ones who will pay. You can talk all you like about only the top 5% paying the fees but you and I both know that won't happen.


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    #30
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    K4t wrote: »
    Yes I know, when times were good. How is it fair to bring them back now?

    yes when times were good ie the country could afford it. times are now bad therefore the country cannot afford it
    middle income families, paye workers. If fees are re-introduced they will be the ones who will pay. You can talk all you like about only the top 5% paying the fees but you and I both know that won't happen.

    ok so we are talking about different people here.

    when this was first talked about before christmas i believe was the first mentioned. the figure thrown around was families earning over 100K a year would have to pay fees. i have no problem with that as long as there is an allowance if they have 2/3/4 kids in college at the same time

    if the cut off is much lower than that i would totally disagree with it

    i also think that the grant system needs to be changed to increase the bands and decrease the ease of abuse


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    #31
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    You're showing your age there K4T, 'free fees' were only introduced in the mid 1990s. There was a time when fees were the norm.
    No, you mis-interpreted my post. What I'm saying is how is it fair to introduce fees now when the economy is completely screwed and when parents are facing income levies and increased taxes. In '96 the economy was thriving and fees were abolished! It doesn't make sense to me.


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