93 years today!!

Grudaire

futurehope wrote: »

I think it's worse than that jimmy. One only has to read through the posts on this forum (and indeed on other Irish forums) to realise what sort of place Ireland had/has become since it left The Union. Constant whining about The UK/GB/Britain. Is there any other country in the world that goes on about their nearest neighbours like The Irish? Personally I doubt it. If one goes on a German forum, do people there keep bleating about Germany's lost lands - Silesia, East Prussia, Pomerania, etc? Personally I doubt it. Does anyone on UK forums keep moaning about how terrible it was to lose The Empire and wouldn't it be great if it could be recreated? Again, unlikely. Does any civilised country anywhere have the arrogance to constantly keep harping on about taking over part of a neighbouring country's territory AGAINST the will of those who actually live there? If there are such civilised countries, I'd love to know their names. And yet many of these same bleaters, whiners and moaners have either lived in England, are living in England, or will live in England - either them, their parents, their children, etc. This can all be summed up in one word:

EMBARRASSING!

And yet the question remains - WHY do The Irish (or many of them) think like this and act like this? I can only give one answer. In order for corrupt, lazy and incompetent Irish politicians to prosper and in order for said politicians to maintain control over what was a very poor populace until relatively recently, they had to point the finger North and East. It was The terrible British and those nasty Prods who were to blame. And yet, said politicians could not have acted alone. No, they required the assistance of The RC church, which they received in abundance, particularly through the schools, where the anti-British and anti-Protestant bile was spewed out onto innocent children. In return The Irish state did not look to closely at what The RC priests were up to. Well, we all know now what they were up to don't we?

So, instead of blaming The British for their plight (the same British who helped fund Ireland's prosperity through The EU and who welcomed The Irish into England as immigrants) or blaming Northern Protestants (the one's, who contrary to Irish speak, were actually incredibly slow to anger, even during the worst of The Provo outrages), The Irish should take a much closer look at themselves, and damn well grow up.

Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

It's funny because I actually Lol'ed at this post (And not because I agree with ya - purely because this is revisionism on a scale that would make David Irvine wet himself)

live2thewire

cliste i wouldn't mind he/she is clearly trolling. maby if we ignore them they will go away.

Grudaire

live2thewire wrote: »

cliste i wouldn't mind he/she is clearly trolling. maby if we ignore them they will go away.

Thats a fair point.

There isn't any memorials/parades this year is there? It's a pity, I hope that the 100 year anniversary is good

leitrim lad

i wonder if the country doesnt go bankrupt, would they consider having a parade/festival on the 100 anvery , along with that it could be exploited like st patricks day to invite foerign investment to the country.

rip to all the good men who died for our freedom of life

Nodin

jimmmy wrote: »

There were a lot worse places in the world. Every sizeable city in the world had slums. Dublin was well off compared to many cities in the world. Thats why the rebels of 1916 were jeered at / spat at.

What part of " worst housing conditions of any city in the United Kingdom" do you have a problem in understanding?

Nodin

futurehope wrote: »

I think (....)grow up.

This is a thread about 1916. None of your issues there are really relevant.

jimmmy

futurehope wrote: »

I think it's worse than that jimmy. One only has to read through the posts on this forum (and indeed on other Irish forums) to realise what sort of place Ireland had/has become since it left The Union. Constant whining about The UK/GB/Britain. Is there any other country in the world that goes on about their nearest neighbours like The Irish? Personally I doubt it. If one goes on a German forum, do people there keep bleating about Germany's lost lands - Silesia, East Prussia, Pomerania, etc? Personally I doubt it. Does anyone on UK forums keep moaning about how terrible it was to lose The Empire and wouldn't it be great if it could be recreated? Again, unlikely. Does any civilised country anywhere have the arrogance to constantly keep harping on about taking over part of a neighbouring country's territory AGAINST the will of those who actually live there? If there are such civilised countries, I'd love to know their names. And yet many of these same bleaters, whiners and moaners have either lived in England, are living in England, or will live in England - either them, their parents, their children, etc. This can all be summed up in one word:

EMBARRASSING!

And yet the question remains - WHY do The Irish (or many of them) think like this and act like this? I can only give one answer. In order for corrupt, lazy and incompetent Irish politicians to prosper and in order for said politicians to maintain control over what was a very poor populace until relatively recently, they had to point the finger North and East. It was The terrible British and those nasty Prods who were to blame. And yet, said politicians could not have acted alone. No, they required the assistance of The RC church, which they received in abundance, particularly through the schools, where the anti-British and anti-Protestant bile was spewed out onto innocent children. In return The Irish state did not look to closely at what The RC priests were up to. Well, we all know now what they were up to don't we?

