Stopping the Flow of Irish Money to the North

cls

Dummy wrote: »

I am baffled - the Minister is talking about saving €100M here and €187M there, but what was there in that Budget to would put a stop to the flow of Irish money flowing into Northern Ireland every week?

What incentive is there to encourage the Irish shopper to shop in an Irish shop? Instead there is added incentive to go North or to shop on the internet.

How much money do we would need to loose to the North, how many more Irish jobs do we need to loose before the Government realise that money leaving the State is much worse than the cost of a Job Seekers Allowance or Childcare Supplement?

We need to re-evaluate the two economies that exist on our small island - one of which will continue to thrive on our money. Anyone that goes to shop there, I say well done - follow that bargain.

Would a reduction in the VAT rates have done anything? Are the Irish retailers mature enough to pass on reductions in VAT to the consumer? Would revenue to the Exchequer increase with an increase in motor sales from a VRT reduction?

Instead of Irish shoppers going outside the State to get that bargain, let's learn from the experience and change the market into one where the shoppers coming flocking to our state.

Yes I have loads of questions that the Government should be asking and providing a solution for. Not me !!:mad:

The problem used to be very simple- devalue the Punt. In fact it was the devaluation of Sterling that mainly caused it, along with cheaper tax rates. Even if the government didn't increase VAT the North would still be much cheaper. We cannot devalue the Euro, so unless Germany or France need a devaluation we're pretty much stuck until the cost of everything comes down. What makes the cost of everything come down? People shopping in the North is one thing

jimmmy

Seeing as the Irish taxpayer is paying so much to our politicians and our public servants ( 966 per week plus perks ), how about encouraging them to spend that in our economy ? I know of one public servant on 60,000 pension a year who does his shopping up north. How about a voucher system for some of his outrageous pension ?

De Hipster

omahaid wrote: »

I wouldnt be so sure, there is tax money at stake now, Customs and the Gardai will have an extra incentive to check cars for too much booze!

Eh open-market, no legal restrictions on how much booze your can buy/carry in your car. I can drive to Asda 24hr in the North to buy booze at any hour of the day or night too.

Yesterdays budget has underlined how out-of-touch the government are with the people, European & UK policies and global leadership trends to kick-start the world-wide economy.

Therefore I will continue to shop in the North not only as a cost-saving exercise but also as a protest stand against the poor management of the Irish economy over the last three+ FF governments.

The Irish people may well eventually come to their senses and opt to tick a non-FF box on the ballot paper next time.

bauderline

omahaid wrote: »

I wouldnt be so sure, there is tax money at stake now, Customs and the Gardai will have an extra incentive to check cars for too much booze!

They don't have the resources or anything like to police the various rat runs across the border. Don't forget all of the blocked off roads have been reopened a long time ago since the peace process. There are stacks of roads across the border now.... I never use the M1 and shop up in Portadown as it's way less packed.

Remember "The Code Of The Border Road" ....

K-9

De Hipster wrote: »

Eh open-market, no legal restrictions on how much booze your can buy/carry in your car. I can drive to Asda 24hr in the North to buy booze at any hour of the day or night too.

There are limits, not as low as the 80's but there are limits on how much drink, cigs etc. you can bring back.

De Hipster wrote:

Yesterdays budget has underlined how out-of-touch the government are with the people, European & UK policies and global leadership trends to kick-start the world-wide economy.

Therefore I will continue to shop in the North not only as a cost-saving exercise but also as a protest stand against the poor management of the Irish economy over the last three+ FF governments.

The Irish people may well eventually come to their senses and opt to tick a non-FF box on the ballot paper next time.

And the UK has managed theirs so much better?

PS. traders in Derry were complaining how bad things were only last Summer.

De Hipster

K-9 wrote: »

Not lecturing at all. I get paid too, have taken a wage and hour cut, have a son etc. and live a few miles from the border.

The savings you are making are short term savings which will result in higher taxes, unemployment and spending cuts and border areas being ghost towns. I remember towns like Ballyshannon in the 80's.

Prices are coming down here and they will come down more. We can point out wage differences etc. but the big one is sterling near at parity. The South just cannot compete with that.

