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Concern about HKC/ Securealarm

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  • 09-04-2009 8:08pm
    #1
    gebbel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭


    I have just had the above alarm system installed into my 2 bed apartment. Cost me €600 all in to do it, but I'm not here to talk about the cost. The electrician explained to me that, should the alarm be activated, the external alarm stops after 20 minutes (as it must by law) but the internal alarm must stay on continuously until de-activated. Now that's all well and fine, but I am concerned about my neighbours should the alarm go off when I am not there. There is a duplex above me, and another apartment to one side. The internal alarm would defo keep them awake all night. I'm fairly new there and don't really trust anyone enough to give them the key. I am also very often not there, hence the reason for me getting an alarm in the first place.
    I know I should have thought of this before, but is there anything I can do?


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    #2
    Jnealon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Jnealon


    Sounds like your electrician is unlicensed and hasn't a clue. In order for the alarm to conform to EN50131 the internal and external bell need to turn off after 15 mins


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    #3
    gebbel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭gebbel


    Jnealon wrote: »
    Sounds like your electrician is unlicensed and hasn't a clue. In order for the alarm to conform to EN50131 the internal and external bell need to turn off after 15 mins

    Unlicenced yes. But he was recommended to me by 2 workmates. His price was the cheapest around. But he also did the job well. It's just that he said at the end that the internal alarm stays on until someone turns it off. He said that's the way they are. I'm just not comfortable with that as I am often not there and don't want to fall out with the neighbours. Is it possible to change the the alarm ringing length at the keypad, using the engineers access?
    PS I did ask the spark myself but he said no.


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    #4
    fred funk }{
    Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    Jnealon wrote: »
    Sounds like your electrician is unlicensed and hasn't a clue. In order for the alarm to conform to EN50131 the internal and external bell need to turn off after 15 mins

    +1

    I would get him back to reduce the time for the internal and let him know that as he isn't licenced he is breaking the law and so are you by employing him.


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    #5
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    gebbel wrote: »
    Unlicenced yes.
    His price was the cheapest around.
    Thats why!!
    gebbel wrote: »
    he said at the end that the internal alarm stays on until someone turns it off. He said that's the way they are.
    That is not the way they are.
    Put simply , he is not licenced & clearly unqualified if he doesnt know the basic programming of an alarm system.
    The internal bell can be programmed for the same as the external.
    gebbel wrote: »
    Is it possible to change the the alarm ringing length at the keypad, using the engineers access?
    PS I did ask the spark myself but he said no.
    He hasn't a clue , yes it can be done.
    He has ripped you off & now he is trying to fob you off.
    Tell him you want it done right or you will report him to the PSA.


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    #6
    gebbel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭gebbel


    I don't feel ripped off. The price was fantastic. In fact he did a very good job on the majority of the installation i.e. it works very well. Only the continuous internal alarm concerns me.


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    #7
    Jnealon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Jnealon


    "Fantastic price" = No Vat, no tax probably no insurance.
    It's cowboys like this that make it hard for the rest of us
    Just get him back to sort it out and to default the panel to EN50131


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    #8
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    gebbel wrote: »
    I don't feel ripped off. The price was fantastic. In fact he did a very good job on the majority of the installation i.e. it works very well. Only the continuous internal alarm concerns me.

    Easy to get a fantastic price when you are both acting illegally...
    He has paid no tax,no vat, no insurance, & no licence fees.
    For that you have got an alarm that is not recognised by your insurance company & will not get any Garda response if required.And is not even set up properly
    Damn right you were ripped off


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    #9
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    cossworxenergy wrote: »
    How do you know he has not paid tax,vat,insurance??
    ehh !! how exactly do you go about paying VAT & Tax on an illegal activity?
    cossworxenergy wrote: »
    That PSA licence is aload of balls
    Your opinion of it is irrelevant as it is the law.
    cossworxenergy wrote: »
    Qualified electricians should only be allowed at them.
    They are allowed .. providing they are licenced.
    cossworxenergy wrote: »
    Alot of them leave power cnnections loose.
    Thats exactly the reason why regulation & standards are required. Also possibly the reason why the above mentioned electricain is not licenced :p


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    #10
    cossworxenergy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭cossworxenergy


    Thats exactly the reason why regulation & standards are required. Also possibly the reason why the above mentioned electricain is not licenced :p[/quote]

    You dont have to be licenced to wire alarms im sure you know?

    You do however have to be licence for commisioning which we are not.

    Any commisioning we have to do is subcontracted to PSA registered companies.

    Do not intend to get a licence for alarms as our work primarily involes working with high voltage installations and not DIY alarms works.

    Im presuming you checked the PSA register for our details. When was the last time the register was updated??
    Slander is not wise and does not help Irish business. I would appreciat if you would not discuss my company again in such a manner in a public forum. :D


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    #11
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    cossworxenergy wrote: »
    You dont have to be licenced to wire alarms im sure you know?

    You do however have to be licence for commisioning which we are not.
    Please read the full thread.
    I was referring to the above mentioned, unlicenced electrician who fitted the alarm for the original poster.
    cossworxenergy wrote: »
    Do not intend to get a licence for alarms as our work primarily involes working with high voltage installations and not DIY alarms works.
    I hope when dealing with high voltages you don't follow your own advice here when dealing with underground cables.:eek:
    cossworxenergy wrote: »
    Im presuming you checked the PSA register for our details. When was the last time the register was updated??
    Slander is not wise and does not help Irish business. I would appreciat if you would not discuss my company again in such a manner in a public forum. :D
    I don't even know your company name, nor did I mention your company name so please explain
    1) How could I check PSA register
    2) How could I be accused of slander??????

    jeezz some electricians really have a thing about the PSA. But yet they don't want to install alarms??
    Maybe its the cash jobs they are losing out on??


