Stopping the Flow of Irish Money to the North

gurramok

Koloman wrote: »

Then why don't we all just rejoin the UK again? At least it would be cheaper!

Nope, its swings and roundabouts. It was actually cheaper here in the 90's than in NI when we devalued the punt.
Anyway, just ask the nordie petrol and diesel shoppers, you see, we gain some and lose some

lmimmfn

Koloman wrote: »

You also seem to forget that a lot of the money you hand over in VAT etc.. up North goes towards the lavish pensions of the British bankers! Remember Fred Goodwin and his cronies? You are just substituting Irish bankers for British ones.

do we really care? bottom line is:
We get less in income here now, disposable income will be next to nothing for a alot of us here in a few years time. If we can save a cent anywhere we can we will do so, i couldnt care less who the beneficiary is from us shopping up north as long as i can sustain myself and my partner thats good enough for me

gurramok wrote: »

Nope, its swings and roundabouts. It was actually cheaper here in the 90's than in NI when we devalued the punt.
Anyway, just ask the nordie petrol and diesel shoppers, you see, we gain some and lose some

exactly, we didnt seem to have a problem with northerners contributing to our economy in the past 15 years, so why should the reverse be true?

RiverWilde

Koloman wrote: »

Then why don't we all just rejoin the UK again? At least it would be cheaper!

Nah, you'd just give the murdering bastards another excuse to kill people. I like cheap groceries, I don't want to risk death to get 'em.

Riv

gurramok

And we didn't have a problem with hordes going on their US shopping trips during the boom years?
It just so happens the basics are getting hit by NI shopping now and contrast that to the the ignorance about customs and politicians never targeting the US shoppers who by and large were luxury item shoppers hence middle class types.

But when the poor man wants to shop around for groceries, he is 'unpatriotic', pathetic. :mad:

lmimmfn

gurramok wrote: »

And we didn't have a problem with hordes going on their US shopping trips during the boom years?
It just so happens the basics are getting hit by NI shopping now and contrast that to the the ignorance about customs and politicians never targeting the US shoppers who by and large were luxury item shoppers hence middle class types.

But when the poor man wants to shop around for groceries, he is 'unpatriotic', pathetic. :mad:

may make that upper middle class types, im middle class, but i never once in my life went on any stupid shopping trip, ive also throughout the boom years never ever experienced any improvement in my lifestyle, ive never spent lavishly, i never bought property in the boom years, so throw me in with the 'unpatriotic' type thats shopping up north because im trying at least to have some form of disposible income after the tax hikes because im getting married this year.

Koloman

gurramok wrote: »

And we didn't have a problem with hordes going on their US shopping trips during the boom years?
It just so happens the basics are getting hit by NI shopping now and contrast that to the the ignorance about customs and politicians never targeting the US shoppers who by and large were luxury item shoppers hence middle class types.

But when the poor man wants to shop around for groceries, he is 'unpatriotic', pathetic. :mad:

A lot of the cars in the NI shopping centres don't suggest "the poor man" to me!

A lot of higher end public sector workers i would suggest!

professore

CamperMan wrote: »

Landlords do have mortgages on these premises, if they pay ex amount in mortgage payments each month, how can they reduce the rent just to suit the tenant, they can't, the landlord has to keep up those hefty mortgage payments!!

You can make the same argument about the taxpayer with a mortgage.

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

I understand where the poster is coming from especially in anger and frustration.

Why should we spend money in ROI that is wasted on an overpaid public service?

Having an accountable govt that we can trust to tackle difficult issues would be a start. I too go up north every month for basics and for example on a few occasions i heard our overpaid Taoiseach declare that he deserved that pay rise, it pissed me off further so it justified my position to shop in NI.

But deep down i know, in the long term, i am helping the public(especially the poor) down here to get cheaper prices in the shops here by shopping elsewhere.

There will always be waste.

Hell, there's waste in the NI public service, loads of it.

Do you not realise NI is being ripped off compared to England?

If your concern is not being ripped off, go to England. If you don't, it's Me Feinism and you know where that got us before?

lmimmfn

Koloman wrote: »

A lot of the cars in the NI shopping centres don't suggest "the poor man" to me!

A lot of higher end public sector workers i would suggest!

reminds me of the article in the times yesterday on the conspiracy of the government to effectively divide and conquer. Rather than have everyone on the streets protesting thet eased the brunt of the budget by saying it would be really bad, it was bad but not insanely bad. On top of that they didnt impose any worthwhile reductions on social welfare and no wage reductions on public sector workers.

Effectively they've split the population to hate one another rather than get together and start picketing on the street on the disgrace of a budget theyve implemented that does nothing to sort the current hemmoraging of jobs.

