An arts degree- What good is it??

nitrogen

savoyard wrote: »

...all sorts of high level City jobs, computer programming

Wouldn't an engineering or computer science degree be a little more appropriate? I've never worked with a computer programmer or software engineer with an Arts degree, but I've worked with many with no degree who had been programming since their teens and got a job in the industry after school. This is of course across the water in the UK, where they don't worship a piece of paper as highly as the Irish and value experience.

savoyard wrote: »

marketing, PR, fund management and all sorts of high level City jobs, computer programming, market research, acting, own transport companies...and very few teachers or civil servants. You don't specialise, so you don't get railroaded into a single direction.

Long gone are the days of all-roundedness. Employers want talent and experts in their field. All of these professions can be attained, through better qualifications, than by an Arts degree. Anyone can cherry pick and find people with descent jobs that come from a range of qualifications and backgrounds.

savoyard wrote: »

I use the skills I got in my Arts degree every day in my job - it teaches to read masses of information and take the pertinent bits out, it teaches you communicate orally and in writing, you learn how to work under pressure cramming for those exams.

These skills are as unique to an Arts degree, as they are to life.

english4490

ok there seems to be a lot of people here who think arts are not worth the paper they are wrote on, so out of interest what degrees are ye all doing that is "superior" to arts???

Dudess

savoyard wrote: »

But as an arts graduate, you have a hell of a lot more options than teaching or the civil service.

Depends on the subjects and what you're capable of working as surely?

People who graduated with me 10+ years ago are working in marketing, PR, fund management and all sorts of high level City jobs, computer programming, market research, acting, own transport companies...and very few teachers or civil servants. You don't specialise, so you don't get railroaded into a single direction.

As you mention further down, they did postgrads. I'm willing to bet almost none of those positions were secured on the basis of the arts degree.
I don't understand this notion that not specialising is an advantage. So being qualified for nothing in particular is more beneficial than being qualified for something? If a person gets their engineering degree this year and their friend gets their arts degree and they both end up working in a call centre... when things pick up, the engineering graduate can go for engineering jobs... what can the arts graduate go for?

Very few 18 year olds know exactly what they want to do for the rest of their lives and an Arts degree is what going to university is all about: broadening your mind and learning about yourself and the world around you and giving yourself a few years to find out what you want to do. I ended up doing a masters and most of my arts friends ended up doing a post grad of some description, mostly for jobs they would never even have known existed when they were doing their leaving cert.

I have never had any bad feedback from employers about my arts degree, a 2.1 from TCD. You get out what you put in - if you do subjects you are interested in, at a decent university, you will get a lot out of it. In my experience, what a huge number of employers want is proof that a graduate is intelligent. They can learn on the job. Do what you love: you'll find it easier to get a decent grade and that is probably more important for a lot of jobs than the subjects you do, especially if you don't have your career mapped out at LC and you like the humanities at school.

I was one of those 18-year-olds who didn't know what I wanted to do and I made the mistake of picking arts. I'm paying for it now...
I never had any bad feedback from employers about it either - just a gaping lack of acknowledgement/interest.
Going to college to get educated, broaden one's mind etc sounds like a rather luxurious path to take, especially in the current situation and with fees quite likely to be brought back (they have to be brought back - universities are crumbling under the current budgetary strain). Realistically, going to college is geared towards getting a job.

english4490 wrote: »

ok there seems to be a lot of people here who think arts are not worth the paper they are wrote on, so out of interest what degrees are ye all doing that is "superior" to arts???

I did arts (humanities only) - I'm screwed in the recession...
If I had at least done economics I'd have given myself a business/finance base.

If you're going to do arts, pick your subjects wisely.

Jonathan

english4490 wrote: »

ok there seems to be a lot of people here who think arts are not worth the paper they are wrote on, so out of interest what degrees are ye all doing that is "superior" to arts???

