Wish I had Carol O'Byrnes troubles?

EastWallGirl

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-faces-angry-backlash-from-rte-callers-1703797.html

But his words did not cut much ice with many irate listeners. Carol O'Byrne, a 51-year-old teacher earning €63,000, said she dared not open a pay slip because of the pension levy, and now expected to be down €800 or €900 a month.
"I am now suffering anxiety," she said, adding she would be financially insecure for the rest of her life.
"I will become a criminal rather than pay you any more tax. I will get another job and I will not pay tax. I know a person who is scamming social welfare, pretending to go to college, and it gets up my nose."

I am finding it a bit hard to feel sorry for Carol, none of it is 'fair' but most of are chipping in with a smaller salary then her.

Lizzykins

She couldn't possibly be down 8 or 9 hundred euro a month.

hellboy99

Wish I was earning €63,000 a year, I'm not even near half that amount and I get by, just.

Godge

Is she the same woman who was desperate at the thought of having to pay the mortgages on her apartments abroad?

mikemac

Those buy to let homes don't pay for themselves you know. And now tenants have the cheek to ask for rent reductions!

silverharp

EastWallGirl wrote: »

I will become a criminal rather than pay you any more tax. I will get another job and I will not pay tax.

her ranting aside , the gov have to be careful here. I wouldn't judge anyone that attempts to evade tax if taxes keep rising. At some point whatever perceived faith people have in the institutions here could disappear and it will be a case of everyone for themselves.

johnnyskeleton

silverharp wrote: »

her ranting aside , the gov have to be careful here. I wouldn't judge anyone that attempts to evade tax if taxes keep rising. At some point whatever perceived faith people have in the institutions here could disappear and it will be a case of everyone for themselves.

It's a pity people can't make gestures against tax hikes other than evading taxes. I don't think anyone in the country would have a problem paying the higher taxes (bar those who were evading taxes anyway over the last few years) if they felt that the money was being put to good use. But the overwhelming opinion seems to be that we are paying higher taxes to keep politicians, bankers, developers and to a lesser extent public servants in clover.

aare

silverharp wrote: »

her ranting aside , the gov have to be careful here. I wouldn't judge anyone that attempts to evade tax if taxes keep rising. At some point whatever perceived faith people have in the institutions here could disappear and it will be a case of everyone for themselves.

There is a great truth in that...

Firetrap

I doubt very much that she's down that much money a month. Perhaps she should open that payslip. She might be pleasantly surprised :rolleyes:

Besides, someone on €63,000 and is a public servant to boot is better off keeping their head down and not bleating about it. There's many a person who would gladly take her job, levies and all.

Lizzykins

I read yesterday that she said she had 'unwisely' invested abroad so we have a clearer picture now. Obviously the rental income from this place is not covering the mortgage. I've little or no sympathy.

mikemac

investment property in Croatia

My heart bleeds

Firetrap

She's not the first person to be caught like that and she won't be the last :rolleyes: Has she never heard of the phrase "You burnt your ar$e, go sit on the blister"

EastWallGirl

There are real issues in the budget for those of us that are PAYE earners on 'average' or little over average incomes. I do think that it will encourage bartering (legal) or black economy (illegal).

I would have her job, levies and all.

Did not know about her investment property....Hmmm, I do understand people buying a property as an investment for their retirement but until you have the deeds in your hot little hands it is still an investment and one with risk. It could be worse she could have investred in BOI or AIB shares, those pensioners are the poor bastards I feel sorry for.

At least with a house, even if it is over valued you still have a tangible building to look at...shares nothing and she has a job and she can still negotiate something with her bank.

I still dont feel sorry for her though!

zootroid

How the hell does a teacher earn 63k a year?!

Stories like this only reinforce the perception that public sector employees earn way more than private sector employees. But that debate has been done to death on this forum, so its not something I want to get into.

Still, absolutely no sympathy for her. I have sympathy for those who have been laid off with families to support. Not those with well paying jobs, who are moaning that they have to pay more tax or are being asked to contribute to their pensions.

K4t

zootroid wrote: »

How the hell does a teacher earn 63k a year?!

Skilled job and you only get that much after around 30 years of service.

Back on topic: However, I have very little sympathy for people who lost money in foreign property. They played the property ladder and lost. They have to suffer the consequences now.

Darwin

There is no mystery about teachers pay scales - the rates are published for all to see. Unlike what seems to be the typical age demographic on boards (mid twenties) she is in her fifties with most of her career behind her. The fact that she is a public sector worker is irrelevant. Most people, both public and private sector, availed of the cheap credit being fed to us by the banks and perhaps lost the run of themselves in the process. Now that things are unravelling we shouldn't lose sight of that.

ntlbell

she was in a great position

mortgage paid off.

on a great salary.

SHE put herself into her current situation by getting greedy and trying to live a life beyond her means

ntlbell

Darwin wrote: »

There is no mystery about teachers pay scales - the rates are published for all to see. Unlike what seems to be the typical age demographic on boards (mid twenties) she is in her fifties with most of her career behind her. The fact that she is a public sector worker is irrelevant. Most people, both public and private sector, availed of the cheap credit being fed to us by the banks and perhaps lost the run of themselves in the process. Now that things are unravelling we shouldn't lose sight of that.

lose sight of what?

her situation is of her own making?

correct.

