Boyfriend won't commit after 10 years

LegacyUser

As the title says..we've been together 10 years now and we have our own home the last 4 years. After about 5 years together I started to broach the subject of where we were going etc..and I got no-where. He would freeze up and say I was nagging him and then we'd end up arguing. So eventually he said when we started to have kids we would get engaged. Let me make this clear, I have no interest in a big white wedding or expensive ring and he knows this. My best mate got engaged with a ring worth €150 and I thought it was beautiful and told him I would be happy enough with that. Also this would only come up maybe once or twice a year, it's not a constant battle.

Anyhoo, I am now 7 weeks pregnant and brought up the subject of the "promise" he had made me about buying a ring and he started coming up with all these excuses, he wants to buy a really expensive ring but hasn't the money for it, theres too much going on in his head right now what with the baby that he can't even think about things like that!!

I'm a my wits end. It has finally dawned on me after 10 years that I have either to except it will never happen and stay with him or just leave altogether (bit hard now with baby on the way)

Sorry for the long post.
Advice please.

Wagon

Sorry i have to ask, why do you want to get married so badly? You have a house together, you are pregnant and he's been with you for 10 years and by the looks of it plans to stick around. So why do you need the marriage thing? He already seems very much committed...

Nervous Wreck

My advice would be to stop worrying yourself. You're living together 4 years and have a kid on the way. Why would you want to complicate that with marriage? You've basically got the good parts of a marriage without the messy parts. Say you wanted to leave him tomorrow for some mad reason. No problem. If you were married now and the same happened, you'd be putting yourself through an awful lot more emotional and financial worries trying to leave. The whole institution makes so little sense to me....


But anyway, if yer dead set on the marriage thing, here goes. He doesn't seem to want to get married. You can't change that. A promise is a promise but if you force him to come good with this one, he could end up resenting you for it. Some people don't want to be married, plain and simple. Nothing to do with you. He's just not into the idea of it.... Leave him be. If he wants to get married, he'll pop the question eventually and you'll feel all the better for not having nagged him into it. If not, you can have just as happy a life together anyway.

LegacyUser

Unfortunately some guys never want to commit, although you could argue that 10 years with the one person is a commitment, I think the finality of marriage scares that sh1te out of them. I wonder if you made your current state of mind very clear to him what he might make of that. Not exactly giving him an ultimatium, but letting him know that its time for him to wake up and take some responsibilty. He's been in this relationship for a long time and its time to either make the decision to himself really or be honest with you. I can well imagine that you don't want to leave, what with being pregnant, but if he can't wake up to what you want and you're pregnant it doesn't look likely that he ever will.

Trust your gut feelings, you'll know what to do.

SarahSassy

Maybe she just wants to be married but doesnt want the big day... Its not realistic so say 'why not just accept what you have' cos if she was happy with that she would not be posting here.

OP, you need to sit him down and ask him directly what his plans are... If you dont want a child outside of marriage tell him directly and leave it with him for a while to digest... If he never wants to get married then you need to make a decision...

username123

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

My advice would be to stop worrying yourself. You're living together 4 years and have a kid on the way. Why would you want to complicate that with marriage? You've basically got the good parts of a marriage without the messy parts. Say you wanted to leave him tomorrow for some mad reason. No problem. If you were married now and the same happened, you'd be putting yourself through an awful lot more emotional and financial worries trying to leave. The whole institution makes so little sense to me....

I just cant agree with this - marraige is a morally and legally binding committment between two people who love each other that is protected by law in this country. I dont understand how its 'messy'.

From the guys point of view he has little or no rights over his child as an unmarried father, but as a husband he shares equal rights with his wife.

Just from a 'romance' viewpoint - its the strongest committment that can be made - why would two people who love each other NOT want to make it?

ManOfMystery

I have to agree, in my opinion being unmarried is actually more messy - it's a legal minefield of parental rights, etc, especially when you've been together so long and have a house/children.

Oh The Humanity

But you already own a house together and are having a child together, you cant get much more committed than that!

To my mind when the law is fixed giving men equal rights to women to their kids then thats the last excuse for the outdated 'institution' of marriage gone. And good riddance.

I think it is already irrelevant, expensive and unneccessary.

If you love someone just live together and have the kids. Work out something on paper re the kids if he is worried about future access in the event of a break up BEFORE the kids come. From your post he doesn't seem that bothered though so happy days.

Dont be wasting your time and energy on something so irrelevant and certainly dont be leaving a good solid relationship over it.

