What is your stance on illegal downloading??

mikemac

doolox wrote: »

I hate the ads they have on the cinema calling movies piracy theft etc. As if I care about the preserving of the lifestyles of the likes of Tom Cruise, Madonna etc and the other crazies who inhabit tinseltown, a dose of poverty would do them no harm at all.

It's the grips, assistant directors and thosuands of other staff that can't get work who will feel the pain before the stars do.

So I don't know why you're focusing on movie stars and Cribs when there is a whole industry of people who depend on getting work on some project.
For every star on a film, there are hundreds of staff earning a living.

Nick_oliveri

doolox wrote: »

I hate the ads they have on the cinema calling movies piracy theft etc. As if I care about the preserving of the lifestyles of the likes of Tom Cruise, Madonna etc and the other crazies who inhabit tinseltown, a dose of poverty would do them no harm at all.

We can all dream!

On the other hand Piracy makes money for arm dealers, drug dealers, child sex traffickers and other much more harmful denizens of parts of the world where the rule of GATT and WTO does not operate.

I will not dismiss piracy making money for some shady people, I will disagree with your choice of shady people, all of your choices are mostly self sufficient, without the aid of pirate sales. It's only really a black market when the Government deem it illegal or its not taxable(?). Money goes around and comes back around. What its spent on is a different story. Who knows, with all the negativity surrounding pirate sales, im sure it goes to feed or cloth a few down and out people.

mikemac wrote: »

It's the grips, assistant directors and hundreds of other staff that can't get work who will feel the pain before the stars do.

Can't get work? Why wouldn't they get work? Piracy? :pac:

For every star on a film, there are hundreds of staff earning a living.

Yes, but after Box office profits...

AARRRGH

doolox wrote: »

On the other hand Piracy makes money for arm dealers, drug dealers, child sex traffickers and other much more harmful denizens of parts of the world where the rule of GATT and WTO does not operate.

Come on... you could apply that logic to nearly everything.

"AL QAEDA MAKING MONEY FROM CORNER SHOPS THEY OWN. LET'S BAN CORNER SHOPS".

Nick_oliveri

mikemac wrote: »

For every star on a film, there are hundreds of staff earning a living.

Also, to add to my above post, most of these staff get a flat fee per film, not the preferred slice of the future profit. Nothing to do with piracy. Box Office films are cleaning up anyways, I really wonder if piracy really made any difference to good ol' gorgeous hollywood, aside from delaying that new model Bentley for about a day..lol

AARRRGH

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Box Office films are cleaning up anyways...

Yeah I was reading recently that Hollywood is more profitable than ever, so piracy isn't affecting them, unless of course they're worried that they are only making x trillion per year, when they want to make y trillion.

Nick_oliveri

Ahh now, im not saying that it isn't affecting independant filmakers, but you could also blame hollywood for that.

Edit: Hanna Montana is projected to make $35mil in its first night....wonderfull!

Spon Farmer

AARRRGH wrote: »

Yeah I was reading recently that Hollywood is more profitable than ever, so piracy isn't affecting them, unless of course they're worried that they are only making x trillion per year, when they want to make y trillion.

which is their right with their property

nick, how have I missed the point - if you think something is rubbish ignore it or start a campaign to make it better:cool:

TPD

ethernet wrote: »

So, in a similar light, are you saying a professional photographer wouldn't be affected by having his/her digital pictures torrented illegally?

As long as it's not used commercially I don't see the problem.

And if I'd written an essay or novel, Id be happy people were reading it, especially if I hadn't been paid by a publisher for it. And if I had, then I've already got my money from it so share away.

Edit: When I say 'especially if I hadn't been paid by a publisher for it', I mean that the work hadn't been widely advertised etc. Id be very happy if enough people were torrenting/whatevering it for me to actually hear about it.

