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Non-citizens getting the dole? Time to stop it?
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"Ever hear of something called work permits?"
Amazingly I have.. 20 years working for and with international companies did teach me something
but this is nothing to do with permits..
If you are going to create new jobs.. you need people willing to risk money to start the business. Setting up a new business especially in cutting edge areas of technology which is where Ireland is trying to be, is a very risky business. If you limit the attractiveness of coming to Ireland with draconian laws (taking away any safety net of social welfare for their employees), then they will go to other countries. fact.
You seem to completely ignore the fact that I have stated several times, that in the 1990 many companies over here had to put extra benefits in place to attract skilled staff to this country. If you put another block in their way, they will go to Britian, France, Germany etc. Ireland is now a very expensive country to setup and do business in, taking away other benefits that are available in better served countries 100 miles away will drive wealth and job creation to those countries.
And for what? you don't even know how many non nationals are claiming dole.
So, international companies won't invest here because we restrict the social welfare system for non-nationals? Em, no. What type of social welfare system exists for non-nationals in one of the most entreprenurial countries in the world, the US?0 -
So, international companies won't invest here because we restrict the social welfare system for non-nationals? Em, no. What type of social welfare system exists for non-nationals in one of the most entreprenurial countries in the world, the US?
what type of a system exists for nationals in the US
why dont we put the same system as the US here in Ireland, will make people like you get a job and cut away a large chunk of that welfare pie
i dont see why my tax money (i paid 13k for 2008) should go to wasters like you not someone who worked hard paying taxes and is probably highly educated (alot of "non nationals" in hitech jobs here in ireland simply because our students rather do arts and commerce and law than real subjects that actually contribute to economy such as science and engineering)
go get a job and stop spitting rubbish online your giving us Irish a bad name
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what type of a system exists for nationals in the US
why dont we put the same system as the US here in Ireland, will make people like you get a job and cut away a large chunk of that welfare pie
i dont see why my tax money (i paid 13k for 2008) should go to wasters like you not someone who worked hard paying taxes and is probably highly educated (alot of "non nationals" in hitech jobs here in ireland simply because our students rather do arts and commerce and law than real subjects that actually contribute to economy such as science and engineering)
go get a job and stop spitting rubbish online your giving us Irish a bad name
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You seem rather immature......honestly Thankfully we don't have a system such as exists in the States nor would the vast majority of Irish people want one. In my opinion you are in the minority there, chum.
We all see the huge gap between the wealthy and the poor in America, and it's ignorant people like you (you call me "waster"...I'll call you "ignorant", how's that for fairness?) that would like to replicate that here......oh yeah, we'd have a great society then.....0 -
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You seem rather immature......honestly Thankfully we don't have a system such as exists in the States nor would the vast majority of Irish people want one. In my opinion you are in the minority there, chum.
We all see the huge gap between the wealthy and the poor in America, and it's ignorant people like you (you call me "waster"...I'll call you "ignorant", how's that for fairness?) that would like to replicate that here......oh yeah, we'd have a great society then.....
i am just rather pissed of that my tax money goes to pay racists
you wouldn't survive in a capitalist system like the US young jedi
anyways this thread is turning out to be Your Opinion vs Everyone else'sYou are making wild assumptions that because you had the good fortune to start your own business that everyone else can, that is cloud cookooland stuff......
yes businesses that have to do trade with eu, us and the rest of the world, business that needs people who get the job done and keep open minds, not people who can not think outside the box and are backward xenophobes
as an employer i would hire the person who i think is right for the job and has what it takes, not their race, color, gender, sexual preference
if i had to give preference to an Irish person over "non national" who is more qualified and displayed better attitude in interviews and test then i wont be in business for long
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So, international companies won't invest here because we restrict the social welfare system for non-nationals? Em, no. What type of social welfare system exists for non-nationals in one of the most entreprenurial countries in the world, the US?
you still don't get it do you... /sigh
In order for new business to start with external capital, people have to come from outside and setup business.... ok.. now a lot of starter companies fail (and anyone with a brain will plan for that potential eventuality), so if you are going to move you, your family, sell your house and all your possesions and move to Ireland to work for that company, you will want a safety net.. because if the company only lasts 6 months you wont have enough stamps to pay for jack.. Suddenly your staff are stuck in a country with house/car/family and no means of income, thats not an incentive for them to come here.. If you setup in the UK, which is cheaper and better serviced you have that safety net if it's needed.. why would you come to Ireland in the first place? So yes, companies do look at if they able to attract the right sort of staff to give them a competitive advantage... You may not believe that, but I have 20 years experience working for international companies and it is exactly the they of thing that will factor into the equation.