Computer Science, Engineering, Economics, Medicine, Nursing, Dentistry, Maths?

english4490

Dudess wrote: »

Depends on the subjects and what you're capable of working as surely?



If you're going to do arts, pick your subjects wisely.

didn't realise you did arts too, so me sees you are talking from experience? if i end up doing arts i will be doing economics and legal science in nuig, and after the 3 years i can go directly into the final year of the LLB, the bacherlor of laws.. and come out after 4 years with 2 degrees in hopefully something that will help towards employment.. can anyone tell me how mathsy does economics get as it progresses??:eek:

english4490

jmccrohan wrote: »

Computer Science, Engineering, Economics, Medicine, Nursing, Dentistry, Maths?

economics and computer sci can be arts subjects!?!

Dudess

You're right - some of those subjects can be done via the BA. Don't be getting freaked.

english4490 wrote: »

didn't realise you did arts too, so me sees you are talking from experience?

Tut tut! Read the thread fully! No seriously, read this thread from the start - there is plenty of advice on offer.
Yes, I did arts - up to MA level. I'll be out of a job shortly and it's going to be very hard to find another one. To be honest, I'm quite angry at how it was emphasised how VITAL a third level degree was when I left school. Then again, fees were only about to be abolished so an arts degree was possibly more impressive at that time than it is now, due to it being rarer.
But I know a number of people who don't have degrees (all did PLC courses) and it doesn't look like they'll be losing their jobs - any time soon at least. They haven't even heard murmerings of job losses in their respective workplaces.
A graduate with a non specific arts degree will only be able to get a mundane job - and sometimes, employers in those mundane areas would rather not take on a person who is over-educated.

if i end up doing arts i will be doing economics and legal science in nuig, and after the 3 years i can go directly into the final year of the LLB, the bacherlor of laws.. and come out after 4 years with 2 degrees in hopefully something that will help towards employment

Sounds great - go for it.

jefreywithonef

Dudess wrote: »

I was one of those 18-year-olds who didn't know what I wanted to do and I made the mistake of picking arts. I'm paying for it now...

Since you didn't know what you wanted to do, what other options would you have had? I'm in the same boat (and have chosen arts, but intend to do a post-grad in something afterwards).

djcervi

OneArt wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting that an Arts degree is a brilliant choice if you want to do something with languages.

As far as I understand having a foreign language is a big plus, particularly if you want to work abroad. Furthermore doing languages through Arts can help one get into Translation/interpretation if that's your thing.

I have Maynooth and UCD Arts down at the bottom of my list in case I don't get any of my language courses. So the Arts program is definitely useful for SOME of us!

I'm a prospective language student who is planning on doing Arts in order to study my favourite languages. I'm open to the idea of teaching but would also like the opportunity to work abroad using my multi-lingual abilities, hopeful not just in translation. Anyone has/is in this position?

Dudess

Monzo wrote: »

Since you didn't know what you wanted to do, what other options would you have had? I'm in the same boat (and have chosen arts, but intend to do a post-grad in something afterwards).

Monzo, I would probably still have done arts, but at least one practical subject - economics more than likely. It's interesting as well as practical. I just wouldn't have the ability for computer science, maths etc.

jefreywithonef

Dudess wrote: »

Monzo, I would probably still have done arts, but at least one practical subject - economics more than likely. It's interesting as well as practical. I just wouldn't have the ability for computer science, maths etc.

I'm considering economics too (although I haven't studied it as LC subject) in light of this thread but it clashes with english (in the NUIG arts omnibus) so I'm not sure.

tribulus

english4490 wrote: »

ok there seems to be a lot of people here who think arts are not worth the paper they are wrote on, so out of interest what degrees are ye all doing that is "superior" to arts???

B.Sc. in pharmacology. Tbh as far as science jobs in Ireland go it's not the best degree to have, chemistry or analytical science would be better in terms of getting a job after graduating.

