The Mess - Military Forum Off Topic Thread!

tac foley

All Russian-built MBTs from mid-70's - T-64, T-72 and so on, with the separate ammunition rather than the earlier fixed ammunition, have autoloaders. This reduction in crew numbers meant that the could build MBTs that were literally 3/4 the size of Western MBTs but with bigger guns - 125mm. They STILL have bigger main guns than any western tank - 120mm.

This tank was a T-55 firing fixed ammunition [a large steel case containing the propellant with the projectile inserted in the end]. just like a big rifle cartridge.

Dropping it CAN cause the commotion you saw.

Tsk tsk.

tac

Stovepipe

Hi there
I thought rounds like that were made live by the act of firing, ie, the concussion arms the fuse and impact sets it off.

regards
Stovepipe

tac foley

Stovepipe wrote: »

Hi there
I thought rounds like that were made live by the act of firing, ie, the concussion arms the fuse and impact sets it off.

regards
Stovepipe

Ah, yes, fuze initiation by set-back. True. On the other paw, the ammunition may have been made in the 50's and poorly stored.

However, look at the train of events - a series of rapidly-fired shots from a fifty-year old tank manned, possibly, by amateurs, followed at the right time to be a fumbled reload. Time it and you'll see what I mean.

On the other paw, please come up with a better suggestion.

tac

Explosions in the Sky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH11nOwn01E

Hey guys found this on youtube, its the passing out parade of the DFTC recruits last year, enjoy

Stovepipe

@tacfoley, the round might have been knocked or dropped onto it's primer or it could have been a misfire that went off as it was being unloaded.

regards
Stovepipe

alanmcqueen

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16515680

Gotta love the at-ready skiing into firing position at the end;)

Manic Moran

Stovepipe wrote: »

@tacfoley, the round might have been knocked or dropped onto it's primer or it could have been a misfire that went off as it was being unloaded.

regards
Stovepipe

This is all assuming that the individual who was visible standing outside the hatch (and who engaged in the aerobatics) was not the loader, and I'm not sure he wasn't. If he's fecking around with the ready rack or the breech, he won't be standing up so high in the turret.

tac foley

Manic Moran wrote: »

This is all assuming that the individual who was visible standing outside the hatch (and who engaged in the aerobatics) was not the loader, and I'm not sure he wasn't. If he's fecking around with the ready rack or the breech, he won't be standing up so high in the turret.

The loader in the T-55 operates left-handed loading and stands on right-hand side of, and slightly to the rear of, the gun breechblock, with his feet on the turret cage floor. His head is around 1.5 feet lower than the acrobat - head about level with his ankles, in fact, as the acrobat is on the TC's dicky-seat, pretending to be the TC.

Anybody else in the tank when that went off, whatever it was [and yes, I've seen a breech obturator give way with APDS up the spout] would need to be taken out with a 1" pallette knife.

tac

Manic Moran

tac foley wrote: »

Manic Moran wrote: »

This is all assuming that the individual who was visible standing outside the hatch (and who engaged in the aerobatics) was not the loader, and I'm not sure he wasn't. If he's fecking around with the ready rack or the breech, he won't be standing up so high in the turret.

The loader in the T-55 operates left-handed loading and stands on right-hand side of, and slightly to the rear of, the gun breechblock, with his feet on the turret cage floor. His head is around 1.5 feet lower than the acrobat - head about level with his ankles, in fact, as the acrobat is on the TC's dicky-seat, pretending to be the TC.

Anybody else in the tank when that went off, whatever it was [and yes, I've seen a breech obturator give way with APDS up the spout] would need to be taken out with a 1" pallette knife.

tac

Hence the problem. For most of the video, the gentleman visible is in the loader's hatch: not only is he on the right side of the turret, but you also see him chucking shell casings over the side. It is unlikely, given the sequence of events and the layout on the TC's side that the chap jettisoned was the TC.

Given that it is also unlikely that a loader in the process of loading would be ejected by an explosion, there are two likely possibilities: either the loader was not messing around with the breech or ammunition at the time, or there were two individuals on the loader's side of the turret. If the latter, which is questionable simply due to lack of space, anything goes, but if the former, a dropped round is unlikely. The two best guesses, I think, are a hangfire round which was pulled from the breech early and finally detonated when the loader was standing up, or, quite simply, whatever they were shooting at shot back.

