No decrease in Social Welfare Payments?

The Corinthian

Heineken Helen wrote: »

I don't buy that... if I don't do my job, can I just say to my boss 'well you were stupid for employing me?' or anybody who HAS squandered plenty of money in their job has been held personally responsible, either by losing their job or been prosecuted or punished in some way.

Well, yes they were either stupid or deceived and they should fire you. Instead, we extended their contract. Repeatedly.

To be honest, I AM surprised the dole wasn't reduced... even 5euro would have saved them a couple of million a WEEK or have I just completely miscalculated that?:D And if anybody truly believes that they cannot survive without that 5euro they will have access to somebody who can help them.

Way I see it is PAYE workers are not going to vote for them anyway, so it's in their interests to keep the Dolies sweet.

ScarletO'Hara

Stevecw wrote: »

Everything you say is so true Helen! I've had 3 jobs in my career so far, 2 i liked, 1 i hated ...but right now i'd even take that job i hated again if they offered it to me on reduced wages. Thats how bad i feel about my situation right now.
I find it almost impossible to remain positive as i can see there is no chance of finding a job soon.
I hate being at home with parents at my age...but fair play to them they understand are are doing their best.
I hate to admit it, but i've cried a few nights recently just thinking about how bad things have become. At times i feel like the me of a year or 2 ago...that happy guy who enjoyed life and things were going great for was someone else!
Anyway enough public crying here! I guess i am gone a bit off topic now.

I'd like to get your reply by pm if possible

I apologise to anyone I have upset or offended with my comments. They were specific to Sillysausage's comments, mainly in respect that he was admitting he wasn't motivated to look for work becuase he was happy enough with his dole. (on it for 12 mths) I am beginning to think he is not genuine and just being provocotive. I do know how difficult it is and genuinely hope everyone manages to get through this horrible time.

Hungrycol

sunnyside wrote: »

Local elections in June. The unemployed people will be at home to answer the door to the canidates so they wouldn't want the unemployed to be getting too upset just yet.

Bingo. It's all about elections poeple. They are all still politicians at the end of the day and their primary goal is all about winning the next vote. Think about the huge unemployed vote that have free time to vote on election day.

SeanW

easyeason3 wrote: »

Dole probably seems a lot of money to some people right now but in reality it doesn't go that far. Coming from earning a fairly decent salary, and paying tax on that I might add, it has been a major kick in the ass to reign myself in to live on €204 a week considering I have a car loan to keep up with, trying my best to sell the car but like everything at the moment it's a slow process.

If you and your employer paid PRSI, aren't you eligable for Jobseekers Benefit?

Quartet

Hivemind187 wrote: »

With the greatest respect - you haven't a clue what you are talking about.... There are hundreds of thousands now on the dole or unemployed - none of whom prefer their situation to having a job but unfortunately, ...

Errrhh Hivemind See Below - there are plenty of people on the dole who prefer the situation to having a job

sillysasauge wrote: »

The dole money is far too comfortable, i'm not gonna give it up to do a minimum wage job, i spend all my spare time doing things i didnt have time to do when i did have a job. I love it to be honest, im spending all my time doing things i like and learning stuff i always wanted to learn and still having the same social life i did before. I would only stop for a job i am genuinely interested in at this stage.
!!

We have some of the highest rates of Social Welfare benefits in Europe
Its not just the flat payments its all the additional eg Medical Cards, Qualified Adult + Child payments, Rent Allowance etc

What I get paid after taxes is just a few quid higher than that I would get on the dole...Why do I bother?

Because I'm not going to sit on my as** and get somebody else to pay for me....

aare

Heineken Helen wrote: »

To be honest, I AM surprised the dole wasn't reduced... even 5euro would have saved them a couple of million a WEEK or have I just completely miscalculated that?:D

I have no problem with that at all, and would prefer it to sneaky, unequal backdoor cuts through the rent supplement scheme that will cost some people far more (in direct relation to their genuine vulnerability), and, overall, yield far less.