What have FF done to even tackle these problems?

In monaghan alone, they have closed the hospital & placed the psychiatric hospital on the market ala Sligo, they prevented/removed any public sector investment & governmental support for industry, they moved the army barracks from the town and punished the people of these areas for voting in alternatives to FF by further & further digging in the knife...until FF are removed Monaghan would've been healthier under UK Margaret Thatcher rule...

spank_inferno

The thread title asks "stopping the flow of Irish money to the North"

I guess to sum up, that in itself simply cannot be done.
We can lower VAT but the gov feel they cant afford to take that 6.5% hit.
And besides I dont trust the retailers to pass it on in the first place.

Through government action (or inaction) we have the highest business costs (excluding wage) in the western world. So I know its tough on retailers too.

Some posters have mentioned that we cannot get out of recession until we start spending money within the republic.
I believe we have primarily an obligation to provide as best as we can for our loved ones in the best way we can.

As a citizen of this republic I will spend my money here when this government changes the habit of a lifetime and actualy give a s*it about me and my fellow citizens.

De Hipster

K-9 wrote: »

There are limits, not as low as the 80's but there are limits on how much drink, cigs etc. you can bring back.



And the UK has managed theirs so much better?

Yes...enough to keep the NI economy living off the ROI's, creating green employment sector & agreeing common policy goals with US & (most of) Europe.

K-9

De Hipster wrote: »

What have FF done to even tackle these problems?

In monaghan alone, they have closed the hospital & placed the psychiatric hospital on the market ala Sligo, they prevented/removed any public sector investment & governmental support for industry, they moved the army barracks from the town and punished the people of these areas for voting in alternatives to FF by further & further digging in the knife...until FF are removed Monaghan would've been healthier under UK Margaret Thatcher rule...

Nice rant. Strangely bad and all as things are in Letterkenny, the Govt. is by far the biggest employer with the Hospitals and Regional college.

K-9

De Hipster wrote: »

Yes...enough to keep the NI economy living off the ROI's, creating green employment sector & agreeing common policy goals with US & (most of) Europe.

NI is insignificant in UK overall terms. The VAT cut was a disaster and hasn't brought any extra revenue in.

You think the UK cared when Northerners were spending here?

JP Liz

more will be going up north now to shop

Dummy

cls wrote: »

What makes the cost of everything come down? People shopping in the North is one thing

I completely agree. Unfortunately it wasn't enough to generate a reaction from the Minister.

Mal-Adjusted

PaulHardwick wrote: »

You know nothing.

Wages costs are at least double the north, as are rents and insurance.

yet they're making massive profits. you're the one who knows nothing mate;)

K-9

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

yet they're making massive profits. you're the one who knows nothing mate;)

Would these be the ones that are closing down or laying of staff?

BluntByName

I think the Goverment are "banking" on the UK to raise their VAT back up (19%-20%) in the budget in two weeks time.

bauderline

K-9 wrote: »

Would these be the ones that are closing down or laying of staff?

They shut down parts of the operation that are loss making, doesn't mean the entire operation is loss making... far from it....

Mal-Adjusted

BluntByName wrote: »

I think the Goverment are "banking" on the UK to raise their VAT back up (19%-20%) in the budget in two weeks time.

if that's the case, they (our own crowd) should have waited until then to do their own budget! now is not the time to gamble & try to anticipate another government's budget

K-9

BluntByName wrote: »

I think the Goverment are "banking" on the UK to raise their VAT back up (19%-20%) in the budget in two weeks time.

It'll make a little difference, but the exchange rate is the problem.

bauderline wrote: »

They shut down parts of the operation that are loss making, doesn't mean the entire operation is loss making... far from it....

Not all retailers are the same!

De Hipster

K-9 wrote: »

Nice rant.