My money's on a hangfire extracted too quickly.

NTM

Manic Moran

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/2-americans-being-honored-by-germany-for-helping-catch-terrorist-suspect-in-frankfurt-shooting/2012/01/16/gIQARMWt2P_story.html

Germany has awarded its highest civil honor to two Americans for chasing after the guy who shot two airmen at Frankfurt.

I was unaware of the shooter's motivation before reading that article. Idiot.

NTM

Donny5

The Article wrote:

Uka gave a teary confession as his Frankfurt state court trial opened in August, saying that the night before the attack he had seen a video on Facebook that purported to show American soldiers raping a teenage Muslim girl. It turned out to be a scene from the 2007 Brian De Palma anti-war film “Redacted,” taken out of context.

You weren't kidding; what a nutcase.

L.Jenkins

Just looking at the DF website. Would appear that contact information for RDF units has disappeared. Am interested in moving to a unit in Galway, Medics or Transport, since I'm moving down in a week or two. Anyone know if I'm missing the required link on the website or anyone know of relavent contact info as I may not get many opportunities to go to renmore to check it out.

discus

Strange moment... Signed into a computer on my base, and find that another boardsie has left himself signed in...

PABLOMAKIAVELI

tac foley

You've been hacked.

Change EVERYTHING.

Now.

tac

Manic Moran

Currently poncing around Australia. No Kangaroos yet, but they take their commemoration of their military quite seriously.

goldie fish

The Kangaroos do?

Manic Moran

Very much so. Dis them, and they go talk to their friends, the drop bears.

On the airplane again tomorrow afternoon. Next stop, Dublin for a few days.

helimachoptor

What are you up to these days Manic apart for Oz and Dublin, any re-deployments coming up?

Manic Moran

helimachoptor wrote: »

What are you up to these days Manic apart for Oz and Dublin, any re-deployments coming up?

No, the deployment schedule for reservists is starting to wind down. Nothing looming.

Manic Moran

Since I first put on a uniform in 1997, I have always been in a line unit. The one partial exception was when I was doubled into the Squadron Ops slot in Afghanistan, but was still able to get out and about from time to time.

My next assignment is at Joint Force Headquarters, as from from the other end of the line as it's possible to be. Not quite sure what to make of it, but at least it means less time in deserts.

NTM

helimachoptor

Just in the airport coming back from honeymoon, met a 1st LT in the marines, had a very long talk with his most recent deployment to Afghanistan

helimachoptor

Manic Moran wrote: »

Since I first put on a uniform in 1997, I have always been in a line unit. The one partial exception was when I was doubled into the Squadron Ops slot in Afghanistan, but was still able to get out and about from time to time.

My next assignment is at Joint Force Headquarters, as from from the other end of the line as it's possible to be. Not quite sure what to make of it, but at least it means less time in deserts.

NTM

Where you headed to?

tac foley

MM - You have my sympathy.

I'm very happy to relate that I never once served in the MoD or at any level of command which involved ME making the coffee.

Not once.

I always made sure that when they were looking for seat-polishers to write Power-point exercises for the upper echelons that I was always somewhere else doing something that nobody else was doing, nor wanted to.

Worked for me.

tac

murph226

Hi lads sorry didn't know where to post this , I have 23 An Cosantoir mags here that I was going to throw out if anyone is interested in them.

All in very good nick, shame to bin them, might be handy for somebody collecting them.

8x2009

9x2008

4x2007

1x2006

1x2002

PM me if you want them, not going to hang onto them for long before they get binned.

discus

Boot run. Not very far, not very hard... but in issued boots. I might as well have run in high heels, I'm that much of a bitch. Blisters and hotspots galore.

discus

Some 7 months later, and my feet are blisterproof. But my hip is ****ed, ive had two hernias repaired and my toenails still haven't grown fully back.
Not a great trade off.

tac foley

In case anybody ever wondered where all the old Wehrmacht drill instructors ended up, well, now we know............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLlfzeRCn6k

As a former soldier who most emphatically NEVER took part in any parade except my passing-out parade, THIS is VERY impressive. I offer the opinion that they are just edging better than the British Army in this respect - the lines of marching troops are almost double the length of those in the annual Trooping the Colour parade, and as straight as a die.

tac

iceage

Had to post this here as well,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXqIbWacFRQ

LOL! even funnier is the guys behind him nodding!

discus

Some of the beauties of being an unmarried, childless squaddie:

2 sirloin steaks every night.
Battery Bar in the same block as my flat.