Its an antsy time being pregnant for the first time (I understand its your first?), you crave security and your thinking is all topsy turvy, that with friends/relatives saying stuff maybe, could that be unsettling you?

If so, please disregard what people say. People often come out with throw away thoughts that are not applicable to you and your situation without thinking. If you are in a state of flux sometimes these silly things they say can hit you too hard. Please concentrate on enjoying what is going on now and dont waste this precious time worrying about trivia.

username123

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

But you already own a house together and are having a child together, you cant get much more committed than that!

Course you can - you can get married.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

To my mind when the law is fixed giving men equal rights to women to their kids then thats the last excuse for the outdated 'institution' of marriage gone. And good riddance.

Whats outdated about two people legally committing to each other?

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

I think it is already irrelevant, expensive and unneccessary.

I dont know what you mean by irrelevant, expensive is a matter of what people do - a registry office wedding costs 150 euro, and the necessity of it is a purely subjective opinion based on an individuals personal wants/needs.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

If you love someone just live together and have the kids. Work out something on paper re the kids if he is worried about future access in the event of a break up BEFORE the kids come. From your post he doesn't seem that bothered though so happy days.

Nothing you work out on paper will hold up in court in the event of a break up if the couple werent married, family law trumps these 'paper' agreements.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Dont be wasting your time and energy on something so irrelevant and certainly dont be leaving a good solid relationship over it.

The OP seems to be suggesting that for her, marraige is what would solidify the relationship.

Marraige actually protects women who choose to be homemakers by entitling them to spousal maintenance and giving them inheritance rights in the event of their husbands death. And it protects the parental rights of men. I cant see any reason NOT to do it when you have come 10 years together, own a property together and are having a child together.

Silverfish

I think the point is the OP's partner never actually told her he didn't agree with marriage, never wants to get married, and would never marry her.

In fact, he told her he WOULD get engaged when they started having children.

If you have a house with someone, and are having children with someone, the time of fobbing them off over marriage, when they want to and you do not, are over. You need to be honest with this person and tell them, preferably before all these things, that you have no intention of getting married.

But to string them along for that long is extremely unfair. Either tell them no, and give them time to accept it, or tell them yes, and accept it yourself.

OP, has he explained what these 'things going on in his head' actually are?

Oh The Humanity

You need to be honest with this person and tell them, preferably before all these things, that you have no intention of getting married.

But to string them along for that long is extremely unfair. Either tell them no, and give them time to accept it, or tell them yes, and accept it yourself.

I dont know about this case but lots of times you can tell people you have no interest in marriage and they clean just dont believe you...In the end why bother saying anything...

Why should the default position be that people assume getting married is understood and you have to 'declare it' if you dont want to. I dont want to but you're not going to go around broadcasting it....why would you?

OP -has your hubby made noises in the past he has no interest in it but you hoped he's change?

Oh The Humanity

username123 wrote: »

Course you can - you can get married.

Id call that beyond commitment. Id call that legally bound to someone else forever. You dont know what they will become. No thanks.

username123 wrote: »

Whats outdated about two people legally committing to each other?

Its unflexable. The idea is you commit to someone based on how you feel about them at that point in time. Problem is things change. Then you have to divorce, load of messing, expensive, inflexable.

username123 wrote: »

I dont know what you mean by irrelevant, expensive is a matter of what people do - a registry office wedding costs 150 euro, and the necessity of it is a purely subjective opinion based on an individuals personal wants/needs.

Wasn't even thinking of the wedding but I meant, you have to split your assets, then if things go wrong you get fleeced.

username123 wrote: »

Nothing you work out on paper will hold up in court in the event of a break up if the couple werent married, family law trumps these 'paper' agreements.

Pity, that makes the equal rights for men changes even more urgent.

username123 wrote: »

The OP seems to be suggesting that for her, marraige is what would solidify the relationship.

Hmm yeh, but he dont want to.

username123 wrote: »

Marraige actually protects women who choose to be homemakers by entitling them to spousal maintenance and giving them inheritance rights in the event of their husbands death.

I dont want a mans money. I prefer to be financially independant, that way you can walk away no messing. They dont take you for granted either when you dont depend on them.

I would never take "spousal maintenance" from a man either. Money for any kids yes but for myself no.

username123 wrote: »

And it protects the parental rights of men. I cant see any reason NOT to do it when you have come 10 years together, own a property together and are having a child together.

