Protesting Ciggy increases

artyeva

thanks for that marcsignal :pac:

i might give them a go so and see how i get on

Dannyboy83

ionix5891 wrote: »

who will pay for your healtcare when you grow older and succumb to a wide range of diseases due to smoking?

yep thats right the taxpayer

yee should be taxed to hell or made illegal to get any healthcare even if you are about to die in a public hospital in this country

so stfu and be happy that its only 25cents more, yee people are costing this country millions (if not billions)

This argument is actually innaccurate.

Non-smoking, non obese people cost the most.
Obese, smokers cost the least.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22995659/
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18711498
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Healthy-people-39more-of-a.3742577.jp

Dannyboy83

To the OP, I quit smoking 6 weeks ago with my girlfriend.
You should seriously give it a shot, you have more incentive to do it now than ever with the prices.
If I can do it, anyone can do it.

It was as much the principal of the matter for me as much as anything.
I just felt that, if I come here and whinge & moan about the government, but I continue to smoke and pay for this evil administration, then really I'm just a hypocrite and would be better off locking my account.

I know hatred of this evil administration doesn't count for much when you're hanging for a fag, but since I quit I've gotten back into training and its had a few other positives spin offs.
I worked out that with all the money we lost on the budget, we probably offset a large chunk (tho not all) of the loss by quitting smoking.
That said however, if you don't quit I don't blame you, I know how hard it is and some of us need our crutches.


Anyway, I was just asking the smokers among my pals and family today about where they bought their cigarettes, and NOT ONE bought in an Irish shop (i.e. all bought some form of contraband):eek:

The recent statistics said that 1 in 4 packs was illegal, from my understanding, it is more like 1 in 4 packs are legal!!:eek:

Dannyboy83

Oh, by the way, if you buy cigarettes, be sure they are not from Switzerland - I know several people who developed heart problems after smoking the swiss cigarettes. Don't ask me how, but this is the truth.
If the Asian guys are offering you cheap Marlboro, make sure they are not the crappy filipino white filter (Romanian Marlboro are the same, white filter).
The new Russian LM are good to go and no longer taste like Nail polish, although I still thought the Ukranain stuff was rank the last time I tried it.
Polish & Lithuanian Marlboro Light are probably the best quality easily available, unless you get buddies to sent them in from Spain.


Stick to the obvious places when buying

Denerick

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Oh, by the way, if you buy cigarettes, be sure they are not from Switzerland - I know several people who developed heart problems after smoking the swiss cigarettes. Don't ask me how, but this is the truth.
If the Asian guys are offering you cheap Marlboro, make sure they are not the crappy filipino white filter (Romanian Marlboro are the same, white filter).
The new Russian LM are good to go and no longer taste like Nail polish, although I still thought the Ukranain stuff was rank the last time I tried it.
Polish & Lithuanian Marlboro Light are probably the best quality easily available, unless you get buddies to sent them in from Spain.


Stick to the obvious places when buying

Where do you get this bootleg tobacco? I smoke rolling tobacco these days but always wondered about this. I have a mate who goes home to Poland every 3 months or so and brings me back a 10 pack but what does everyone else do? Dodgy eastern guys on street corners?

thebman

Don't know why they don't insist the packs sold in Ireland have a special marking on them over other countries and on the spot fine people who don't have this marking on their pack/cig.

Would surely cut down on the people trying to evade the high tax on cigs.

K4t

Denerick wrote: »

Everyone else gets to protest, why don't we smokers come out in droves? They're taxing our addiction to utter absurdity. I took up tobacco rolling last year to counter the cost, I'd reccomend all do that. But still, I don't even know how much its gone up by because there seems to be some conflicting information, but price increase after price increase all we do is moan rather than do anything. Shouldn't we do something???

Yes, you must seize the GPO immediately.

ardmacha

how many road fatalities are caused by tobacco smoking?

Quite a few, smokers have 50% more accidents than non smokers
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12716567

it is not clear whether this is caused by smoking per se or the fact that smokers are irresponsible people.

ArmaniJeanss

thebman wrote: »

Don't know why they don't insist the packs sold in Ireland have a special marking on them over other countries and on the spot fine people who don't have this marking on their pack/cig.

Would surely cut down on the people trying to evade the high tax on cigs.

Free EU Market area, perfectly legal to be in possession of any product sold in the EU.

Edit: Handful of exceptions, Cars need VRT, Dutch drugs, etc.
Can't see the EU buying an exception for tobacco though.

marcsignal

walrusgumble wrote: »

right adolf!
heil!

LOL !

you're closer than you think walrusgumble :pac:

SeanW

One of the few things that nutter got right.

walrusgumble

marcsignal wrote: »

LOL !

you're closer than you think walrusgumble :pac:

great link

i would like to say that that was the whole point of m comment, but alas i cant:(

Dannyboy83

Denerick wrote: »

Where do you get this bootleg tobacco? I smoke rolling tobacco these days but always wondered about this. I have a mate who goes home to Poland every 3 months or so and brings me back a 10 pack but what does everyone else do? Dodgy eastern guys on street corners?

