Stopping the Flow of Irish Money to the North

bauderline

cojomo2 wrote: »

if only it was that easy.

im 27, have no kids, and when signing the lease was told my personal guarantee wouldnt be worth a crap as my net worth isnt big enuf...

at this point i reluctantly asked my dad would he sign it, he thought about it and agreed...and it was acepted. Now if i default on rent or do a runner, they go after him, so not an option!!

Sweet Jesus !! Did you hand over your kidneys while you were at it ?!

I genuinely hope you find a way through this ! However I think you are screwed !

omahaid

People are complaining a lot about landlords, but dont forget Tesco own Wilton shopping centre in Cork (yes, the whole centre). What rent is causing them to keep prices high? They surely have the same suppliers (for some items they must have), so how is it there is such (and I mean several 100%) difference on some items? Is it wage differences (reminder, several 100%), rent (no rent for them), or...?

bauderline

meaculpa wrote: »

Whatever about all that economic gloom (and with apologies to the moderator)….

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Very good.... It sure wan't a wedding by Franc though..... Thanks be to god !

patnor1011

I dont blame anyone going to shop in north... When you compare prices in tesco, dunnes, centra on one side and lidl, aldi on the other side you will see the difference. That lidl and aldi has to pay the same money for energy, rent, wages as the others and still are much cheaper than multinationals like tesco... There is robbery in progress here few years going on and if they will close few more shops it is not becouse of people going to shop north but becouse of them not willing to accept lesser profit.:mad:

BluntByName

Had my future bro in law form the UK over two weeks ago, and nearly had a stroke when he was asked for 20 euros for 4 pints of 7up in a Irish pub.
Couldn't believe it. 10 pounds in the UK.

RIPOFF Ireland is alive and well.
Roll on the local elections in June is all I say.

Brian Lenihan said it was a mistake to increase the VAT by 0.5% but didn't even bring it down by that 0.5% yesterday. How will FF and Green Councilors expain that when they come looking for your vote at your door in May.

cojomo2

Sleipnir wrote: »

Well, I would agree with number two; the inability to pay rent on a business property should not have an attached risk to the family home.

Number one is unworkable though. Could you legislate to outlaw upward-only prices on goods?
How would you clearly define "upward only" Is that something that is defined in the lease?

hmm, i dont think u are comparing like with like. If you sign a 25 year lease for a retail unit with upward only rent reviews, reviewed every 5 years, the ball is totally in the landlords court. legally he can double the rent every 5 yrs, maybe he wont tho, maybe it will be only a 50% increase.or 75% who knows?yet the tennant is supposed to sign and agree to pay the rent for the 25 years without knowing what the increase every 5 yrs will be.

take this example..i sign a 25 yr lease..thing are booming ..so rent is high ..say 50,000/yr....5 yrs on and theres a review..thing still booming, celtic tiger and all that..50% increase, so now im paying 75,000/yr..high but sales are booming all the same.5 yrs on and theres a major recession, sales have dropped big time so landlord says'' upward only..extra 25%'' so now im paying nearly double what i started off paying and sales are about half what they were....

thats the problem rite there..this upward only bullsh*t...

stevelknievel

bauderline wrote: »

Well I am stumped... I have a wife and two kids which means my shopping list content is fairly wide ranging.. many the deals offered by Supervalu only address a small portion of the weekly shopping list and you will end up paying top whack for everything else, with the result the net effect is pointless.

Moreover I have to really disagree with you on the price cuts front, a weekly shop in ROI seems just as expensive as ever. On a average weekly shop I save almost 100 euros by shopping in Tescos Portadown. This is not only due to the price difference but also the amount of two for one offers and buy one get one free offers in that store far outstrips anything I have ever witnessed south of the border.

A real life example.. six pack fo lucozade in Tescos ROI ... circa €6.70 the same six pack in Tescos NI £2.50 .... I mean WTF !?

In the current economic climate people will continue to seek value for money North of the border... its an unstoppable force of economics. The only people who have the power to stop this is Irish retailers, if they want to survive this and they do care about where the Irish economy is going then they needs to get their customers back by offering them what they want.... value for money....

