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Ricky Hatton v Manny Pacquiao
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Fair enough I maybe rate Urango a little higher than you and some others. I'm not saying either that you don't know your stuff, its just that there are a lot of posters on here who have been posting and discussing boxing for a long time, a lot longer than I've been around. We all enjoy the discussions but when a new guy arrives in and instantly claims that he is great at predicting big fights its just kinda gets to people a bit. If you end up right in this instance then fair enough you have got off to a good start but if you are wrong, well then you're reputation is shot. If you come on and give an opinion on the fight without claiming any previous record then we don't pass judgement on you very quickly.
Anyways welcome to the forum and hopefully you will stick around and become a regular here.
Theres a little bit of PBF mayweather in me in the boasting about predictions I admit that! Hey thats why boxing has been so great the last couple of years at the lesser weights anyway. Its hard to call. I picked Margarito to break Cottos heart despite being told I was talking sh*te and the glory went to my head!
Anyway here's hoping its a great fight but I really fancy Hatton in a big way for this one. And yes I have put my money where my mouth is !0 -
You have some valid points. People who don't know the sport or who have never competed don't understand the effects of moving up in weight can have on a fighter. One cannot look past the fact that Manny was a flyweight, no matter how long ago it was. He was knocked out at flyweight actually so does this mean he brings a flyweight chin to a LWW bout?
We were all Flyweights once(unless some of us have managed to never weigh as much as 112lbs
), Pacquiao's time as a Flyweight is pretty much irrelevant.
When he was knocked out at those weights(once by a body shot, once by a head shot) he was badly drained at the weight and his body was in that adolescent stage where it grows very quickly(he was probably even a few inches smaller back then aswell). Pacquiao even failed to make weight for his second loss at 'Flyweight'.
How drained Pacquiao was is shown by his move to Super-Bantamweight straight away afterwards, at a time(to the very month) when pacquiao had just turned 21. Now in general a fighter won't be able to maintain fighting at the weight they were when they were 21 in their mid/late 20's, unless they could have actually made an even lower weight in the first place.
Pacquiao wasn't struggling that much to make Super-Bantamweight at the time he moved up, but he would have probably had to move up in a few years anyway. But considering how he had(and still has) such a low % body fat he wasn't undersized at Featherweight at all, and was reasonably big at the weight.
He didn't spend too long at Featherweight, moving to Super-Featherweight for bigger fights. Now this is where Pacquiao started to really put on muscle, because he had the lbs to play with(as he could have stayed at Featherweight in the state he was in for the majority of the rest of his career I'd say). He bulked up quite a lot, and after 3 years of fighting at the weight, due to his now considerable mass at the weight he was forced to move up to Lightweight.
Dispite what his measurements are, he's not 'naturally' nearly as big as Ricky.
If not for him adding so much muscle he'd probably still be a Featherweight or at worse at Super-Featherweight. Against Oscar Larios(a former Super-Bantamweight himself) he looked the smaller man.
Manny's always had a good chin, however he was floored and almost stopped by Nedal Hussein, but bar that episode has never been badly badly staggered. Marquez and Morales did stun him a little, and Diaz actually hurt him to the body with the only really good shot he landed all night(in the 8th), but his chin and body are extremely good for a fighter of his natural size.
Whether they'll cope with a Light-Welterweight I'm not so sure.
Where his body can cope with some wrestling and clinching, with a man about a stone naturally bigger than him, I'm not so sure and whether he can cope with the body attack of a man who's a lethal body puncher at 140 lbs I'm not so sure.
Hatton's footspeed is key in the fight, Pacquiao's is better than Ricky's but it won't be enough to always avoid being backed up to the ropes(where Manny usually does well to spin off) or in the corner.
Hatton might have trouble landing his usual 1/1-2 punch that he when in the middle of the ring, Hatton rarely throws Combo's of more than two punches unless he has a man backed up or in a clinch. But what Hatton does do is bring his whole body forward while throwing those punches in mid ring, and either intentionally or inadvertently he ends up right on top of his opponent and they are often forced into a clinch, where Hatton can use his strength, and work off his punches, especially to the body.