Nick_oliveri

Spon Farmer wrote: »

if you think something is rubbish ignore it or start a campaign to make it better:cool:

Its not that I think its rubbish, its just that I dont favour thugs with a ****load of money suing random everyday people (and dead people) for a couple of albums and settling with them out of court for a fee well above their means of income. Im sure that money went to the artists. Thankfully this practice was recently discarded.

I dont agree with these ********** giving eircom a list of which sites to block, a list that eircom wont challenge, because they'll **** themselves if they get into anymore debt from the inevitible lawsuits that would arise. Then they get their lawyers to send other threatening letters to other ISP's in Ireland... Its a shítnami.. Ignore it you say...

I could go into other things but i'll leave that for now, you might miss the point again later. The one point, that I fail to comprehend you missing from my post above, is the middlemen, aka the record companies, holding all music and artists back, the artists dont need them any more. Its not just simply a case of ignore it when they are ****ing with mah internets.

AlmightyCushion

AARRRGH wrote: »

Downloading copyright material (software, music, etc.) is legal in Ireland. Uploading copyright material may not be legal -- it has yet to be tested in our courts.

Really? Do you have a link for that. I'd be interested. Cheers.

Spon Farmer

Nick, there is no need to be snarky.

stealing is stealing no matter who you steal from. if you steal you must pay the price when caught, whether your poor or not.

eircom should be allowed block websites, do you think sites offering images and video of child rape should be allowed function

artists don't need record companies, you say - I agree - but stealing music won't change that

you did call it rubbish [****e to be exact]

also, do you really need to swear that much

TPD

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Nick, there is no need to be snarky.

stealing is stealing no matter who you steal from. if you steal you must pay the price when caught, whether your poor or not.

eircom should be allowed block websites, do you think sites offering images and video of child rape should be allowed function

artists don't need record companies, you say - I agree - but stealing music won't change that

you did call it rubbish [****e to be exact]

also, do you really need to swear that much

Eircom should NOT be allowed to block sites. Censorship in any form is a terrible thing, nobody should make decisions on what I can or cannot watch.

And the child rape sites themselves should be stopped, rather than just stopping one country from ebing able to see them.

dhaddock

I think downloading is fine. IMO the big companies aren't losing money from my downloading because if I couldn't download it I wouldn't buy it and so wouldn't use it/listen to it/watch it anyway.

RedXIV

Some things i'll guilt free download. I remember when FFVII:AC came out and 3 months before hand it was going around online. I didn't care, i wanted to see it. So i downloaded it and enjoyed it. Since then i've bought 4 copies of the DVD, 3 pieces of the official merchandise and even bought the abismal PS2 game, Dirge of Cerebus for 45 quid just to complete my collection. I'll go with everyone else that says that if I really enjoy something i download, i'll buy it. I did for Iron Man the movie (which i also saw twice in cinema) and i did for Chrono Trigger on the DS.

Piracy will always exist, especially at the prices some pieces of software or media are released at, I don't always agree with the ethics of it but to be honest, the worst piracy i commit is for the DS and Nintendo are hardly a struggling company that desperatly need my money (or lack of )

Sam Vimes

Spon Farmer wrote: »

stealing is stealing no matter who you steal from. if you steal you must pay the price when caught, whether your poor or not.

It's not stealing, it's copyright infringement

Spon Farmer wrote: »

eircom should be allowed block websites, do you think sites offering images and video of child rape should be allowed function

I really hate that excuse. If there's a child rape website then the police should find the people who are running it and arrest them. It's not up to eircom or anyone to decide what I can and can't type into my address bar

evil-monkey

Overheal wrote: »

Maybe a marketer in the industry can shed some light on this but as far as I can figure the price point of 50/60 is meant to get you to think Its Worth It. Seriously. You see a game for 4.99 and the first thing you think is "wtf is wrong with it?"