Lesson is dont own property together if you can help it. Not always possible....

As fo the kids thing? the law needs fixed, yesterday.

Silverfish

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Why should the default position be that people assume getting married is understood and you have to 'declare it' if you dont want to. I dont want to but you're not going to go around broadcasting it....why would you?

But you wouldn't go around broadcasting that you'd propose like the OP's partner did.

SarahSassy

OP were ye trying for a baby or was it a surprise?

Lollipops23

OP i can empathise to some extent, i know how it feels to want marriage but not know exactly why!but you're having a child together and that's the biggest commitment of all. you are now bonded for life!perhaps look at the issue after the birth, for now why don't you just sit back and enjoy your pregnancy!



PS congratulations!!!!

username123

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Id call that beyond commitment. Id call that legally bound to someone else forever. You dont know what they will become. No thanks.

Well you can always seperate/divorce if things dont work out - but I would imagine the hope is that you would grow and change together in a positive manner. Its quite a negative outlook to assume things will only change for the worst.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Its unflexable. The idea is you commit to someone based on how you feel about them at that point in time. Problem is things change. Then you have to divorce, load of messing, expensive, inflexable.

Far messier with kids involved if no marraige. And far more expensive too.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Wasn't even thinking of the wedding but I meant, you have to split your assets, then if things go wrong you get fleeced.

What about the assets you build together during the course of the marriage?
Legally splitting the assets of a marriage should be equal.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Pity, that makes the equal rights for men changes even more urgent.

Agreed - should be more equal.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Hmm yeh, but he dont want to.

But he SAID he wanted to if they had kids. So its a broken promise if he has now changed his mind or was just avoiding it.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

I dont want a mans money. I prefer to be financially independant, that way you can walk away no messing. They dont take you for granted either when you dont depend on them.

I do if I agree to stay at home to raise his (and my) kids. The time I could be out earning would be taken up wth childcare.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Lesson is dont own property together if you can help it. Not always possible....

Usually not practical.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

As fo the kids thing? the law needs fixed, yesterday.

Definitely. Totally agree with that.

The point for the OP is that she thought he WOULD marry her and now is is avoiding it with silly excuses. If marriage is important to her then he should respect that and not make bad excuses to get out of it.

Silverfish

If you want to debate everything with another user, please use the pm function.

Ickle Magoo

Unregistered wrote: »

I'm a my wits end. It has finally dawned on me after 10 years that I have either to except it will never happen and stay with him or just leave altogether (bit hard now with baby on the way)

Sorry for the long post.
Advice please.

I'm not sure why there are only those two options left to you. The most sensible course of action to me would be to talk to him. Let him know that you are getting the feeling of being strung along with false promises of marriage & if getting married is really something you want to do, you both must sit down and discuss what you each want & what the other wants - and how best to proceed either both agreeing to get married, or not, or find some kind of compromise.

If you can tell him why getting married is so important to you & he can open up as to why he is freezing up or is sidestepping the issue, you would find it a bit easier to work something out.

Best of luck.

994

username123 wrote: »

From the guys point of view he has little or no rights over his child as an unmarried father, but as a husband he shares equal rights with his wife.

Not really true.

Fact is, marriage is a very different proposition for a man than for a woman; he can end up financially ruined by a divorce.

Just from a 'romance' viewpoint - its the strongest committment that can be made - why would two people who love each other NOT want to make it?

But at what point does that become, "Sign over the house and car to my name ... what, don't you TRUST me? Don't you LOVE me?"

SarahSassy

Its getting off the point telling her to not bother about getting married.

To some people getting married is important and vital when kids are involved and others, as evidenced here, dont feel marriage is at all important.

OP wants to know how to handle this situation and not to be told whether she should want to get married or not.

Silverfish

Please be aware there is a Humanities forum if you wish to debate the pros and cons of marriage.

Can we keep replies on-topic, constructive and helpful rather than debating.

CDfm

Really I hate to put a damper on marriage but marriage nowdays sort of favours the woman if you were ever to break up.

some guys -especially if they have a former relationship or have male friends or family who have been thru the family court system will be marrige phobic.

Your relationship sounds fine so maybe you should question what benefits there would be by marrying for both of you.

CathyMoran

First of all, congrats on the baby news I can understand your upset, he had previously promised to propose when you started a family and he has gone back on that. All I will say though is that being pregnant is a huge shock for both parents, planned or not and he is probably just getting used to the brilliant news. I would wait until the storm has settled after the baby is born and if he does not propose then you can consider your options.

