Good Friday - no alcohol sales

Count Duckula

Galvasean wrote: »

By your logic I could kick you in the nuts first thing every morning, but you'd have no right to complain because hey, at least you aren't a black slave from years gone by right?

Not at all, but I wouldn't stand there saying that I now knew how prisoners of war felt.

It's one thing to complain about a perceived injustice. It's another to drag a far worse injustice into it to further your agenda.

strobe

Count Duckula wrote: »

There's a line of criticism directed towards atheists that they all think they're the most hard done by people on the planet because those nasty religious folk won't leave them alone. When you compare your plight to that of millions of non-whites throughout history (which you did, with a hasty caveat) it's insulting to those who really have suffered.

Next time I get made to stay late by my boss I'll compare my situation to the Interment Camps of the Japanese in wartime America. Sure it's not on par, but they're both as unjust.

You can't buy alcohol for one day. That's a shame. I suppose you're not complaining about the day off though? You can't take the good of religious holidays (numerous days off work) but complain about the bad (not being able to buy alcohol). I expect you'll be whining that you just HAVE to take a day off next Christmas Day, and how awful that is and now you know how the black slaves felt.

Day off on Good Friday? Do you think all secularists work in pubs or something?

Dades

Count Duckula wrote: »

It's one thing to complain about a perceived injustice. It's another to drag a far worse injustice into it to further your agenda.

What if the example was only slightly altered?

"...if the majority think that black red-haired people have no souls, that doesn't make it okay for the government to bring in ... laws against them. Something is either right or it's not, regardless of what the mob think."

Do you really think anyone here puts this issue on a par with black rights? It's just an analogy to show a concept, no?

28064212

Count Duckula wrote: »

Sure it's not on par, but they're both as unjust.

You added in a word that Dave! didn't use

You claimed that "the majority rules". Dave! pointed out that the same argument could be used to bring in racist laws. At no stage did he suggest they were in same way equal

Count Duckula wrote: »

You can't buy alcohol for one day. That's a shame. I suppose you're not complaining about the day off though? You can't take the good of religious holidays (numerous days off work) but complain about the bad (not being able to buy alcohol). I expect you'll be whining that you just HAVE to take a day off next Christmas Day, and how awful that is and now you know how the black slaves felt.

There's no such thing as a religious day off. There are public holidays, and that's it. Good Friday is not a public holiday, no-one is entitled to a day off on Good Friday.

Some public holidays happen to coincide with religious days. That's a holdover from living in a country that was traditionally Catholic. There is no reason to change them.

strobe

Count Duckula wrote: »

Not at all, but I wouldn't stand there saying that I now knew how prisoners of war felt.

It's one thing to complain about a perceived injustice. It's another to drag a far worse injustice into it to further your agenda.

Nobody said. "Oh pubs are shut on Good Friday, now I know how slaves felt in 1700's America". Not one single person.....so ye know, what are you talking about Count?

Galvasean

Count Duckula wrote: »

Not at all, but I wouldn't stand there saying that I now knew how prisoners of war felt.

It's one thing to complain about a perceived injustice. It's another to drag a far worse injustice into it to further your agenda.

Question; Where the f#ck did anyone say they knew how the black slaves felt because they couldn't buy booze on Good Friday?
Methinks you're strawmaning...

Galvasean

strobe wrote: »

Nobody said. "Oh pubs are shut on Good Friday, now I know how slaves felt in 1700's America". Not one single person.....so ye know, what are you talking about Count?

Galvasean wrote: »

Question; Where the f#ck did anyone say they knew how the black slaves felt because they couldn't buy booze on Good Friday?

Posted at the exact same time. This is why we got 10/10 in the boards Valentine's Day match making thing.

FWIW, I don't think it's actually illegal for pubs to be open on Good Friday. They just can't sell alcohol. AFAIK they are perfectly entitled to stay open and serve food and non-alcoholic beverages. None do of course, as it wouldn't be worth paying the staff for what little they would sell.

Count Duckula

But don't you all think it makes you seem just a little bit desperate that you're upset because you're being prevented from buying drink for one day? You can't go twenty-four hours without your alcohol fix?

