An arts degree- What good is it??

JohnG18

I really don't understand why people look down and sneer at Arts. Its a very diverse course as we all know. I had Arts down on my CAO back in the day(last year) but the lure of Science out lasted Arts. I just don't understand why people feel they are high and mighty enough to judge all Arts students.

Just out of curiousity someone mentioned that you can do Biology in NUIM I assume thats only in first year? Find it odd that you could take Biology as an Arts student past first year.

Dudess

Well, pointing out the restrictions of an arts degree is not the same as sneering at it - it's just a particular reality which, while it might not be nice to read, shouldn't be sneered at either.

I'll be a recession casualty soon - it will be my work experience that hopefully nabs me another job (god knows when though ) certainly not my arts degree/masters. My worry is, if anything, these might make employers view me as over-educated for roles that don't require third-level qualifications at all (administration). I may end up having to go back to college to do a business postgrad.

OneArt

People seem to be forgetting that an Arts degree is a brilliant choice if you want to do something with languages.

As far as I understand having a foreign language is a big plus, particularly if you want to work abroad. Furthermore doing languages through Arts can help one get into Translation/interpretation if that's your thing.

I have Maynooth and UCD Arts down at the bottom of my list in case I don't get any of my language courses. So the Arts program is definitely useful for SOME of us!

Dudess

OneArt wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting that an Arts degree is a brilliant choice if you want to do something with languages.

Not what I'm seeing on this thread - there has been a number of mentions of languages.
What I am seeing is examples of people not reading the thread properly.

In a nutshell: an arts degree is not a good idea if you don't know what you want to do career-wise. It is if you do know what you want to do - e.g. archaeology and history with the aim of being an archaeologist.

But doing e.g. sociology and geography just because you want to have a degree and in the hope that you'll somehow be inspired career-wise when you graduate, is a very bad idea. Better off doing something that gives you skills. Having skills and not knowing what you want to do is a far more desirable position to be in than having no skills and not knowing what you want to do.

An aside in relation to biology being on offer as an arts subject in Maynooth: if a person wants to become a scientist wouldn't they be expected to have a BSc rather than a BA?

OP, if you're interested in biology, why not go for a science degree? If points are of concern to you, the points for Applied Biology in Cork Institute of Technology are very low and I don't see why they'd be much higher anywhere else.

seacláid-te

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

If you're looking for a decent career, don't bother with an Arts degree. It won't help you there. Teaching is the only thing you can really specifically do with it.

Definitely not true!!

flag123

seacláid-te wrote: »

Definitely not true!!

For the majority of subjects available in an Arts course, it's true that the only thing you can do is teach.
But there are also great subjects that have great career prospects like economics or biology even...also you can get some really useless sh*t subjects that have no benefit to the working world, then again people only do the subject(s) out of interest in some cases, not career based..

Piste

Dudess wrote: »

An aside in relation to biology being on offer as an arts subject in Maynooth: if a person wants to become a scientist wouldn't they be expected to have a BSc rather than a BA?

A lot of science courses offer BAs as opposed to BScs, not sure why. The same course in Trinity and UCD could end up in a Ba and BSc respectively. It's all just a name, the course content is what really matters.

tribulus

I don't wish to be nitpicky or antagonistic but the reaility is somewhat different with science courses. While it should be about the course content and what skills you gained the reality is that for a lot of jobs in science, particularly on the more technical side of things, a BA won't do.

A HR person filtering CVs (and they've a lot of filtering to do nowadays) will throw most of the BA applications away, unless they're accompanied by a post-grad or significant and relevant experience. Where most of the BSc applications will at least get past that first glance.

I'm speaking in terms of chemical, biopharm and pharmaceutical science jobs here, though they're far and away the most abundant in Ireland.

Piste

Is that true? Like if you've a BA in pharmacology from College A and a Bsc in Pharmacology from College B and college A is reknowned for being superior to college B would they automatically disqualify you?

tribulus

Piste wrote: »

Is that true? Like if you've a BA in pharmacology from College A and a Bsc in Pharmacology from College B and college A is reknowned for being superior to college B would they automatically disqualify you?

First of all, employers in these industries couldn't give the slightest sh1t what university you went to. All they care about is what skills you have, how long will it take to train you and how much will it cost. In such a highly regulated industry these are the important questions.

I can't speak for everyone but from my limited experience as a science graduate, yes it seems to be true.