So, instead of blaming The British for their plight (the same British who helped fund Ireland's prosperity through The EU and who welcomed The Irish into England as immigrants) or blaming Northern Protestants (the one's, who contrary to Irish speak, were actually incredibly slow to anger, even during the worst of The Provo outrages), The Irish should take a much closer look at themselves, and damn well grow up.

Excellent post. However , to answer your question "WHY do The Irish (or many of them) think like this and act like this? " I would suggest ( having survived the education system here in Ireland ) that Irish schools and teachers have a lot to answer for....in fact thats where most of the actual indoctrination occured.

Scofflaw

live2thewire wrote: »

cliste i wouldn't mind he/she is clearly trolling. maby if we ignore them they will go away.

Read the charter:

Allegations of trollery will not be accepted in-thread - they will be viewed as simply another form of personal attack, and dealt with accordingly. If you believe someone is trolling, and object, then report them as per "Reporting & Moderation above.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Shane-1

Does any country go on about their nearest neighbours as much as us? Hmmm, how about the English about the Irish/ French/ Germans? How about the French about the Germans, the Polish about the Russians/ Germans. The Cubans about the Americans, the Americans about the Cubans. sigh, human nature Im afraid, same way as most people slag off their next door neightbours most of the time, just on a grander scale.

And sure arent ye on a forum saying about how terrible it was to lose the empire etc? THat would answer your question I believe?!

As for the rest of the thread, two things - so apparently we have invented the northern troubles and got loads of catholics up there to play along and pretend to be oppressed so we can cover up the wrong doings of the catholic church? Thats quite the conspiracy theory you have going there.

And 2 - all this is completely unrelated to 1916!

Shane-1

Shame on those dastardly teachers for teaching us our history too, fuping backstards

wolfpawnat

Cliste wrote: »

Thats a fair point.

There isn't any memorials/parades this year is there? It's a pity, I hope that the 100 year anniversary is good

There was supposed to be a bit of a memorial service for them today at the gpo and there was small service for them in my town and I heard on the radio that there was more services taking place around the county:)

I cannot wait for the 100th year anniversary!!! I really hope it's a big to-do.

The men and women of 1916 are real heroes and deserve to do remembered as such. My OH and I gave our son the names of two of the leaders as his middle names:)

mikemac

I skipped right to the end so maybe someone put the OP straight

It started on Easter Monday and on April 24th, this isn't an anniversary at all

Shane-1

Hello Dearest OH!! Yes indeed there were several memorials this year, and there are still a couple tomorrow in a few places. Just depending on your political affiliations be careful which ones you attend and dont attend, they are all organised by different groups, mostly by Sinn Fein and Republican Sinn Fein, you dont want to turn up to the RSF one with your Fianna Fail hat on!

Shane-1

mikemac wrote: »

I skipped right to the end so maybe someone put the OP straight

It started on Easter Monday and on April 24th, this isn't an anniversary at all

I think its organised to take on the religious significance of Easter week rather than to follow the exact date. I wish it would follow the date though, thats my birthday, would be great to have a nice big national hooly for me every year

Grudaire

I respect that wolfy,

Mike I think it was mentioned once or twice - hagger then pointed out that the real anniversary's the 24th, I think it may have been lost in the usual 'banter'

Hmmm - I would like to see other political parties branching into this as well. Imagine a Green 1916 memorial

Hagar

Serenity Now! wrote: »

The Easter Rising did not happen 93 years ago "today".

Boy oh boy, plastic republicanism can be funny sometimes.

And Jesus probably wasn't born on Dec 24th in the year 1 but we choose to remember things at certain times. The anniversary is technically the 24th but most people will remember the Rising on Easter Sunday despite the hostilities taking place on the Monday.

Is easy to be dismissive of other people's achievements and bravery, it can make the lack of either in one's own life less important.

I for one am grateful for the sacrifices made by those men and women.
God grant them rest in peace.

/edit Just saw the last few posts when the page refreshed.

futurehope

Shane-1 said:

Does any country go on about their nearest neighbours as much as us? Hmmm, how about the English about the Irish/ French/ Germans? How about the French about the Germans, the Polish about the Russians/ Germans. The Cubans about the Americans, the Americans about the Cubans. sigh, human nature Im afraid, same way as most people slag off their next door neightbours most of the time, just on a grander scale.