No, don't buy from street corners.
I'm not going to say on the forum, but suffice to say, if you know any non-nationals or any non-national retailers etc., then you're halfway there.

A little bit of imagination - people going to Spain can pay for half their plane tickets by selling cheap cigarettes to buddies.

If they buy in Spain for 25 a sleeve, thats E25 cost
They can sell here for 50 a sleeve, thats E25 profit.

Do that with 5 to 10 boxes, and they've made 150-250 Euro profit.
Thats better than drug dealing.

A person could basically go on holidays to Spain for free by doing that.
I would prefer to do it like that because you are sure the money is going to a relative and not to a drug dealer or a terrorist, which is apparently a big problem in London.

thebman wrote: »

Don't know why they don't insist the packs sold in Ireland have a special marking on them over other countries and on the spot fine people who don't have this marking on their pack/cig.

Would surely cut down on the people trying to evade the high tax on cigs.

Technically, they already do.
Big government seals of authenticity.
The thing is, if you're ever question, it was a gift!
You just happen to have a pal from TimbuckTwo who brought you cigarettes last week:D

This is more to stop people buying fake cigarettes than to prevent smuggling tho.
Recently there was a massive haul of cigarettes from Asia which apparently were stacked with saw dust and all kinds of sh*te. Hard to know what you can believe of course, could be just scaremongering too............if I could tell the difference between Russian and Irish cigarettes just by one drag, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to determine the difference between tobacco and sawdust, LOL

DublinWriter

ionix5891 wrote: »

who will pay for your healtcare when you grow older and succumb to a wide range of diseases due to smoking?

yep thats right the taxpayer

Yes, that's right, non-smokers will never require expensive palliative care towards the end of their lives because they are, in fact, immortal.

Such BS - we smokers actually *CONTRIBUTE* to society by *DYING EARLY* hence using up *LESS STATE PENSION RESOURCES*

Just ask any actuary.

Sorry for SHOUTING but I'm dying for a SMOKE.

ionix5891

DublinWriter wrote: »

Yes, that's right, non-smokers will never require expensive palliative care towards the end of their lives because they are, in fact, immortal.

Such BS - we smokers actually *CONTRIBUTE* to society by *DYING EARLY* hence using up *LESS STATE PENSION RESOURCES*

Just ask any actuary.

Sorry for SHOUTING but I'm dying for a SMOKE.

why dont you go contribute to society and shoot yourself now

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7654153.stm

Treating smokers costs the NHS in England £2.7bn a year, compared with £1.7bn a decade ago, a report claims.

now i wonder how much they collect from smokers in England per year in cigarate taxes

and whats the figures are for Ireland


so far there have been alot of replies with fud but little in the way of facts and figures


please show me a figure that shows that smokers pay more in taxes than they cost the economy in health etc and then we can talk about how unfair taxes on cigarettes are

smallBiscuit

Lets deal with the 'fact' that smokers are costing the poor innocent public billions in health care.


I think the tax return on smoking is around 40 or 50 percent. That's about €3.50 for every pack sold.
Your average smoker smokes a pack a day at €8.35, by 365 days is €3050 a year, of which 1250 is tax. You smoke for 40 years, making 50,000 in 'profit' for the govie.
Now your older, get lung cancer and die, oh the expense to the public, but you have private health care, which pays for that and you are not a cost, and your state pension is no longer required.

I think smokers should be encouraged, praised for the public service they provide. It's those selfish non smoking b******* that cost more, they dont provide the revenue to the govie and they live longer:D

thebman

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Edit: Handful of exceptions, Cars need VRT, Dutch drugs, etc.
Can't see the EU buying an exception for tobacco though.

I think they would. If we want to come down harder on a drug such as cigs then I'm guessing the EU would support that. Why would they be against it?

DublinWriter

smallBiscuit wrote: »

Lets deal with the 'fact' that smokers are costing the poor innocent public billions in health care.


I think the tax return on smoking is around 40 or 50 percent. That's about €3.50 for every pack sold.

You think wrong.

The figure in Ireland is 61%.

Don't you just love non-smoking puritans? I define a puritan as a person who thinks that someone, somewhere else, is having more fun than he is.

gizmo555

Denerick wrote: »

Smokers smoke because they get a little enjoyment from it. They know themselves the logical thing to do is to quit. But we smoke anyway. Just like people eat nineteen Dairy Milks in one sitting, or who drink a flagging of Jameson just before they hit town . . . .But frankly a bad habit is a bad habit, we all have them in one way or the other. If you eat crisps regularly apparantly your chances of getting cancer are greatly increased. If you remain over 20 stone for a serious amount of time your chances of getting heart disease, and all manner of obesity related illnesses skyrocket. If you drink too much your brain may shrivel and die, you may get a stroke or a heart attack.