Obviously in an interview one could easily show how irrelevant it might be but they most likely won't get to that stage. It just comes down to the sheer volume of applications for jobs that they can pick and choose who they want.

JSK 252

When I was deciding what I wanted to do in the science area, with the notion of staying in Cork I had the choice of either biochem or pharmacy. I had little interest in med or dentistry. Biochem never really appealed to me as you are not qualified specifically for any job. Sure your qualified in a specific area in science but having the skills required for a job is a different story. I dont like the idea of being stuck in lab all day.

Pharmacy has simply ticked all the right boxes and thats what Im set on!

Jonathan

I am genuinely shocked at the amount of people posting here who haven't a clue about what is going on go the real world (dudess being the obvious exception).

misled leaving cert students wrote:

I'm going to do arts. I'm gonna get a job as a teacher or join the civil service.

Our public sector is bursting at the seams. Hence the terribly attractive retirement package announced last Tuesday.
The push is on to cut expenditure. We are currently borrowing 60million a day to run this country.

Where are all these jobs going to come from?

Dudess

jmccrohan wrote: »

I am genuinely shocked at the amount of people posting here who haven't a clue about what is going on go the real world (dudess being the obvious exception).

Well I suppose the fact I did my leaving cert when the majority of this year's leaving certers were aged four to six has something to do with it.
You can't blame school-goers for the way they are misled by career guidance teachers and the way third level education is put on such a pedestal - by teachers, their parents, other older relatives...

Red Sleeping Beauty

vinnyryan wrote: »

Op ignore this. Like any degree you have to seriously sit down and think we'll what do I want to get from this and will this qualification present me with such an opportunuity. The benefit of an arts degree in my humble opinion is that it provides to a certain degree some flexibility on what path you take and when but ultimately you still have to decide allbeit one might say that your making an informed decision.

An arts degree generally offers an array of subjects to choose from where you choose 4 in your first year and downsize to 2 from your second year on. What you really have to be careful about is what 4 subjects you choose obviously limits what you can go on to do from there and then when you must choose 2 the same applies. The point is that you have to have some sort of game plan really. For instance, like any career or course obviously whatever you specialise in limits what you can later do, the same way that if you are doing pass Maths in the LC we'll not every road is open to you.

I have friends that are economists, solicitors, barristers, teachers, psychologists etc. etc. all of which done a BA but do remember you have to pursue an M.A., HDip or other subsequent course dependent on what you want to do. If I may, the question you need to qualify in your mind in my view is what LC subjects/traits/interests/ do I hold a strength in and how can I engage these through a course and career.

So an Arts degree means that you can spend more time in college. Fantastic.

ChickenScratch

Just thought I'd throw in my two cent.

My entire CAO (well, okay, three or four choices) are basically arts degrees in Trinners and UCD. Why? Because I adore English and cannot see myself studying anything else. The technicalities of Law and Journalism degrees etc would bore me to tears, probably to the point of my dropping out altogether.

My dream career is to become a writer, not the most stable path I know, and barring that I haven't a clue. If I must, after Orts I'll do a year or two MA in something more dull and specific like media in order to get a proper job, but I'm getting the education I want first.

Bottom line: I know I'm a green and inexperienced LC student but, in my opinion, arts only doesn't work if you're doing it for the sake of it (like anything really). If you study Geography and French and then want to go on to an MA in psychology, you're probably a little screwed.

Do what you love, and I live in hope that we'll all be alright.

If not we can blame the recession

Jonathan

ChickenScratch wrote: »

If not we can blame the recession

Deadly. Do what you like. Even if it makes you unemployable.

4 years of free tuition fees, and then 13,000 a year for the dole.

Happy days.

Dudess

I don't think that's fair. If a person has a passion for something, then studying it for that reason alone is legitimate, in my opinion. Knowing that it may not nab them a job is better than fooling themselves it will, and it's more likely to motivate them into formulating a plan B, which seems to be the case with ChickenScratch.
ChickenScratch can't see him/herself studying/being good at more practical degrees and I don't think that should deter him/her from going to university when English is on offer.

ChickenScratch wrote: »

My entire CAO (well, okay, three or four choices) are basically arts degrees in Trinners and UCD. Why? Because I adore English and cannot see myself studying anything else.

OMG it's me in 1996!