Supervalu's deals only offer a small portion, yes. But shop around. If you go to different shops, and take each of their deals, you will save a helluva lot. I know you may think that's a lot of work, but bear in mind a lot of people spend 3-4 hours(and a good bit of cash) driving up and down to the North. I just feel that if we're going to pull through this, everyone has to work together. Everyone has to take hits. Unfortunately people will continue to seek better value in the north. But that just feeds the monster we're crossing the border to hide from.

bauderline

stevelknievel wrote: »

Supervalu's deals only offer a small portion, yes. But shop around. If you go to different shops, and take each of their deals, you will save a helluva lot. I know you may think that's a lot of work, but bear in mind a lot of people spend 3-4 hours(and a good bit of cash) driving up and down to the North. I just feel that if we're going to pull through this, everyone has to work together. Everyone has to take hits. Unfortunately people will continue to seek better value in the north. But that just feeds the monster we're crossing the border to hide from.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you there. This may be practical to some sort of degree in Dublin or other large metro areas however you have to know what deals will be available at what shop and on what day, and there is no guarantee that you will be able to get that deal on the day you are running low on something... nappies for instance !! Moreover this is not practical in rural Ireland were shops are found on an either / or basis and not on an "AND" basis... You either have Supervalu OR Spar.... but not both..

Better to go where you know you can get all the items at good value for money.

**** THE PRICE OF GROCERIES NEEDS TO COME DOWN IN ROI ****

Retailers need to bite the bullet and stop whining or shut up shop !

cls

CamperMan wrote: »

Landlords do have mortgages on these premises, if they pay ex amount in mortgage payments each month, how can they reduce the rent just to suit the tenant, they can't, the landlord has to keep up those hefty mortgage payments!!

It should be no different than residential landlords. Sell and get out or take the hit.

O'Coonassa

BluntByName wrote: »

RIPOFF Ireland is alive and well.
Roll on the local elections in June is all I say.

Why? They'll change nothing.

badinfleunce

This budget has attacked everyone on a Grand scale and the lack of proper insight and forecast that every dog on the street can see is just amateur. How this Government think they are going to tax their way out of the recession is beyond belief. They have with the "stroke" of a pen taken the spending money out of the economy and out of everyones pockets. There is no money left to spend with the high prices and taxes here.

They want us to Vote yes for Europe so lets vote with our feet and Go Up North to shop and avail of what Europe has to offer. Its a darn sight better than what this Mafia run state has to offer.

They will never achieve what they have set out. - Roll on local elections.:mad::mad:

cls

badinfleunce wrote: »

This budget has attacked everyone on a Grand scale and the lack of proper insight and forecast that every dog on the street can see is just amateur. How this Government think they are going to tax their way out of the recession is beyond belief. They have with the "stroke" of a pen taken the spending money out of the economy and out of everyones pockets. There is no money left to spend with the high prices and taxes here.

They want us to Vote yes for Europe so lets vote with our feet and Go Up North to shop and avail of what Europe has to offer. Its a darn sight better than what this Mafia run state has to offer.

They will never achieve what they have set out. - Roll on local elections.:mad::mad:

Good to hear this kind of talk at last. But to all those former FF voters, don't you think it's a bit late to be voting with your feet?

oppiuy

cls wrote: »

Good to hear this kind of talk at last. But to all those former FF voters, don't you think it's a bit late to be voting with your feet?

Couln't agree more.. are the Government to blame?yes of course. But so to the morons who put them there every election

KevR

I always did a lot of my clothes shopping and the like over in England, even when we had the good times in Ireland. Even when sterling was really strong against the euro I was still saving a bit. Now I'm saving loads because the euro is stronger and they pay less VAT, also retailers there seem to be less likely to rip people off.

stevelknievel

badinfleunce wrote: »

They want us to Vote yes for Europe so lets vote with our feet and Go Up North to shop and avail of what Europe has to offer. Its a darn sight better than what this Mafia run state has to offer.

But do people not understand, where we shop won't affect the Government. It will only hurt the people. You want to affect the Governemnt, take to streets of Dublin. March on Leinster House and demand resignations. 12% of the population who are unemployed have nothing better to do with their day anyway. But bringing money out of the country will just hurt you, me, the public and make it a lot harder on whoever takes over.