All of this has to be put in the context of Ireland is an expensive place to setup a company, high wages, high land/building costs etc. It's another reason not to come here.
lol the US? Maybe its the fact they don't get huge payouts for sitting on their asses that makes then entreprenurial? i dunno, maybe something to do with a market of 350m, access to cheap land, world class technology, cheaper wages, great infrastructure, educated workforce, access to other markets..
Ireland? Arse end of nowhere, small market, expensive land and workforce, draconian proposed laws
, collapsing economy, 3rd world technical infrastructure, more expensive to ship physical products to mainland europe (than building them there in the first place)..
Just some of the reasons, we have to give an advantage over other countries, do anything less and inward investment stops in it's tracks.
Ireland has to compete with other countries for business..
You can continue to deny this, but it just shows your complete lack of understanding of the wider picture...0 -
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you still don't get it do you... /sigh
In order for new business to start with external capital, people have to come from outside and setup business.... ok.. now a lot of starter companies fail (and anyone with a brain will plan for that potential eventuality), so if you are going to move you, your family, sell your house and all your possesions and move to Ireland to work for that company, you will want a safety net.. because if the company only lasts 6 months you wont have enough stamps to pay for jack.. Suddenly your staff are stuck in a country with house/car/family and no means of income, thats not an incentive for them to come here.. If you setup in the UK, which is cheaper and better serviced you have that safety net if it's needed.. why would you come to Ireland in the first place? So yes, companies do look at if they able to attract the right sort of staff to give them a competitive advantage... You may not believe that, but I have 20 years experience working for international companies and it is exactly the they of thing that will factor into the equation.
All of this has to be put in the context of Ireland is an expensive place to setup a company, high wages, high land/building costs etc. It's another reason not to come here.
lol the US? Maybe its the fact they don't get huge payouts for sitting on their asses that makes then entreprenurial? i dunno, maybe something to do with a market of 350m, access to cheap land, world class technology, cheaper wages, great infrastructure, educated workforce, access to other markets..
Ireland? Arse end of nowhere, small market, expensive land and workforce, draconian proposed laws, collapsing economy, 3rd world technical infrastructure, more expensive to ship physical products to mainland europe (than building them there in the first place)..
Just some of the reasons, we have to give an advantage over other countries, do anything less and inward investment stops in it's tracks.
Ireland has to compete with other countries for business..
You can continue to deny this, but it just shows your complete lack of understanding of the wider picture...
Huh, so that's why so many folks flock to the US to work in Silicon Valley or wherever because according to your reasoning there is a safety net for them? Really?
So, I'm lets say, oh, Russian.....I get a job offer in Silicon Valley, I think to myself, "hmmmm, better not take it just incase it doesn't work out, I mean if I move there and the company goes belly up hell, I won't have a safety net"......Em, no, you are mistaken.
And what I am saying is that non-nationals who have paid tax should, SHOULD, be able to get that tax back by way of social welfare should they ever need it. That is providing a short term safety net for the foreign highly skilled worker.0 -
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i am quite happy paying taxes as i realize how the economy works (tho people like you make me sick)
as i mentioned in other thread im in favor of the welfare system, it helps people in need if they get hit by a job loss and keeps crime down and makes it easier for people to concentrate on things such as education
i am not in favor of long term dole spongers, i would love to see a system like the US where after each year your welfare payments are halved, this way theres and incentive to find work, i was shocked to recently find that people get xmas bonuses on the dole!
and after reading this thread im after finding out that there are people sitting on the dole and instead of keeping their mouth shut and looking for work they are instead venting racist crap on the internet
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As I said quite an ignorant individual (you call me "racist"....I'll call you "ignorant"....) It is not racist to suggest that non-nationals should only recieve in social welfare that ammount which they have paid in tax.........