[The technicalities of Law and Journalism degrees etc would bore me to tears, probably to the point of my dropping out altogether.

Two seemingly more "practical" disciplines that WON'T get you a job in 2009 Ireland.

My dream career is to become a writer, not the most stable path I know, and barring that I haven't a clue.

You can be a writer, you just may not make a full-time living out of it. Doing it on the side is perfectly feasible. I do it.

If I must, after Orts I'll do a year or two MA in something more dull and specific like media in order to get a proper job, but I'm getting the education I want first.

Oxymoron.
There are little to no proper jobs in media and the tiny pool that exists is just getting smaller and smaller due to cuts (NewsTalk and TV3 did massive culls recently, Independent Newspapers has been on an outsourcing rampage for the last few years). Media postgrads generally aren't held in high regard by media organisations - experience and ability are. But even then, you may only get bits of freelance.
I'd recommend you do an I.T. or business postgrad after your English BA (hopefully MA) - dull, but a point will come where you'll have to face up to the realities of making a living. I have the English degree, the media MA, now I'm thinking of doing a business-type postgrad. But I write and do bits of radio presenting on the side.
Or what about pursuing academia in English? A PhD maybe?

Bottom line: I know I'm a green and inexperienced LC student but, in my opinion, arts only doesn't work if you're doing it for the sake of it (like anything really). If you study Geography and French and then want to go on to an MA in psychology, you're probably a little screwed.

Spot on.

K4t

Shocking thread. And there was me thinking that 3rd level education was about broadening one's mind and for the first time receiving an education. Ignore the bloody recession (which will most likely be over in four or five years time) and pick a course/subjects that will make you wake up with a smile each day of college and go in there to learn and enjoy yourself. If you don't know exactly what you want to do right now, choose an arts degree and you'll have another fews years to ponder it.

Yeah.

Dudess

K4t wrote: »

Shocking thread. And there was me thinking that 3rd level education was about broadening one's mind

All well and good if you're a pensioner going back to college. Realistically, college is about preparing yourself for the workforce.

and for the first time receiving an education.

First time?

Ignore the bloody recession (which will most likely be over in four or five years time)

Yeah, stick your head in the sand...

and pick a course/subjects that will make you wake up with a smile each day of college and go in there to learn and enjoy yourself.

Agreed, to a point, but have a plan B.

If you don't know exactly what you want to do right now, choose an arts degree and you'll have another fews years to ponder it.

Worst advice ever - do not do an arts degree if you don't know what you want to do.

We

Ignoring what course you do, I personally believe, if you are in the top of your league, regardless of what line of work, there will always be jobs available to you. If you have an incredible ability to articulate and recount historical events, somebody will most likely want to hire you. Though not because of your Arts degree, which merely becomes a fundamental requisite above the Leaving Cert.

Furthermore, to assume that getting an Arts degree automatically places you in the forefront of the young, educated workforce that Ireland produces every year is ridiculous. People love to harp on about Arts degrees giving you a wider choice in what line of work you want to pursue, which I believe is total rubbish. Consider the fact that, should you want to pursue an area of work that you partly studied under your Arts degree, eg. psychology, you are automatically placed below someone who studied psychology specifically.

This is the problem with Arts degrees, they seem appealing because they offer a 'Jack of all trades' education. Unfortunately, no employer wants a Jack of all trades. Employers want to hire fully educated people, in a relevant degree, who have a history of success in said degree, and thus give a hint towards being able to handle the work involved.

Obviously, there are other important factors in employment, but for the most part, it is my perception, that typically, if you are being hired with just an arts degree and no postgrad, it is not because you studied something relevant to the job, but because you actually have a degree, and that alone is deemed enough of a requirement to have that job.



Blah. I have no intention of reading this over.. bad mood.. excuse if I sound like a dick

andrew

Arts degrees make you less employable than a more vocational degree. So, if getting a job is your one and only aim, an arts degree isn't the best option. In my opinion though, it's better to do something that interests you, and then try to get a job from there. Whats the point in doing a degree you hate, not enjoying college, and then getting a job you hate, just for the sake of having a job? Is it not better to enjoy college, and then try to find a job you like? But I suppose if you've no interests, and would find all courses equally interesting (or boring) then don't do an arts degree.

dragonfly!

ChickenScratch wrote: »

Just thought I'd throw in my two cent.

