Help on software development

Dboy85

Hey

Startin this course in sept and im jus lookin for some info like:
*Which of the languages are used for the programming
*Any suggestions for good books or sourse material

Any tips would be welcomed advice

Thanks in advance

Dave D

Hi,
Im just finishing the first year of this course myself. You will be studying the Java programming language your first year, Its a good language to learn not too difficult if you put in the work. As for the books,the lecture notes of the course are sufficient enough but Headfirst Java is a good book if want to study extra. Just don't make the mistake i did by not showing up to lectures it a pain to catch up on!!

Dboy85

Haha I made that mistake with Electronics. From what I gathered I thought they used c++ in the college??? Is it a case of just learning one language or do ye learn many? Is it Maths heavy and were their many drop outs?

Schism

In first year you do mostly Java and the maths is quite easy. First year is quite general. There's some dos and linux in there too.

In second year you continue with Java and start up VB.NET and Assembly. The maths gets a lot harder (relative to the first year stuff) but still very manageable if you get stuck into it.

I'm only finishing 2nd year now but I know in 3rd year you drop Java and start C/C++ (maybe C# too). Again I believe there's an increase in the difficulty of the maths.

I don't know much on 4th year but I think when you get to that stage the language you use for projects and such can be chosen. (Most likely C++)

If you want to get a head start maybe look up some beginner Java stuff but honestly I wouldn't worry about it, if you're interested at all in it you'll pick it up no problem.

Hope that helps.

Dboy85

Thanks for your help Schism. Just lookin te get a head start te put my mind at ease. Does a lot of the math cross over into programming? Are there any specific parts you'd advise to get a head start on? I know everyones different but in your opinion what areas would be most challenging?

Thanks in advance

Dave D

yeah what Schism says. The maths in first year is ok, you do Probability, sets,trigonometry and vectors all easier than whats in the leaving cert aswell as the likes of decimal,hex and binary number systems, truth tables and matrices. These can be tricky at first but once you learn them its pretty much repeating the steps. As for drop-outs, the ones that dropped out in my year, didn't really drop out because the course was too difficult just not the course they taught it would be.

Dboy85

Cheers Dave. Thats just what I was lookin for to gear up in Maths; I want to be able to see in binary by the time i go back :pac:. Just downed the book you suggested; it seems pretty good. Did you use any more sources online or anything?
Are the classes mixed with other courses for common subjects or are the same fellas in the same class the whole year? Bit off topic sorry lol

Thanks Dave

Dave D

The course is a common first year so you will be in a big class with networking, operating systems and applications students, and your usually divided into 3 groups for the labs, but the whole class are together for the lectures. The headfirst and lecture notes should be enough for first year. Binary urg I hated it aswell as hex, Have fun learning them lol :pac:

Dboy85

110110110010100101101 Thanks for the help guys any other tip and suggestion are welcome to aid survival :pac:

Dave D

Dboy85 wrote: »

110110110010100101101 :pac:

Nooooooooooooo!! Your bringing back bad memorys. Ha, ah its not that bad and they have a retention center for first years. so if you have trouble learning any of the maths or course material they are a great help.

Dboy85

Haha boolian was a legend :rolleyes:

Ivan

If it's the course I did, and it seems to be, although they've replaced Pascal with another year of Java (definitely a good thing) then it's pretty much as described. Math's get's increasingly harder, make sure you stay on top of that. You'll find alot of subjects overlaps with the maths courses, eventually if nothing else, so make sure you keep at least with the curve. Java is ridiculously simple, VB even more so but Assembly and the resulting Hardware classes are fairly tough. The Dos/batch script writing is very simple as is most of the Operating Systems classes. There was a Technical Documentation class too, not sure if it's still there or any viable justification for it still being there if it is

Business Studies was also a large component when I was there, again not sure if it still is, but if you have any issues with maths then this course will definitely cause you issues, especially since most of the lecturers for the subject tend to be very anal in all respects...