Its not really the piracy factor ("We sold one but we lost 2 cos of piracy, therefore we are going to charge our honest customers 3 times as much") Though some companies seem to think that way, like EA. A sizeable chunk of their sticker price goes to continuing developments in anti-piracy software, which last - oh, sometimes a month or two on average. In other cases its been cracked within a few hours of launch. And why sell Each year of FIFA at a full 50/60, when really, those should be going for way less - closer to 30/25. It would be like paying for a new version of Windows everytime they launched a new service pack. (Incidentally, they're fools not to sell Win7 at a discount to vista users)

Now a game that gets a name for itself, and becomes largely popular, like Teamfortress, can afford to bring the price down, or set it lower. Even before release, there was Huge hype over that title (hype 10 years in the making mind you) and the price? a mere $30 US. Now $20 even though they are constantly adding new content. Where do I sign. Its a prime example of fair priced software that evidently makes a Killing for Valve Software.

With the games, only time really tells what the title is really worth. You can still see Mario RPG (SNES) closing on eBay for excesses of $60, despite the wide availability of the ROM and Emulator on the internet for the last 10+ years. And I still want to buy it

All fair points. I mean, I accept that developers have a right to sell their creations for whatever they feel they are worth. But EA made a profit this year of over 200million bucks. Surely, by halving the cost of games, they could have still turned a lovely profit, and reduced the NEED for piracy...

doolox wrote: »

I hate the ads they have on the cinema calling movies piracy theft etc. As if I care about the preserving of the lifestyles of the likes of Tom Cruise, Madonna etc and the other crazies who inhabit tinseltown, a dose of poverty would do them no harm at all.

I wouldn't condemn people for their success. If I was offered 30mil to do a flick tomorrow morning I'd sure as hell take it...

doolox wrote: »

Also on the same vein I think the music industry is begging to be defrauded by airing such programmes as Cribs, showing the houses,wealth and lifestyles of often mediocre "singers" and "songwriters" and other one-hit wonders, lifestyles and wealth their fans can only dream of.

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

The big music companies come and they dicatate the artists looks and style. Spoonfeeding ****e into the pop scene. Barely anyone has a chance with them unless they are gorgeous, skinny, unable to write their own songs and willing to whore themselves for a miniscule slice of the pie, with few exceptions.

People watch cribs. People listen to the music of the "skinny, gorgeous" artists. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that there isn't a demand for it. How many 12 year old girls would agree with you here? Not many. The big boys in the entertainment business see what the youth want, and they produce it. That's just good old fashioned business. Same way a baker sees that people want bread, so he makes it. When teen girls want to listen to some obese gal sing about how she loves driving around in her 1995 Ford Ka, I'm sure MTV will be right onto it. They are supplying the demand; same as anyone. A lot of "alternative" musicians don't fail because of the corporate giants standing in their way. They fail because nobody wants to listen to their music. Deal with it. You've just shown a gross misunderstanding of 1. capitalism and 2. the topic up for discussion. Nowhere in your argument do I see any legitimate justification of piracy. And seriously Nick, could you tone down the language? There is no need for it and is just a poor reflection on yourself.

Nick_oliveri

Spon Farmer wrote: »

also, do you really need to swear that much

Yes.

evilmonkey wrote:

You've just shown a gross misunderstanding of 1. capitalism and 2. the topic up for discussion. Nowhere in your argument do I see any legitimate justification of piracy

Im not trying to justify it. I dont really need to.

Spon Farmer

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Yes.

why?

markfla

maybe piracy is one of these things that will always happen regardless of whatever sanctions or enforements are in place....they're will always be piracy, prostitution, drug dealing....a human thing I guess

O'Coonassa

My stance is that it isn't illegal. People can share their stuff, that's OK with my laws. If the big content providers go bust then that's all the better our species will make our own content and disseminate it without having to compete with the monopoly they have. (A monopoly that engineers tastes and limits diversity) Humans have been sharing 'content' from the outset. Down the centuries plenty of people have been willing to become artists/content providers without getting a big fat cheque for it. People like that have always been around and will be around long after the likes of RIAA have faded from memory.

alanhiggy

i think its gone too far to stop people from downloading movies,software for free.too many people doing it now to stop it and millions of torrent sites with these illegal software

wolfric

Didn't read many posts but thought i'd pop this up here just incase it hasn't been mentioned before

http://www.prefixmag.com/news/seven-crimes-that-will-get-you-a-smaller-fine-than/32033/

OutlawPete

My own views are that it's okay to download about 50% of what you consuming.