- Lower class hates those on social welfare because they were only slightly impacted yet lower class on low wages are now taxed.
- Private working middle class hate those in public sector because they've got job security and havnt been impacted, they also percieve those on social as getting off pretty much without a dent.
- Public Sector earners hate private sector earners because they perceive we're getting a better deal because of the pension levy.
- PAYE contributors with familys are pissed at the social guys for getting away because unmarried couples can make a fortune off the social yet they probably are working but getting a lower lifestyle that an unmarried couple on the dole( posing as unmarried mother )
- The rich that actually pay taxes are pissed at everyone because they're now being mega taxed, yet we'll probably lose them all because they'll skip country and find a job elsewhere

I probably got the above wrong in places, and i dont mean to offent anyone, but you have to commend the government on getting us all to have problems with others.

K-9

lmimmfn wrote: »

reminds me of the article in the times yesterday on the conspiracy of the government to effectively divide and conquer. Rather than have everyone on the streets protesting thet eased the brunt of the budget by saying it would be really bad, it was bad but not insanely bad. On top of that they didnt impose any worthwhile reductions on social welfare and no wage reductions on public sector workers.

Effectively they've split the population to hate one another rather than get together and start picketing on the street on the disgrace of a budget theyve implemented that does nothing to sort the current hemmoraging of jobs.

- Lower class hates those on social welfare because they were only slightly impacted yet lower class on low wages are now taxed.
- Private working middle class hate those in public sector because they've got job security and havnt been impacted, they also percieve those on social as getting off pretty much without a dent.
- Public Sector earners hate private sector earners because they perceive we're getting a better deal because of the pension levy.
- PAYE contributors with familys are pissed at the social guys for getting away because unmarried couples can make a fortune off the social yet they probably are working but getting a lower lifestyle that an unmarried couple on the dole( posing as unmarried mother )
- The rich that actually pay taxes are pissed at everyone because they're now being mega taxed, yet we'll probably lose them all because they'll skip country and find a job elsewhere

I probably got the above wrong in places, and i dont mean to offent anyone, but you have to commend the government on getting us all to have problems with others.

You could say that, I hate Me Feinism, hated it during the bubble, hate it now.

dresden8

Koloman wrote: »

A lot of the cars in the NI shopping centres don't suggest "the poor man" to me!

A lot of higher end public sector workers i would suggest!

Jeez, next thing the public sector will be blamed for eating all the swans and taking all our wimmin!

lmimmfn

K-9 wrote: »

You could say that, I hate Me Feinism, hated it during the bubble, hate it now.

i totally agree, unfortunately i think we'll all become Me Feiners when we dont have enough money or even just have enough to get by after a few more budgets. Sad state of affairs in any country.

Bottom line is we all have to live, the cash that each of us has to pay due to the new taxes imposed has to come from somewhere and currently the only option with the least implications to the individual or individuals family are to shop up north. The government had a chance to do something about it and they failed like everything else they do( i.e. what fecking business runs on a get more revenue in when things are bad rather than cutting expenditure and costs??? ).

I feel 0 guilt and neither should anyone else feel any guilt by saving cash where possible.

gurramok

Koloman wrote: »

A lot of the cars in the NI shopping centres don't suggest "the poor man" to me!

A lot of higher end public sector workers i would suggest!

How do you know? All sorts of cars from all sorts of years do be there.

Point being, grocery shoppers are normally those that are feeling the pinch unlike the US shoppers.
A person with a high disposable income couldn't care less about saving a few pence on a grocery item, a working person does.

lmimmfn wrote: »

may make that upper middle class types, im middle class, but i never once in my life went on any stupid shopping trip, ive also throughout the boom years never ever experienced any improvement in my lifestyle, ive never spent lavishly, i never bought property in the boom years, so throw me in with the 'unpatriotic' type thats shopping up north because im trying at least to have some form of disposible income after the tax hikes because im getting married this year.

Exactly, survival. Where was all the bitching and moaning about US shopping?

You're trying to survive and we have posters here blasting out about 'Buy Irish' to support high costs here.

God help unemployed people surviving on buying Irish!

K-9 wrote: »

There will always be waste.

Hell, there's waste in the NI public service, loads of it.

Do you not realise NI is being ripped off compared to England?

If your concern is not being ripped off, go to England. If you don't, it's Me Feinism and you know where that got us before?

Huh? So what if there is waste in NI public service or they are getting ripped of themselves, that is none of my concern.
My concern is like tens of thousands like me is my disposable income who want value for our euro's and it just so happens there is a border 60miles up the road to help our euro stretch longer.

Retails needs a serious correction down here and its about time it happens.

lmimmfn wrote: »

i totally agree, unfortunately i think we'll all become Me Feiners when we dont have enough money or even just have enough to get by after a few more budgets. Sad state of affairs in any country.

Precisely, survival for oneself is number one in a recession.