Pacquiao will be forced into clinches, Bayliss will give the fighters some time in those clinches to work out, but won't let them fight all day like that. However having the bigger man on top of him in those clinches will sap Pacquiao's energy, he's not used to that at all and from the sparring we've seen(although that is the sparring Roach has allowed us to see), it's been all clean cut stuff, with no clinching or holding.
Perhaps Roach thinks Pacquiao will be able to stay away from Hatton with his footspeed and footwork all night, that would be naive of him. While for considerable periods he may be able to stay away, he will be either forced into clinches or forced onto the ropes, or into the corners for quite a bit of the fights too.
I expect Pacquiao to start well and take the early rounds, but I think as great a physical specimen as he is, this will become physically too much for him, and I see him being broken somewhere around the 8th/9th.
Of course Maybe Pacquiao will be able to stay away all night, and landing buzzing combinations that hurt Hatton and eventually take him out, I doubt it but if that's the case I'll admit I was wrong afterwards.
Even Mayweather with all his footspeed and footwork was forced to fight Hatton's fight for long periods, just turns out that he could do that even better than Hatton when required. Pacquiao on the otherhand is not going to get the better of Hatton if he's pegged back to the ropes.
I think the reason Roach is acting so out of character and being so bold is he is trying to make Hatton angry, make him overly aggressive and downright reckless. I'm not sure the mind games will really play a part though.
For those that are interested here's the Pacquiao v Hussein round where Pacquiao gets badly hurt0 -
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We were all Flyweights once(unless some of us have managed to never weigh as much as 112lbs), Pacquiao's time as a Flyweight is pretty much irrelevant.
When he was knocked out at those weights(once by a body shot, once by a head shot) he was badly drained at the weight and his body was in that adolescent stage where it grows very quickly(he was probably even a few inches smaller back then aswell). Pacquiao even failed to make weight for his second loss at 'Flyweight'.
How drained Pacquiao was is shown by his move to Super-Bantamweight straight away afterwards, at a time(to the very month) when pacquiao had just turned 21. Now in general a fighter won't be able to maintain fighting at the weight they were when they were 21 in their mid/late 20's, unless they could have actually made an even lower weight in the first place.
Pacquiao wasn't struggling that much to make Super-Bantamweight at the time he moved up, but he would have probably had to move up in a few years anyway. But considering how he had(and still has) such a low % body fat he wasn't undersized at Featherweight at all, and was reasonably big at the weight.
He didn't spend too long at Featherweight, moving to Super-Featherweight for bigger fights. Now this is where Pacquiao started to really put on muscle, because he had the lbs to play with(as he could have stayed at Featherweight in the state he was in for the majority of the rest of his career I'd say). He bulked up quite a lot, and after 3 years of fighting at the weight, due to his now considerable mass at the weight he was forced to move up to Lightweight.
Dispite what his measurements are, he's not 'naturally' nearly as big as Ricky.
If not for him adding so much muscle he'd probably still be a Featherweight or at worse at Super-Featherweight. Against Oscar Larios(a former Super-Bantamweight himself) he looked the smaller man.
Manny's always had a good chin, however he was floored and almost stopped by Nedal Hussein, but bar that episode has never been badly badly staggered. Marquez and Morales did stun him a little, and Diaz actually hurt him to the body with the only really good shot he landed all night(in the 8th), but his chin and body are extremely good for a fighter of his natural size.
Whether they'll cope with a Light-Welterweight I'm not so sure.
Where his body can cope with some wrestling and clinching, with a man about a stone naturally bigger than him, I'm not so sure and whether he can cope with the body attack of a man who's a lethal body puncher at 140 lbs I'm not so sure.
Hatton's footspeed is key in the fight, Pacquiao's is better than Ricky's but it won't be enough to always avoid being backed up to the ropes(where Manny usually does well to spin off) or in the corner.
Hatton might have trouble landing his usual 1/1-2 punch that he when in the middle of the ring, Hatton rarely throws Combo's of more than two punches unless he has a man backed up or in a clinch. But what Hatton does do is bring his whole body forward while throwing those punches in mid ring, and either intentionally or inadvertently he ends up right on top of his opponent and they are often forced into a clinch, where Hatton can use his strength, and work off his punches, especially to the body.
