9 premier league clubs & two scottish make the forbes rich list

everdead.ie

Man U top the list but more intresting it shows that arsenals debt is 107% 0f there worth. And 4 english clubs Where run at a loss with Villa making a parltry E1 million profit(compared to other clubs). Also the champions league win made United $68million shows what a difference it makes.

Apologies if this has already been done.


http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/08/valuable-soccer-teams-business-sportsmoney-soccer-values-09-soccer_land.html


1 Manchester United
2 Real Madrid
3 Arsenal
4 Bayern Munich
5 Liverpool
6 AC Milan
7 Barcelona
8 Chelsea
9 Juventus
10 Schalke 04
11 Tottenham Hotspur
12 Olympique Lyonnais
13 AS Roma Italy
14 Internazionale Milan
15 Hamburg SV
16 Borussia Dortmund
17 Manchester City
18 Werder Bremen
19 Newcastle United
20 VfB Stuttgart
21 Aston Villa
21 Olympique
23 Celtic
24 Everton
25 Glasgow Rangers

LuckyLloyd

Companies should be tripping over themselves to hire the financial directors of FC Hollywood imo.

redout

If United were based in America they would be worth $5 Billion easy.

OPENROAD

everdead.ie wrote: »

but more intresting it shows that arsenals debt is 107% 0f there worth.

This relates to the stadium though and the redevelopment of Highbury as far as I know so not that worrying.Also remember the club renegotiated the debt repayment term to 25 years and a lower interest rate meaning less has to be paid back each year,a debt they are easily covering at the moment.

jank

redout wrote: »

If United were based in America they would be worth $5 Billion easy.

And you are basing that on sound economic theory or figures pulled from your ass?

jank

That debt value doesnt make sense tbh. Forbes say that the value is £837m
But the debt is anywhere from 200-400 million so where is the 107% coming from?

Does anyone have reliable figures to what the debt of Arsenal is currently?

OPENROAD

jank wrote: »

That debt value doesnt make sense tbh. Forbes say that the value is £837m
But the debt is anywhere from 200-400 million so where is the 107% coming from?

Does anyone have reliable figures to what the debt of Arsenal is currently?

Overall debt for Arsenal as a group for financial year end 2008 was £ 318.1m up from last year of 268.2m,this was an expected increase and was to fund construction works at Highbury Square.

Of Arsenals overall debt of 318.1m, 250.2m are long term bonds with fixed rates of interest. The annual servicing of this debt including capital repayments is £20m.

Zebra3

redout wrote: »

If United were based in America they would be worth $5 Billion easy.

Maybe they'll make the move from Asia one day.............

jank

OPENROAD wrote: »

Overall debt for Arsenal as a group for financial year end 2008 was £ 318.1m up from last year of 268.2m,this was an expected increase and was to fund construction works at Highbury Square.

Of Arsenals overall debt of 318.1m, 250.2m are long term bonds with fixed rates of interest. The annual servicing of this debt including capital repayments is £20m.

Cheers, so does anyone know where the debt ratio of 107% is coming from?

Guy:Incognito

redout wrote: »

If United were based in America they would be worth $5 Billion easy.

Is there a comparable list for NFL or baseball that show an equivelant team valued anywhere near that?

Or is this makey uppy money?

redout

jank wrote: »

And you are basing that on sound economic theory or figures pulled from your ass?

Stekelly wrote: »

Is there a comparable list for NFL or baseball that show an equivelant team valued anywhere near that?

Or is this makey uppy money?

There are a few NFL teams worth $1 Billion or above. Now compare that to Man Utd who according to forbes are worth nearly $2 Billion. Look at Man Utd massive woldwide brand which absolutely no NFL possesses. Now stick United into one of the biggest markets in the world and add the ridiculous tv money that NFL teams receive along with massive sponsorship contracts that would open up and it becomes quite easily achievable. Man Utd are the biggest and most lucrative sports brand there is worldwide without even having a foothold in the United States.

dceire

Newcastle are 19th...that'll probably be their final league position too!

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

jank

redout wrote: »

There are a few NFL teams worth $1 Billion or above. Now compare that to Man Utd who according to forbes are worth nearly $2 Billion. Look at Man Utd massive woldwide brand which absolutely no NFL possesses. Now stick United into one of the biggest markets in the world and add the ridiculous tv money that NFL teams receive along with massive sponsorship contracts that would open up and it becomes quite easily achievable. Man Utd are the biggest and most lucrative sports brand there is worldwide without even having a foothold in the United States.

So the answer to your question, yea that figure was pulled from your ass.

You know even if the United got a bigger share of the USA market wouldn't other clubs get the same, you know a rising tide lifts all boats or are you blindly assuming that every soccer fan in the States would follow United. So if United are worth 5 billion then Real would be worth about 4 and Arsenal about the same. So your point is?? Your hypothesis could also include Martians played soccer as well. That might get another 5 billion!:p

everdead.ie

Stekelly wrote: »

Is there a comparable list for NFL or baseball that show an equivelant team valued anywhere near that?

Or is this makey uppy money?

