Lenihan: out of touch, out of his mind

Klingon Hamlet

Did anyone listen to iPat Kenny this morning? Lenihan was on air trying to explain to us all that these tax levy increases and his vicious attack on children's care allowance was a necessary evil, in order to reclaim some revenue for the country's well-being.

Yes.

He lives on a different f*&king planet, that man. He needs to be honest with the public and confess to contributing honest hardworking people's money towards a cabal of money-pilfering fat cats protected by self-interested regulations. I mean FFS property developers are able to claim back tax on losses on land, yet ordinary Joe Soap cannot afford childcare??? Lenihan uses our money to buy a sick, twisted and corrupt bank, then claims we have no money???

What, the HELL, is going on here? Why haven't we risen up against this club of buffoons, and shown them what Irish pride really is? How long will we wait...how much more will we allow them to take...before we stand up and declare: "No, we will no longer support criminals who use fear-propoganda to steal the money out of our pockets and lodge it in their own piggybanks!"?

I am tired of this. Pat Kenny clearly was. People were practically crying on the phone---and they were the moderately well-off (despite their protestations, 60k a year is not bad).

I have a son. I'm on 29k a year. My commission might as well not exist. My ex chose not to work, and now her child care is disappearing. My child support payments are already crippling. I cannot afford my own place. I live at home. And this little sh!t comes onto the radio and says there's no other way to rejuvenate the country's finances.

Isn't there? Close the tax loopholes. Quit ignoring Joan Burton's financial qualifications and sound advice; listen to her. Take heed of your peers' clearly superior knowledge and wisdom, and do what's right for our country.

Or else (I hope) the people will oust you.

hellboy99

Not only is he way out of touch with reality but he also has no accounting skills and he's our finance minister :rolleyes:

smelltheglove

If we had 60k a year coming into our house we'd be laughing, and we are married with 2 kids and paying crippling rent.

Disease Ridden

Everybody agrees that we have to take pain to remedy the dire situation we're in, yes? Well this is the pain we've all been looking for.
I dont think Brian Lenihan is out of his mind, although he might be slightly out of touch (but who wouldnt be when they're earning his kind of money ). Would it have been better if they had given a half-hearted budget yesterday (which people would still inevitably have given out about) which would have left us piling up the debt like they did in the eighties? I'm glad they slammed on the brakes yesterday and, even though they've alot more to do, i think they're moving in the right direction for once(by the way I hate all political parties equally).

CamperMan

Lenihan is a retard and should be sacked, he is a lunatic, he has no idea about what he is doing, he is just muddling through each day coming up with crap ideas that will ruin this country, he would be better off tossing burgers for McDonalds, and Cowen, he should be sacked and he could get a job shoveling sh!t on a farm in his home town of Offaly!!

And what on earth are the government thinking about wanting to buy all this property in Ireland and abroad??, if the banks cannot get the money from the property developers, how the fu¢k are the government going to do it, this is a ridicolus idea and the tax payer are going to pay for it!:mad:

silverharp

smelltheglove wrote: »

If we had 60k a year coming into our house we'd be laughing, and we are married with 2 kids and paying crippling rent.

Its all relative , If someone from Bangladesh had your conditions, he'd be laughing

greendom

I dont' think he's out of his mind - he's between a rock and a hard place - would anyone here seriously like to be in his shoes ?

gandalf

The problem I see is this. No one has an issue paying their way providing they know their tax money is getting value. There are no definites in this budget on delivering value, there was a lot of waffle and soundbites. This government should have looked at delivering value and increasing efficiency first and then taxing people. In my opinion and the opinion of a lot of the commentators out there is no point removing 2% of GDP from the economy if you are just wasting it with inefficient and ineffectual government spending.

All this will do is depress the economy more, cause more job losses, increase the pressure on social welfare and increase peoples spending over the border.

This government are a loss, they are not prepared to do what has to be done to solve this issue which is to really tackle where the tax monies are spent and to ensure we the taxpayer are getting the full bang for our bucks. The hope is whoever replaces them has the decency to do what has been long overdue in this country and sort the problem out. (I expect a general election to be this autumn after the government parties are decimated in the Local and European elections).

Nothingbetter2d

CamperMan wrote: »

Cowen, he should be sacked and he could get a job shoveling sh!t on a farm in his home town of Offaly!!

there is no such town as offaly.... its a county.... Brian's home town is called Clara i believe.

But shoveling sh*t is too good for him.... put him on the €204 a week dole with reduced rent allowance and no xmas bonus to see how he likes it. come to think of it put lenihan on it too.

Lucas10101

It's not that bad...try not to exaggerate the situation...we'll all manage, no-one's going to die.

Polar101

greendom wrote: »

I dont' think he's out of his mind - he's between a rock and a hard place - would anyone here seriously like to be in his shoes ?

