Are unions the cause of the mess we are in???

jimmmy

dresden8 wrote: »

Even the ones who have gotten so much money they can't spend it no matter how many luxury holidays they take?

Now that's principaled. What guys. It's a pity they could never be persuaded to return the excess money.

People on government pensions of 70 or 80 or 100 k a year a more - as reported on the RTE programme recently - were not asked - never mind persuaded - to return any excess money. People who get government money are not generally renowned for giving any of it back. Its probably hard to blame them, human nature being what it is.

dresden8

jimmmy wrote: »

People on government pensions of 70 or 80 or 100 k a year a more - as reported on the RTE programme recently - were not asked - never mind persuaded - to return any excess money. People who get government money are not generally renowned for giving any of it back. Its probably hard to blame them, human nature being what it is.

How many people was that. I await your statistics with interest.

jimmmy

dresden8 wrote: »

How many people was that. I await your statistics with interest.

There you go again. Ask your ever efficient ( lol ) mates in the C.S.O. They are the ones to give you all the statistics you want.

Darragh29

I think I'll go get two duelling pistols and get you two to take 40 paces!
:D:D

the_syco

JonathanAnon wrote: »

And I think the ironic thing is that the unions are shown to be soooo ineffective in the last few months. They could do nothing about Waterford Glass, Dell and many other companies who left. The government got sick of pandering to them for once and just went ahead with the intial levy on the Public Sector. I think they only called them back into government buildings to tell them to support what the government was doing in the budget.

LOL. The unions are only good when it comes to dealing with the government, it seems. Everyone else gives them the two fingers, and goes to Poland.

Darragh29 wrote: »

"it is simply not possible to MEASURE the contribution that a teacher makes to society". BULLSH*T!

If you look at two types of teacher: the type who goes slowly over the subjects, but ensures that they are covered very well, and you have the teacher who goes over all the subjects, very fast, and 90% of the students haven't a clue on any of it. If looked at, the former teacher may face a decrease of pay, whilst the latters pay be increased, as the latter would have thought all of the information. Badly, maybe, but does the benchmark look at how much the teacher learns, or how much the student learns. And then, if the latter, do we also take into account in how much the student actually studies?

dresden8

jimmmy wrote: »

There you go again. Ask your ever efficient ( lol ) mates in the C.S.O. They are the ones to give you all the statistics you want.

So, we're agreed, you have no statistics and you're talking sh1te.

dresden8

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think I'll go get two duelling pistols and get you two to take 40 paces!
:D:D

I'd go for that except Jimmmy would bring his mates who got mg34's from their time in the public service.

jimmmy

the_syco wrote: »

LOL. The unions are only good when it comes to dealing with the government, it seems. Everyone else gives them the two fingers, and goes to Poland.

Or elsewhere overseas. There are a few large companies I know who do not let the unions in at all, as everyone - staff included - know it would destroy the company.

Darragh29

the_syco wrote: »

If you look at two types of teacher: the type who goes slowly over the subjects, but ensures that they are covered very well, and you have the teacher who goes over all the subjects, very fast, and 90% of the students haven't a clue on any of it. If looked at, the former teacher may face a decrease of pay, whilst the latters pay be increased, as the latter would have thought all of the information. Badly, maybe, but does the benchmark look at how much the teacher learns, or how much the student learns. And then, if the latter, do we also take into account in how much the student actually studies?

There are only two types that I see. The type that are in it as a vocation, of which I have met only one during my 12 odd years in the primary and secondary education system, and the ones who are in it for the cushy number that it can be, the extending holidays, the "in service days", whatever they might be, and the lack of transparency and accountability that inherently comes with a teaching position.

jimmmy

Darragh29 wrote: »

There are only two types that I see. The type that are in it as a vocation, of which I have met only one during my 12 odd years in the primary and secondary education system, and the ones who are in it for the cushy number that it can be, the extending holidays, the "in service days", whatever they might be, and the lack of transparency and accountability that inherently comes with a teaching position.

+1

irish_bob

brendan keenan speaking on marian finucanes who made a lot of sense today

he was refering to the recent breakdown of talks betwen the goverment and the unions and how the unions threat of strike were going down like a led baloon with the majority of the public , he went on to say how any employer(negotiator )worth his or her salt who was trying to make pay cuts with thier employees ,when seeing how the other side were strugling would let them dangle in the wind , instead the goverment ( employer) threw the unions a lifeline just before thier flat tyre of a strike was going to make its grand opening

he went on to say how the goverment seems to have forgotten its role here , it is the employer , instead it now refers to the whole arrangment and its role in it as partner

the goverment has effectivley appeased a spoilt child again and again instead of acting as boss and laying down some tough ground rules

Darragh29

irish_bob wrote: »

brendan keenan speaking on marian finucanes who made a lot of sense today

he was refering to the recent breakdown of talks betwen the goverment and the unions and how the unions threat of strike were going down like a led baloon with the majority of the public , he went on to say how any employer(negotiator )worth his or her salt who was trying to make pay cuts with thier employees ,when seeing how the other side were strugling would let them dangle in the wind , instead the goverment ( employer) threw the unions a lifeline just before thier flat tyre of a strike was going to make its grand opening

he went on to say how the goverment seems to have forgotten its role here , it is the employer , instead it now refers to the whole arrangment and its role in it as partner

the goverment has effectivley appeased a spoilt child again and again instead of acting as boss and laying down some tough ground rules

I couldn't agree more with you. The role here on the part of the government as the employer as distinct from the partner, has been long departed from. It is clear that partnership can only have a purpose in good times, human nature being what it is, give people an inch and invariably a mile will ultimately be taken. That mile, or part thereof, will then never be conceded back if it is required for the common good...

jimmmy

Darragh29 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with you. The role here on the part of the government as the employer as distinct from the partner, has been long departed from. It is clear that partnership can only have a purpose in good times, human nature being what it is, give people an inch and invariably a mile will ultimately be taken. That mile, or part thereof, will then never be conceded back if it is required for the common good...

I agree too.

mikemac

Wow, seems like the benchmarking scheme was just like my old landlord who told me rent reviews only go up and never down

Not anymore