If you go to the cinema a lot, buy some CDs, DVDs, go to concerts etc etc then you are supporting artists and the industry as a whole.

If a band is new then you should support them even more and go out of your way to buy their stuff.

I remember Bono saying years ago that if it wasn't for the bootleggers that used to come to the Dandelion Market in Whitehall then they would never have become what they did as it was bootlegs of their concerts that spread their music throughout Dublin.

Then more and more people starting coming to the gigs.

I think the old rule about treating people how you'd like to be treated yourself goes along way.

If I was starting out in a band then I'd despise you if you got our music for free when we have nothing but if I was minted and all was grand then I'm not going to mind if a precentage of our music is downloaded off YouTube or whatever ..

I think quality will settle it all as it did with cassette tapes .. I mean we wall had double deck players but along side all my copies were brand new cassettes also.

I like the way YouTube has iTune links now. Listen to the okay YouTube vid or get the iTune HQ MP3 on your iPod or whatever ..

Anyway, love ya's and leave ya's with a quote from Bono after Aucthung Baby was robbed and released by some charletons back in the day ..

"We invite people to bootleg our shows. We invite people to make copies, we've no problems with that, but if some guy is gonna make money off the back of this, we're gonna find out where he parks his car."

:pac:

Cabaal

netwhizkid wrote: »

Whatever about being unethical it is very unwise to torrent any software. Torrents are riddled with crap, however if you are looking for Trojans or Spam torrents are a good idea, plus they are exceptionally slow.

RAPIDSHARE FTW!

Very uninformed view in relation to torrents, thats like saying all websites are full of spyware just because you were foolish enough to visit one website with spyware and allow it to be installed.

jd83

I love my rapidshare account!!

I pay for music on itunes, go to the cinema and i have a pretty big paid for dvd collection. I still download the odd movie or tv show. I dont see it as stealing. Im not sharing it with anyone else or burning and selling what i download.

jingx3

I don't see how this is not stealing. You're taking things without paying for them.

WillieCocker

I see it as stealing.
But it's not the worst offense in my eyes and certainly not done against an "innocent victim".
A lot of people see these companies as greedy rip off merchants themselves who don't even pay the artists proper shares of the profits.
If they sold their stuff online digitally for a decent price then piracy would drop right down, i know it will never dissapear as long as we have teenagers.:D

OutlawPete

jingx3 wrote: »

I don't see how this is not stealing. You're taking things without paying for them.

If you walk past a an Art Gallery do you close your eyes .. or do you consume just a little? Is standing outside a concert and listening stealing? If your in a newsagents is flicking through the magazines stealing?

Where do you draw the line?

mark renton

Nico22 wrote: »

If you walk past a an Art Gallery do you close your eyes .. or do you consume just a little? Is standing outside a concert and listening stealing? If your in a newsagents is flicking through the magazines stealing?

Where do you draw the line?

wow - didnt think a BB fan actually knew what an art gallery was im impressed

is sticking your modified cable receiver into NTL supply and accessing channels that should be paid for stealing?

WillieCocker

john47832 wrote: »

is sticking your modified cable receiver into NTL supply and accessing channels that should be paid for stealing?

No, that's called Leeching.

mark renton

WillieCocker wrote: »

No, that's called Leeching.

i think we will need to setup a thread to obtain the meaning of "stealing"

personally if i dont get caught then I aint stealin :cool:

OutlawPete

john47832 wrote: »

wow - didnt think a BB fan actually knew what an art gallery was im impressed

You'd be surprised what a BB knows .. Reality TV is not all as it first appears. To us .. it's a social experiment

john47832 wrote: »

is sticking your modified cable receiver into NTL supply and accessing channels that should be paid for stealing?