K4t

Darwin wrote: »

There is no mystery about teachers pay scales - the rates are published for all to see. Unlike what seems to be the typical age demographic on boards (mid twenties) she is in her fifties with most of her career behind her. The fact that she is a public sector worker is irrelevant. Most people, both public and private sector, availed of the cheap credit being fed to us by the banks and perhaps lost the run of themselves in the process. Now that things are unravelling we shouldn't lose sight of that.

Erm, no they didn't!

copacetic

Lizzykins wrote: »

She couldn't possibly be down 8 or 9 hundred euro a month.

I don't feel particularly sorry for her but would think she could be down around that much pretty easily. Pension levey could have cost her 350-400 a month and the budget another 350 or so. So about 750 I'd say.

namenotavailablE

I cannot see how the public sector pension levy and the new income/health levy rates could cause a monthly reduction of €800+ [NET] based on a gross of €63000 per annum.

Ballpark net reduction should be around €350 per month. The pension levy would account for approx €224 per month in March and April and the new levies increase the reduction by approx €120 per month as and from May.

If anyone is interested in checking the impact of the mini-budget on their net pay, I wrote this calculator [taxcalc.eu/monthlyss] which I have checked against my own pay data. I'vereceived feedback from other users and am satisfied that it accurately calculates your net pay using the old rules for Jan to April and the new rules from May to December (it also works for fortnightly and weekly paid employees, whether public or private sector).To use it you need a payslip which shows things such as tax credits and cut-off point for the month/fortnight/week.

There are instructions contained in the spreadsheet. If anyone can't follow the instructions for using it, send an email to the address contained on the 'Instructions' worksheet in the spreadsheet and I'll try assist.

Darwin

ntlbell wrote: »

lose sight of what?

her situation is of her own making?

correct.

Yes the situation is of her own making, but she is not alone, many many people borrowed to the hilt on cheap credit to get mortgages, car loans, property abroad in both private and public sectors.

@K4t I'm speaking from experience of family/friends who work in both sectors.

copacetic

namenotavailabl wrote: »

I cannot see how the public sector pension levy and the new income/health levy rates could cause a monthly reduction of €800+ [NET] based on a gross of €63000 per annum.

Ballpark net reduction should be around €350 per month. The pension levy would account for approx €224 per month in March and April and the new levies increase the reduction by approx €120 per month as and from May.

If anyone is interested in checking the impact of the mini-budget on their net pay, I wrote this calculator [taxcalc.eu/monthlyss] which I have checked against my own pay data. I'vereceived feedback from other users and am satisfied that it accurately calculates your net pay using the old rules for Jan to April and the new rules from May to December (it also works for fortnightly and weekly paid employees, whether public or private sector).To use it you need a payslip which shows things such as tax credits and cut-off point for the month/fortnight/week.

There are instructions contained in the spreadsheet. If anyone can't follow the instructions for using it, send an email to the address contained on the 'Instructions' worksheet in the spreadsheet and I'll try assist.

According to the ey one here she would be at least €190 a month worse of after the budget.

On top of this she mentioned the mortgage interest relief which neither your calc or the ey one takes into account. I'm not sure but isn't that up to €150 a month? That takes here up to mid 300s.

Since you have seriously underestimated the budget effect I can only assume you have done the same for the pension levy.

Either way it doens't matter too much, and she appears to have exaggerated for sure but it appears she is more than 500 worse off at least and less than 800.

namenotavailablE

Thanks for your feedback- here are some points to clarify my calculations:

copacetic wrote: »

According to the ey one here she would be at least €190 a month worse of after the budget....

Since you have seriously underestimated the budget effect I can only assume you have done the same for the pension levy.

The EY calculator ignores the public sector pension levy - my calculator allows for this charge. Hence, the EY calculator underestimates the impact on the net pay of a public sector employee. Additionally, it's worth being aware that the EY calculator (unlike my own) only caters for PRSI class A employees. A public servant recruited pre 6 April 1995 is a class D employee. This impacts upon the level of PRSI payable.

The pension levy was deducted in March (and will be deducted in April) from all public sector pay. The deductions in these months are computed using the 'old' thresholds which are as follows:

Annual amount Rate of levy
First 15000 3%
Next 5000 6%
Remaining income 10%

These thresholds are allocated over a 10 month period (rather than 12 months) so the monthly values were the first €1500 @ 3%, next €500 @ 6% and remaining income at 10%. The gross deduction for a monthly salary of €5250 (€63000/12) is calculated at €400, which the calculator correctly indicates.

