Budget 2009 - Yes or No?

Red Crow

RT&#201 wrote:

• Income levy rates doubled to 2%, 4% and 6%.
  
  
• Cigarettes up 25 cent and diesel up five cent a litre.
  
  
• New asset management agency to take bad loans off the banks' balance sheets.
  
  
• Early childcare supplement halved from 1 May, and scrapped altogether next year.
  
  
• No increases in social welfare for the next couple of years, rates may be reviewed later.
  
  
• The ceiling for employee PRSI will rise from €52,000 to €75,000.
  
  
• New scheme to allow civil servants over the age of 50 to retire.
  
  
• Income levy thresholds lowered, with the 2% rate at €15,000, 4% at €75,000 and 6% at €175,000.
  
  
• DIRT will go up from 23% to 25%. The levy on non-life insurance premiums rises from 2% to 3%.
  
  
• Capital Gains Tax and Capital Acquisitions Tax will both rise from 22% to 25%.
  
  
• Christmas welfare bonus will not be paid this year, while those under 20 will have their dole payments halved.
  
  
• A 10% cut in political expenses, while long-term payments to TDs will be abolished.
  
  
• Health Levy rates will double to 4% and 5%. The entry point for the higher rate will be reduced to €1,443 per week which is €75,036 per annum.
  
  
• Commission on Taxation will decide on how to raise further money from taxing or means testing child benefit.
  
  
• A national infrastructure bond to be looked at to raise money for capital projects.
  
  
• Ceiling for employee PRSI to rise from €52,000 to €75,000.
  
  
• Enterprise Stabilisation Fund to be set up to help protect jobs in troubled businesses.
  
  
• Stamp Duty trading scheme to be introduced.
  
  
• A review of top-level public sector pay rates.
  
  
• Petrol and alcohol duties will not go up.
  
  
• Mortgage interest relief will now only be available for the first seven years on principal private residences.

Link



What are your opinions on the budget?

Do you think this is a fair budget?

How will this budget affect you?

Will this budget get credit moving?

Is this an equity release?

nats2k7

what about under 20s living alone how will they savive they havent gave enough details on this im 19 and im outon sick pay due to a bad acdient will this effect my pay? and what about under20s single arents dat are geting the what people on the dole get plus 335 euro for the child shouldnt they be cut to??? i always tought job seekers alounce and the dole were two diffrent things???

xOxSinéadxOx

No. They're taxing the **** out of everything and they're not doing anything to get the economy going. I think we're just going to fall further and further

nats2k7

they should have explaind this thing more!! on a fas course you get 50 euro more then the dole thaat will probaly be cut the 100 euro two and thewaiting listis unreal you would be 20 by the time you get on it i cant savive now imagin how i will be then what about all these payments to un-nationals they dident cut them any thing not bein racest but we cant afford to keep the blacks here any more and yet irish under 20s have to suffer for them to stay they shud be striped off there jobs and shot

thebaldsoprano

Kurtza wrote: »

Do you think this is a fair budget?

GF on the minimum wage gets bought into the tax net while JP McManus co laugh all the way to the ehm, bank... That would have to be a no.

No tax no passport sunshine.

K-9

I suppose if we had the definition of a fair budget it would help.

SW lose the Xmas bonus, 1/52 of their income, miniimum wage pays 2%, Other levies get increases of 3-5/6% depending on income. I think they spread that around as much as possible.

The ECS cut is tough on families depending on it, unfortunately this was the fudge on not giving a tax credit instead of making it universal, coming back to bite the Govt.

Haven't seen enough on the Enterprise fund or the bad loan buy out. I can see why they are doing it, but who'll pay for it?

nats2k7

is it all social welfare payments for those under 20 or just the dole?

aare

Barring some finer details that need tweaking to save individuals slipping between the stools, it actually seems a fair enough budget to me...

I don't think it would have been a good idea to bring in a motor "scrappage" scheme...that would just stimulate imports...and we don't need those right now.

I think there were missed opportunities in terms of ways to "rationalise" the social welfare system, for example, single mothers, and the disabled, at present, often cannot afford to marry, or cohabit, because, if they do, they will be totally dependent on their partner. If they were, instead, allowed to retain the qualified adult rate on cohabiting, along with child support they would be more likely to do so...thereby saving almost half of their benefit, and all of their rent allowance. Everyone would be better off that way. The savings could, potentially, have been huge and the move would be popular, and enlightened.