If you enjoy programming at all (and lets face it, you should ) then you will really enjoy java, visual basic and the assembly labs. If you dont, especially in first year with java... then cut your losses while you are ahead

Finally, I cant remember the exact terms but - when you get the choice - dont pick end user if you value your sanity, go with the software engineering/programming option (that is why you are there, afterall?) and if you get the choice, and or have David Kelly as a lecturer for anything, choose to do a 3rd year project with Lego Mindstorm. It's amazing stuff when you really get to pierce the layers and David will help you all the way.

Schism

Quiet true. Had David Kelly in first year, he's a very good lecturer, knows his stuff. I think he lectures C in 3rd year now.

RealistSpy

I am 1st year atm. It is easy very easy the hardest for me is networking. Programming is easy so as maths but depends on who you are.

Everyone forgot to mention that you will learn HTML aswell just the basics and a tiny bit of Assembly language which I now hate!!

xual

Finishing 4th year Soft ENG hons... Nightmare of a year. there is talk of course consolidation so in 3rd year you might be mashed in to the third year (one year BSc in software development).. You swap over to C from Java then.

BUTTTTTT Unum have sponsored a new lab in the library for 3rd and 4th years. I've a feeling Java might be dropped for C#. I worked between 2nd year and third year for 10 years !!!!! big change for me. But I understand their trying to gear the course toward the industry more. UNUM are also talking about sponsoring Post Grad research, providing internships for 3rd years in Ireland and America!!! So you have plenty of industry experience which is essential when you apply for a job.

Good luck with it. Its tough. Computing and arsing about on a PC are two totally different things

Dboy85

"Computing and arsing about on a PC are two totally different things", feck it so lol!
Thanks for all the repiles guys. Did any of ye have previous experience before starting the course?
Is work experience part of the current curriculum? Anyone try microsoft lol:pac:

RealistSpy

No work experience in first year I know of. In terms of previous experience, none needed but if you have some in Java programming it might help you or networking. So download JCreator for yourself and practice

Dboy85

Eircom makin downloads expensive these days;)
Overal it sounds to me like its an enjoyable experience IF the work is put in!
Does anyone have past exam/assignment/projects papers that I could have a browse through? Would be very gratefull

RealistSpy

Dude your taking life too hard its easy! relax.

RealistSpy

I can send you some current exam papers if you want. Programming or maths?

Dboy85

Haha probably! Just makin sure i'm prepared is all! Both if ya dont mind

Dboy85

Do you cover database programming languages on this course?

RealistSpy

Not in first or Second year. SQL I think in 3rd and 4th year not 100% though. the closest thing to DBPL in first year is Object Orientation in JAVA. Level = Medium to Hard.

Schism

Dboy85 wrote: »

Do you cover database programming languages on this course?

You do SQL in second year, one of the classes is Visual Basic and Databases. There's also project class in which you use SQL a lot.

RealistSpy

Schism wrote: »

You do SQL in second year, one of the classes is Visual Basic and Databases. There's also project class in which you use SQL a lot.

Ah yeh your right totally forgot about that!

Dboy85

RealistSpy wrote: »

Ah yeh your right totally forgot about that!

SQL must be a piece of piss then I take it

Schism

It's easy enough, well as much as we do is. I'm sure it can be a lot harder.

php-fox

Dboy85, I can recommend you getting a book on general theory of programming. Something to give you a little idea about object orientation and general practices.

Dboy85

php-fox wrote: »

Dboy85, I can recommend you getting a book on general theory of programming. Something to give you a little idea about object orientation and general practices.

All suggestions welcome. What did ya have in mind and dont say for dummies...Cos i've just started it haha:pac:

Schism wrote: »

It's easy enough, well as much as we do is. I'm sure it can be a lot harder.