Life is good right now.

helimachoptor

go to picture 6, can anyone explain why he's there?
http://www.independent.ie/photos/irish-defence-forces-troops-send-christmas-wishes-home-from-syria-29855812.html

tac foley

helimachoptor wrote: »

go to picture 6, can anyone explain why he's there?
http://www.independent.ie/photos/irish-defence-forces-troops-send-christmas-wishes-home-from-syria-29855812.html

Cook?

Whatever he is doing there, G*d bless him and all the Irish lads and bring them safe home.

tac

goldie fish

helimachoptor wrote: »

go to picture 6, can anyone explain why he's there?
http://www.independent.ie/photos/irish-defence-forces-troops-send-christmas-wishes-home-from-syria-29855812.html

Why wouldn't he be? He is a member of the Irish Defence forces.

Frosty McSnowballs

NS troops also deploy overseas.

Army, Naval Service and Air Corps troops are all eligible to volunteer, be selected and deploy overseas.

helimachoptor

goldie fish wrote: »

Why wouldn't he be? He is a member of the Irish Defence forces.

Didnt realise the Navy deployed on personnel on shore

tac foley

helimachoptor wrote: »

Didnt realise the Navy deployed on personnel on shore

He could be a medic, or a naval clerk [called writers], radio operator - there are many shore jobs in the naval service. Just like all soldiers are not infantry, so not all sailors sail.

tac

goldie fish

helimachoptor wrote: »

Didnt realise the Navy deployed on personnel on shore

The Navy consists of a fleet of 7 ships, each with a crew with an average of 50 people each. The Navy itself consists of over 1000 people. What do you think the others do when not at sea?

helimachoptor

goldie fish wrote: »

The Navy consists of a fleet of 7 ships, each with a crew with an average of 50 people each. The Navy itself consists of over 1000 people. What do you think the others do when not at sea?

I didnt believe they all worked on ships, i mean there is a naval base :pac:

Just didnt realise Navy personnel would be deployed with the Army

Frosty McSnowballs

helimachoptor wrote: »

I didnt believe they all worked on ships, i mean there is a naval base :pac:

Just didnt realise Navy personnel would be deployed with the Army

I can see why you were confused. But the DF as a complete entity deploy overseas. There are usually a small number of NS and AC on most missions.

They function as soldiers. There is a lot of training before any deployment, this allows all troops to be refreshed on standard infantry tactics.

Oh, happy christmas

MRnotlob606

thats actually interesting about navy sailors being deployed as soldiers

discus

Yes, as 'soldiers'

goldie fish

Everyone in the defence forces(except Chaplains) are trained as soldiers first.

Larbre34

The naval payroll and pensions section has approximately 650 uniformed staff.

Overheal

Tragic accident last week: doctors without borders facility accidentally targeted in AC-130 strike. 22 dead.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/05/afghan-forces-requested-airstrike-that-hit-hospital-in-kunduz/

Sounds like fog of war issues.

tac foley

It would seem from the Washington spokesman this morning that the location was fingered by those paragons of military efficiency, the Afghan National Army.

'Trust, but verify' - which is why the UK's military forces in 'stan rarely made a mistake, but our pals make loads of 'em.

Just like GW1.

And GW2.

There was a story going around in WW2 after the invasion in June of '44.

'If the British were bombing, then the Germans kept their heads down.

If the Germans were bombing, then the British kept their heads down.

If the Americans were bombing, then EVERYBODY kept their heads down.'

tac

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Tragic accident last week: doctors without borders facility accidentally targeted in AC-130 strike. 22 dead.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/05/afghan-forces-requested-airstrike-that-hit-hospital-in-kunduz/

Sounds like fog of war issues.