K-9

lmimmfn wrote: »

i totally agree, unfortunately i think we'll all become Me Feiners when we dont have enough money or even just have enough to get by after a few more budgets. Sad state of affairs in any country.

Eventually, most will not have the money to get to the North. Impossible? The 80's isn't that long ago and the more people say it will never be like that, the more we seem to get closer! "Sure Ireland is different" "Us shopping in in the North will be different to the 80's!"

gurramok wrote: »

Huh? So what if there is waste in NI public service or they are getting ripped of themselves, that is none of my concern.
My concern is like tens of thousands like me is my disposable income who want value for our euro's and it just so happens there is a border 60miles up the road to help our euro stretch longer.

Retails needs a serious correction down here and its about time it happens.



Precisely, survival for oneself is number one in a recession.

Exactly it isn't your concern, so don't moan about tax increases and SW cuts when they come and they will come. "Nothing to do with me, No sirree!"

"Sure Ireland is different" Comforting, isn't it?

lmimmfn

gurramok wrote: »

You're trying to survive and we have posters here blasting out about 'Buy Irish' to support high costs here.

God help unemployed people surviving on buying Irish!

+1 on that mate, how the feck are we going to get prices of things reduced here( and the cost base here ) if we keep contributing to the still existent greed here and the attitude of the retailers of ripping the next man off as much as you can prevails even in these turbulent times. The poor sods who have been recently made redundant and are on the dole can only rely on us to drive the prices down by indirectly forcing competition with those in the north.

The nonsense of 'Buy Irish' here is ridicules, fine buy irish if you can afford to, but leave the rest of us to survive how we can!!!!

K-9 wrote: »

Eventually, most will not have the money to get to the North. Impossible? The 80's isn't that long ago and the more people say it will never be like that, the more we seem to get closer! "Sure Ireland is different" "Us shopping in in the North will be different to the 80's!"
/QUOTE]
My family only got by in the 80's by doing our shopping in Strabane, this is no different. The current situation is actually worse than the 80's, a lot of the impacts then were due to the the recession in the UK, reducing both our income and employment opportunities. However we have the exact same situation( coupled with financial crisis affecting every single industry ) and we no longer have the opportunity to deflate our currency to increase exports to get out of this recession, hence we're up s**t creek.

Koloman

There is a famous episode of Fawlty Towers when Mr O'Reilly the builder says to Basil, "there is always someone worse off than yourself" to which Basil replies, "well I'd like to meet him because I could do with a good laugh!" He might of been referring to some of the posters on this forum when he said that!

Look, things will probably get worse before they get better but this recession will eventually pass, but we have been here before and we got through that. Jesus, even Eddie Hobbs said there were small signs of recovery in the global economy (so it must be true if Eddie said it!) so we must be ready to capitalise on that when it comes.

K-9

Koloman wrote: »

There is a famous episode of Fawlty Towers when Mr O'Reilly the builder says to Basil, "there is always someone worse off than yourself" to which Basil replies, "well I'd like to meet him because I could do with a good laugh!" He might of been referring to some of the posters on this forum when he said that!

Look, things will probably get worse before they get better but this recession will eventually pass, but we have been here before and we got through that. Jesus, even Eddie Hobbs said there were small signs of recovery in the global economy (so it must be true if Eddie said it!) so we must be ready to capitalise on that when it comes.

YEP, sure Eddie had his property scheme in Bulgaria or wherever it was.

K-9

lmimmfn wrote: »

K-9 wrote: »

Eventually, most will not have the money to get to the North. Impossible? The 80's isn't that long ago and the more people say it will never be like that, the more we seem to get closer! "Sure Ireland is different" "Us shopping in in the North will be different to the 80's!"
/QUOTE]
My family only got by in the 80's by doing our shopping in Strabane, this is no different. The current situation is actually worse than the 80's, a lot of the impacts then were due to the the recession in the UK, reducing both our income and employment opportunities. However we have the exact same situation( coupled with financial crisis affecting every single industry ) and we no longer have the opportunity to deflate our currency to increase exports to get out of this recession, hence we're up s**t creek.

Where'd they live, they on the dole, was Strabane convenient as in Dublin?

gurramok

K-9 wrote: »

Exactly it isn't your concern, so don't moan about tax increases and SW cuts when they come and they will come. "Nothing to do with me, No sirree!"

You got the wrong end of the stick there. What happens in this country is of my concern as a taxpayer. The govt need to cut back on that €50bn+ expenditure.

'Overseas' shopping is just a small problem of the overall economy, if we all shopped at home it would not come even close to plug the deficit or sustain the amount of jobs needed as guess what, only about 200,000 work in retail and we have hardly any manufacturing base

Tell the unemployed man he should shop at home forking out 50%+ price differences so an overpaid public servant can continue their better than average lifestyle.

Guess you will want to bar internet shopping as well, no siree!

