Laughin' my head off

randylonghorn

Villain wrote: »

So people thought they were always going to be earning the same wages as 2 years ago and based their decision on that? Well that was the decision they took no-one forced them to buy houses are crazy prices based on crazy salaries, I mean did people actually expect us to be able to keep building 70 odd thousand homes a year did they really think this was going to continue forever?

If so they were very very naïve

Villain wrote: »

People need to be responsible for their actions, that secretary could have rented an apartment and now she wouldn't have a huge debt, the banker didn't kidnap her on the street and force her to sign a mortgage.

People should stop looking for people to blame and accept responsibility for their actions, btw the majority of people also voted for the Government that allowed all this to happen too so no point blaming them

Villain, I agree with you to an extent ... I think a lot of people jumped in at the deep end over the last few years with their hands over their eyes. I have been saying for 5+ years that the bubble would burst, and burst big, and while I normally quite like being right, I take no pleasure from it this time, quite the reverse! The only small satisfaction I have is that I was such a drip on the subject especially in the latter part of that period that a couple of friends who were thinking of diving in had second thoughts, at least partly (so they have told me since) because of my constant nagging!

But I disagree with you completely in your absolution of the bankers etc. from blame in all this.

These are the top financial minds in the country ... at least according to themselves, when they are justifying their obscene salaries.

Yet they never realised what I know from LC Economics (which wasn't even my strong subject) ... that economies go in cycles and that housing / property prices are especially prone to do so?*

Where did these bankers get their degrees from? ... the internet?! And their ethics ... wait, I'll stop myself right there, I can hear the murmur of confusion in banking circles from here!

After all, why should bankers have any ethical doubts about approving large amounts of additional credit which they knew (a) was based on unsustainable valuation of property, and (b) would result in the ordinary citizen, flushed with optimism by their reassurances and those of those other financial whizzkids, the government, getting themselves into hock over their ears, well beyond their ability to pay back with any degree of comfort?

Once the bankers (and I'm using rhyming slang here) were paid their huge salaries and bonuses, and their pensions and golden handshakes were copperfastened, that was all they cared about.

And the heavens forbid that our government, who also pay themselves large salaries on the basis that they know what's good for us, would do anything worthwhile to regulate them ... they preferred to accuse anyone who asked a question or cast a doubt of being a nay-sayer and "talking down" the economy ... sound familiar? ... and implement policies to heat up the housing boom still further, and keep their pals the developers happy.

Many ordinary people made bad decisions, I agree, and they will now pay for them ... but they were facilitated, indeed encouraged, by those in our society who claim to know better and who have a responsibility to protect the financial security and integrity of our economy. Will this latter group now pay for their bad decisions? ... don't make me laugh!

PaulHardwick wrote: »

Listen love, someone owns the home.

Are you saying we should all be a nations of serfs??

Em ... so those families who live in rent-controlled apartments in the heart of NY, Paris and other major cities in Europe especially are serfs?

Serfs with long leases, and nice cars, and foreign holidays, and few financial worries or fears for a downturn in the property market ... hey, where can the rest of us volunteer to be serf?s

Wait ... maybe I'm misunderstanding you ... just for the record, what's your definition of the word "serf"?



* Actually, just found this from the Land Research Trust in the UK in 2005 ... I'm sure he was laughed at and reviled at the time, but he was fairly close to the mark, wasn't he?!

K4t

oppiuy wrote: »

People should stop looking for people to blame and accept responsibility for their actions, btw the majority of people also voted for the Government that allowed all this to happen too so no point blaming them

What about the people who didn't invest in property, who didn't spend beyond their means and who didn't vote or FF in the last general election? There are a lot of these people and they are being hit far, far harder than banks/developers etc. And they're not being bailed out either. These people have been screwed and have every right to blame others.

Villain

randylonghorn wrote: »

But I disagree with you completely in your absolution of the bankers etc. from blame in all this.

The problem as I see it, is the following:

Bankers job was to make the bank and its private shareholders profit and work within the regulations.

The regulations and enforcement were the problem and that blame falls flatly at the feet of the Government that was re-elected for the last 12 years.

Bankers caused the mess I agree but the Government shouldn’t have allowed them that’s what regulation is meant to be about?

PaulHardwick

*Tripper* wrote: »

You have never voted? Your political opinion does not matter.

holly1 wrote: »

I agree 100%,If you dont vote you dont have any right to have an opinion.

Leave your brainwashing behind.

It is the other way around. If you vote for the idiots who then proceed to screw you over, how can you complain, you voted them in after all.

I can complain because I did not give them the authority to rule over me.

If you can't see that, go back to playschool.

PaulHardwick

Villain wrote: »

Bankers caused the mess I agree but the Government shouldn’t have allowed them that’s what regulation is meant to be about?

This is a worldwide problem, did our chaps cause a worldwide problem??

You still seem to think that politicians have some power, they don't have any.

holly1

PaulHardwick wrote: »

Leave your brainwashing behind.

It is the other way around. If you vote for the idiots who then proceed to screw you over, how can you complain, you voted them in after all.