My entire CAO (well, okay, three or four choices) are basically arts degrees in Trinners and UCD. Why? Because I adore English and cannot see myself studying anything else. The technicalities of Law and Journalism degrees etc would bore me to tears, probably to the point of my dropping out altogether.

My dream career is to become a writer, not the most stable path I know, and barring that I haven't a clue. If I must, after Orts I'll do a year or two MA in something more dull and specific like media in order to get a proper job, but I'm getting the education I want first.

Bottom line: I know I'm a green and inexperienced LC student but, in my opinion, arts only doesn't work if you're doing it for the sake of it (like anything really). If you study Geography and French and then want to go on to an MA in psychology, you're probably a little screwed.

Do what you love, and I live in hope that we'll all be alright.

If not we can blame the recession

can also do english as part of a humanites course in St. Pats (but points were 425 last year )

english4490

ok and out of all the arts subjects out there, what subjects would people find most useful for future jobs or masters??!!:rolleyes:

Dudess

The obvious business/maths-type ones like computer science, economics, mathematics, mathematical physics (all are/were available at UCC).

Toto Wolfcastle

Dudess wrote: »

The obvious business/maths-type ones like computer science, economics, mathematics, mathematical physics (all are/were available at UCC).

There are restrictions on the study of computer science past 1st year in UCC. My sister did it in 1st year and loved it but couldn't continue with it for some reason.

english4490

economics is the main thing i would like to do if i dont get into my 1st choice! what else in the "humanities" would be practical/useful, for someone who wouldn be particularly mathsy or scientific? i would like history, politics and that sort of thing but as far as future careers go?? and i dont want to be a teacher!!:rolleyes:

Dudess

Then why not go for economics and history or politics? One will give you a business/financial foundation, the other is something you love. Seems like a good combination.

english4490

Dudess wrote: »

Then why not go for economics and history or politics? One will give you a business/financial foundation, the other is something you love. Seems like a good combination.

yep, seems like a pretty good back up plan!! thanks!! did anyone do or are doing any of these subjects??:eek:

nitrogen

Dudess speaks the wisest words on this thread.

A job and a library pass would probably bring you more merit and experience than an Arts degree.

Why not specialise and gain the skills in another degree (Engineering, medicine, computer science, physics, mathematics), rather than waiting four years to then focus on an area with a masters...

Dudess wrote: »

You can't blame school-goers for the way they are misled by career guidance teachers and the way third level education is put on such a pedestal - by teachers, their parents, other older relatives...

I hate that so much. And then someone doing a trade can be looked down on by some.

Dudess wrote: »

The above though, is only relevant to the question of career. If you have a passion for something (e.g. English, politics) and you long to study it and you're cool with the idea of just learning for the sake of learning and you've faced up to the possibility you may not work in a field directly related to it, then I would say go for it.

But if you are that person, surely you can pursue your passion informally and not have to be spoon fed education.

savoyard

An arts degree is not a vocational degree, it is not meant to prepare you for a specific job. But as an arts graduate, you have a hell of a lot more options than teaching or the civil service. People who graduated with me 10+ years ago are working in marketing, PR, fund management and all sorts of high level City jobs, computer programming, market research, acting, own transport companies...and very few teachers or civil servants. You don't specialise, so you don't get railroaded into a single direction.

I use the skills I got in my Arts degree every day in my job - it teaches to read masses of information and take the pertinent bits out, it teaches you communicate orally and in writing, you learn how to work under pressure cramming for those exams. Yes, you only do a few hours a week of lectures compared with engineering students, but that is because you are meant to be doing your own reading and you are responsible for managing your own time.

Very few 18 year olds know exactly what they want to do for the rest of their lives and an Arts degree is what going to university is all about: broadening your mind and learning about yourself and the world around you and giving yourself a few years to find out what you want to do. I ended up doing a masters and most of my arts friends ended up doing a post grad of some description, mostly for jobs they would never even have known existed when they were doing their leaving cert.

I have never had any bad feedback from employers about my arts degree, a 2.1 from TCD. You get out what you put in - if you do subjects you are interested in, at a decent university, you will get a lot out of it. In my experience, what a huge number of employers want is proof that a graduate is intelligent. They can learn on the job. Do what you love: you'll find it easier to get a decent grade and that is probably more important for a lot of jobs than the subjects you do, especially if you don't have your career mapped out at LC and you like the humanities at school.