I'll just give you the top 5's its on the same site
1 New York Knicks 613m



2 Los Angeles Lakers 584m



3 Chicago Bulls 504m



4 Detroit Pistons 480m



5 Cleveland Cavaliers 477m

and NFL

1 Dallas cowboys 1,612m
2 Washington redskins 1,538m
3 New England Patriots 1,324m
4 New York Giants 1,178m
5 New York Jets 1,170m

x in the city

dceire wrote: »

Newcastle are 19th...that'll probably be their final league position too!

Richest club in the championship, not to be scoffed at

yahoo_moe

redout wrote: »

There are a few NFL teams worth $1 Billion or above. Now compare that to Man Utd who according to forbes are worth nearly $2 Billion. Look at Man Utd massive woldwide brand which absolutely no NFL possesses. Now stick United into one of the biggest markets in the world and add the ridiculous tv money that NFL teams receive along with massive sponsorship contracts that would open up

But America loves NFL, baseball and basketball. Hence why those teams are worth huge amounts of money (along with the big Asian interest in American sports).

With a fairly crap interest rate in soccer in the US, how do you figure Utd would get huge TV and sponsorship contracts? Are they playing against Galaxy and Colorado Rapids and the likes in your argument? Is Alex Ferguson managing them? Is Wayne Rooney playing? I don't think it's an argument you can make to be honest.

yahoo_moe

jank wrote: »

Cheers, so does anyone know where the debt ratio of 107% is coming from?

Can't figure that one out either.

As an aside though, it seems that they deduct stadium debt (but not any other debt) from the value figures they provide for each club, which would certainly twist the figures a bit as well (it's a combo that favours valuable clubs whose value is based on a large debt that's not stadium-related... or Utd, in other words).

x in the city

Most Americans would struggle to know who Wayne Rooney is tbh

dceire

x in the city wrote: »

Richest club in the championship, not to be scoffed at

Wouldn't that be QPR though?

Bounty Hunter

everdead.ie wrote: »

And 4 english clubs Where run at a loss with Villa making a parltry E1 million profit(compared to other clubs).

tbh im happy Villa made a profit and made the list fullstop, we were one of the biggest spending clubs in Europe last summer and have a charity as our sponsors this year and next. In the current climate to be investing in the team making progress in the league and making a profit of anykind especially whilst improving infastructure at the club is something im very happy with no matter what other clubs are doing.

invincibleirish

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

tbh im happy Villa made a profit and made the list fullstop, we were one of the biggest spending clubs in Europe last summer and have a charity as our sponsors this year and next. In the current climate to be investing in the team making progress in the league and making a profit of anykind especially whilst improving infastructure at the club is something im very happy with no matter what other clubs are doing.

Even in the final years of Doug Villa were still skirting around the fringes of 20th, i think the list just shows how much the value of the TV money inflates a club, and how much CL money would mean to Villa. Oh well!

Neil3030

redout wrote: »

If United were based in America they would be worth $5 Billion easy.

Ridiculous statement. Their merch and TV rights would remain the same for the far-east, Europe, etc. and their gate receipts would plummet, in addition to their domestic TV revenue and sponsorship deals.

redout

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ridiculous statement. Their merch and TV rights would remain the same for the far-east, Europe, etc. and their gate receipts would plummet, in addition to their domestic TV revenue and sponsorship deals.

Wouldnt agree. For starters lets just get this straight that Man Utd are the biggest sports brand on the planet. If they were based in the US (which obviously is hypothetical) gate reciepts would be no lower maybe even higher if they had a bigger stadium. Beckham alone is evidence of this for the Galaxy were season tickets increased phemonenally and all other MLS teams gates increased dramatically whenever the Galaxy were in town just down to one man. This has been reported in the press both here and in the US. Now imagine putting the whole Man Utd setup there ? Without a doubt games would by sold out every week. US television revenue and sponsorship deals would make a mockery on their current domestic ones simply because they would be in the biggest market in the world and would have potential sponsors falling over themselves along. Most likely scenario would be that the games would be all individually sold through PPV which garners a far significant return than the Sky premiership tv deal. Barca and Real Madrid are evidence of this from Spain were they in fact they do this and earn vast sums.

Mr Alan

Redout, the galaxys ticket prices start at $14.00 & the maximum stadium capacity is 28k which afaik, is never fully sold out. They are the best supported club in the MLS. Yet you somehow think that Utds revenue from the gate would not decrease?

You seem to think Utd are bigger than the PL, you take Utd out of the English league & move them over to america, the money dries up, no new massive television deal as the american public has no interest in soccer to a large extent & the worldwide interest in Utd would diminish because they would no longer be playing the the CL & in the biggest league in the world.

Its a really silly argument cause there is so many variables involved, but quite simply, you initial post was insane......if Utd moved to America, their value would plummet, not increase.

Do you think, even involving the world wide television deals to Asia etc, that the interest would remain the same for their matches against Colerado Steel, Chivas,Chicago Fire etc when compared to their matches against Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool etc? come on now, get a grip.