28064212

Count Duckula wrote: »

But don't you all think it makes you seem just a little bit desperate that you're being prevent from buying drink for one day? You can't go twenty-four hours without your alcohol fix?

Where has anybody on this thread said they can't go twenty-four hours without an alcohol fix?

Would you have a problem with alcohol sales being prohibited for all 40 days of Lent? Why? Why not?

Delirium

Count Duckula wrote: »

But don't you all think it makes you seem just a little bit desperate that you're upset because you're being prevented from buying drink for one day? You can't go twenty-four hours without your alcohol fix?

it's not one day if for whatever reason Friday night is the only night a person gets to go for a pint. It actually would end up being 2 weeks.

Irregardless of how long it is, it's not really right to impose a day abstinence on people who aren't Catholic.

Galvasean

Count Duckula wrote: »

But don't you all think it makes you seem just a little bit desperate that you're upset because you're being prevented from buying drink for one day? You can't go twenty-four hours without your alcohol fix?

Why am I even responding to this post when that point has been responded to numerous times on this thread. I (and others) have even explained it to you personally.
The Government should not force people not to be allowed buy alcohol on Good Friday because it is a Catholic tradition. If the Catholics don't want to buy alcohol then more power to them. No one is forcing them to do it if the pubs/offos are open. So why should non-Catholics be forced not to be allowed?
It's not a case of people can't go one day (when you put it in italics it makes things so much more dramatic doesn't it) without an alcohol 'fix' (imply that everyone who is opposed to the ban of alcohol sales on good Friday is some kind of addict - nice one). They surely can. Not that they necessarily need to. We can stock up beforehand. That isn't really the point though. Why should everyone be barred from purchasing alcohol on an ordinary Friday (let's call a spade a spade here because that's what it is) when it is some Catholics who don't want to drink that day? You will find that a huge number of those who do drink on Good Friday are considered (lapsed at least) Catholics.

Either absorb what I (and others) have said repeatedly or y'know continue being obtuse. Your choice.

Malari

Count Duckula wrote: »

But don't you all think it makes you seem just a little bit desperate that you're upset because you're being prevented from buying drink for one day? You can't go twenty-four hours without your alcohol fix?

There are countries where the the sale of alcohol is a lot more strictly regulated than Ireland and I've lived in one of them and coped just fine. But it's not for religious reasons. That's the issue I have. You can't drink alcohol because Jesus is dead (or whatever) is the problem.

Plus, it's not always about stocking up the day before, just so I can have a drink. Restaurants are open but can't serve a glass of wine. Ludicrous.

Count Duckula

It comes down to the majority ruling what's good for everyone based on what they believe.

I don't know about in Ireland, but here in the UK I cannot buy more than sixteen paracetamol capsules at a time. I should, really, be able to buy as many as I like, but because the majority believes that paracetamol is bad in great doses, I am prevented from buying it to stop from hurting myself.

The same is true here. The majority believe that drinking on a Friday would harm you greatly, and thus they stop you doing it. Not fair, but that's the way countries work. The government is decided by majority rule.

Hence I can't walk around the streets naked, even though I might want to.

RGDATA!

Count Duckula wrote: »

f.

The same is true here. The majority believe that drinking on a Friday would harm you greatly, and thus they stop you doing it. Not fair, but that's the way countries work. The government is decided by majority rule.

what evidence do you have that the majority here favour a Good Friday booze ban?

Delirium

Count Duckula wrote: »

It comes down to the majority ruling what's good for everyone based on what they believe.

I don't know about in Ireland, but here in the UK I cannot buy more than sixteen paracetamol capsules at a time. I should, really, be able to buy as many as I like, but because the majority believes that paracetamol is bad in great doses, I am prevented from buying it to stop from hurting myself.

The same is true here. The majority believe that drinking on a Friday would harm you greatly, and thus they stop you doing it. Not fair, but that's the way countries work. The government is decided by majority rule.

Hence I can't walk around the streets naked, even though I might want to.

thats a nonsense comparison as I can go out the day after Good Friday and drink as much as I like.

It's not for health reasons that pubs close, it's for religious reasons. If it was for health reasons the pubs would be closed every day.