Combined with a decent post-grad and a bit of experience though you can get into some interesting and non-laboratory areas, although you could arguably say the same thing for a lot of degrees with regards to a post-grad and experience!

english4490

tribulus wrote: »

Combined with a decent post-grad and a bit of experience though you can get into some interesting and non-laboratory areas, although you could arguably say the same thing for a lot of degrees with regards to a post-grad and experience!

probably true for most courses out there really! its all in the experiance! :rolleyes:

english4490

Dudess wrote: »

You're right - some of those subjects can be done via the BA. Don't be getting freaked.

Tut tut! Read the thread fully! No seriously, read this thread from the start - there is plenty of advice on offer.
Yes, I did arts - up to MA level. I'll be out of a job shortly and it's going to be very hard to find another one. To be honest, I'm quite angry at how it was emphasised how VITAL a third level degree was when I left school. Then again, fees were only about to be abolished so an arts degree was possibly more impressive at that time than it is now, due to it being rarer.
But I know a number of people who don't have degrees (all did PLC courses) and it doesn't look like they'll be losing their jobs - any time soon at least. They haven't even heard murmerings of job losses in their respective workplaces.
A graduate with a non specific arts degree will only be able to get a mundane job - and sometimes, employers in those mundane areas would rather not take on a person who is over-educated.

Sounds great - go for it.

thanks , i must read through all this, quite a lot of activity on the thread so i must start at the begining and see what i missed out on earlier!!

spudz21

OP, I would seriously recommend doing a general science degree, I was 17 doing my leaving cert, honestly didnt have a clue what I wanted to do or what direction I wanted to go. Put down a whole range of courses on my cao and ended up getting the general science one. Looking back now( a year out of college), I am so glad that was the course I did!
If you have any interest in any science subject in school ( I remember I only liked biology) then go for it!
You can specialise after two years of doing general science subjects like biology, chem, geography, geology etc
Even if Science isn't the career path you want to go down the degree will equip you with valuble skills for the workplace, such as analytical, problem-solving, logical skills etc which are applicable to any profession!
Any science degree is a great foundation!
Thats my 2cents:cool::p

Dudess

english4490 wrote: »

probably true for most courses out there really! its all in the experiance! ya i know thats a load of ****e

It's not at all a load of ****e though - experience plus a degree is far better than a degree alone. Makes sense.

spudz21 wrote: »

OP, I would seriously recommend doing a general science degree, I was 17 doing my leaving cert, honestly didnt have a clue what I wanted to do or what direction I wanted to go. Put down a whole range of courses on my cao and ended up getting the general science one. Looking back now( a year out of college), I am so glad that was the course I did!
If you have any interest in any science subject in school ( I remember I only liked biology) then go for it!
You can specialise after two years of doing general science subjects like biology, chem, geography, geology etc
Even if Science isn't the career path you want to go down the degree will equip you with valuble skills for the workplace, such as analytical, problem-solving, logical skills etc which are applicable to any profession!
Any science degree is a great foundation!
Thats my 2cents:cool::p

I agree. Science isn't for everyone (I was useless at it) but OP, seeing asyou mentioned biology, why not go down that road completely? I see so many science jobs - research etc (and there's now the new joint research initiative between TCD and UCD which is apparently set to create a considerable number of jobs). Renewable/sustainable energy is apparently going to become a major area of employment.

english4490

Dudess wrote: »

It's not at all a load of ****e though - experience plus a degree is far better than a degree alone. Makes sense.

when i said its all in the experience i meant in the more mockingly and abstract experience of life! obviously experience can make a huge difference to your cv and employment aspirations!:rolleyes: ya i edited my earlier comment it was realy not explaining what i meant at all!!

budsie

Then why not go for economics and history or politics? One will give you a business/financial foundation, the other is something you love. Seems like a good combination.

Yeah, I'm planning on doing Economics instead of English with History in NUIG for that reason. It's both practical and interesting!