The English most certainly do not go on about The Irish to the extent The Irish go on about The English. If you think that you've obviously never been to England. Nor do they go on about The French or Germans to that extent either. As for The French and Germans going on about each other and The Poles and Russians going on about each other, have you any proof of that? I personally doubt they do to the extent The Irish go on about The English. I doubt The American people would see Cuba as a big talking point (although I'm sure it works the other way). SMALL COUNTRY syndrome I'd say.

And sure arent ye on a forum saying about how terrible it was to lose the empire etc? THat would answer your question I believe?!

I've not said that anywhere.

As for the rest of the thread, two things - so apparently we have invented the northern troubles and got loads of catholics up there to play along and pretend to be oppressed so we can cover up the wrong doings of the catholic church? Thats quite the conspiracy theory you have going there.

No conspiracy theory, just the facts. Even ignoring FF involvement in setting up, arming and funding The Provisionals, the politicians and the people of The Republic gave plenty of support to The IRA murder campaign. Sure The Republic used to have a claim in it's constitution to Northern Ireland (sovereign territory of a neighbouring country) and made very little effort to extradite these animals to The UK to stand trial. The IRA could say with justification that they were merely carrying out The Republic's foreign policy. Add to that, that every opinion poll carried out in The Republic showed a majority favoured a United Ireland and it's not difficult to see how The IRA could derive inspiration to continue it's campaign.

But beyond this, even at partition, politicians in The South told Northern Catholics that Northern Ireland was a 'house of cards' that wouldn't last and that they shouldn't get involved in it, thus sowing the seeds of community mistrust, which The IRA were to continue to exploit throughout Northern Ireland's history.

Perhaps if The Republic got more involved in world affairs it could lose it's myopic obsession with 'da North'.

Grudaire

futurehope wrote: »

The English most certainly do not go on about The Irish to the extent The Irish go on about The English. If you think that you've obviously never been to England. Nor do they go on about The French or Germans to that extent either. As for The French and Germans going on about each other and The Poles and Russians going on about each other, have you any proof of that? I personally doubt they do to the extent The Irish go on about The English. I doubt The American people would see Cuba as a big talking point (although I'm sure it works the other way). SMALL COUNTRY syndrome I'd say.

To be fair now - we were having a nice thread about how wonderful the lads of 1916 were for sacraficing so much for us before yourself and jimmmy came along and began saying how wonderful the Brits were here. I hope you point out the hypocrisy of the Bastille day in France as enthusiastically:rolleyes:

leitrim lad

in fairness lads have a bit of respect for our grandfathers and great grandfathers was it not for them we would still be bowing to the royal b1tch

O'Coonassa

futurehope wrote: »

Even ignoring FF involvement in setting up, arming and funding The Provisionals, the politicians and the people of The Republic gave plenty of support to The IRA murder campaign.

FF and the establishment favoured the Rosary Brigades rather than the more radical IRA (Officials) for the job of protecting the Catholic enclaves in the northeast that were coming under attack from a shower of paddies in bowler hats.

I wonder do you think that the Unionist community gave 'plenty of support' to the Loyalist murder campaign? Personally I don't think they did, and I don't think the people of the Republic supported the physical force nationalists either.

O'Coonassa

leitrim lad wrote: »

in fairness lads have a bit of respect for our grandfathers and great grandfathers was it not for them we would still be bowing to the royal b1tch

Most of the Shinners who took part in the rising were feckin' Catholic Royalists at any rate that's how we ended up with a symbolic head of State that you have to call Your Excellency. Or so I hear.

O'Coonassa

Hagar wrote: »

And Jesus probably wasn't born on Dec 24th

It was on the 25th boss, away in a manger, to a virgin. You know it makes sense

dvpower

José Alaninho wrote: »

They'd say we have to rise up again. And they'd be right....

Except that they can't because they're dead along with the other 400-500 people (mostly civilians) that died in the failed rising.

Scofflaw

dvpower wrote: »

Except that they can't because they're dead along with the other 400-500 people (mostly civilians) that died in the failed rising.

Well, now I have to link to this, then, don't I?

apologies,
Scofflaw

Hagar

O'Coonassa wrote: »

It was on the 25th boss, away in a manger, to a virgin. You know it makes sense

Hagar wrote:

And Jesus probably wasn't born on Midnight Dec 24th in the year 1 but we choose to remember things at certain times.