Count Duckula

I'm going by the fact that it's a law passed by Catholics in a Catholic country that has never seen sufficient support rallied against it to force a repeal.

What evidence do you have to suggest a majority want it lifted?

Count Duckula

koth wrote: »

thats a nonsense comparison as I can go out the day after Good Friday and drink as much as I like.

It's not for health reasons that pubs close, it's for religious reasons. If it was for health reasons the pubs would be closed every day.

I never said it was for health reasons? I'm well aware it's done for religious reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people think it would harm you. Spiritually, perhaps, but I suspect they'd consider spiritual and religious harm more grievous than physical harm anyway.

Doctor DooM

Count Duckula wrote: »

I'm going by the fact that it's a law passed by Catholics in a Catholic country that has never seen sufficient support rallied against it to force a repeal.

What evidence do you have to suggest a majority want it lifted?

We're not a Catholic country, the reference to Catholicism having a special place in the constitution was removed a long time ago.

Malari

Count Duckula wrote: »

It comes down to the majority ruling what's good for everyone based on what they believe.

I don't know about in Ireland, but here in the UK I cannot buy more than sixteen paracetamol capsules at a time. I should, really, be able to buy as many as I like, but because the majority believes that paracetamol is bad in great doses, I am prevented from buying it to stop from hurting myself.

The same is true here. The majority believe that drinking on a Friday would harm you greatly, and thus they stop you doing it. Not fair, but that's the way countries work. The government is decided by majority rule.

Hence I can't walk around the streets naked, even though I might want to.

It's the difference between secular - health, social, tax, etc - reasons and religious reasons!

RGDATA!

Count Duckula wrote: »

I'm going by the fact that it's a law passed by Catholics in a Catholic country that has never seen sufficient support rallied against it to force a repeal.

What evidence do you have to suggest a majority want it lifted?

I didn't suggest anywhere a majority wanted it lifted, just wondering if there was any substance to what you were saying that the majority here favoured the current law.
As a side point - I don't even know how one would define a "catholic country" - I accept that catholicism is nominally the largest religion in the country, but are more than 50% of the country practicing catholics? I don't know.

28064212

Count Duckula wrote: »

It comes down to the majority ruling what's good for everyone based on what they believe.

That's not how society works at all

Count Duckula wrote: »

I don't know about in Ireland, but here in the UK I cannot buy more than sixteen paracetamol capsules at a time. I should, really, be able to buy as many as I like, but because the majority believes that paracetamol is bad in great doses, I am prevented from buying it to stop from hurting myself.

Yes, it's a law brought in on the basis of medical recommendations

Count Duckula wrote: »

The same is true here. The majority believe that drinking on a Friday would harm you greatly

What? No they don't. No-one in the country believes that drinking on Good Friday harms you greatly. No-one has ever been prevented from becoming an alcoholic because they weren't able to drink on Good Friday

Count Duckula wrote: »

Hence I can't walk around the streets naked, even though I might want to.

And you accuse Dave! of drawing nonsensical comparisons?

Galvasean

We're a secular country now, no matter how much some of the old skool Catholics refuse to admit it. Unfortunately Fiana Fail maintained a very cosy and 'special' relationship with the Catholic Church (look what good it did us) so repealing the ban on alcohol sales was a non-issue for them. Perhaps the new Government might see it as something to be addressed.
One reason why there hasn't been enough support to get rid of the ban is because whenever someone makes the point that it's silly to ban everyone from purchasing alcohol because Catholics traditionally abstain from drinking that day dozens of Count Duckulas come crawling out of the woodwork woth lazy rethoric along the lines of, "What's the harm? It's not like you're black slaves! Can't you go one day without a drink? You're all alcoholics! FApfapfapfapfap!!!!"

Dave!

28064212 wrote: »

You added in a word that Dave! didn't use

You claimed that "the majority rules". Dave! pointed out that the same argument could be used to bring in racist laws. At no stage did he suggest they were in same way equal

Exactly.

Count Duckula obviously realises that his logic is faulty and that his argument is unsound, and can't respond to the point I made, so he just went ahead and argued against a strawman.