Sure, I'll take an overpaid job where you don't need qualifications, or have to take any responsibility. If I screw up, I can always say it was for the common good, or that I didn't read the document.

Nothingbetter2d

Lucas10101 wrote: »

It's not that bad...try not to exaggerate the situation...we'll all manage, no-one's going to die.

i wouldnt be so sure

wait til people get so in debt that suicides rates will increase

wait til serious crime rates rise due to bungled burglaries, more old people will likely to be targeted.

Zynks

there is a gipsy curse that goes something like "may you have a lot and then loose it". In our case we just don't need a gipsy cursing at as, just the Brians doing their job.

Yes, nobody is going to die (except for the growing number of suicides), but the issue is that we are living the side effects of 15 years of mismanagement of the conomy, and the people who had the opportunity to build long lasting stregth in our economy but failed miserably are still in charge!

helimachoptor

greendom wrote: »

I dont' think he's out of his mind - he's between a rock and a hard place - would anyone here seriously like to be in his shoes ?

Yep, cos I would have taken a chainsaw to the dole

Nody

Disease Ridden wrote: »

Would it have been better if they had given a half-hearted budget yesterday (which people would still inevitably have given out about)

He did deliver a half/hearted budget yesterday, that is the whole damn point. If he had actually delivered a proper budget (cut costs in Public Service, Social wellfare etc.) and god forbid actually require some effiency in the organisation (they should run the Wallmart set up, 5% less budget for all departments every year but required to deliver same or better service, department fails and you fire the top heads) we would not have threads like this.

subfreq

It's an almost unbelievable situation facilitated by they fact that we are a totally benign society.

We walked into this with pork barrel Budgets over the last ten years and sold our vote to FF at every turn. We got sold an illusion and I think to a great degree the blinkers were lifted for a lot of people yesterday.

I don't think as a country we can allow this government to control the December budget. They are lined us all up yesterday by outlining where they will hit us all with Property Tax etc down the line.

I believe in a taxed society and have no problem paying my share. I was expecting to fork out more yesterday and it's not the amount that worries me.

What rankles me is the transparent disregard Cowen has for the people of Ireland. Linehan is just a patsy in all this. Cowen has been the architect for years and is clearly maneuvering his banking and construction cabal out of this as best he can.

He knows that Germany and France have all but underwritten this country if anything goes seriously bad so can afford to gamble such a large degree of the public purse on the toxicity of the banks and it's select debtors.

Banking execs getting let go to live off their 20+ Million pensions, Boo Hoo for them. Construction magnates now looking for tax rebates off property losses before declaring bankruptcy and transferring property titles to dead end companies so as not to incur any personal losses.

It's not just a disgrace. It should be illegal. People should be held to task.

I really bemoan the fact that we have no credible opposition in this country. I wouldn't trust Enda Kenny to wash my car let alone lead this country. Without the proper political will and organisation in the opposition we are going to go no where. This country wont polarize and demand change until someone from the opposition can show some real leadership.

narwog81

This was a supplementary or emergency budget.

He had no choice but to quickly gain income using the blunt instrument of the income and "health" levies as we are already a quarter of the way through the year and it would be next to impossible to re-jig the tax bands at this stage.

In the Budget for 2010 later this year he will most likely repeal some of the levies and change the existing tax bands.

Also, the Minister has stated the Government's Policy on public sector reform

1) reduce pay bill - this was done using the pension levy

2) reduce numbers - the government hope the early retirement scheme announced yesterday coupled with the promotion/recruitment embargo will do this

3) increase efficiency - the next budget will cut all departments spending etc to do this

Also the 25% cut on investors mortgage relief was a considered one as any larger of a cut would leave the banks holding even more defaulted loans.

All of this was well flagged, people on higher incomes are getting nailed aswell. As for the christmas "bonus", its a 2% reduction coming fast on the heels of a 3% increase last year. why should social welfare receipients not have to take a share of the cuts along with the rest of society?

lmimmfn

hows about he delt with the actual fecking problem which is expenditure rather than raping everyone?

I didnt think it was too bad, but we've another 3 budgets of the same crap to get through, and by the end of it and whats expected i/a whole lot of us might end up better off just doling it if we even have jobs by that stage lol

luckat

The use of levies - supposed to be temporary, but when has one ended? - is disgraceful. They scoop up tax from even the bottom-feeders, and are the financial equivalent of monofilament nets.

eoinbn

OP: If you want to blame one person, blame the right person- good old Bertie.

ejmaztec

He must have a twin.

One of them admitted that increasing vat was wrong, and that a lot of revenue was also lost due to the extra duty on cigarettes in the last emergency budget.

The other one didn't rectify the vat error and then increased the duty on cigarettes in this emergency budget.