CDfm

Forgot to say congrats on the baby. Enjoy it and things will work out.

Nervous Wreck

Edit: Oh The Humanity has actually said everything I was gonna say so I'll only add that the half-assed rebuttals from username123 don't really seem to make sense.

Sorry for going off-topic, won't happen again.

Nervous Wreck

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

...legally binding yourself to another person is insanely messy because if you ever want to break that bind, it costs an awful lot of money, time and effort to do so. Solicitors, legal separations, divorce, money issues. All piles up.

...The issue to which you are referring is presumably custody which, if the couple is together, is not an issue at all and only becomes an issue if the couple separate.

So in other words, you're happy to accept a bunch of issues if the couple separates but not a bunch of issues if a married couple separate. Not to mention if they want to commit they're not planning on any separation at all.

CDfm

bluewolf wrote: »

So in other words, you're happy to accept a bunch of issues if the couple separates but not a bunch of issues if a married couple separate. Not to mention if they want to commit they're not planning on any separation at all.

i agree in a bitter and twisted way. legally a marriage puts a relationship on an unequal footing in favour of the woman.A man is better off not marrying.

Sorry thats my view.

CDfm

CDfm wrote: »

i agree in a bitter and twisted way. legally a marriage puts a relationship on an unequal footing in favour of the woman.A man is better off not marrying.

Sorry thats my view.

If you're starting a marriage with "what can I get out of this when we inevitably break up", then yes I agree you shouldn't be marrying.

Silverfish

Silverfish wrote: »

Please be aware there is a Humanities forum if you wish to debate the pros and cons of marriage.

Can we keep replies on-topic, constructive and helpful rather than debating.

.

Taltos

Thing to keep in mind is people change - the guy that made the promise all those years ago is no longer the person you are now having a child with.

So you have to decide.
1) Say nothing - have a child and the pressures that come with that - and know in your heart he is staying with you because he loves you and your kid.
or
2) Force the issue - get married - and in 15yrs ask yourself - is he with me only because he feels he has to because we are married???

Know which I would choose.

Yes - I am married - but in my case both of us wanted it. If she had not or I had not - then we would still be together but still love each other just as much.

CDfm

bluewolf wrote: »

If you're starting a marriage with "what can I get out of this when we inevitably break up", then yes I agree you shouldn't be marrying.

Anyway -this is speculative. OP and her partner seem very nice.

While actually getting married may not be what he wants.

spinandscribble

Wagon wrote: »

Sorry i have to ask, why do you want to get married so badly? You have a house together, you are pregnant and he's been with you for 10 years and by the looks of it plans to stick around. So why do you need the marriage thing? He already seems very much committed...

i almost completely agree with you but then i think why can't the ops partner just get the piece of paper and ring sorted? i'm not the marrying type but i know that someday if i'm with a man that wants to get married (and i plan to spend the rest of m life with him) i'd get hitched just to make him happy. it wouldn't be all about me.

thebiggestjim

If you want to get married, ask him straight out to marry you. Its a yes or no answer. Dont wait or keep dropping hints. Take the initiative.

Nervous Wreck

bluewolf wrote: »

So in other words, you're happy to accept a bunch of issues if the couple separates but not a bunch of issues if a married couple separate. Not to mention if they want to commit they're not planning on any separation at all.

I'm saying there are fewer ramifications to come from a regular old couple separating than there are with a married couple and that issues rising in the separation of a non-married couple are much easier resolved (as they can be resolved independently of government law/procedures).

Wagon

spinandscribble wrote: »

i almost completely agree with you but then i think why can't the ops partner just get the piece of paper and ring sorted? i'm not the marrying type but i know that someday if i'm with a man that wants to get married (and i plan to spend the rest of m life with him) i'd get hitched just to make him happy. it wouldn't be all about me.