Économiste Monétaire

Business and economics have next to nothing in common. If you want a practical course, economics is not for you. A lot of what you'll study at undergrad level is abstract theory, with some applied work in later stages. If your interest lies in finance, consider the UCD Economics and Finance course.

budsie

Useful would be a better word than practical,then.

Dudess

Indeed - I meant finance more specifically. I agree, it consists mostly of theory, but this has still proven to be of benefit for people I know who ended up in investment banking etc.

Remmy

This is a good thread.I have to say I'm am the token 18 year old who is thinking of doing an arts and doesn't know what to do afterwards.I was thinking of maybe joining the gardai or the cadets but that has to be stalled for a few years due to the current climate.The only thing I'm half decent at is biology.I got a b2 in it in the mocks and did mediocre in everything else:(

I don't think I want to be a teacher,I have no flair in languages do you think I should think about a general science degree instead?

Ps,Dudess,
You were more informative in this thread than my guidance counsellor or going to higher options:D

dvpower

Peppapig wrote: »

Ok I'm a little conflustered about college courses. I'm not sure what I want to put on my cao. At the moment I have one course down on it (MH101 Maynooth- the arts degree).

I was talking to a teacher a while back about what to do because I said I wasn't sure and he suggested the arts degree. He said, " Oh its great because you can come out of the course with a higher level degree".

But what good is it?

I plan to do maybe french, biology or geography in the degree. I would much apprieciate some advice from experience. Would you advise me to do it?

Do you not have any idea what you want to do (when you grow up)?

You seem to be picking your course based on the subjects you like, or are good at (french, biology or geography), and not based on what you might want to do long term.

If this is the case, then do the most broad and interesting and non demanding arts degree you can. It'll while away the time between school and unemployment.

JackKelly

If you don't know what you want to do in college yet, take a year out! There is no point starting any degree (be it Arts, Science, Maths, Business or whatever) if you don't know whether you are interested in it or not.

I'm currently finishing a degree that wasn't even on my CAO when I started college, and while it will stand to me in the long run, I have zero interest in starting a career with it. That means that I will more then likely- after taking some time off- be starting a master or an other degree in an unrelated field. Furthermore, I feel to a certain extent that the last four years have been a waste.

I think people are pushed into college far too easily these days. If you do ok in the Leaving Cert, it is assumed that you will go to college, which is unfair. There is also an attitude of "if you don't know what you want to do, do a general degree". Not only is this a waste of money (be it the taxpayers, or soon to be the students), it's a complete waste of four years. There is no rush to finish college.

If you know what you want to do in college, what you enjoy, and what you think you would be interested in doing after college, then the arguement of "you won't get a job" is moot. If you are doing something you like, be it Arts, Science or basket weaving, you will be able to make money out of it no matter what.

Basically, don't pick any degree in haste. Don't pick any degree based on status. Don't pick any degree based on specific job prospects. It's four years of work that will be made much much much easier if you enjoy it.

teednab-el

Ok, I did an Arts degree myself so I know what I'm talking about. In 2004, I did my LC and went straight to college to do an Arts degree. Not only did I pick my choices unwisely back then but I also made the mistake of choosing a masters that I was not interested in getting a job in. I was naive in thinking that a BA degree and MA would offer me good career potential. Now I'm unemployed for 5 months and worried about my future and may not get a job at all more than likely.

I was always interested in computing and IT as it is a hobby of mine. Before my LC I wanted to do an IT or computer based course but I was put off the idea by my career advisor and by many people who said that it was not a secure industry. In the first year of my Arts degree loads of people put me off the idea of computer science as they told me that there was huge dropout rates and that alone put me off duing this subject. So i did History Geography Sociology and English, and went on to finish my degree in Geography and History. I'm now sorry, I didnt do IT related course the first time out after all that. Im considering doing a postgrad in it now but I feel its been a waste of 4 years (3 years BA, 1 year MA) for me anyway.