Pacquiao will be forced into clinches, Bayliss will give the fighters some time in those clinches to work out, but won't let them fight all day like that. However having the bigger man on top of him in those clinches will sap Pacquiao's energy, he's not used to that at all and from the sparring we've seen(although that is the sparring Roach has allowed us to see), it's been all clean cut stuff, with no clinching or holding.
Perhaps Roach thinks Pacquiao will be able to stay away from Hatton with his footspeed and footwork all night, that would be naive of him. While for considerable periods he may be able to stay away, he will be either forced into clinches or forced onto the ropes, or into the corners for quite a bit of the fights too.
I expect Pacquiao to start well and take the early rounds, but I think as great a physical specimen as he is, this will become physically too much for him, and I see him being broken somewhere around the 8th/9th.
Of course Maybe Pacquiao will be able to stay away all night, and landing buzzing combinations that hurt Hatton and eventually take him out, I doubt it but if that's the case I'll admit I was wrong afterwards.
Even Mayweather with all his footspeed and footwork was forced to fight Hatton's fight for long periods, just turns out that he could do that even better than Hatton when required. Pacquiao on the otherhand is not going to get the better of Hatton if he's pegged back to the ropes.
I think the reason Roach is acting so out of character and being so bold is he is trying to make Hatton angry, make him overly aggressive and downright reckless. I'm not sure the mind games will really play a part though.
For those that are interested here's the Pacquiao v Hussein round where Pacquiao gets badly hurt
1. Agreed about Pacmans weight struggles and how that affected his performances.
2. Agreed about Hattons footspeed... very very important in this fight.
3. STRONGLY disagree about Pacman being drawn into clinches. Show me ONE instance of Pacman in a clinch in a fight. It doesn't happen. He fights hard on the inside and gets away from clinches. You will not see him in the usual hatton hit and hold area in this fight AT ALL and believe me, freddie roach has made sure Pacman knows that clinching and holding is NOT acceptable in this fight. It's not in pacmans nature anyway.
4. PBF clinches and worked on the inside with Hatton because he was FAR superior. He could have stayed on the outside and beaten Hatton like that but he was having a lot of success on the inside so he basically destroyed hatton at his own game. It had nothing to do with hatton "forcing" him to fight that way.
lol, it's nearly 5am and this forum is buzzing!0 -
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Theres a little bit of PBF mayweather in me in the boasting about predictions I admit that! Hey thats why boxing has been so great the last couple of years at the lesser weights anyway. Its hard to call. I picked Margarito to break Cottos heart despite being told I was talking sh*te and the glory went to my head!
Anyway here's hoping its a great fight but I really fancy Hatton in a big way for this one. And yes I have put my money where my mouth is !
Why not join our prediction league(well, if Cowzerp is okay with it), and backup your reputation with substance
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We were all Flyweights once(unless some of us have managed to never weigh as much as 112lbs), Pacquiao's time as a Flyweight is pretty much irrelevant.
When he was knocked out at those weights(once by a body shot, once by a head shot) he was badly drained at the weight and his body was in that adolescent stage where it grows very quickly(he was probably even a few inches smaller back then aswell). Pacquiao even failed to make weight for his second loss at 'Flyweight'.
How drained Pacquiao was is shown by his move to Super-Bantamweight straight away afterwards, at a time(to the very month) when pacquiao had just turned 21. Now in general a fighter won't be able to maintain fighting at the weight they were when they were 21 in their mid/late 20's, unless they could have actually made an even lower weight in the first place.
Pacquiao wasn't struggling that much to make Super-Bantamweight at the time he moved up, but he would have probably had to move up in a few years anyway. But considering how he had(and still has) such a low % body fat he wasn't undersized at Featherweight at all, and was reasonably big at the weight.
He didn't spend too long at Featherweight, moving to Super-Featherweight for bigger fights. Now this is where Pacquiao started to really put on muscle, because he had the lbs to play with(as he could have stayed at Featherweight in the state he was in for the majority of the rest of his career I'd say). He bulked up quite a lot, and after 3 years of fighting at the weight, due to his now considerable mass at the weight he was forced to move up to Lightweight.
Dispite what his measurements are, he's not 'naturally' nearly as big as Ricky.
If not for him adding so much muscle he'd probably still be a Featherweight or at worse at Super-Featherweight. Against Oscar Larios(a former Super-Bantamweight himself) he looked the smaller man.