Heineken Helen wrote: »

And if anybody truly believes that they cannot survive without that 5euro they will have access to somebody who can help them.

Unfortunately, for a lot of people that "access to somebody who can help them" in times of trouble is up there with "fairies, garden, bottom of", so don't count on it...

easyeason3

SeanW wrote: »

If you and your employer paid PRSI, aren't you eligable for Jobseekers Benefit?

Apparently they are working off the tax year of '05 I think, I can't be hundred percent sure to be honest. I did ask but the lady I was dealing with had a queue out the door & had just got verbally attacked for no reason so it wasn't the time to go into it.

Let's just say that one of my employers was a complete dodge, I'm trying to be polite. I looked for a pension , he told me no despite the fact that it's completely illegal, tea breaks were considered a rumour & nothing more, health & safety would have probably thought they were in calcutta if they went beyond the first door, the list goes on. So I wouldn't be surprised if he messed it up someway, before I left I rang the accountant & asked him one or two things & he basically laughed down the phone because he knew what Mr Boss Man was like.

Anyway I hear the tax man is after him now as well as a lot of suppliers

aare

ScarletO'Hara wrote: »

I apologise to anyone I have upset or offended with my comments. They were specific to Sillysausage's comments, mainly in respect that he was admitting he wasn't motivated to look for work becuase he was happy enough with his dole. (on it for 12 mths) I am beginning to think he is not genuine and just being provocotive. I do know how difficult it is and genuinely hope everyone manages to get through this horrible time.

Scarlet, I think there are a few people stirring things up on all sides here and I wholeheartedly second that emotion...

Demonique

foxy06 wrote: »

My brother is 25 never had a job in his life (so nothing to do with this recession then) and gets 200 quid a week despite living at home and having everything handed to him. Fair play for cutting the dole for under 20's but they should means test the dole for people living at home with no expenses. He has a 40 inch flat screen tv he bought with his back dated Dole money for gods sake!!! They really don't hit the people who don't need it.

Why don't you report him then?

david_the_great

i have a friend on single parents allowance, her beleif is that if the taxpayer has to chip in, then benefits should be cut too- i know they dont get that much but they do get some luxury sometimes! dont mean to sound liek a ff but its still not fair for the taxpayer to fork out billions to bail a government which pays the non tax payer

aare

david_the_great wrote: »

i have a friend on single parents allowance, her beleif is that if the taxpayer has to chip in, then benefits should be cut too- i know they dont get that much but they do get some luxury sometimes! dont mean to sound liek a ff but its still not fair for the taxpayer to fork out billions to bail a government which pays the non tax payer

I think a lot of people feel that way...but not when people are scapegoating and attacking them...why should they care about people who choose to treat them so badly and claim to want to see them treated even worse?

irish_bob

Hungrycol wrote: »

Bingo. It's all about elections poeple. They are all still politicians at the end of the day and their primary goal is all about winning the next vote. Think about the huge unemployed vote that have free time to vote on election day.

good ol fianna fail , party before country

read an interesting letter to the editor in a newspaper in the past week or so , the letter writer was from county monaghan , it went a little something like this

how come if an umemployed person in neighbouring tyrone can survive on 65 pounds shopping each week in eniskillen , an unemployed person in castleblaney cannot survive on 204 euro a week shopping in ( ENISKILLEN)

aare

irish_bob wrote: »

how come if an umemployed person in neighbouring tyrone can survive on 65 pounds shopping each week in eniskillen , an unemployed person in castleblaney cannot survive on 204 euro a week shopping in ( ENISKILLEN)

And just how is an unemployed person in Cork going to manage to shop in Ennikillen?

Quartet

irish_bob wrote: »

...how come if an umemployed person in neighbouring tyrone can survive on 65 pounds shopping each week in eniskillen , an unemployed person in castleblaney cannot survive on 204 euro a week shopping in ( ENISKILLEN)

Ireland has some of the highest rates of Social Welfare in Europe and it shows.