An Arts degree is not necessarily a bad degree... You can branch out with an Arts Degree BUT you must consider your options very CAREFULLY when selecting your subjects and you need to have a fair idea of what you want to do out of it.

Dont just do something because you like it...try to find out what jobs can get with that subject. Write out a list of possible career directions you could go with the subjects in mind. Its well worth doing the research.

Duchess has offered some good advice that should be taken on board.

Dudess

Remmy wrote: »

The only thing I'm half decent at is biology.

Ah jaysus - no-brainer! Applied Biosciences was only 200 points in Cork Institute of Technology last year.

Ps,Dudess,
You were more informative in this thread than my guidance counsellor or going to higher options:D

Cheers Remmy. I'd love to do some sort of career guidance work... but guess what? No jobs! Although maybe I could look into setting up my own business...

TimAy wrote: »

I feel to a certain extent that the last four years have been a waste.

teednab-el wrote:

I feel its been a waste of 4 years (3 years BA, 1 year MA) for me anyway.

What grinds my gears is that old chestnut "education is never a waste". Grrr. Usually blabbed by pensioners. Eh... it often really, really is a waste.
BUT... you can't think like that. You made decisions that felt like the right ones at the time and there's no going back, so be positive. You have degrees which indicate you're not short of a few brain cells - be proud.

If you know what you want to do in college, what you enjoy, and what you think you would be interested in doing after college, then the arguement of "you won't get a job" is moot. If you are doing something you like, be it Arts, Science or basket weaving, you will be able to make money out of it no matter what.

Not really true I'm afraid. I did something I enjoy and I'm on the job hunt at the moment - anything I'm suitable for has zero requirement for what I studied at college.

teednab-el wrote: »

I was naive in thinking that a BA degree and MA would offer me good career potential. Now I'm unemployed for 5 months and worried about my future and may not get a job at all more than likely.

Similar to me - although I got my qualifications during the boom and you literally could walk into a job, so I was able to get lots of admin experience which stands to me now. I'd recommend you do a Microsoft Office/ECDL type course with word processing asap (Get on to Fás).

I was always interested in computing and IT as it is a hobby of mine. Before my LC I wanted to do an IT or computer based course but I was put off the idea by my career advisor and by many people who said that it was not a secure industry. In the first year of my Arts degree loads of people put me off the idea of computer science as they told me that there was huge dropout rates and that alone put me off duing this subject.

And they considered humanities more beneficial did they? :rolleyes:
Seriously, this stupidity has to stop. Young people are being really screwed around by individuals who quite obviously haven't a clue.
Do the I.T./Computer Science postgrad if you can. At least you'll have a practical course to your name even if you don't get something immediately. My cousin did a BA and then for a few years did some crappy job a chimp could do and which he certainly would have got without the BA... then he did some computer postgrad in UL last year and yes, it's been hard for him to get work - simply because of the timing, but with persistence he eventually got a contract for a decent length of time.

regob

i truly believe do a course that interests you dont worry bout a career, i study economics, i had an interest in it, a carrer never came into my mind when i was choosing nwhat to study in college

english4490

regob wrote: »

i truly believe do a course that interests you dont worry bout a career, i study economics, i had an interest in it, a carrer never came into my mind when i was choosing nwhat to study in college

did you study economics through arts ya??? where'd you do it, not nuig by any chance??

regob

english4490 wrote: »

did you study economics through arts ya??? where'd you do it, not nuig by any chance??

no im a second year single honours economics student in belfast, if ya have any questions pm me

english4490

regob wrote: »

no im a second year single honours economics student in belfast, if ya have any questions pm me

just out of interest, because if i get my first choice there will be a lot of economics involved. i am doing economics for the leaving and love it, but does it get very mathsy and completely different to leaving cert economics? obvioulsy its much more detailed etc but is it very different from what you know/have heard?