Count Duckula

Well we're clearly not going to agree, so I'll leave this thread. Enjoy your day of sobriety

Galvasean

And another thing, does anyone honestly think that if we put it to a vote tomorrow the IRISH people would vote to keep a ban on ALCOHOL? Seriously now, it's the national past time (for better or for worse) for crying out loud!

28064212

Count Duckula wrote: »

I'm going by the fact that it's a law passed by Catholics in a Catholic country that has never seen sufficient support rallied against it to force a repeal.

What evidence do you have to suggest a majority want it lifted?

How about that it was repealed last year for the rugby game in Limerick? And if you're going by that basis, homosexuality would still be illegal

Count Duckula wrote: »

I never said it was for health reasons? I'm well aware it's done for religious reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people think it would harm you. Spiritually, perhaps, but I suspect they'd consider spiritual and religious harm more grievous than physical harm anyway.

And yet there was wine served for the Last Supper. How does that work?

strobe

Count Duckula wrote: »

What evidence do you have to suggest a majority want it lifted?

What evidence do you have to suggest a majority wanted it in place?

There was no referendum as far as I am aware.

Doctor DooM

Count Duckula wrote: »

Well I clearly can't argue the points made by several posters in the last 5 minutes, so I'll leave this thread. Enjoy your day of sobriety

FYP, to be honest.

Dave!

Count Duckula wrote: »

It comes down to the majority ruling what's good for everyone based on what they believe.

I don't know about in Ireland, but here in the UK I cannot buy more than sixteen paracetamol capsules at a time. I should, really, be able to buy as many as I like, but because the majority believes that paracetamol is bad in great doses, I am prevented from buying it to stop from hurting myself.

The same is true here. The majority believe that drinking on a Friday would harm you greatly, and thus they stop you doing it. Not fair, but that's the way countries work. The government is decided by majority rule.

Hence I can't walk around the streets naked, even though I might want to.

Well at least you admit it's unjust. So you're in favour of changing it, then?

I gather during the 17th and 18th century you'd be saying "the majority think that abolishing slavery would be damaging -- economically damaging, as well as socially damaging. Not fair, but that's the way countries work! *wrings hands* "

Oh noes, I went and drew another analogy to slavery!

Galvasean

Count Duckula wrote: »

Well we're clearly not going to agree, so I'll leave this thread.

Uh huh...

Count Duckula wrote: »

Enjoy your day of sobriety

And with that I am now certain that your last few posts were a case of trolling than genuine interest/curiosity/concern.
As for the 'day of sobriety' I'm going to a party that day. Sobriety will be in short supply.

Delirium

Count Duckula wrote: »

I never said it was for health reasons? I'm well aware it's done for religious reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people think it would harm you. Spiritually, perhaps, but I suspect they'd consider spiritual and religious harm more grievous than physical harm anyway.

I took the bolded part to mean with regards to health as opposed to spiritually.

Count Duckula wrote: »

It comes down to the majority ruling what's good for everyone based on what they believe.

I don't know about in Ireland, but here in the UK I cannot buy more than sixteen paracetamol capsules at a time. I should, really, be able to buy as many as I like, but because the majority believes that paracetamol is bad in great doses, I am prevented from buying it to stop from hurting myself.

The same is true here. The majority believe that drinking on a Friday would harm you greatly, and thus they stop you doing it. Not fair, but that's the way countries work. The government is decided by majority rule.

Hence I can't walk around the streets naked, even though I might want to.

RGDATA!

28064212 wrote: »

And yet there was wine served for the Last Supper. How does that work?

that was on the thursday night!

I had a pint in Dublin Airport on GF 2009. It was great.

I also bought a whole load for some English builders who were working on terminal 2, had the afternoon off and were waiting for their girlfriends to arrive.

I was at a house party last GF where people were lashing in drink ... but refused to eat until after midnight.

Mark Hamill

Count Duckula wrote: »

Well we're clearly not going to agree, so I'll leave this thread. Enjoy your day of sobriety

Everyday is a day of sobriety for me, I dont drink. I'm still against the law, though, for the reasons stated by everyone else. Its a purely religious law based on personal belief. If the law was health based, or actually made to stop people drinking, then drinking on good Friday would be banned, not just buying the alcohol. Its another relic of a not-nearly-bygone-enough age, that we really need to properly get past.