I read in a book that db programming is one of the more "rewarding" sub categories for programmers. Lets face it more money the better in this country. I'm not materialistic but security would be nice

php-fox

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Object-Oriented-Software-Engineering-Practical-Development/dp/0077109082/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240014236&sr=1-4
You can go for something like this. O
Or this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Java-Objects-Programmer/dp/1861004176/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240014236&sr=1-6

Dboy85

php-fox wrote: »

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Object-Oriented-Software-Engineering-Practical-Development/dp/0077109082/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240014236&sr=1-4
You can go for something like this. O
Or this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Java-Objects-Programmer/dp/1861004176/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240014236&sr=1-6

You seem fairly certain of these books. Have you had good experience of these?
Thank you for your help fox.

php-fox

They were just an example. You are free to browse amazon and just pick a book you like based on reviews of other people.

In programming, you have to read as much as you possible can. And then practice (code

Dboy85

php-fox wrote: »

They were just an example. You are free to browse amazon and just pick a book you like based on reviews of other people.

In programming, you have to read as much as you possible can. And then practice (code

My scepticism gets the better of me reading reviews on sale sites I'd prefer to come on boards to annoy people to get their valued opinions;)

Schism

The recommended texts for Java in 1st year were :

Java in Two Semesters Charatan - McGraw-Hill 2004

Programming and Problem Solving with Java Nell Dale Jones and Bartlett 2003

If that's any good to you.

Dboy85

Schism wrote: »

The recommended texts for Java in 1st year were :

Java in Two Semesters Charatan - McGraw-Hill 2004

Programming and Problem Solving with Java Nell Dale Jones and Bartlett 2003

If that's any good to you.

Just saw your post now will have a look...best of luck with exams all;)

Dboy85

Just got accepted into Games development:D does all said before apply to this course or are other languages apply?

Schism

First year Games has C then C++ (Programming). There's Assembly too (Computer Architecture). Then you got Maths, Games and Graphics.

This course I'm sure most would agree is harder and needs work from the get go so you don't fall behind. That's all I got for ya but there's a couple of lads on here I'm sure will help you out.

Dboy85

Well im game from the start so i'll see how it goes. Not shy of gettin stuck in tho so hopefully i'll be fine. Just delighted I got it at the minute.
I learned a good bit of java and basic to get the feel for it and loved it so hopefull C wont be that much worse.

Thanks for all the help lads i'll see ye in sept;)

RealistSpy

Seriously guys first year is easy just don't skip class I warn you all!

Ivan

The problem with the game dev course, from what I've heard - is that it is such a shock.

First year is pretty amazing, you get your hand held as you get introduced to programming and basic programming/hardware theory. You even get to play some games and mess around with some model viewers/editors. But then you get dumped into 2nd year and find that there is a whole host of physics and applied maths required in order to properly program the engines/graphics of your games and thats where the difficulty starts.

Instead of being slowly introduced into the physics, it just kinda all lands on you in 2nd year and most people drop out because it gets really hard really fast.

Still, if you keep it in mind and try to slowly introduce yourself to it; you should be fine.

RedXIV

Ivan wrote: »

The problem with the game dev course, from what I've heard - is that it is such a shock.

that and its seriously f**king hard

Ivan wrote: »

First year is pretty amazing, you get your hand held as you get introduced to programming and basic programming/hardware theory. You even get to play some games and mess around with some model viewers/editors. But then you get dumped into 2nd year and find that there is a whole host of physics and applied maths required in order to properly program the engines/graphics of your games and thats where the difficulty starts.

Couldn't have put it better myself. First year was a doddle, almost too easy and it's very tempting to develop bad habits from this. DON'T. If you pick a year to doss off, pick first year and put 100% in the others.

Ivan wrote: »

Instead of being slowly introduced into the physics, it just kinda all lands on you in 2nd year and most people drop out because it gets really hard really fast.

Yes and no. The 1st year applied maths is the basics of everything and if you don't understand them, you're screwed. Seriously. The physics we learned in 2nd and 3rd year were mostly not used until one of the last projects in 4th year, at which case we were comfortable enough to do our own research on.