OPENROAD

K-9 wrote: »

It'll make a little difference, but the exchange rate is the problem.

In reality it is much more than that though, exchange rate has only shifted in the last year or so, we were still way too expensive compared to the UK prior to the fx movement.

K-9

OPENROAD wrote: »

In reality it is much more than that though, exchange rate has only shifted in the last year or so, we were still way too expensive compared to the UK prior to the fx movement.

Never said otherwise, that's why I mentioned minimum wage, rents etc.

You'd swear retailers were exempt from the property bubble!

Some of the UK retailers here seem the worst offenders, even still not passing on the difference. Glad to see the Nintendo DSi priced very competitively here. More of that please!

gurramok

I shopped up north when the euro was worth 67p and i still made savings.

Just think its been 85p to parity in th elast year and that makes you think how outrageous the savings have been.

OPENROAD

K-9 wrote: »

Never said otherwise, that's why I mentioned minimum wage, rents etc.

You'd swear retailers were exempt from the property bubble!

Some of the UK retailers here seem the worst offenders, even still not passing on the difference. Glad to see the Nintendo DSi priced very competitively here. More of that please!

Sorry, you did indeed make this point.

We have been more expensive compared to even some very upmarket dept stores in London for years now, I compared many prices on goods and always found it cheaper in London compared to Irish stores which are just as bad as UK stores, the difference is consumers can see the stg price in UK stores. As you say costs are very high but something is seriously wrong when London is cheaper than here imo. Prices are starting to fall now but we still have some way to go.

ardmacha

At stated many times here many things people are buying in Newry are groceries etc which have no VAT. People might be willing to pay the cost differences that are caused by VAT and other real costs, but not willing to pay for extra profit margins.

I would suggest some like the Guaranteed Irish scheme. Companies could get a "Fair Price" approval by joining a scheme which was check that they were charging only prices which were similar to the North or where any differences were down to higher wages or VAT actually paid. Currency changes should be passed in on a defined time, e.g. 3 months. The scheme would have union and consumer reps ensuring that retailers that we doing their best could join and unions etc should encourage people to patronise such businesses. Business might seek pay cuts but only if they are already charging such prices.

I'd also suggest a corporation tax rate of 90% for the companies who didn't join, but this is probably not possible. Some sort of super tax for businesses with excessive profit margins would be desirable.

lmimmfn

ill be doing a monthly shop up north for the foreseeable future, considering the tax increases from the budget savings have to come not just from shopping but all expenditure.
The prices here are crazy especially for the multinationals like tesco, most things are 25-50% cheaper, theres no way its just vat differences. Yes its costs in fuel to travel up, but for a monthly shop the savings are huge.

I cant believe the likes of Tesco, i bought a bottle of Tesco champagne in November for 23.50euro, i was abroad then until christmas but then the same bottle was then ~27.50, in a fecking resession, rip off ireland continues unfortunately.

Id love to support the economy but both the government and the multinationals are telling us otherwise. For things other than shopping ill continue to try and bargain local and support the economy where i can.

I dont blame the government for this groceries pricing problem, i blame the greed thats been inherent in our country for the past 10 years, and its unfortunate we've ended up in this state but we've ourselves mostly to blame for all this. Think about it, if they reduced VAT Tescos and all the other grocery shops would just keep the same prices and profit the VAT difference.

PeteHeat

ardmacha wrote: »

At stated many times here many things people are buying in Newry are groceries etc which have no VAT. People might be willing to pay the cost differences that are caused by VAT and other real costs, but not willing to pay for extra profit margins.

I would suggest some like the Guaranteed Irish scheme. Companies could get a "Fair Price" approval by joining a scheme which was check that they were charging only prices which were similar to the North or where any differences were down to higher wages or VAT actually paid. Currency changes should be passed in on a defined time, e.g. 3 months. The scheme would have union and consumer reps ensuring that retailers that we doing their best could join and unions etc should encourage people to patronise such businesses. Business might seek pay cuts but only if they are already charging such prices.

I'd also suggest a corporation tax rate of 90% for the companies who didn't join, but this is probably not possible. Some sort of super tax for businesses with excessive profit margins would be desirable.