Plazaman

Sure religious or not isn't great fun sneaking into Golf Clubs and Rugby Clubs pretending your a member to get a drink or going up and down on the Train for overpriced cans or heading out to the airport to welcome "Auntie Frank" or going up the North or having house parties.......

28064212

RGDATA! wrote: »

that was on the thursday night!

Oh yeah :facepalm: :P

Although Jesus did have some wine on the cross on the Friday.

Also, do they serve wine in church on Good Friday? Or is the whole transubstantiation argument used?

mikhail

28064212 wrote: »

Also, do they serve wine in church on Good Friday? Or is the whole transubstantiation argument used?

Is church wine not non-alcoholic?

Malari

28064212 wrote: »

Oh yeah :facepalm: :P

Although Jesus did have some wine on the cross on the Friday.

Also, do they serve wine in church on Good Friday? Or is the whole transubstantiation argument used?

Apparently there is no mass on GF! Who knew

http://www.catholic.org/clife/lent/friday.php

RGDATA!

28064212 wrote: »

Also, do they serve wine in church on Good Friday? Or is the whole transubstantiation argument used?

No mass/transubstantiation on Good Friday.

RGDATA!

mikhail wrote: »

Is church wine not non-alcoholic?

As a former altar boy I can assure you that church wine is alcoholic (albeit much less so than regular wine)

mikhail

Malari wrote: »

Apparently there is no mass on GF! Who knew

http://www.catholic.org/clife/lent/friday.php

Oh, that's right. There's a mass on the (Holy) Thursday, the stations of the cross (which is not a mass) on the Friday, and then the Sunday mass is the Resurrection?

28064212

RGDATA! wrote: »

No mass/transubstantiation on Good Friday.

Learn something new everyday

the_syco

Zamboni wrote: »

Do you know what I hate more than the off licence being closed on good friday?
The people who say 'ah it's only for one day'. :pac:

WOO-HOO!!! House Party Friday!!! :pac:

strobe

mikhail wrote: »

Is church wine not non-alcoholic?

Apparently it has to be alcoholic even to the point that they will add grape brandy to it to alcohol up especially weak wine.

(from wiki and only partially sourced)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramental_wine#cite_ref-4

Humans eh!

RGDATA! wrote: »

As a former altar boy I can assure you that church wine is alcoholic (albeit much less so than regular wine)

I used to love a swig of altar wine as an altar boy, had a mild subtle sherry aroma to it as far as I can remember.
Alcoholic definetly
Remember GF one year, spent in back of mates Hiace, driving around countryside all afternoon getting ratarsed, about six of us absolutely wasted.
Good times. :pac:
Prohibiting alcohol sales for religious reasons by law is ludicrous IMO,
but jaysus we had some great GF's over the years because of it all the same.

IITYWYBMAD

28064212 wrote: »

That's not how society works at all

True, but it's how a democracy works.

Yes, it's a law brought in on the basis of medical recommendations

What? Hogwash imo. Show me the statute on this please. I thought it was a guideline for various dept's of health, not a law?

Galvasean

mikhail wrote: »

Is church wine not non-alcoholic?

No silly, it's the blood of Christ
Exploiting the loophole FTW

Morgase

Count Duckula wrote: »

I suppose you're not complaining about the day off though? You can't take the good of religious holidays (numerous days off work) but complain about the bad (not being able to buy alcohol). I expect you'll be whining that you just HAVE to take a day off next Christmas Day, and how awful that is and now you know how the black slaves felt.

Good Friday is not a bank holiday. It's usually taken out of one's annual leave.

28064212

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

True, but it's how a democracy works.

It's how a non-constitution-based, direct democracy would work. Ireland is not one

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

What? Hogwash imo. Show me the statute on this please. I thought it was a guideline for various dept's of health, not a law?

That was Count Duckula's claim for the UK

sensibleken

Galvasean wrote: »

No silly, it's the blood of Christ
Exploiting the loophole FTW

Not a goo idea to be honest. myself and the Da drank two bottles of it once. Its super sugary, (a bit like bad buckfast) to the point where we both got really aggressive which never normally happens. Says a lot to be honest