The new thresholds, which kick in on May 1st, are as follows:

Annual amount Rate of levy
First 15000 0%
Next 5000 5%
Next 40000 10%
Balance of income 10.5%

Again these are allocated over a 10 month period (although if anyone has a link to a verification source for this I would be happy to make any amendment if required- it's possible that the new limits are to be spread out over 8 months) and the gross monthly deduction would work out at €350 based on a salary of €5250 gross per month. My calculator originally showed a wrong value of €346 due to an error in the spreadsheet- a relatively immaterial difference but wrong nonetheless. The key point, however, is that the calculator does not seriously underestimate the impact of the pension levy.
The amended calculator correctly computes the impact of the revised levy.

copacetic wrote: »

On top of this she mentioned the mortgage interest relief which neither your calc or the ey one takes into account. I'm not sure but isn't that up to €150 a month? That takes here up to mid 300s.

You are correct in this matter- my estimate of the change in a person's net pay does not account for the change in mortgage relief (the value of this relief depends on whether you are single/ married and a first time buyer or not/ investor- see here for details: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it1.html); similarly, factors such as the extra cost of driving a diesel car, smoking or the loss from early childcare benefits are not taken into account etc. The calculator should be used as a net pay calculator which focuses solely on the impact of the mini-budget on your payslip ie net earnings from employment- this is stated on the first line of the 'Instructions' worksheet.

My original statement that a teacher on €63000 gross can expect to lose out by approx €350 NET is based on comparing the January payslip to the May payslip. The March pension levy would have resulted in net pay deduction of €212 NET (€400 gross). The May payslip shows an additional deduction of €124 compared to April. If you want, you can download the current spreadsheet and test it. I assumed a single person's standard tax credits and cut-off point apply and that no pension contributions were made by the employee in arriving at my values. FYI, the net pay for Jan and Feb for this mythical employee was €3694, March and April €3482 and May onwards €3358- hence a net reduction of €336 of which €124 is as a consequence of the mini-budget.

Feel free to revert if I can clarify anything further.

couerdelion

Many people are in the same position. No one expected salaries to be reduced and a savage budget to further reduce incomings. People were budgeting for interest rate increases when calculating affordability of investment properties, no one foresaw that the bubble would both burst and the market contract as much as it has. Did anyone budget for falling salaries?

For people to say it is sheer greed that has got people into this trouble is a little bit simplistic. Many people have bought investment properties for their retirement as they are scared the public pension won't still be around and they are hoping that the money made will be enough to keep them comforable in their old age. Not everyone bought for that reason though so I can understand the bitterness.

I do feel sorry for her. She's now facing uncertaintity in her life due to a recession that isn't of her doing.

ntlbell

Darwin wrote: »

Yes the situation is of her own making, but she is not alone, many many people borrowed to the hilt on cheap credit to get mortgages, car loans, property abroad in both private and public sectors.

@K4t I'm speaking from experience of family/friends who work in both sectors.

i don't care about the fact she works in the public sector or otherwise her problems are because of her own greed where she works is pretty much irrelevant

ntlbell

couerdelion wrote: »

I do feel sorry for her. She's now facing uncertaintity in her life due to a recession that isn't of her doing.

there would be no uncertainty if she didn't make some bad greedy choices.

her situation is of her making not the recession's

the recession didn't cause her to re-mortgage and buy investment property

ceret

EastWallGirl wrote: »

"I am now suffering anxiety," she said, adding she would be financially insecure for the rest of her life.

Highly unlikely. She has a permanent pensionable public sector job where you can't be fired.

AlekSmart

But the overwhelming opinion seems to be that we are paying higher taxes to keep politicians, bankers, developers and to a lesser extent public servants in clover.

And with each passing day it becomes clearer the the €90 Billion Toxic pile was amassed by as few as 50 (well connected) individuals,a fact which according to the Sunday Tribune was described as "bizzarre" by Dept of Finance officials...I`ll bet it was !!!

EastWallGirl

couerdelion wrote: »

Many people are in the same position. No one expected salaries to be reduced and a savage budget to further reduce incomings. People were budgeting for interest rate increases when calculating affordability of investment properties, no one foresaw that the bubble would both burst and the market contract as much as it has. Did anyone budget for falling salaries?

For people to say it is sheer greed that has got people into this trouble is a little bit simplistic. Many people have bought investment properties for their retirement as they are scared the public pension won't still be around and they are hoping that the money made will be enough to keep them comforable in their old age. Not everyone bought for that reason though so I can understand the bitterness.

I do feel sorry for her. She's now facing uncertaintity in her life due to a recession that isn't of her doing.

Partly...I think people did factor a small raise in interest rates, but what they did not factor in was that the arse was going to fall out of the property market. And that has been obvious since around 2006 a couple on average salaries could not afford to buy a house and fit it out without a 100% + mortgage and live anywhere near work.

I undersatand the concept of an investment property being your pension plan but I do not think a holiday let in Croatia meets that criteria, unless she planned to live there in her retiremement. Although as I said before although her investment is overpriced, she still can see 4 walls and a roof, I would rather that then looking at BOI & AIB shares.

sydthebeat

ive had to take a 40% pay cut in wages, i have 5 kids, 3 under 5 1/2.... so since this time last year im down roughly €17,500.....

that not to mention my pension that has been decimated down 36% from what ive paid into the bloody thing

so if this woman, with her €63K thinks she suffers from anxiety... she hasnt got a clue!!!