The euro currently is worth 0.9044 sterling

A unemployed person in the North is only getting €71.87 welfare payment equivilant -thats €133 euro per week less in the amount of basic social welfare between on the two sides of the border.

Whilst groceries in the South are generaly more expensive, other items like fuel are cheaper

Having lived in the North I can state that many other day to day living costs work out about the same.

Facts not Dramatics

alegrabaroque

Jah Luff wrote: »

I am 19 I have a car and a baby what am i supposed to do with 100 euro? whipe my ass? cuz thats about all its guna be good for?

Yeah I`ve met alot of single mothers the last few years and yes they do seem to be of the opinion that they can afford to wipe their asses with €100. I`ve heard some of them boast about throwing the coppers out of their purse in the last few years.
Would you have "accidentally" got pregnant if you had to be responsible for your actions? We could all have "accidents". I`m 28 and I would love a baby. I`m married. I lost my job last year and had to go back to college to try to make sure that I`m employable so I can provide for a child. There is no excuse. And now if theres cuts these irresponsible mothers will be protected under our constitution and feck people who tried to be responsible and do things right! Wheres the incentive to do the right thing?! We`re turning into a nation of thugs where people have to be afraid on the street. These people should be discourage from having these children who turn into very angry young people who go out and hurt other people. Less money for single mothers equals a sharp drop in pregnancy.

turgon

alegrabaroque wrote: »

Wheres the incentive to do the right thing?!

True.

When it comes to social welfare one has to strike a balance between helping people out - by providing enough welfare - and discouraging spongers.

I was taking to a guy who was on the dole, rent allowance etc and still working for €240 a year. EVERYTHING should be means tested. Even child benefit.

aare

Quartet wrote: »

A unemployed person in the North is only getting €71.87 welfare payment equivilant -thats €133 euro per week less in the amount of basic social welfare between on the two sides of the border.

That is simply untrue, as the person in the north does not have to pay any contribution to rent, so they are, in fact getting €96.87 equivalent (even before you factor in the arbitrary 8% decrease in rent allowance for anyone unable to bully their landlord, which could mean another €8-16 pw), automatic full medical and dental cover on the NHS, and whatever they were when you lived in the North, two weeks ago, prices of most grocery staples were, £ to €, often half the price they are here, and even as little as a third. Clothing and household goods go far lower, and prices on the uk mainland are less again.

Misrepresenting facts doesn't make it ok to scapegoat people either.

aare

alegrabaroque wrote: »

Less money for single mothers equals a sharp drop in pregnancy.

Force innocent kids deeper into a poverty trap as a means of contraception?

That'll work.
:rolleyes:

(Actually I am disgusted anyone can even pretend that one is ok.)

alegrabaroque

aare wrote: »

Force innocent kids deeper into a poverty trap as a means of contraception?

That'll work.
:rolleyes:

(Actually I am disgusted anyone can even pretend that one is ok.)

Ever heard of tough love? The same children aren`t receiving the money anyway there parents are drinking and smoking it (I understand not all but the staticics show the majority unfortunetely). Your right we`ll encourage them to have 10 more that they don`t look after properly and when the stab/shoot/beat your child or someone else you love to death your bleeding heart will bring them back!

gcgirl

alegrabaroque wrote: »

Yeah I`ve met alot of single mothers the last few years and yes they do seem to be of the opinion that they can afford to wipe their asses with €100. I`ve heard some of them boast about throwing the coppers out of their purse in the last few years.
Would you have "accidentally" got pregnant if you had to be responsible for your actions? We could all have "accidents". I`m 28 and I would love a baby. I`m married. I lost my job last year and had to go back to college to try to make sure that I`m employable so I can provide for a child. There is no excuse. And now if theres cuts these irresponsible mothers will be protected under our constitution and feck people who tried to be responsible and do things right! Wheres the incentive to do the right thing?! We`re turning into a nation of thugs where people have to be afraid on the street. These people should be discourage from having these children who turn into very angry young people who go out and hurt other people. Less money for single mothers equals a sharp drop in pregnancy.