Ivan wrote: »

Still, if you keep it in mind and try to slowly introduce yourself to it; you should be fine.

If you're going to start learning something, learn C++. Not being able to program properly was my problem and believe me, i had to fight tooth and nail to pass the course. And i got crap results. Learn to Program, everything else will follow from that. Oh and don't, for the love of god, don't skip classes.

YoungPayters

Schism wrote: »

First year Games has C then C++ (Programming). There's Assembly too (Computer Architecture). Then you got Maths, Games and Graphics.

It's actually C# in first year only and then C++ in second year. C# is handy enough to get project up and running and to show programming techniques quickly.
Architecture is handy enough in first year (didnt do the end of year project worth 30% and still passed )
I like the maths but thats just me so I had no real problem with that.
Then second year starts and then the nightmare begins! C++ is some craic!!:rolleyes:

Oh and best of luck!

HaVoC

I did this course a while back, same time as Ivan.

http://www.javaranch.com/ is a good site to get started on Java.

I always like the Ditel & Dietel books , they explain stuff pretty clearly.

I was horrible at maths , managed to drag myself through, got to love attempt marks , 4th year was hellish looks like there is no dedicated maths subject but AI, Graphics & Formal methods are all maths. still passed though so i wouldn't worry about it if ya put in the effort.

RealistSpy

I want a job programmi9ng AI or else I will start my own company Callled AIBot its trademarked so don't dare steal it.

onzlo

im only goinng into 6th yearr atm but would i get by the maths if im at ordinary level with an average grade of B? im really considering this course

RedXIV

What i found with maths in college is that it's easier to understand WHY you're learning them and therefore they are easier to get your head around. When your learning geometry in 2nd level school, you learn the x and y axis because your told to. In the games course you learned them to make your character move left and right and jump up respectively.

With anything, if you work at it in college, you shouldn't have any problems

MarkS1

Most course start of with giving you a tast of web development.

live HTML CSS PHP

Then go on to more harder which is either java then C++ or in reverse. But dont worry when the course gets started you will have plenty of work to do :eek:

Dboy85

RedXIV wrote: »

What i found with maths in college is that it's easier to understand WHY you're learning them and therefore they are easier to get your head around. When your learning geometry in 2nd level school, you learn the x and y axis because your told to. In the games course you learned them to make your character move left and right and jump up respectively.

With anything, if you work at it in college, you shouldn't have any problems

Thats why I changed my mind to do games at the last minute. I taut everything would roll in together better when you can see the results moving on screen...That an the fact I get to make games as part of college rather than doing the software course and making games in my own time.
Have any of ye had success in Ireland working for games developers or did ye cross over into software/immigrate:p

I'd imagine their arent many oppertunities in Ireland for a games developer or am I wrong? I know a lot of the times its easier to find software dev jobs than games.

RedXIV

Dboy85 wrote: »

Thats why I changed my mind to do games at the last minute. I taut everything would roll in together better when you can see the results moving on screen...That an the fact I get to make games as part of college rather than doing the software course and making games in my own time.
Have any of ye had success in Ireland working for games developers or did ye cross over into software/immigrate:p

I'd imagine their arent many oppertunities in Ireland for a games developer or am I wrong? I know a lot of the times its easier to find software dev jobs than games.

Games is very tricky to break into in ireland.

Thats why we set up our own company

Dboy85

RedXIV wrote: »

Games is very tricky to break into in ireland.

Thats why we set up our own company

I think its the aspirations of everyone doing this course :pac: Hope ye get a break!
Have ye anything finished yet?

RedXIV

Dboy85 wrote: »

I think its the aspirations of everyone doing this course :pac: Hope ye get a break!
Have ye anything finished yet?

nothing major released yet, still in development for some projects, still in talks in others. lots to do still but has been very exciting