Oh it's always stealing .. but it's only a crime if you can afford to pay and you don't. Otherwise it's misdemeanor

Nick_oliveri

Stealing is a convienient word for them to use. It is different from stealing. But you are right, that discussion is probably for another thread.

You wouldn't download a car.... would you?

MiCr0

Sam Vimes wrote: »

It's not stealing, it's copyright infringement

I really hate that excuse. If there's a child rape website then the police should find the people who are running it and arrest them. It's not up to eircom or anyone to decide what I can and can't type into my address bar

Well eircom didn't decide to do this, they were ordered by the courts.

Do you believe that the courts - who work with the police - can decide what you can get access to?

MiCr0

john47832 wrote: »

is sticking your modified cable receiver into NTL supply and accessing channels that should be paid for stealing?

yes, it is illegal

hobochris

The way I see it, It is up to the software companies such as Microsoft to make sure that their software cannot be used by people who are not licensed to do so.

IMO, its Microsoft's problem that their OS's are so easily cracked, and not the problem of the crackers who do it for a challenge.

Digital information should be freely available in all its forms, Its up to the vendors and authorities(for questionable content) to make sure it is not consumed by those who are not meant to consume it(in the vendors case people who haven't paid for the software & in the authorities case make sure questionable content cannot be viewed).

MiCr0

i think it might be interesting if people posting their background on this thread.

I work for a company that produces and sells software.

Anti

Wow, so many of you bashing torrents. Its amazingly clear that you nubs are using public trackers. Get on a good private tracker and its the exact same speed as RS. And your supprised there are virus' in some torrents, well yeah there will be when you go searching some dodgy celebrity sex tapes, or you download something that isn't confirmed by md5 hash, comments or rating.

I've been using torrents for... Well since they beginning really, and not once have i got a virus, malware or spyware. If YOU have its YOUR fault.

And where do i stand on it, i have absolutley no problem downloading movies, music, games, software etc etc. I don't feel guilty as i just dont care. If its a film i like ill go see it in the cinema. But the rest, well i wouldn't bother paying for it ever. Why buy an album with 1 or 2 good songs on it when the rest of it are fillers. Why pay for software when you dont even use it to its full potential? And why buy a game that is most likely so bugged its going to require months of patches to make it playable.

Do i feel guilty, not in the slightest. Will i keep doing it, without a doubt.

Capt'n Midnight

hobochris wrote: »

The way I see it, It is up to the software companies such as Microsoft to make sure that their software cannot be used by people who are not licensed to do so.

IMO, its Microsoft's problem that their OS's are so easily cracked, and not the problem of the crackers who do it for a challenge.

Digital information should be freely available in all its forms, Its up to the vendors and authorities(for questionable content) to make sure it is not consumed by those who are not meant to consume it(in the vendors case people who haven't paid for the software & in the authorities case make sure questionable content cannot be viewed).

so you are voting for mandatory DRM :rolleyes:

There is an issue that microsoft aledegedly would rather you pirate their products than competitiors ones so they gain market share, but that don't make it legal.

Anyone can buy a sledgehammer and a bolt cutters and a large backpack and night vision goggles and telescopic fishing rods in their local German discount stores. Will make a great defence in court that it you claim it was easy.

TBH many DRM schemes are unworkable, because it sends the wrong message to consumers, "this is ours and don't you ever forget it" instead of "giving you what you want at a price you are happy to pay"

Anyone annoyed at having to watch the antipiracy ads at the start of legit DVD's ??


There is a difference between legal and stuff that is not enforced.
Look at unaccompanied L drivers , up to 10% of the population were let loose on the roads, who knows how many people died needlessly ??

mark renton

MiCr0 wrote: »

yes, it is illegal

ok now heres the grey area

i didnt ask was it illegal - legality is straight forward - legal/illegal... black n white

i asked was it stealing - this is where it becomes subjective, my lines of morality may well differ from others

take stealing to feed yourself - if you have no money to buy food then this is pretty much acceptable

Khannie

hobochris wrote: »

Digital information should be freely available in all its forms, Its up to the vendors and authorities(for questionable content) to make sure it is not consumed by those who are not meant to consume it(in the vendors case people who haven't paid for the software & in the authorities case make sure questionable content cannot be viewed).