Manny's always had a good chin, however he was floored and almost stopped by Nedal Hussein, but bar that episode has never been badly badly staggered. Marquez and Morales did stun him a little, and Diaz actually hurt him to the body with the only really good shot he landed all night(in the 8th), but his chin and body are extremely good for a fighter of his natural size.
Whether they'll cope with a Light-Welterweight I'm not so sure.
Where his body can cope with some wrestling and clinching, with a man about a stone naturally bigger than him, I'm not so sure and whether he can cope with the body attack of a man who's a lethal body puncher at 140 lbs I'm not so sure.
Hatton's footspeed is key in the fight, Pacquiao's is better than Ricky's but it won't be enough to always avoid being backed up to the ropes(where Manny usually does well to spin off) or in the corner.
Hatton might have trouble landing his usual 1/1-2 punch that he when in the middle of the ring, Hatton rarely throws Combo's of more than two punches unless he has a man backed up or in a clinch. But what Hatton does do is bring his whole body forward while throwing those punches in mid ring, and either intentionally or inadvertently he ends up right on top of his opponent and they are often forced into a clinch, where Hatton can use his strength, and work off his punches, especially to the body.
Pacquiao will be forced into clinches, Bayliss will give the fighters some time in those clinches to work out, but won't let them fight all day like that. However having the bigger man on top of him in those clinches will sap Pacquiao's energy, he's not used to that at all and from the sparring we've seen(although that is the sparring Roach has allowed us to see), it's been all clean cut stuff, with no clinching or holding.
Perhaps Roach thinks Pacquiao will be able to stay away from Hatton with his footspeed and footwork all night, that would be naive of him. While for considerable periods he may be able to stay away, he will be either forced into clinches or forced onto the ropes, or into the corners for quite a bit of the fights too.
I expect Pacquiao to start well and take the early rounds, but I think as great a physical specimen as he is, this will become physically too much for him, and I see him being broken somewhere around the 8th/9th.
Of course Maybe Pacquiao will be able to stay away all night, and landing buzzing combinations that hurt Hatton and eventually take him out, I doubt it but if that's the case I'll admit I was wrong afterwards.
Even Mayweather with all his footspeed and footwork was forced to fight Hatton's fight for long periods, just turns out that he could do that even better than Hatton when required. Pacquiao on the otherhand is not going to get the better of Hatton if he's pegged back to the ropes.
I think the reason Roach is acting so out of character and being so bold is he is trying to make Hatton angry, make him overly aggressive and downright reckless. I'm not sure the mind games will really play a part though.
For those that are interested here's the Pacquiao v Hussein round where Pacquiao gets badly hurt
You are 100% spot on with your comments and your technical knowledge is superb excellent post. And i'm not just saying that because we are somewhat in agreement about Hatton breaking Manny down somewhere down the stretch.
The point about Mayweather is spot on. Hatton didnt believe Floyd would cope with Ricky on the inside and in some ways it broke Rickys heart to know Floyd could adapt and do this better than what Ricky does best.
Don't be surprised to see Ricky throw more combinations than usual and his defence will be alot sharper in the rounds 1-5 anyway. I think it will be pretty strange for the first round or 2 with Ricky anxious not to be too agressive as he feels Manny out a little. We may not see too much action, Manny may even be the agressor. But when the fight reaches it equilibrium I feel that Hatton will be too overbearing and his body shots will be particularly vicious. I think Roach and Co feel ricky won't have the opportunity to fire such shots off but I reckon Manny will have to feel take some hard shots at some stage. I think the old dog may have learned a few tricks aswell but genuinely I don't think the new regime will be a major factor apart from more lateral movement by Hatton early on aswell as slightly better conditioning. I think its gunna be old school Hatton that surfaces in the heat of it and that'll be too hard for Manny to handle when he can't get Ricky off.0 -
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1. Agreed about Pacmans weight struggles and how that affected his performances.
2. Agreed about Hattons footspeed... very very important in this fight.
3. STRONGLY disagree about Pacman being drawn into clinches. Show me ONE instance of Pacman in a clinch in a fight. It doesn't happen. He fights hard on the inside and gets away from clinches. You will not see him in the usual hatton hit and hold area in this fight AT ALL and believe me, freddie roach has made sure Pacman knows that clinching and holding is NOT acceptable in this fight. It's not in pacmans nature anyway.