Thanks


The problem being that unfortunately (as said on this thread previously), the government cannot stop the flow of finances to the North as they have done little to incentivise the people to shop in the south as VAT alone means they get even more of the little earnings they’ve left us with to live on.

beggars_bush

call me stupid but somthing is not right between prices in the North and Republic

was in Marks and Spencers the other day

a pack of 7 socks - €15. Nice socks too. the tag had £9 on it

now, today's currency exchange for £9 is 9.99 euro.

we are being ripped off in the Republic. Simple as. Why do you think those UK companies have all opened shops in the Republic in the last 10 years? cause they can cream off bigger profits. End of

K-9

De Hipster wrote: »

Thanks


The problem being that unfortunately (as said on this thread previously), the government cannot stop the flow of finances to the North as they have done little to incentivise the people to shop in the south as VAT alone means they get even more of the little earnings they’ve left us with to live on.

Maybe there is also the point, that prices are coming down so let the market adjust itself and not artificially boost it. I don't know if even a 5% drop would make a massive difference to spending here. People are that scared after losing jobs, wages and hours cut, the threat of job losses that they aren't just going to go out buying LCD TV's because of a 5% cut. Rightly so.

cls

Dummy wrote: »

I completely agree. Unfortunately it wasn't enough to generate a reaction from the Minister.

Its a reaction from the retailers we need, not the minister. The government can't force prices down. The retailers need to drop their prices and not only that they need to get the message out there because people are automatically going North without even shopping around or comparing prices.

cojomo2

eoinbn wrote: »

More evidence that this country is screwed.

There is a VERY simple reason why prices in this country are 20-25% higher than north. The average wage in NI last year was €25,000, it's €37,000 south of the border. We are over paid gits which drive up the cost of goods as everyone is ripping each other off.

this is part of the problem allright...the other big problem is commercial landlords in this country. Rents in Dublin are up to 10 times higher than the likes of belfast city. Personally im being totally screwed in rent. You just wouldnt believe how much it is, and this in turn makes the cost of good here overpriced.

Every1 along the chain are taking hits in this recession..suppliers are giving discounts, staff taking pay cuts, retailers lowering prices to get stuff moving..the only ones who arnt are the greedy landlords with their ''upwards only'' rent reviews. Bastads...if i wasnt tied into a lease id be gone..

NOGMaxpower

K4t wrote: »

Many, lots of retailers are still ripping consumers off. I have no sympathy for them. I applaude people who are going North to shop.

Here here well said!

NOGMaxpower

Just throwing this out there, if we were a united Ireland there would be no problem. In fact I believe our economy would be much stronger and everyone would benefit. Maybe just maybe Sinn Fein have a point.

Dummy

BluntByName wrote: »

I think the Goverment are "banking" on the UK to raise their VAT back up (19%-20%) in the budget in two weeks time.

Blunt - it is a huge risk to take - to bank on something that may not happen.

We need to change the Irish model - it doesn't work. We have become a high cost economy and the knee jerk reactions of yesterdays budget will not solve the problem in the long-term.

We need a brand new model to compete with the low cost economies of Asia and Eastern Europe. This must start from the bottom up.

It starts with stemming the flow of money to the north. It is only natural that people will travel there if the basket of goods is considerably cheaper than it is here.

In no way am I trying to advocate people going north - it is a fact of what Ireland has become. We now have to provide a stimulus to these people to shop down here, keep this money in the south, keep retail outlets open, maintain jobs and promote a trust in our economy.

weiss

i'm considering moving to northern ireland since this last budget.

Dummy

cls wrote: »

Its a reaction from the retailers we need, not the minister. The government can't force prices down. The retailers need to drop their prices and not only that they need to get the message out there because people are automatically going North without even shopping around or comparing prices.

Good point. Perhaps this should be addressed by the Retailers Organisation (can't remember their name at the mo) in conjunction with employers groups and Government. But as I said, it requires REAL leadership, balls and backbone.

oppiuy

You think this Budget was harsh. Just you wait until after the euro elections.
We'll be hit left right and centre

Dummy

oppiuy wrote: »

You think this Budget was harsh. Just you wait until after the euro elections.
We'll be hit left right and centre

Use the occasion to press home this issue with the people that call to your door or stop you on the street. The time for small talk is over. Don't let them start a sentence with "at the end of the day" or "going forward". This political mumbo jumbo talk is not going to get us out of the hole we are in.

Press home the need for action NOW.