That's like saying that if you don't lock your car you should think it's ok that it got stolen. Frankly it's a load of bollox.

I also work for a software company.

randypriest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdRnBgq5-7w&feature=related

OutlawPete

randypriest wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdRnBgq5-7w&feature=related

Some blurb would be nice .. what are we clicking here?

OutlawPete

Khannie wrote: »

That's like saying that if you don't lock your car you should think it's ok that it got stolen. Frankly it's a load of bollox.

Well if I could download a car man I'd be driving some nice darn wheels

I see your point though but the digital age is a funny time. We can now steal things that you can't actually touch .. the first time this happened on a mass scale was in the 80's ..

First it was VHS and people saying that it was illegal to tape Dallas :pac:

Then it was Cassette recorders and we were all hold up in the box rooms recording MT USA of the simualcast

The truth is it's very hard to stop this. So the only thing the 'entertainment industry' can do is give us a 'better' product than people can 'steal' - make it a pointless exercise.

The truth is that the masses have been so far ahead of the 'entertainment industry' at nearly every turn since the internet was conceived. They are trying to stop a bolted horse.

If it wasn't for Napster there would be no iTunes for instance.

I would have no problem paying €1 to watch a movie that I could download from Sony. Then you know your not risking knackering your PC with a virus.

These companies are in a poisiton to make more money than ever before not less! I'm sick of hearing them bringing kids to court.

Vinyl was far and away the most costly and profit destroying way the 'entertainment industry' had of destributing their goods. Cassettes less so and by the time CDs / DVDs came the cost was peanuts to them

And now we have 'digital files' as a vechicle - a format than is almost costless and they still are complaining about being robbed - it's the consumer who's being robbed now!

I remember paying £17.99 for new release CD's back in the 90s .. that was a rip off. They ripped us all off and now they have the technology to rip us off like never before and that's why they are making so much noise.

I say it's simple for them to stop illegal downloading - give us value for money and it will dissappear as fast as double deck cassette recorders did.

Capt'n Midnight

Nico22 wrote: »

I would have no problem paying €1 to watch a movie that I could download from Sony. Then you know your not risking knackering your PC with a virus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal

The Sony rootkit is designed to hide any files, registry keys and processes whose name starts with the string $sys$, making it very easy for writers of worms and other malware to also hide their files by simply using the same name. Within weeks there were several trojans and worms taking advantage of this functionality in machines already compromised by the Sony rootkit.

Overheal

Its sad as well,

When I pay $15 for a DVD Movie I shouldnt have to deal with crap. You have the FBI warnings, the piracy warnings, bla bla bla, then you have previews (Advertisements) - im sorry, are you not making enough money off of my purchase?

So instead of buying it I downloaded taken. Now no BS, I can just pop in the disk and play. Satisfying.

OutlawPete

Overheal wrote: »

I downloaded Taken.

How apt

marko91

sorry i will post my views after i finish downloading this movie:P

_ZeeK_

RedXIV wrote: »

Some things i'll guilt free download. I remember when FFVII:AC came out and 3 months before hand it was going around online. I didn't care, i wanted to see it. So i downloaded it and enjoyed it. Since then i've bought 4 copies of the DVD, 3 pieces of the official merchandise and even bought the abismal PS2 game, Dirge of Cerebus for 45 quid just to complete my collection.

one for each of your DVD players?

OutlawPete

As I was replying to last post heard some guys outside and looked out and there was a few blokes breaking into an old Fait Punto next door .. now THAT's theft :pac:

Phones the cops and told them and they asked me my name and number I paniced and hung up .. no idea why, I'm sure they can tell my number.

Anway, by the time they got her the lads had helped themselves to a whole buch of stuff - not sure what.