So yes, everyone is aware that everyone has terrible habits. Its just a pity that smokers are always singled out.

The difference between smoking and all the other bad habits you mention is that is possible to drink alcohol, eat chocolate or crisps in moderation with no ill effects or possibly even with positive health benefits.

Smoking, on the other hand, is always harmful to health - there is no safe level at which it isn't.

smallBiscuit

gizmo555 wrote: »

The difference between smoking and all the other bad habits you mention is that is possible to drink alcohol, eat chocolate or crisps in moderation with no ill effects or possibly even with positive health benefits.

Smoking, on the other hand, is always harmful to health - there is no safe level at which it isn't.

Life is bad for the health, no point in worrying about it.
I'm giving up from tomorrow, but I'm giving up because my clothes smell and the cost.
Giving up smoking will not make me life forever, I may live a couple of years more, but add in the risks of dementia or Alzheimer's or just general deterioration and the bit that smokes take off your life are pretty crappy anyway

Also the way the gov are buggering up the economy, I'll probably die from starvation when they take us back to a famine era economy efore smokes or anything else has a chance to kill me

nesf

ionix5891 wrote: »

now i wonder how much they collect from smokers in England per year in cigarate taxes

and whats the figures are for Ireland

Off hand, for Ireland, total excise duty receipts is around 6 Billion Euro with cigarettes forming a fair chunk of that.

walrusgumble

smallBiscuit wrote: »

Lets deal with the 'fact' that smokers are costing the poor innocent public billions in health care.


I think the tax return on smoking is around 40 or 50 percent. That's about €3.50 for every pack sold.
Your average smoker smokes a pack a day at €8.35, by 365 days is €3050 a year, of which 1250 is tax. You smoke for 40 years, making 50,000 in 'profit' for the govie.
Now your older, get lung cancer and die, oh the expense to the public, but you have private health care, which pays for that and you are not a cost, and your state pension is no longer required.

I think smokers should be encouraged, praised for the public service they provide. It's those selfish non smoking b******* that cost more, they dont provide the revenue to the govie and they live longer:D

finally someone has coped on! you would swear that every cancer ridden smoker is on the bloody medicial card and that treatment and medicine is free.

thebman

walrusgumble wrote: »

finally someone has coped on! you would swear that every cancer ridden smoker is on the bloody medicial card and that treatment and medicine is free.

Aren't most smokers from poorer backgrounds in which case they will be more likely to be using a medical card?

gizmo555

In 2001, the consultants Arthur D Little notoriously produced a report for Philip Morris of Marlboro fame, aimed at persuading the Czech government to go easy on tobacco. They argued this on the basis that nett of healthcare costs, the government profited by over stg£104m from smokers, taking into account the reduced pension payments and overall healthcare costs due to lower life expectancy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/czechrepublic/1334489/Smoking-deaths-can-help-your-economy.html

Some might consider it excessively cynical that a government should try to save money by consciously pursuing a policy that it expects to shorten the lives of large numbers of its citizens . . .

smallBiscuit

thebman wrote: »

Aren't most smokers from poorer backgrounds in which case they will be more likely to be using a medical card?

Yes, that may be true (I don't know if it is, but I conversely I don't know if it isn't) but the otherpoints still stand. The gov will be supporting them for a shorter hence cheaper period of time.

Anyway, do you think that non smokers aren't as expensive for health care in their old age? They're more expensive because they live for longer so the illnesses which they suffer from, which are the same as smokers by the way, will last longer and be more expensive.

Do you realise that there is anecdotal evidence that modem foods and the chemicals and processing done on them are a major cause of cancer, hearth decease, high blood pressure, liver failures and lots of other interesting health problems? and that sugar is addictive?

Perhaps food should be taxed as highly discourage its usage;)

thebman

smallBiscuit wrote: »

Yes, that may be true (I don't know if it is, but I conversely I don't know if it isn't) but the otherpoints still stand. The gov will be supporting them for a shorter hence cheaper period of time.

Anyway, do you think that non smokers aren't as expensive for health care in their old age? They're more expensive because they live for longer so the illnesses which they suffer from, which are the same as smokers by the way, will last longer and be more expensive.

Do you realise that there is anecdotal evidence that modem foods and the chemicals and processing done on them are a major cause of cancer, hearth decease, high blood pressure, liver failures and lots of other interesting health problems? and that sugar is addictive?

Perhaps food should be taxed as highly discourage its usage;)

Well I don't actually care one way or the other

I don't smoke because it doesn't do anything for me.

SeanW

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Free EU Market area, perfectly legal to be in possession of any product sold in the EU.

Edit: Handful of exceptions, Cars need VRT, Dutch drugs, etc.
Can't see the EU buying an exception for tobacco though.

Point of fact: drugs aren't legal in Holland, they simply have an official policy of looking the other way with for example, cannibis in "Coffee Shops."