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Non-citizens getting the dole? Time to stop it?
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Yes, I have seen that data.. Why are you excluding the UK? (i know you said you covered this, what post # I am not reading 11 pages of posts to find it
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So given the data we have there are more Irish abroad "taking" jobs and receiving dole than foreigners here. ~800K vs ~420K
Looking further at what you propose.. I work with many many bright and talented foreigners at the middle/upper skilled section of the workforce. In fact, look at a lot of the multinational corporations who employ vast numbers here. They in general have a good proportion of foreign staff and senior managers. Should we implement laws that discourge them from setting up here, and having a safety net in case they fall on hard times? It's not so long ago that MNC's in Ireland had to pay foreign workers extra benefits to entice them to come to Ireland (and even though I am Irish, I was beneficiary of these schemes to get me to come back to Ireland).
How do you propose to handle the disencentive for these MNC's and other entreprenuers to come to Ireland and setup in business? Don't assume all foreigners are in low paid positions that any can do.. many of them are in highly skilled positions that we don't have the workforce available to fill initially.
To answer the latter part of your question it is very simple, short term contracts on temporary work permits.
And you seem to be living in the past, yes, we USED to have a labour shortage, NOT anymore. And if a situation arises where an Irish national cannot be found to fill a job vacancy then by all means hire a non-national but again Irish citizens should come first.
And why not include the UK? Simple, it isn't in the best intersts of Ireland. This is all about what in these curent economic times is good for Ireland, not other countries or thier citizens, Ireland. If the UK turned around and said all Irish people on the dole over X ammount of time would not be entitled to dole, we'd have to accept that (we wouldn't like it of course) but we, at least I, could understand why they'd do it. To saveguard their own financial stability, to ensure that British nationals came first.
However, Ireland and the UK have what is called a Common Travel Area (although possibly for not much longer) We also have a shared history (for better or worse), close political links, cultural links, familial links and so on. The relationship between Ireland and the UK is very different to Ireland and the the other member States of the EU.
If there are 500,000 people in the UK (a large proportion of which, I assume are northern Irish nationalists - who would by in large class themselves as Irish, whether they have Irish passports or not) who were born in Ireland and many of those could well have dual nationality, Irish and British.
In the remainder of the EU there are not 300,000 Irish nationals living and working (or on the dole as the case may be)
I am specifically talking about the EU, not North America, Australia/NZ or anywhere else. I am talking about non-nationals who can as the rules stand claim social welfare indefinetly here after working for 2 years and who have the right to work here without any limits being imposed, to the detrement of Irish citizens.0 -
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Heineken Helen wrote: »You keep mentioning the UK? Or not when it suits ya... It's confusing
So by your rationale, you're in a better position than most... since your wife's a non national, why can't she just go out and get a job and support both of you?:) since it's so easy! There... problem solved!
Lol, you seem not to get it......you assume that there are jobs available for whoever wants them, it's about time you woke up and smelt the coffee.....there are NOT jobs available for whoever wants them, this is self evident. You have ex bankers, accountants etc trying to get jobs in McDonalds.
Oh, and by the way, my spouse is in full time education and I am in reciept of a social welfare payment (and my wife is my dependant) I also study, part time by distance with a UK university. So, while we are in reciept of a social welfare payment we are at the same time attempting to better ourselves.0 -
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Lol, you seem not to get it......you assume that there are jobs available for whoever wants them, it's about time you woke up and smelt the coffee.....there are NOT jobs available for whoever wants them, this is self evident. You have ex bankers, accountants etc trying to get jobs in McDonalds.
Oh, and by the way, my spouse is in full time education and I am in reciept of a social welfare payment (and my wife is my dependant) I also study, part time by distance with a UK university. So, while we are in reciept of a social welfare payment we are at the same time attempting to better ourselves.
I'm on the dole too... when did I say there were jobs for anyone who wants them? You seem to think all the eastern europeans are the only ones with access to the jobs so I was just having a bit of fun with that.0 -
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Agreed. Lets stop paying ye.
Many are jobs that the Irish don't want, or are too low paid for the Irish.
Again, I know of call-center jobs who Irish people look down their noses at, but the "foreigners" will work in. If we shipped all the "foreigners" out, are you going to also ship HP, Intel, etc, out as well? No? So it'll be selective with who we throw out?
How about: we throw you out?
Throw me out...:pac:....funny! You seem to be living in 2006 or something. Just a few days ago the government cut the dole for the under 20's by 50%. Now where are those under 20's supposed to find work if most or many lower paid jobs are taken by non-nationals.
You said Irish people won't work in call centres? Really? Are you talking about today or a few years ago? Tell that to the under 20 who gladly will but because the jobs are taken by non-nationals, can't. Or the professionals who are reduced to applying for jobs in McDonalds......but again can't even get a job there.
And as for the "lets stop paying ye" bit, Irish nationals should be and are entitled to be supported by the IRISH State. The first responsibiity of any State is to it's own citizens.
You are living in the past, we have a whole new reality today.0 -
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Throw me out...:pac:....funny! You seem to be living in 2006 or something. Just a few days ago the government cut the dole for the under 20's by 50%. Now where are those under 20's supposed to find work if most or many lower paid jobs are taken by non-nationals.
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go onto further education ...0 -
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I doubt your assumption very much. AS far as I know and of course I may be wrong but Irish peole living in the UK can apply for naturalisation after 5 years, and vice versa.
And every single person in northern Ireland, again unless I am wrong has the right under the Good Friday Agreement (or perhaps pre-dating it) to apply for either British or Irish nationality or to have dual citizenship.
So there are what, a million in the north? Approx half of them are Irish??? So we're assuming there are 500,000 Irish citizens living in the north (UK). So that accounts for all of them right?
So that means there are NO people from the republic living in England??? Having lived in London, I can assure you that is certainly not true 
My personal assumption would be that the 500,000 Irish born people living in the UK would be those born in the republic... cos I've a feeling I met at LEAST half a million Irish when I lived in London 0 -
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Heineken Helen wrote: »So there are what, a million in the north? Approx half of them are Irish??? So we're assuming there are 500,000 Irish citizens living in the north (UK). So that accounts for all of them right?
So that means there are NO people from the republic living in England??? Having lived in London, I can assure you that is certainly not true My personal assumption would be that the 500,000 Irish born people living in the UK would be those born in the republic... cos I've a feeling I met at LEAST half a million Irish when I lived in London
I am simply going by the figures which I have found, and yes it doesn't make any sense but those are the figures. Maybe they are excluding the north but I doubt it but who knows. But anyway, the UK doesn't really matter I am talking about non-nationals, excluding British citizens for reasons I have made clear.
Again, I am talking about what is good for Ireland, that's it. I am not saying it isn't selfish, of course it's selfish but why, especially now, shouldn't it be....Ireland can go on losing money to non-nationals and see our dole ques get longer and longer or the State can act (not that they probably will in any case, all this is simply my opinion. If people agree, fine. If folks don't, fine)0 -
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