There is a lot of dead wood in the public sector, job duplication and people employed to do some variation of digging holes and filling them in again.

I also think all major civil engineering projects that have not progressed beyond the planning stage should be shelved.

But, apart from that, it seems fair enough to me.

aare

nats2k7 wrote: »

what about under 20s living alone how will they savive they havent gave enough details on this im 19 and im outon sick pay due to a bad acdient will this effect my pay? and what about under20s single arents dat are geting the what people on the dole get plus 335 euro for the child shouldnt they be cut to??? i always tought job seekers alounce and the dole were two diffrent things???

Single parents under 20 will NOT be affected, nor (as far as we can tell so far, but it is unclear) anyone already receiving benefits.

There really do need to be provisions in place for exemptions in hardship cases. That is the biggest "tweak" I referred to.

puntosporting

It is so bad its just silly!
Take more money out of our pockets and make no reduction in vat yet expect us to go out and get the economy moving i cant figure that one out at all?

nats2k7

there is alot of them saying diffrent things one said it was for new claims they have realy confused people

K-9

puntosporting wrote: »

It is so bad its just silly!
Take more money out of our pockets and make no reduction in vat yet expect us to go out and get the economy moving i cant figure that one out at all?

We need to get past this short termism that got us into this mess. We will not spend our way of this. The UK tried this and failed.

We need incentives for job creation and help for business start ups, not spending sprees.

aare

nats2k7 wrote: »

there is alot of them saying diffrent things one said it was for new claims they have realy confused people

Here are the exact words:
http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009SupApril09/SummaryofSupplementaryBudgetMeasuresPolicyChanges.html#SocialWelfare

The personal rate of Jobseeker’s Allowance and basic Supplementary Allowance will be reduced for new claimants under 20 years of age to €100 per week from the first week of May 2009. The Qualified Adult rate payable to a Jobseeker’s Allowance/ basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance claimant aged under 20 years will also be €100 per week. These reduced personal and Qualified Adult rates of payment will not apply where a claimant is entitled to an increase for a Qualified Child.

I am just worried in case the "new" part is a misprint (because it doesn't make sense) and I don't want to build anyone's hopes up.

nats2k7

so its for new claimants under 20 years of age ? so that would mean people that are already onit will keep there 204 a week?

aare

nats2k7 wrote: »

so its for new claimants under 20 years of age ? so that would mean people that are already onit will keep there 204 a week?

It's worded that way, but something about the way it was worded in the speech make me reluctant to commit...

It should come out tomorrow, on way or another.

The Irish Times is also reporting it as for "new claimants", so that is looking good.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0407/breaking65.htm

nats2k7

they wouldnt realy be able to take it off people who already have it! this has happend before with disabilty books they wanted to wait will they were 18 instead of 16 to alow kids with disabilys to have them but they couldnt take back what u already had

axer

I think the point of cutting the dole payment to under 20's is to stop them leaving school and starting on the dole with pretty much the intent to stay on it or getting comfortable on it. It should have been set at 25 imo.

I find it funny that people think that Ireland can actually save its economy. We are too small and too effected by other larger countries' economies to really fix out own. Our best bet is to try and muddle through this recession and hope that the larger countries fix the global problem sooner. Thus we have to tax and have spending cuts in order to survive - we just need to learn to be more efficient to work with what we got.

In the meantime we should use this recession as an excuse to fix as much as possible and plug crazy spending holes whilst we have the opportunity (i.e.people will be more ok with belt tightening and improving efficency when they think the country is f'ucked without it).

We should also try and improve out infrastructure in a year or two by getting contracts for cheaper so that we can be ready when the next growth eventually arrives e.g. building schools now instead of cutting back on building them -can get the contracts for cheaper and save money by removing some construction workers from dole queues (not including the income tax on their earnings).

OPENROAD

Personally think this budget was for international eyes rather than an attempt to offer any kind of stimulation to the economy. To show the EU and International investors that we can get our public finances under control. We will see over the coming weeks if the rate at which the Irish govt can borrow is reduced.

The fact that we don't know what exactly is on the way in December means their is still a great deal of uncertainty, a possible carbon tax for business will discourage them from investing until they know for certain what this charge will be and certainly consumers will still put off spending as it now seems certain we will have some form of property tax but again we have no details.