4. PBF clinches and worked on the inside with Hatton because he was FAR superior. He could have stayed on the outside and beaten Hatton like that but he was having a lot of success on the inside so he basically destroyed hatton at his own game. It had nothing to do with hatton "forcing" him to fight that way.
lol, it's nearly 5am and this forum is buzzing!
3. Pacquiao hasn't been fighting manny fighters than clinch often. Morales, Barrera and Marquez have comprised half of his fights for the last 8/9 years and none of the 3 like to clinch unless badly stunned.
You can see Manny clinching quite a bit in the video with Hussein, however that's for obvious reasons.....:D
I could be wrong but I seem to remember the Solis fight having quite a bit of holding in it. I'd certainly agree that Roach would have said to Pacquiao don't let him clinch you no matter what, however because of that they quite possibly haven't worked out what to if Hatton does get him into clinches, which would be a huge mistake on Roach's part.
4. I'm not so sure Mayweather could have gotten to fight on the outside that easily, Jesus Chavez forced Mayweather into a similar fight previously.
Although Chavez did a better job than Hatton and actually made Mayweather take quite a lot of punishment(although the majority to the body), he wasn't able to get on the outside in that fight(or else he didn't try, which would of been stupid with how much he got hit and how close some rounds were), and imo it was the same in the Hatton fight.
I just remebered Larios actually shook Manny a bit in their fight tooYeah sure thing how can I join?
You guys are dying to see me fall now aren't ye???
Id love to join the prediction league
pm Cowzerp and ask if he'll let you join the boxing comp poll league.
I will point out some drawbacks first, this did start in January so it would be difficult for you to win even if you were very good at predicting. Although the scoring system has changed in the last few weeks(which may be permanent or temporary) and it allows for you to catch up quickly enough if you're predicting fights very accurately. Well actually if you were good at picking the exact round the old system would allow you to catch up much quicker, but the new system works in having a bunch of rounds to pick from rather than a specific one(that's if you're picking a knockout of course), and if you can keep getting that right, you'll zoom up the table.
The other 'drawback'.....well it's only a drawback if you see it as one, is the competition is being done for charity this time.
So everyone entering has to give €10 and if you win your charity of choice gets the lot. The charity can be a non-profit boxing club aswell.
f1dan 255
Bigears 255
ODD JOB 240
MBC 235
Megadodge 200
Cowzerp 195
Nacho Libre 195
Rockman 190
Duagre 180
Sligobhoy67 145
Dr Mason 130
blackgold>> 60
There's the current table, and at the moment it is working as such:
20 points for winner
10 for correct group of rounds of the 3, (1-4, 5-8, 9-12)
10 for guessing a stoppage
10 for points
60 for draw
So basically you're looking at 30/40 points for every fairly accurate prediction you make.0 -
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JMM is the only fight that makes sense to Floyd, thats why it is going to happen (although nothing confirmed... id say they are just letting pac-hitman happen first)
The only guys Floyds size that are big enough names to fight are too much after such a lay off. Cotto and Mosely in particular. There isnt anyone near his ppv level at the mo. Berto has his old belt, thats about the only selling point of that fight. Clottey who is fighting Cotto anyway wouldnt really cut it. Williams no chance.
Theres no stars at this weight really in terms of ppv. Cambell is there and fightless but isnt as big of a name as JMM who is the linear lightweight champ, a golden boy fighter, has fought competitive fights with Pacman and from what I understand has been in 2 good fights at 135. In terms of ppv he ticks all the boxes, plus he is much smaller than pbf so makes for an ideal comeback opponent. This doesnt close any doors for JMM either, in fact it almost ensures another big pay day for him, most likely against Hatton or Pacquiao.
Pbf will look for the Hatton-Pac winner for sure. This isnt about his legacy, this is about his pocket. If it was abuot his legacy he would look to Mosely, Williams and Cotto but too with any of these guys there is more bruises with less dollars. They truely would give Money Mayweather a recession special.0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPVr3qvvsAg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8jGjhkW6eI
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