Of course you would love to see a system similaar to the US but then we all see the huge gaps in wealth between the haves and have nots in the States. We all see that in the States the government because of the system it follows can't even provide healthcare for its own citizens.....and as I said you want to replicate that here, well, you are in the minority on that one.....you must have been oh so sad when the PD's went bust......0 -
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As I said quite an ignorant individual (you call me "racist"....I'll call you "ignorant"....) It is not racist to suggest that non-nationals should only recieve in social welfare that ammount which they have paid in tax.........
Of course you would love to see a system similaar to the US but then we all see the huge gaps in wealth between the haves and have nots in the States. We all see that in the States the government because of the system it follows can't even provide healthcare for its own citizens.....and as I said you want to replicate that here, well, you are in the minority on that one.....you must have been oh so sad when the PD's went bust......
a bit like Ireland, in fact.0 -
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As I said quite an ignorant individual (you call me "racist"....I'll call you "ignorant"....) It is not racist to suggest that non-nationals should only recieve in social welfare that ammount which they have paid in tax.........
Of course you would love to see a system similaar to the US but then we all see the huge gaps in wealth between the haves and have nots in the States. We all see that in the States the government because of the system it follows can't even provide healthcare for its own citizens.....and as I said you want to replicate that here, well, you are in the minority on that one.....you must have been oh so sad when the PD's went bust......
why narrow down on the long term unemployed "non nationals" why not concentrate on our own long term spongers first? the figure you listed earlier show a 80/20 % split
i dont see why i should be paying for anyone to be on the dole forever and ever, no matter what their race is
tell me this, because someone is Irish does that make them superior?0 -
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What exactly is your problem? Non-nationals claiming the dole is the least of our worries in Ireland today. Are you pissed because you feel you should be getting more money instead of giving people who actually paid tax the dole when they've lost their job?
Your views are short sighted and narrow minded. Without the support of Europe "in the current climate" like you keep saying we would be in far more trouble. Treating fellow EU citizens with contempt(which is what your proposing) will not help Ireland. It will however keep closet racists like you happy :rolleyes:
We have got billions from Europe which enabled us to develop and transform into a modern society in which we exist. Its ironic that without recieving money from Europe we would be still living in the dark ages(google Ireland in the 70's), no multinational would invest here, we would still be emigrating en masse working minimum wages around the world and whatever social welfare payment you currently get would probably not exist 0 -
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You seem to be very misinformed I have to say. The deciding factor, in fact if it even registers on the scale it is tiny, for foreign companies starting up in Ireland is not whether there employees will ever get social welfare should they lay them off..........
Ireland has several advantages some other EU States don't: English Speaking country, Low Corporate Tax, Highly Educated and Skilled workforce, IDA inticements and so on and so on.....Yes, we have shortcomings of course but that is not what this thread is about.
Damn I have been found out, my whole arguement has been that it was the deciding factor, i just neglected to mention that in any post i made (without pointing out the obvious that it cant actually be a consideration if it doesnt actual exist at the moment)..
I am of course completely misinformed, only having worked in international business for 20 years, and worked with friends who have setup business's all over Europe and the US..
You on the other hand, have vast experience of how international business works, and therefore quite rightly should demand we stop paying social welfare to non nationals, while being educated and getting dole while in a foreign country.
I will of course tender my resignation to my boss tomorrow, claim dole, demand foreigners leave the country and bemoan the loss of my xmas bonus.. :pac:
I really really hope you course doesn't revolve around logic and basic comprehension, otherwise I feel my tax might be wasted 0 -
What exactly is your problem?
jealousy, close mindedness, xenophobia, unfamiliarity with life/business/economics/globalisation
take a pick
Ireland as a country chose to be as interconnected as possible to the global system this has allowed this country to grow faster than the rest when the times where good but also fall harder in recent tough times (tho we are still relatively among the richest countries per capita)
Treating workers from EU or even other countries as second class citizens, rejecting any further EU integration, putting in trade barriers will send us back to the bog we crawled out of eating spuds and being the poorman of europe yet again
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