I can complain because I did not give them the authority to rule over me.

If you can't see that, go back to playschool.

:rolleyes:
I dident vote FF,never would never did.
But I did vote and always do,and that gives me the right to an opinion, as you voted(i think)you have a right to criticize also.

hammer1

It's a world wide problem, every country is in the same boat, they all made the same mistakes

PaulHardwick

hammer1 wrote: »

It's a world wide problem, every country is in the same boat, they all made the same mistakes

Have you ever considered the consequences of these mistakes??

I tell you something, if I held up a bank for a few mill and was caught by the cozzers, whould they accept a "I made a mistake" and let me off?

PaulHardwick

holly1 wrote: »

:rolleyes:
I dident vote FF,never would never did.
But I did vote and always do,and that gives me the right to an opinion, as you voted(i think)you have a right to criticize also.

I have never voted.

A right to criticize??? I'll define my rights, no one else.

enda1

PaulHardwick wrote: »

I can complain because I did not give them the authority to rule over me.

You did give them the authority to rule over you.
You didn't vote for an opposition.
You stayed in Ireland and thus gave them the right to rule you.

Banks are just another business designed to make money. The are answerable to their board, their board to the shareholders (of which every board member is one).

Do you think the banks are happy that their shares are worth nothing now? Do you think the board is happy that their pay is cut 25%+ and their share assets are now worth nothing?

Nobody wanted this situation, no one person or group is to blame.
everyone is to blame.

Stop pointing fingers and start fixing the situation. And if you don't like Ireland and the way its run, vote or piss off!

mickoneill30

PaulHardwick wrote: »

I have never voted.

A right to criticize??? I'll define my rights, no one else.

Of course you have a right to criticize. It may make you hypocritical but it doesn't remove your right to criticize.

PaulHardwick

enda1 wrote: »

You did give them the authority to rule over you.
You didn't vote for an opposition.
You stayed in Ireland and thus gave them the right to rule you.

Banks are just another business designed to make money. The are answerable to their board, their board to the shareholders (of which every board member is one).

Do you think the banks are happy that their shares are worth nothing now? Do you think the board is happy that their pay is cut 25%+ and their share assets are now worth nothing?

Nobody wanted this situation, no one person or group is to blame.
everyone is to blame.

Stop pointing fingers and start fixing the situation. And if you don't like Ireland and the way its run, vote or piss off!

This is all classic little irish man stuff.

Vote or piss off?? I'll stay just where I am, and I'll never vote for another person to rule over me. Vote for the opposition, they are all the same, what age are you, and you are yet to figure this out. The EU run the show anyway, our chaps are nobodies.

No one rules over me.

mickoneill30

PaulHardwick wrote: »

This is all classic little irish man stuff.

You're right there.

PaulHardwick wrote: »

and I'll never vote for another person to rule over me.


No one rules over me.

Tip for ya. Not voting doesn't mean nobody rules over you, it just means you've no say in who's ruling over you.

PaulHardwick

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Tip for ya. Not voting doesn't mean nobody rules over you, it just means you've no say in who's ruling over you.

Tip for you, a person must give their consent for another to rule over them.

Read some contract law, offer and acceptance in particular.

Villain

PaulHardwick wrote: »

Tip for you, a person must give their consent for another to rule over them.

Read some contract law, offer and acceptance in particular.

If you choose to live in this country you choose to accept the laws and Government of this country

PaulHardwick

Villain wrote: »

If you choose to live in this country you choose to accept the laws and Government of this country

I have been living here since the mid 70's, does that mean I only have to accept laws that were in place at that time???

Accept the laws?? What are you, a school child?

mickoneill30

Time to give up on this thread. It's going even more idiotic now.

djpbarry

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Who governs the government?

In theory, the government should be held accountable by the electorate, in theory.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

What if you look at each party, decide they are all a bunch of lying toerags and don't want any of them in power.

That looks like an opinion to me.

Yes, it’s an opinion. Not a terribly valuable one, but an opinion none-the-less.

hammer1 wrote: »

It's a world wide problem, every country is in the same boat, they all made the same mistakes

No, they didn’t. For example, look around Europe; how many other nations have an unemployment rate comparable to Ireland’s? How many other countries have a budget deficit comparable to Ireland’s?

Villain

PaulHardwick wrote: »

I have been living here since the mid 70's, does that mean I only have to accept laws that were in place at that time???

Accept the laws?? What are you, a school child?

I'll ignore the personal swipe.

So you don't vote and you don't accept that the Government and the laws it enforces rule over you?

So you are looking for Anarchy? if so wheter you have lived here since the 70's or 1936 we haven't had Anarchy that I'm aware of?

djpbarry

PaulHardwick wrote: »

If you vote for the idiots who then proceed to screw you over, how can you complain, you voted them in after all.

I think that’s the first thing you’ve said on this thread that actually makes some sense; kudos.

PaulHardwick wrote: »

This is a worldwide problem, did our chaps cause a worldwide problem??