There are some that have been put in that postion by their ex partners who dont pay a penny towards their kids Which happens to be my story My ex would rather provide for his lazy jobless self centered GF than his kids but i still have to get on with it!!

aare

alegrabaroque wrote: »

Ever heard of tough love?

Don't make me laugh!

Anybody heckling, and scapegoating, from the perspective you have chosen wouldn't know "love" of any kind if it jumped up and bit them...wearing a clearly printed label...

alegrabaroque wrote: »

The same children aren`t receiving the money anyway there parents are drinking and smoking it (I understand not all but the staticics show the majority unfortunetely). Your right we`ll encourage them to have 10 more that they don`t look after properly and when the stab/shoot/beat your child or someone else you love to death your bleeding heart will bring them back!

Funny, you seem to know a lot of single mothers socially (well, either that, or you are just making things up)?

turgon

aare wrote: »

Funny, you seem to know a lot of single mothers socially (well, either that, or you are just making things up)?

Well 76,000 kid living in poverty, thats 1 in 9.

http://www.barnardos.ie/

aare

turgon wrote: »

Well 76,000 kid living in poverty, thats 1 in 9.

http://www.barnardos.ie/

Well don't worry...put in enough time and effort and I am SURE you can get those numbers up...

gcgirl

turgon wrote: »

Well 76,000 kid living in poverty, thats 1 in 9.

http://www.barnardos.ie/

It still is 76,000 kids too much!

KittyeeTrix

I don't know what has happened to people of late.....
It seems to be open season on everyone unless they have a job and no kids......
Pretty soon there will be calls for state euthanasia to be rid of the elderly who cost the health service millions....
Calls for sterilisation for all teenagers living in disadvantaged areas who will only be producing more kids for the state to provide for.....
Jeez, if we have already calls for third world aid to be scrapped what's to stop people from looking for the above to be introduced....
This country seems to have lost it's sense of compassion in the face of adversity.
I find that very sad and to be honest am dismayed to be Irish at the moment

gcgirl

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I don't know what has happened to people of late.....
It seems to be open season on everyone unless they have a job and no kids......
Pretty soon there will be calls for state euthanasia to be rid of the elderly who cost the health service millions....
Calls for sterilisation for all teenagers living in disadvantaged areas who will only be producing more kids for the state to provide for.....
Jeez, if we have already calls for third world aid to be scrapped what's to stop people from looking for the above to be introduced....
This country seems to have lost it's sense of compassion in the face of adversity.
I find that very sad and to be honest am dismayed to be Irish at the moment

Greed has got to people !

aare

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I don't know what has happened to people of late.....
It seems to be open season on everyone unless they have a job and no kids......
Pretty soon there will be calls for state euthanasia to be rid of the elderly who cost the health service millions....
Calls for sterilisation for all teenagers living in disadvantaged areas who will only be producing more kids for the state to provide for.....
Jeez, if we have already calls for third world aid to be scrapped what's to stop people from looking for the above to be introduced....
This country seems to have lost it's sense of compassion in the face of adversity.
I find that very sad and to be honest am dismayed to be Irish at the moment

Too right...

I can't help wondering what ON EARTH they think happens to people when you take away their means of survival?

Or is it just about trying to demand the power to hurt someone else in the hope that it will make them feel less afraid?

"Don't hurt me, hurt him" thinking?

So brave...

Quartet

aare wrote: »

That is simply untrue, as the person in the north does not have to pay any contribution to rent, so they are, in fact getting €96.87 equivalent (even before you factor in the arbitrary 8% decrease in rent allowance for anyone unable to bully their landlord, which could mean another €8-16 pw), automatic full medical and dental cover on the NHS, and whatever they were when you lived in the North, two weeks ago, prices of most grocery staples were, £ to €, often half the price they are here, and even as little as a third. Clothing and household goods go far lower, and prices on the uk mainland are less again.