I left out the word "midnight" which makes the claimed time and date of birth even less likely.

jank

futurehope wrote: »

I think it's worse than that jimmy. One only has to read through the posts on this forum (and indeed on other Irish forums) to realise what sort of place Ireland had/has become since it left The Union. Constant whining about The UK/GB/Britain. Is there any other country in the world that goes on about their nearest neighbours like The Irish? Personally I doubt it. If one goes on a German forum, do people there keep bleating about Germany's lost lands - Silesia, East Prussia, Pomerania, etc? Personally I doubt it. Does anyone on UK forums keep moaning about how terrible it was to lose The Empire and wouldn't it be great if it could be recreated? Again, unlikely. Does any civilised country anywhere have the arrogance to constantly keep harping on about taking over part of a neighbouring country's territory AGAINST the will of those who actually live there? If there are such civilised countries, I'd love to know their names. And yet many of these same bleaters, whiners and moaners have either lived in England, are living in England, or will live in England - either them, their parents, their children, etc. This can all be summed up in one word:

EMBARRASSING!

And yet the question remains - WHY do The Irish (or many of them) think like this and act like this? I can only give one answer. In order for corrupt, lazy and incompetent Irish politicians to prosper and in order for said politicians to maintain control over what was a very poor populace until relatively recently, they had to point the finger North and East. It was The terrible British and those nasty Prods who were to blame. And yet, said politicians could not have acted alone. No, they required the assistance of The RC church, which they received in abundance, particularly through the schools, where the anti-British and anti-Protestant bile was spewed out onto innocent children. In return The Irish state did not look to closely at what The RC priests were up to. Well, we all know now what they were up to don't we?

So, instead of blaming The British for their plight (the same British who helped fund Ireland's prosperity through The EU and who welcomed The Irish into England as immigrants) or blaming Northern Protestants (the one's, who contrary to Irish speak, were actually incredibly slow to anger, even during the worst of The Provo outrages), The Irish should take a much closer look at themselves, and damn well grow up.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you.

Your post exactly illustrates and re-enforces in my view at least the need for an Irish republic, free from the rule of westminister. Thank god the men of 1916 woke up the Irish nation to this very point that there would always be some anglo-saxon empire worshiping fellows like your self!

Thank you! It has made my day.

futurehope

O'Coonassa said:

FF and the establishment favoured the Rosary Brigades rather than the more radical IRA (Officials) for the job of protecting the Catholic enclaves in the northeast that were coming under attack from a shower of paddies in bowler hats.

'Coming under attack'? Some dispute about who was attacking who from what I've heard. Amazing how The IRA managed to kill over 2000 people in self defence!

I wonder do you think that the Unionist community gave 'plenty of support' to the Loyalist murder campaign? Personally I don't think they did, and I don't think the people of the Republic supported the physical force nationalists either.

I think it's safe to say that Unionists gave less support to Loyalist volunteers than Nationalists gave to The IRA - electoral figures tend to support this. As for your comments about 'physical force', it didn't matter whether or not Southern Nationalists (Imperialists?) supported violence or not, they supported a predatory claim on a neighbouring country's territory, against the expressed wishes of those who actually lived there and by this passive support, raised the morale of The IRA in their sectarian onslaught.

dlofnep

futurehope wrote: »

I think it's safe to say that Unionists gave less support to Loyalist volunteers than Nationalists gave to The IRA

The unionists had the British army to defend them or attack nationalists. Different scenarios warranting different opinions.

futurehope wrote: »

As for your comments about 'physical force', it didn't matter whether or not Southern Nationalists (Imperialists?) supported violence or not, they supported a predatory claim on a neighbouring country's territory, against the expressed wishes of those who actually lived there and by this passive support, raised the morale of The IRA in their sectarian onslaught.

Ireland was one country in 1916. How exactly was it a predatory claim on a neighbouring country's territory? Britain was the one who had a predatory claim on Irish territory. But don't let that get in the way of your revisionist outlook.

futurehope wrote: »

The IRA in their sectarian onslaught.

Britain created sectarianism in Ireland.

wolfpawnat

futurehope wrote: »

Shane-1 said:



The English most certainly do not go on about The Irish to the extent The Irish go on about The English. If you think that you've obviously never been to England. Nor do they go on about The French or Germans to that extent either.