I hope to God there aren't triplets!

xz

helimachoptor wrote: »

Yep, cos I would have taken a chainsaw to the dole

That's all fine and well to say that, but we are in situation, Now, in this country where more and more people need to avail of the dole, and it is not just your stereotypical layabout either, I for one, am facing the very real prospect of having to go on the dole for the first time in my life, my job is going within the next 2 years, There is little or NO work available at the moment.
I have worked hard and paid my taxes since I left school 20 years ago and have never been unemployed, as have probably most of the 20,000 people last Month who "signed on" after losing their jobs.
Your statement is lacking in the mental grasp of what this country is facing. I hope YOU keep your job and be one of the lucky ones who doesnt have to face the, in my opinion, shameful feeling of standing in a queue to get a measly €204 a week.
Yesterday, our Government condemned a lot of people in this country below the "breadline" within the next year or 2.
This country is going backwards, our crime rates are going to soar, the country will become shabby looking as people illegally dump etc. ALL BECAUSE THE NATIONAL DEBT HAS BEEN PUT ONTO THE TAXPAYER.
As usual with this Government, protect the real Asses that got us into this mess and that includes themselves, everything that they took off themselves, they had already given to themselves last year, so they're not missing much.
WAIT UNTIL DECEMBER WHEN YOU ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE PAYING A POLL TAX. I bet D4 will have to pay less than Ballymun

The Raven.

luckat wrote: »

The use of levies - supposed to be temporary, but when has one ended? - is disgraceful. They scoop up tax from even the bottom-feeders, and are the financial equivalent of monofilament nets.

Income levies to be made permanent

On RTÉ Radio's Today with Pat Kenny, Mr Lenihan said the levies would be fully integrated into the PAYE system in next December's budget.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0408/budget.html

Not a smart move! Does Mr. Lenihan think that he is going to be 'permanent' :rolleyes:??

holly1

helimachoptor wrote: »

Yep, cos I would have taken a chainsaw to the dole

Im not on the dole thank god nor is any of my family yet,but how can you say that and expect a family to survive on 200euro a week,its realy not possible.Up to now I would imagine that people on the dole were doing odd jobs here and there to make ends meet (not saying that is right),but now there are no nikers out there to supplement people,no bonus at xmass and reduced rent supp,it must be a god dam nightmare for them.
Yesterdays budget is only paying debts caused by our gov,nothing was done to create jobs,.How much more do they expect us to payin levys,taxes etc,you cant get blood from a stone.
Im sorry if you couldent understand some oral of my rant but Im awfull angry:mad:

lmimmfn

holly1 wrote: »

Im not on the dole thank god nor is any of my family yet,but how can you say that and expect a family to survive on 200euro a week,its realy not possible.

Er, why would a family on the dole have to survive on 200EUR a week??? i know folk getting ~700euro a week on welfare

K4t

What was stopping him trebling the 3 per cent levy may I ask? Seems like a good idea to me. The lower and middle income earners are suffering progressively worse than the higher income earners atm.

Carlow52

Lucas10101 wrote: »

It's not that bad...try not to exaggerate the situation...we'll all manage, no-one's going to die.

My neighbour lost job: hung himself.

people will die

rasper

greendom wrote: »

I dont' think he's out of his mind - he's between a rock and a hard place - would anyone here seriously like to be in his shoes ?

Plenty of people would like to be in his shoes 100k a year, ministeral pension for life , garda driven merc, and every over paid advisor to assist him-beats facing a dole Q and butter vouchers while still having a 300k debt overhead.


"i know folk getting ~700euro a week on welfare"

Pray tell how anyone can get €700 a week from the social welfare

is_that_so

Was not impressed with the Pat Kenny Liveline at all. What was Lenihan going to do beyond chant the mantra? I do agree with him on one thing and that is the concept of fairness. There are regrettably a certain number of people who think fairness is anything that is not applied to them. that said the whole levy approach must be properly calibrated in the next budget. As I've seen here and elsewhere €50K coming into a house, hit by the plethora of levies, takes no account of your circumstances.

is_that_so

Carlow52 wrote: »

My neighbour lost job: hung himself.

people will die

People, will do this anyway, irrespective of jobs, and it's something of an insult to people who are at risk to use this to justify your position.

lmimmfn

is_that_so wrote: »

Was not impressed with the Pat Kenny Liveline at all. What was Lenihan going to do beyond chant the mantra? I do agree with him on one thing and that is the concept of fairness. There are regrettably a certain number of people who think fairness is anything that is not applied to them. that said the whole levy approach must be properly calibrated in the next budget. As I've seen here and elsewhere €50K coming into a house, hit by the plethora of levies, takes no account of your circumstances.

I agree, its not fair especially for young working parent's with 2+ kids( not that im in that situation myself, but i can see from the calculations in the papers that they actually suffer most out of this ).