Misrepresenting facts doesn't make it ok to scapegoat people either.

Wrong and factualy incorrect Im afraid. Its good to try and stick to facts and not make figures up eg €96.87!
From www.nihe.gov.uk

How do I qualify for Housing Benefit?To qualify for Housing Benefit you must have a responsibility to pay rent and/or rates for a property that you occupy as your main home. If this is the case, we will then compare your incomes with the amount that the government says you need to live on to decide how much Housing Benefit you may be entitled to.
If you receive Income Support or Income Based Job Seekers Allowance or Guaranteed Pension Credit you will get maximum Housing Benefit. This may be less than you are charged if your rent is considered to be too high or your home is under-occupied.
Also, you may not receive maximum Housing Benefit if you have someone over 18 living with you. For all other cases we will make an individual calculation.

And for the new UK Housing Allowance for private rented accommodation -

We will publish LHA rates on this website. This will allow you to find out the maximum amount of rent that we will use to work out Housing Benefit. If you are looking for accommodation in Northern Ireland, you will be able to see the LHA rate that will apply to you before you decide to rent a property.
The rate of LHA we will use to work out your Housing Benefit will depend on:

• the area you live in – this will set the BRMA you fall under; and
• who lives with you – this will decide how many bedrooms you need.

You will be entitled to one bedroom for:

• every adult couple;
• every other adult (an adult is someone aged 16 or over);
• any two children aged under 10;
• any two children of the same sex aged 10 to 15; and
• any other child.

We will not count other rooms, such as living rooms, kitchens and bathrooms
If your rent is lower than your rate of LHA, you may receive up to £15 of the difference a week. If you decide to move into a property with a rent that is higher than your rate of LHA, you will need to pay the difference.

The conditions pertaining to Social Welfare in NI are much much stricter than in the South.

Welfare rates are less and follow ups in terms of checking on people actively seeking work much more rigorous

Dont forget Medical Crads here and all the other ancillary benefits

No Scapegoats here....;)

aare

Quartet wrote: »

No Scapegoats here....;)

As usual, plenty of scapegoating and distortion and no actual facts.

All you have shown is that the UK sets clearly defined limits on the amount of rent you may claim. The only difference being that they tell you how they are going to work that out:

Let's link the actual page, not quote "selected excerpts":
http://www.nihe.gov.uk/index/yh-home/renting_privately/local_housing_allowance-2.htm

• If your rent is over the LHA limit you will be expected to pay the difference (same as here)
• If your rent is within the LHA limit every penny of it will be paid
• If your rent is well below the LHA limit you will be PAID (not charged) an additional half of the difference, up to £15 pw

So that give you a potential equivalent not of €96.87 but rather of something in the region of €113 (even before you factor in the arbitrary 8% decrease in rent allowance for anyone unable to bully their landlord, which could mean another €8-16 pw)...

So that, anyone in the North of Ireland who is capable of bullying their landlord, can claim the equivalent of €130 a week to spend on goods that are between 1/3 and 1/2 of what they are here...

Now Quartet...I have a couple of questions that I KNOW our viewers are longing to ask you...

• What do you enjoy MOST about making a vulnerable person more frightened and desperate?
• What is it about supporting and encouraging those weaker and worse off than yourself that distresses you so much?

turgon

I dont see how my quoting a stat and linking to the Barnardos website could be interpreted as anything other than support for those wishing to keep social welfare.

The point is that social welfare should never be a one-size-fits-all payment.

I went into the dole office over a month ago, and should I have completed signing on (I got a job since, but alas got fired since too), I would be getting 200 Euro a week. Which I would spend on a) saving to go on holiday in August and b) drinking. Yet someone else living out of home gets the same??

Maybe some social welfare payments, such as dole, should be downsized and replaced with food vouchers?