O'Coonassa

My opinions on the budget boil down to the fact that I think the political elite are really shafting us hard on behalf of the banksters and their chums in construction. I think the reason that they are doing this is because the aforementioned groups are the ones who fund the political process throughout the developed world. As a result theirs is the only agenda that will ever be attended to. We are just like cows to be milked and even if we go on marches or vote no to their stupid plans they will just ignore us. I think we need to change and try to see if we can create a functioning democracy.

is_that_so

A necessary evil in my mind. I don't think the cuts go far enough and the only positive I can see are the early retirement and the free preschool schemes. A further negative in my mind is that there really isn't a clear plan that we can make sense of beyond more tax, more cuts next year and then it might be OK.

Money Shot

I think the budget is completely unfair.
According to Prime times figures, a Single person earning 85,000 will be down just over 3,000 a year, while a married couple earning 60,000 with two kids will be down well over 4,000.
There is simply no way that this can be justified - hitting people with kids harder when they obviously have far more expenses just doesn't make sense.

More property related reliefs to stimulate the market - will they ever learn

miralize

The budget could have been much worse. I think were expecting a big kick on the backside from this, but it's basically the most he could do with the resources he had.

The free preschool is a much better alternative. But I agree that the budget wasn't aimed at the Irish people, but more for our EU counterparts.

I wish they would start trying to build the economy, create more jobs by doing the much needed work. Things like our rail service and broadband network drastically need improvement.

And Mr. Lenihan did absolutely nothing positive for the people of Limerick, the people who need it the most.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

voxpop

Money Shot wrote: »

I think the budget is completely unfair.
According to Prime times figures, a Single person earning 85,000 will be down just over 3,000 a year, while a married couple earning 60,000 with two kids will be down well over 4,000.
There is simply no way that this can be justified - hitting people with kids harder when they obviously have far more expenses just doesn't make sense.

exactly - the middle earner once again shoulders the pain and is charged with carrying the country out of debt.

damoz

voxpop wrote: »

exactly - the middle earner once again shoulders the pain and is charged with carrying the country out of debt.

+1

Agree with previous poster too - it is grossly unfair that families are the hardest hit. What happened to the pre-budget notion of "everyone" sharing the pain equally.

voxpop

They tax the arse off them because they dont have a union, they are not inclined to dodge tax and wont complain.

damoz

voxpop wrote: »

They tax the arse off them because they dont have a union, they are not inclined to dodge tax and wont complain.

Agree - children also dont vote ! Maybe families need to take to streets - it worked for the over paid pensioners in this budget !

amacachi

Could they not have taken 10-15 quid off the dole rather than halving it for under 20s? I'd've thought that would save more.

All-in-all I think the dubget was fair-ish. As was said already it is, unfortunately, middle-earners who are getting the brunt of the backlash, which is unfair. Feel sorry for under 20s who left school and were working for a couple of years paying all their tax and lost their job now being told they don't deserve even half of what over 20s get.

mccutchie

The budget of course was a necessary evil, but it needed to be fair and equitable across the board. Hitting families and those less fortunate again is what our current government has done and hit them extremely hard.

This budget won’t stimulate anyone to hire workers in the private sector and more likely act as an incentive for workers on lower money going on the dole as it’s a more attractive alternative.

It’s also creating a complete disincentive to spend as there’s no VAT decrease despite take home pay going down across the board.
What will this do only increase redundancies in the retail sector and thus increase social welfare outgoings

This will all have a negative impact on retail spending and a negative impact on the nations tax take.

We are being run into the ground by a bunch of buffoons who in their reign have contributed to 2/3's of the nations debt.

HQvhs

It's a cop out really. They took the easy option of raising taxes and tweaking spending around the edges. There were no tough decisions made, and there was certainly no long term view.

We needed some decent spending cuts along with intelligent tax increases. Instead we got the worst of both worlds. We're going to be living with the consequences of their cowardice and incompetence for a long time now. If they had taken the tough decisions necessary then it would not have been so bad.

What's more depressing is only FG have even the vaguest hint of an economic plan. Labour are too busy with populist posturing and SF are nowhere to be seen. I don't hold much hope for the near future unfortunately. So much for FF being the party with "economic experience"...

John Mason

TBH, its nowhere near as bad as i thought it was going to be

i am happy enough with it

i do think that a third tax band would have been a good idea but i dont know anything about politics and budgeting

the really good thing from my point of view was the free pre-school places. i got noticiation that my place will be looking after that, so the job is secure enough for now. this is great to hear after they have just made 90 people redundant