There is a worldwide storm, no doubt, but the good ship Ireland seems one of the most ill-equipped to weather it. THAT is the fault of “our chaps”.

PaulHardwick wrote: »

The EU run the show anyway…

Who runs the EU?

PaulHardwick wrote: »

Accept the laws?? What are you, a school child?

So the law of the land doesn’t apply to you because you don’t vote?

Scofflaw

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Time to give up on this thread. It's going even more idiotic now.

What is this thread actually about?

moderately,
Scofflaw

Tabnabs

Scofflaw wrote: »

What is this thread actually about?

moderately,
Scofflaw

+1

Any chance of moving it to conspiracy theories?

PaulHardwick

djpbarry wrote: »

kudos.?

What?

djpbarry wrote: »

There is a worldwide storm, no doubt, but the good ship Ireland seems one of the most ill-equipped to weather it. THAT is the fault of “our chaps”.?

We are getting taught a lesson before the next EU constitution treaty.

djpbarry wrote: »

Who runs the EU??

The UN who are in turn run by the bankers, IMF, BIS.

djpbarry wrote: »

So the law of the land doesn’t apply to you because you don’t vote?

I accept the law of God, not the laws of tyrants

Nelson Muntz

PaulHardwick wrote: »

I accept the law of God, not the laws of tyrants

You have spoken some amount of sh*te on this thread but that is the best bit.

If you don't accept the law & no one rules over you, why don't you drop down to the nearest AIB & help yourself to the vault. If anyone tries to stop you, just tell them it''s ok because you don't vote so the law doesn't apply to you.

Gu3rr1lla

There's only 3 ways to break the law:

1.Murdering or injuring another man/or woman.

2.Stealing or damaging someone elses property.

3.Breaking a contract.

Governance comes from consent, and if consent was given it can also be withdrawn.

When you are born you are registered with the government. a birth certificate (look that word up in a law dictionary) creates your person. You're not a person you have a person. Look the word person up in a law dictionary.

A person is not a (wo)man because a person has status in a society. When you contract with the government you are using your person. Ireland, like other nations, is a corporation and if you have a PPS number you are an employee of that corporation.

Ireland has rules that you have to abide by. However these rules arent laws they only have the force of law etc statute/act/legislation. That force of law comes from the consent of the governed meaning you. Have you ever read the Motor Vehicle Act? No? Then what makes you think you need a license (license means permission) to travel? Yes you need a license to drive (look that up in a law dictionary) but traveling in your private conveyance is a god given right. However if you used the words vehicle or drive for example you are consenting to their rules and thus contracting. If you're using it publicaly or commercially you need a license e.g. taxi.

My point is governance comes from consent. And you can always withdraw your consent. If you want to know more i suggest you research into "freeman on the land"

randylonghorn

Villain wrote: »

The problem as I see it, is the following:

Again, I find myself agreeing in part, disagreeing in part ...

Villain wrote: »

Bankers job was to make the bank and its private shareholders profit and work within the regulations.

Agreed, but while they may have made their shareholders large profits in the short-term, they helped create a situation where (a) much of those profits would disappear, and (b) the institutions would find themselves up to their neck in bad debts.

I don't see that as acting in the best interests of either their banks or the bank's shareholders.

I am also a strong believer in ethics in business, and certainly I don't consider an attitude of "we don't care if we scew over all our customers provided we make large money in the short-term" as ethical.

Villain wrote: »

The regulations and enforcement were the problem and that blame falls flatly at the feet of the Government that was re-elected for the last 12 years.

I agree that this was a major part of the problem.

Villain wrote: »

Bankers caused the mess I agree but the Government shouldn’t have allowed them that’s what regulation is meant to be about?

Agreed.

PaulHardwick wrote: »

I have never voted.

A right to criticize??? I'll define my rights, no one else.

Actually, I think you'll find that to a large extent the society you live in defines your rights to a large extent.

However, I agree that you have every right to criticize ... and everyone else has a right to determine whether they are going to pay any heed to your opinions if you can't even bother to vote.

PaulHardwick wrote: »

Tip for you, a person must give their consent for another to rule over them.

Read some contract law, offer and acceptance in particular.

By choosing to live in this country, you have implicitly accepted the laws which govern this country, and its system of government. Contract is valid.

*Tripper*

PaulHardwick wrote: »

What?We are getting taught a lesson before the next EU constitution treaty.The UN who are in turn run by the bankers, IMF, BIS.I accept the law of God, not the laws of tyrants

Hahahaha, someone please close this thread before this man embarrasses himself anymore. Ever commit adultery?

Scofflaw

OK, people - quality warning. This thread either develops a sense of direction - and one that isn't in the direction of the Conspiracy Theory forum - or it gets closed. Next five posts make the difference!

moderately,
Scofflaw

ionix5891

PaulHardwick wrote: »

What?We are getting taught a lesson before the next EU constitution treaty.The UN who are in turn run by the bankers, IMF, BIS.I accept the law of God, not the laws of tyrants

I see, what lesson have you learned? and what will you vote (YES or NO) at the next EU treaty (LISBON2) ?