I wonder how many of the people who post in here are employed by companies competing against the N.I. prices ?

Would they take a pay cut just to ensure the company can compete on an even playing field ?

Somehow I doubt many if any are in such employment, and as the gripes tend to be against banks, government and retailers I doubt any would take the necessary pay cut.

I see more administration proposed "Fair Price" Scheme ? would you take the pay cuts and work the extra hours to ensure your retailer boss could meet the target prices ?

You can propose Corporation Tax at 100% it could only be effective if there were any profits, so no problem there.

The banks offered the money, it doesn't mean the public had to take it, the government was asleep at the wheel I didn't hear too many shouting at them to wake up.

This whole thread has turned in a forum for victims who hate the Big Man who has done them wrong.

If the answer is to help scuttle this ship, go ahead the younger "adults" and their children will still be the ones left to clean up an even bigger mess.

Of course Y'all can then claim at least some of the credit for the mess.

.

bauderline

PeteHeat wrote: »

I wonder how many of the people who post in here are employed by companies competing against the N.I. prices ?

Would they take a pay cut just to ensure the company can compete on an even playing field ?

Somehow I doubt many if any are in such employment, and as the gripes tend to be against banks, government and retailers I doubt any would take the necessary pay cut.

I see more administration proposed "Fair Price" Scheme ? would you take the pay cuts and work the extra hours to ensure your retailer boss could meet the target prices ?

You can propose Corporation Tax at 100% it could only be effective if there were any profits, so no problem there.

The banks offered the money, it doesn't mean the public had to take it, the government was asleep at the wheel I didn't hear too many shouting at them to wake up.

This whole thread has turned in a forum for victims who hate the Big Man who has done them wrong.

If the answer is to help scuttle this ship, go ahead the younger "adults" and their children will still be the ones left to clean up an even bigger mess.

Of course Y'all can then claim at least some of the credit for the mess.

.

Get over yourself mate !

Many people working for firms in the private sector HAVE taken pay cuts. I admit I was lucky, I got away with a pay freeze this year at least and better yet I still have a job. Many many jobs in my sector have gone to India in the past few years, so we all have to get used to competing in a european and global market.

As I said earlier in this thread if this country is to recover from the almighty mess it is in it needs to get a lot more competitive, which in turn means the costs of running and doing business in this country must come down.

Yes the cost of labour has to come down, people will have to take pay cuts, the cost of commercial rents will have to come down... AND firms will have to accept smaller profit margins.

Its been a gravy train down here the last ten years and everyone knows it. They also know that they have been borrowing too much money and throwing it around the place in a fairly stupid fashion. I am sure there is a large slice of the Irish population who now have a few regrets.

People are now in survival mode and shopping around for the best deals when spending their money, it just so happens most of the best deals are found North of the border. I applaud and salute these people for copping on at last and helping to bring this country kicking and screaming back to reality.

In the last ten years we have paid too much for crap cars, crap houses, crap food, crap wine, crap banks, crap service and above all else crap government.

That's quite enough crap thank you... lets get real !!

P.

PeteHeat

bauderline wrote: »

Get over yourself mate !

Many people working for firms in the private sector HAVE taken pay cuts. I admit I was lucky, I got away with a pay freeze this year at least and better yet I still have a job. Many many jobs in my sector have gone to India in the past few years, so we all have to get used to competing in a european and global market.

As I said earlier in this thread if this country is to recover from the almighty mess it is in it needs to get a lot more competitive, which in turn means the costs of running and doing business in this country must come down.

Yes the cost of labour has to come down, people will have to take pay cuts, the cost of commercial rents will have to come down... AND firms will have to accept smaller profit margins.

Its been a gravy train down here the last ten years and everyone knows it. They also know that they have been borrowing too much money and throwing it around the place in a fairly stupid fashion. I am sure there is a large slice of the Irish population who now have a few regrets.

People are now in survival mode and shopping around for the best deals when spending their money, it just so happens most of the best deals are found North of the border. I applaud and salute these people for copping on at last and helping to bring this country kicking and screaming back to reality.

In the last ten years we have paid too much for crap cars, crap houses, crap food, crap wine, crap banks, crap service and above all else crap government.