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    #12
    cossworxenergy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭cossworxenergy


    Very sorry read your post wrong. Apologies.
    The only problem I think with regards the PSA is the fees they charge they are quite high.
    Turnover Fees for Licences (to which admin fee of €1,000 must be added) are as
    follows:
    Sectoral
    Fee
    Turnover <€625,000 €1,250
    Turnover <€1,250,000 €2,500
    Turnover <€3,750,000 €5,000
    Turnover <€10,000,000 €9,000
    Turnover >€10,000,000 €19,000

    Thats the only thing really. If the fee was lower you would have more registered. Everyone is for maintaining good practice without doubt. The PSA is a good thing overall its getting rid of clueless installers and cowboys and provides the public with quality workmanship.


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    #13
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I agree!
    But it is quite sickening to see the OP blatently state they are breaking the law & boast they are getting good value. When in actual fact these cowboys are ripping them off & they cant even see it.


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    #14
    fishdog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭fishdog


    cossworxenergy:
    The only problem I think with regards the PSA is the fees they charge they are quite high.
    One of the many problems, yes. This money can only be recovered by passing on the cost to the customer. As kookid correctly points out the license fee inflates the price:
    gebbel: Unlicenced yes.
    His price was the cheapest around.

    Koolkid: Thats why!!


    There is no evidence to back up this statement at all:
    "Fantastic price" = No Vat, no tax probably no insurance.


    Back to your problem gebbel. This issue can be solved easily. Tell your electrician this can be changed in the programme. I have installed many of these alarms. If he has problems PM me.

    Good luck!

    My last post on the matter, no time to argue!


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    #15
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    fishdog wrote: »
    There is no evidence to back up this statement at all
    It is fairly obvious by the OP s posts that this electrician hasn't the first clue about alarms. Lads a week in the job would know how to programme bell timers.
    Like with any trade you get what you pay for.
    How many illegal operators do you know that pay VAT ,Tax & Insurance??
    fishdog wrote: »
    Back to your problem gebbel. This issue can be solved easily. Tell your electrician this can be changed in the programme. I have installed many of these alarms. If he has problems PM me.
    Don't compound your problems by dealing with another unlicenced electrician.
    Your electrician has decieved you & ripped you off.
    Your best option here is to get a licenced engineer out to check over this guys entire work. If he can't programme the system you can be sure there are plenty more faults with it. A licenced company can correct these problems & certify the job to EN50131.I hope you have not informed your insurance company you have an alarm. This could render your policy null & void in the event of a claim.
    When you get it sorted you should then send him the bill for correcting the problems he caused by his sloppy illegal work.


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    #16
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    gebbel wrote: »
    I don't feel ripped off. The price was fantastic. In fact he did a very good job on the majority of the installation i.e. it works very well. Only the continuous internal alarm concerns me.
    he did a very good job on the majority of the installation??
    Would you not expect him to do a good job on all the installation????
    This is the only fault you know of at the moment...
    Believe me if he can't do this, which is the simpliest of tasks, I am sure he has made other mistakes which you may only discover the hard way.


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    #17
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    There is loads on this so I wont comment but a simple solution would be fit a Modem to the HKC system which it allows the modem will send a txt to 3 elected people that the alarm is ringing. Can this be made useful


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    #18
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The text dialler is a very standard device to add to any alarm.It still requires someone to come & disarm it.
    But the simplier option is to install the system right in the first place.


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    #19
    fishdog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭fishdog


    Gebbel, PM sent :)


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    #20
    gebbel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭gebbel


    fishdog wrote: »
    Gebbel, PM sent :)

    Thanks to the PM from Fishdog, I was able to easily rectify my concern using the Engineers menu. I am no longer concerned about the internal alarm going continuously. Thanks again Fishdog.

    I won't be recommending this electrician to anyone else.


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    #21
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    gebbel wrote: »
    I won't be recommending this electrician to anyone else.

    Good man. Glad you have seen the light!!


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    #22
    bushy...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭bushy...


    koolkid wrote: »
    I hope when dealing with high voltages you don't follow your own advice here when dealing with underground cables.:eek:

    Just out of interest ,

    What is wrong with "magic gel" ( ok, he should have been more specific)

    What do you consider "high voltages"


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    #23
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The correct way to join underground cables is to use a submarine joint.
    In that post it was suggest using an OBO box.
    Cant remember what the high voltage was about it was that poster that brought up he was used to dealing with higer voltages.It was that that prompted my reply you quoted.
    Totall OT by the way


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    #24
    aws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭aws


    ESB Public lighting havnt used submarine joints in years, thing of past im afraid, they used copper crimps now indevidually heat shrinking each core and making good of earths , the heat shrink over the whole joint. Perfectly good.


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    #25
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Correct & certinly better than an Obo box..:rolleyes:


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    #26
    bushy...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭bushy...


    koolkid wrote: »
    The correct way to join underground cables is to use a submarine joint.
    In that post it was suggest using an OBO box.
    Cant remember what the high voltage was about it was that poster that brought up he was used to dealing with higer voltages.It was that that prompted my reply you quoted.
    Totall OT by the way

    Ah, I was just wondering you wouldn't naturally associate alarms and high , with stuff being possibly within a child reach. The "real" "magic gel" might probably manage 6kV+ in a little box over bare crimps


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