Probably, most likely Taliban engaged forces in the vicinity and retreated to buildings nearby, if not the actual building themselves. So tired of that **** hole, need to cut ties and let them get back to their biblical era lifestyles.

Manic Moran

Apparently the MSF/DWB folks failed to mark their hospital with red crosses/crescents/diamonds. It was, apparently, marked with the MSF flag.

Flag.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/img/8/9/9/i/5/0/1/o/DoctorsBordersFlag.jpg

Marked hospital. http://www.med-dept.com/images/identification_images/hosp_flag.gif

discus

Such an oversight.

Bloodwing

I wasn't too sure where to post this but this seems like the best spot. I just wanted to say thanks to all the members of the defence forces who assisted in today's state funeral. From the MP's to transport to the lads who put on refreshments and all others. It was very much noticed and appreciated. Hopefully some of the members present will see this and pass it on. Thank you.

BoJack Horseman

Any military tech nerdists will have looked at the LCS programme in the US Navy with bemusement.

$360m unit priced fast patrol vessels, armed less than an Irish Navy vessel & armoured enough to barely survive an impact with a porpoise.
So, expensive & all but useless.

The US state department yesterday announced the sale of 4 'freedom class' LCS vessels to Saudi Arabia for deployment in the Gulf.

2 things that stick out on this is the cost of the deal & what the ships will come packed with.... far & above in capabilities that US navy personnel will be serving with...

were it not for the staggering price tag, these wouldn't be half bad as light frigates.... shame US naval personnel will just have a 57m gun to face down China with instead!

details are here: http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/kingdom-saudi-arabia-multi-mission-surface-combatant-mmsc-ships

What it will be packing:
- A 76mm gun (upgraded from the standard 57mm)
- 16 vls cells
- Full of ESSM surface-to-air missiles
- 8 x Harpoon AShms
- 20mm RWS cannon
- 10 x .50cal guns per boat
- a SeaRam CIWS
- Mk 32 Torpedo Tubes

As well as a wide variety of top-notch surveilance, radar, fire control IFF, passive & active defense systems.
Plus all the usual support stuff & probably a comprehensive warranty!
So, spec wise.... pretty good.
But that $4bn - $11bn price tag doesn't stretch very far.

Manic Moran

I think you are being very unfair to the LCSs. They are very capable ships at their designed role. I took a wander around the complementary Independence class LCS-4 last week, and was very impressed. Your objection reminds me of the reception that Congress gave to the Spruances. "You're telling us that at hundreds of thousands of dollars, and nearly 8,000 tons per ship, this thing has got just two guns, an anti-submarine rocket launcher, and a self defense missile system!?" Such objections ignore many of the capabilities and built-in opportunities which were realized over the following few years to make very dangerous oceanic vessels.

When I visited, Coronado had the ASuW module fitted. Observations:

1: The "mission bay" is cavernous, and could still carry a company's worth of MOWAGs/LAVs loaded by the side ramp addition to the two large RIBs through the back. I was astounded at the amount of empty space available, even with a few 20' containers aboard

2, she was't exactly under armed, with the 57mm, two 30mm, the SeaRAM point defense launcher, and space reserved for the Hellfire VLS.

3. I saw no particular issues glaring at me about survivability. No warship today is particularly armored, relying on not getting hit in the first place. The aluminum superstructure surprised me, but the USN apparently also took incidents like Belknap and Sheffield to heart: the interior was so coated with fire countermeasures it looked like an Apollo lander.

4. I'm not a massive fan of the split control centers for the weapons, but the officer I spoke with said it worked well enough in practice.

5. Largest flight deck outside of an assault ship. With hangar space.

Bear in mind that the Saudis and U.S. Have different missions in mind. The Saudis wanted frigates, or at least very competent corvettes. The USN wanted multi-role ships to operate in the close inshore environment. Note that the USN is currently looking at a Frigate version of LCS which uses a lot of that spare capacity for a heavier, permanent weapons load out. LCS is not under armed because the U.S. Couldn't afford it, it's armed to best do the jobs the USN needs it to do.