I have spent a bit of time in England, thats why I said that I have heard it all time and time again, my sister lives in England and she has heard it all over the years, about does she have a bomb etc etc. So indeed I can say with some authority that the English do indeed go on about us just as much as we go on about them! And they do go on about the French and Germans quite a bit also, you ever seen the build up to one of their football games? Or listened to any average English stand up comedian? Plenty of material there!

As for The French and Germans going on about each other and The Poles and Russians going on about each other, have you any proof of that? I personally doubt they do to the extent The Irish go on about The English. I doubt The American people would see Cuba as a big talking point (although I'm sure it works the other way). SMALL COUNTRY syndrome I'd say.

Nope, again you are wide of the mark, I have worked in several jobs with Polish men, and you bring up the subject of politics with them and see what subjects they bring up - probably Germans and Russians, and with quite a bit of gusto too! Plus I find some of the Spanish go on about the English quite a bit also. And you are underplaying the extent of American - Cuban rivalries? May I suggest any modern history book? Even try much of popular culture, such as films etc, see the racism there.

I've not said that anywhere.



No conspiracy theory, just the facts. Even ignoring FF involvement in setting up, arming and funding The Provisionals, the politicians and the people of The Republic gave plenty of support to The IRA murder campaign. Sure The Republic used to have a claim in it's constitution to Northern Ireland (sovereign territory of a neighbouring country) and made very little effort to extradite these animals to The UK to stand trial. The IRA could say with justification that they were merely carrying out The Republic's foreign policy. Add to that, that every opinion poll carried out in The Republic showed a majority favoured a United Ireland and it's not difficult to see how The IRA could derive inspiration to continue it's campaign.

But beyond this, even at partition, politicians in The South told Northern Catholics that Northern Ireland was a 'house of cards' that wouldn't last and that they shouldn't get involved in it, thus sowing the seeds of community mistrust, which The IRA were to continue to exploit throughout Northern Ireland's history.

Perhaps if The Republic got more involved in world affairs it could lose it's myopic obsession with 'da North'.

We are involved in world affairs. And half of your above post seems to flit between history from the 20's 60's etc in no conherent order, thus it all comes across as a bit confused. And we didnt extradite 'these animals' to UK cause we put them through our own legal system! Are you aware also that the IRA were reorganised and reformed in the period you mention about public support, poles etc as a defensive force? Northern catholics were subject to nothing short of a pogrum, they were being burnt out of houses, beaten on the street, discriminated against in employment etc, and were recieving no help from the police - indeed twas the police that were responsible for most of the acts. Are you aware that the catholic population and the IRA actually welcomed the deployment of the British military to the north? They were in the belief that the military were being brought in for their protection!! How wrong they would be! So it was under those circumstances that many of the people of the south showed support for the actions of the IRA!

futurehope

dlofnep said:

The unionists had the British army to defend them or attack nationalists. Different scenarios warranting different opinions.

The British Army were sent into Northern Ireland at the request of Northern Nationalists, who then started sticking broken glass in the sandwiches they gave the young squadies - true Irish hospitality. As for attacking Nationalists - I'd like to know when that happened? From what I gather, Republicans were responsible for 2057 deaths during 'the troubles' and The UK state only 363 (not all Army). Easy to see who the aggressors were wouldn't you say? In fact, far from attacking Nationalists they often ended up defending them. When Gerry Adams was shot, it was an army unit who arrested the UFF unit involved. Even following massive PIRA intimidation, The UDR always had at least 3% Catholic membership (much higher initially) and The RUC at least 8%.

Ireland was one country in 1916. How exactly was it a predatory claim on a neighbouring country's territory? Britain was the one who had a predatory claim on Irish territory. But don't let that get in the way of your revisionist outlook.

That's so amusing. Just as 26 counties had the right to go independent based on a democratic decision, the northern 6 counties had the same right. Sure there were minorities trapped on both sides of the border, but that's life. The reality is that from partition, the people of Northern Ireland have always expressed their wish to remain part of The UK through the ballot box and continue to do so. In the face of this act of self determination clearly expressed, The Republic's claim to Northern Ireland was indeed predatory and gave encouragement to the IRA's failed attempt to overthrow democracy by force (including many atrocities).

Britain created sectarianism in Ireland.

How did Britain create sectarianism in an independent Ireland? Was it Britain that forced the proportion of Protestants in The South to fall from 11% to 2%? Was it Britain that enshrined Catholicism in The Irish constitution?