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

You got the wrong end of the stick there. What happens in this country is of my concern as a taxpayer. The govt need to cut back on that €50bn+ expenditure.

'Overseas' shopping is just a small problem of the overall economy, if we all shopped at home it would not come even close to plug the deficit or sustain the amount of jobs needed as guess what, only about 200,000 work in retail and we have hardly any manufacturing base

Tell the unemployed man he should shop at home forking out 50%+ price differences so an overpaid public servant can continue their better than average lifestyle.

Guess you will want to bar internet shopping as well, no siree!

So basically, it's somebody elses problem?

ntlbell

Koloman wrote: »

A lot of the cars in the NI shopping centres don't suggest "the poor man" to me!

A lot of higher end public sector workers i would suggest!

the big debt they have to own such a car is probably part of the reason they're "the poor wo(man)"

gurramok

K-9 wrote: »

So basically, it's somebody elses problem?

The govt?

What you getting at? Say what you're going to say.

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

The govt?

What you getting at? Say what you're going to say.

Jaysus, it isn't crytic.

It's funny you can see the Public Sector problem but yet not the problem of spending outside the state, "Sure, it's only a small problem".

gerbilgranny

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Every penny a person spends up North costs our economy dearly. Which means it costs the spender money.

It's impossible to justify on a macro scale, but at the end of the day, everyone can justify it to themselves at an individual level.

Every weekday, ladies who maybe don't lunch - but who do a weekly shop in Belfast - get on the DART having travelled back on the Enterprise. These elderly ladies have suitcases-on-wheels packed with their purchases. I've heard them chatting on the DART - they are so au fait with things up North, that they advise each other 'if you go into that café, and the manager is on the till, it'll cost you an extra 30p. The girls only charge £1.50 for the sandwich, but the manager charges £1.80!'

It does somewhat amuse me that our government transports these ladies to and from their shopping destination of choice, free of charge, thanks to the free travel pass.

gurramok

K-9 wrote: »

Jaysus, it isn't crytic.

It's funny you can see the Public Sector problem but yet not the problem of spending outside the state, "Sure, it's only a small problem".

Err, spending in NI according to a recent report will cost €700m. Contrast that to the €21bn cost of the public sector.

Now, are you saying we should buy Irish only within ROI and not shop there?

Go on, state your position.

lmimmfn

K-9 wrote: »

lmimmfn wrote: »

Where'd they live, they on the dole, was Strabane convenient as in Dublin?

yep, short hop from donegal.

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

Err, spending in NI according to a recent report will cost €700m. Contrast that to the €21bn cost of the public sector.

Now, are you saying we should buy Irish only within ROI and not shop there?

Go on, state your position.

So the €700 Million isn't really that important?

I wouldn't say to anybody not to shop anywhere, free will and all that, but I believe in responsibility too. As to my position, I think it should be clear by now.

We are spending similar on SW as the Public Sector too.

gurramok

K-9 wrote: »

So the €700 Million isn't really that important?

I wouldn't say to anybody not to shop anywhere, free will and all that, but I believe in responsibility too. As to my position, I think it should be clear by now.

We are spending similar on SW as the Public Sector too.

You're still on the fence!

Yes, cut SW and public sector, both are overinflated. Shopping abroad is only a small part of the problem, simple maths.

If you have no problem with people shopping in NI, US or the internet, then why criticise their decisions with a 'responsibility' tag?

ntlbell

K-9 wrote: »

So the €700 Million isn't really that important?

I wouldn't say to anybody not to shop anywhere, free will and all that, but I believe in responsibility too. As to my position, I think it should be clear by now.

We are spending similar on SW as the Public Sector too.

On one hand you have BL saying be patriotic, shop at home.

with his other hand he hikes up VAT.

then he says it was a mistake.

then after admitting he made the mistake refuses to drop it.

But lets all just harp on about the unpatriotic bafoons trying to find a bit of value so they can feed their kids and get by week to week.

come off it.

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

You're still on the fence!

Yes, cut SW and public sector, both are overinflated. Shopping abroad is only a small part of the problem, simple maths.

If you have no problem with people shopping in NI, US or the internet, then why criticise their decisions with a 'responsibility' tag?

Because if somebody does something freely, of free mind, they also shouldn't absolve themselves of the consequences, even if it's only €700 Million!

ntlbell wrote: »

On one hand you have BL saying be patriotic, shop at home.

with his other hand he hikes up VAT.

then he says it was a mistake.

then after admitting he made the mistake refuses to drop it.

But lets all just harp on about the unpatriotic bafoons trying to find a bit of value so they can feed their kids and get by week to week.

come off it.

Sure it cost less than €700 Million. :cool:

Not sure about this reducing VAT thing. It didn't really work in the UK. People are more worried about more important things than a couple of % in VAT.