*interestingly enough when searching for galaxy ticket prices, you can purchase an "all you can eat" ticket, and get as much food as you want during the game, i kid you not

Big Ears

redout wrote: »

Wouldnt agree. For starters lets just get this straight that Man Utd are the biggest sports brand on the planet. If they were based in the US (which obviously is hypothetical) gate reciepts would be no lower maybe even higher if they had a bigger stadium. Beckham alone is evidence of this for the Galaxy were season tickets increased phemonenally and all other MLS teams gates increased dramatically whenever the Galaxy were in town just down to one man. This has been reported in the press both here and in the US. Now imagine putting the whole Man Utd setup there ? Without a doubt games would by sold out every week. US television revenue and sponsorship deals would make a mockery on their current domestic ones simply because they would be in the biggest market in the world and would have potential sponsors falling over themselves along. Most likely scenario would be that the games would be all individually sold through PPV which garners a far significant return than the Sky premiership tv deal. Barca and Real Madrid are evidence of this from Spain were they in fact they do this and earn vast sums.

Well with all that considered how could you sell United so short !, they'd be worth at least $50 Billion !

Mr. Presentable

redout wrote: »

Wouldnt agree. For starters lets just get this straight that Man Utd are the biggest sports brand on the planet. If they were based in the US (which obviously is hypothetical) gate reciepts would be no lower maybe even higher if they had a bigger stadium. Beckham alone is evidence of this for the Galaxy were season tickets increased phemonenally and all other MLS teams gates increased dramatically whenever the Galaxy were in town just down to one man. This has been reported in the press both here and in the US. Now imagine putting the whole Man Utd setup there ? Without a doubt games would by sold out every week. US television revenue and sponsorship deals would make a mockery on their current domestic ones simply because they would be in the biggest market in the world and would have potential sponsors falling over themselves along. Most likely scenario would be that the games would be all individually sold through PPV which garners a far significant return than the Sky premiership tv deal. Barca and Real Madrid are evidence of this from Spain were they in fact they do this and earn vast sums.

Dear Sir,
The biggest sports brand on the planet is Tiger Woods. His value is approx what your beloved Manchester is.

Regards

N'Nuts

A more interesting feature of the table is the value to debt ratio.

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

Eand how much CL money would mean to Villa. Oh well!

cl money wouldnt make any difference to us at all tbh

we've got a billionaire owner who'll give the manager as much money as he likes without question, as hes proven

everdead.ie

Helix wrote: »

cl money wouldnt make any difference to us at all tbh

we've got a billionaire owner who'll give the manager as much money as he likes without question, as hes proven

Uniteds parent company lost 20million last year was in the press bbecause of the crazy interest they have to pay on the loans they took out to buy them in the first place. The money isn't endless.

Headshot

just look at abramovich

even he's finding it hard at the moment

monkey9

If Utd are are the richest club in the world, how come the have never ever dominated Europe?

Helix

everdead.ie wrote: »

Uniteds parent company lost 20million last year was in the press bbecause of the crazy interest they have to pay on the loans they took out to buy them in the first place. The money isn't endless.

thats very unfortunate

mr. lerner made several hundred million pounds sterling by doing absolutely nothing apart from owning lots of american dollars earlier this year due to the sterling collapse

cson

Move Utd to America.... Increase their value...

Have I ventured onto the ranting & raving forum by accident?! :eek:

Neil3030

everdead.ie wrote: »

Uniteds parent company lost 20million last year was in the press bbecause of the crazy interest they have to pay on the loans they took out to buy them in the first place. The money isn't endless.

Just so we're clear here, you know he was talking about Villa, not United, yeah?

Neil3030

redout wrote: »

Wouldnt agree. For starters lets just get this straight that Man Utd are the biggest sports brand on the planet. If they were based in the US (which obviously is hypothetical) gate reciepts would be no lower maybe even higher if they had a bigger stadium. Beckham alone is evidence of this for the Galaxy were season tickets increased phemonenally and all other MLS teams gates increased dramatically whenever the Galaxy were in town just down to one man. This has been reported in the press both here and in the US. Now imagine putting the whole Man Utd setup there ? Without a doubt games would by sold out every week. US television revenue and sponsorship deals would make a mockery on their current domestic ones simply because they would be in the biggest market in the world and would have potential sponsors falling over themselves along. Most likely scenario would be that the games would be all individually sold through PPV which garners a far significant return than the Sky premiership tv deal. Barca and Real Madrid are evidence of this from Spain were they in fact they do this and earn vast sums.

If the U.K. had the same population as the U.S.A., then yeah Man U's value might increase to nearer $5bn, but the market simply is not within the geographical boundaries of the United States of America to keep Man Utd at anything clost to their present value were they to move there.

L'prof

everdead.ie wrote: »

more intresting it shows that arsenals debt is 107% 0f there worth.

It says Arsenals value is $1200m = £816.7m, that might be about right. Then it says their debt/value is 107%??? So their debt is £873.9m??? Absolute rubbish! There's definitely a mistake in there somewhere or we would have heard of this massive debt before!