I'm fairly sure the OP's boyfriend said the same thing a few years ago (do it to make the other happy) but the reality of that marriage is when you sign away your independence and you both work as a couple. You're independence is lost and it's in the hands of another. It's not a fear of commitment that this lad has, it's a fear of being robbed. He's still his own man and shouldn't feel forced into signing the piece of paper to make someone happy. The same can be said for you

alegrabaroque

I`m so sorry for what your going through it must be very difficult. My personal opinion - You know in your heart if this guy truly loves you and I don`t think you`d be asking if you felt that he did. And you are most definetely not a nag! I would have left sooooo long ago I wouldn`t have tolerated this situation at all. If marriage is so unimportant to him then why not just do it? Tbh I have a guy friend who has had two longterm relationships like this one (still in one). I know he is just waiting for the right brazilian model to walk in and rock his world but this is fine because he has a back up plan that`ll sit around and wait if said model doesn`t come (something which I know and regularly, to the discust of my OH, give him a very hard time over). Its not fair because while these wonderful girls are with Mr Very Wrong their missing their chance to be with Mr Right who really loves them.
Please leave him take whatever pieces of your self respect you have remaining and go. If he genuinely loves you believe me you`ll know pretty quickly, don`t accept less than what yo deserve he has to marry you and want to do it. If not you will become a person that you respect everyday when you look in the mirror and be amazed at how strong and happy you can be without this uncertainty. If you don`t thank me in a year I would be incredibly shocked.
Your such a lovely person and you deserve all the happiness in the world please believe that! And again I really am sorry feel free to tell me I know nothing and to F$%&k off.... Wishing i`m wrong but feel someone should be honest with you. I think everyone else just doesn`t want to see a family break up but they`re not giving you enough credit.

MagicMarker

Unregistered wrote: »

I'm a my wits end. It has finally dawned on me after 10 years that I have either to except it will never happen and stay with him or just leave altogether (bit hard now with baby on the way)

Sorry for the long post.
Advice please.

LOL!!!!

You're actually considering leaving your bf over this? I'm sorry but that's just fúcking stupid.

Let's see, you're together 10 years, you've bought a house together and you're having a child together, and you think he HASN'T committed?!?!

The only reason to get married these days is to secure legal status as a father and/or next of kin. Everything else is just fairy tale bullshít.

LegacyUser

Thank you all for your replies, Some have really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I have no doubt that we are both very much in love and I was stupid to even think of leaving him over this. He is going to be such a wonderful father and the commitment he has made over the past ten years makes up for all my doubts.
Baby was planned and very much wanted.
I think my biggest problem is the hassle I've been getting from all my married friends who think he couldn't possibly love me if we're not married. I'm sick of being asked all the time when we're getting married. When they find out I'm pregnant I'll never live it down!
Plus this backward country doesn't help, all the old biddies thinking living with someone before marriage and illegitiimate kids is the biggest sin anyone can ever make. My father was one of these people and the shame my poor sister had to endure when she was pregnant and boyfriendless at 20 probably didn't help my thinking. My Dad actually moved out and refused to speak to her for years after. He barely acknowledged her little boy. He's dead now (my Dad) and I know if he was alive I'd be shunned too. I'm shamed to admit I'm nearly half embarrased to tell people I'm pregnant becasue I have no ring on my finger.
I guess the person I should be explaining all of this too is my partner.
Thanks again.

nomorebadtown

Unregistered wrote:

I think my biggest problem is the hassle I've been getting from all my married friends who think he couldn't possibly love me if we're not married. I'm sick of being asked all the time when we're getting married. When they find out I'm pregnant I'll never live it down!

Are you serious?
Please dont be listening to the poisonous nonsense your "friends" are spouting and the moment any of them give you grief over expecting your boyfriend of 10 years baby, tell them to **** off out of your life, never to return. these people are idiots.

Unregistered wrote:

Plus this backward country doesn't help, all the old biddies thinking living with someone before marriage and illegitiimate kids is the biggest sin anyone can ever make. My father was one of these people and the shame my poor sister had to endure when she was pregnant and boyfriendless at 20 probably didn't help my thinking. My Dad actually moved out and refused to speak to her for years after. He barely acknowledged her little boy. He's dead now (my Dad) and I know if he was alive I'd be shunned too.

If you recognise the backwardness of these people then why do you let it get to you? THEY ARE WRONG. What good did shunning his daughter and grandson do your father? He dies having lost a HUGE amount and if you could speak to him now, i'll wager he regrets it big time.

LegacyUser

I don;t think it's the marraige that's the problem it's the fact that he doesn't want it. Am I right?

I know exactly how you feel I was with a guy for years and he never wanted to get married and I always wondered why he never wanted to commit and then I realised that he didn't REALLY love me so I dumped him.

He then kept coming back saying that he did want to marry me blah blah blah...

I have to say it was the best decision I have ever made to leave him. I am so much happier on my own then being with a guy that doesn't love me and I can look to the future now and hope that I will meet a guy who will truly love me