That's quite enough crap thank you... lets get real !!

P.

Hi,

I do believe we are both saying the same thing, the difference is I don't polish what I am saying, earlier in this thread I agreed many must shop elsewhere I even endorse their action.

What has changed since that post is the number of childish posts by supposed adults stomping their feet like 2 year olds pledging to spend their hard earned money anywhere but here.

Of course every consumer should get value for their money, maybe the lesson to be learned from the present crisis when the ecomony comes back around is don't forget to keep demanding that value regardless of how high your earnings rise in the future.

It would also help if those few who did not give full value to their employers for the work they were paid to do remember the days when Ireland crashed because goods and services became too expensive to compete on the international market.

There are lessons here for everyone and one of the first is do not shoot yourself in the foot by ignoring the local market because you now want to show the government what you think of them, the jobs of those lucky to still have them depend on how consumers choose to spend their money.

.

Mal-Adjusted

I checked out the Lidl, Aldi and other multinational websites ( a car rental one, can't remember the name )and every one of them marks their Irish prices up by about a third from their european counterparts (at least the french, spanish and Italian ones). we're bieng screwed from all angles!

lmimmfn

PeteHeat wrote: »

There are lessons here for everyone and one of the first is do not shoot yourself in the foot by ignoring the local market because you now want to show the government what you think of them, the jobs of those lucky to still have them depend on how consumers choose to spend their money.

.

Its unfortunate that our government thinks differently.

PeteHeat

lmimmfn wrote: »

Its unfortunate that our government thinks differently.

Sorry Ladies and Gents I know many posts are typed in anger I can assure you I am not on a pulpit preaching we are all exchanging our views.

What really annoys me is I did send am email to a Govt Minister early in the boom days to request they looked at modern history UK 1987 / 88 and to slow the money which in turn would have kept house prices under control.

The reply I received amounted to "Shut Up Ireland is not in any danger of such a crash"

I really wish I had been wrong about that one.

.

K-9

OPENROAD wrote: »

Sorry, you did indeed make this point.

We have been more expensive compared to even some very upmarket dept stores in London for years now, I compared many prices on goods and always found it cheaper in London compared to Irish stores which are just as bad as UK stores, the difference is consumers can see the stg price in UK stores. As you say costs are very high but something is seriously wrong when London is cheaper than here imo. Prices are starting to fall now but we still have some way to go.

You'd be amazed how high Dublin rents went in some areas. Absolute madness, but sure ordinary workers paid €400,000 grand for box apartments and were told property always goes up.

Anyway, great to see Nintendo leading by example.

K-9

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

I checked out the Lidl, Aldi and other multinational websites ( a car rental one, can't remember the name )and every one of them marks their Irish prices up by about a third from their european counterparts (at least the french, spanish and Italian ones). we're bieng screwed from all angles!

A third would be getting close.

Maybe it's the consumer who needs to readjust? Shocking notion I know. Ranting is so much more fun over actual rational discussion.

K-9

PeteHeat wrote: »

I wonder how many of the people who post in here are employed by companies competing against the N.I. prices ?

Would they take a pay cut just to ensure the company can compete on an even playing field ?

Somehow I doubt many if any are in such employment, and as the gripes tend to be against banks, government and retailers I doubt any would take the necessary pay cut.

I see more administration proposed "Fair Price" Scheme ? would you take the pay cuts and work the extra hours to ensure your retailer boss could meet the target prices ?

You can propose Corporation Tax at 100% it could only be effective if there were any profits, so no problem there.

The banks offered the money, it doesn't mean the public had to take it, the government was asleep at the wheel I didn't hear too many shouting at them to wake up.

This whole thread has turned in a forum for victims who hate the Big Man who has done them wrong.

If the answer is to help scuttle this ship, go ahead the younger "adults" and their children will still be the ones left to clean up an even bigger mess.

Of course Y'all can then claim at least some of the credit for the mess.

.

LOL.

Nothing to do with me knowing the 80's and what this does to border areas neither

Me Feinism and selfishness will use anything to defend itself.

I'm sure people will not be moaning when unemployment figures and taxes are rising.

Not my fault, no sir, in NO way whatsoever, was it my fault.