Boards is bloody confusing!

aare

alegrabaroque wrote: »

Just to clarify -
If someone uses their personal circumstances to illustrate a point are you allowed to refute based on said points?

When someone uses their personal circumstances to illustrate a point, they are doing so in full knowledge of the facts.

When you attempt to refute those points with further wild speculation as to their lifestyle and choices you have no knowledge of the facts, you are just guessing, and, as a result are, almost certain, to be totally out of line.

As for you claims of partner selection by detailed character analysis:

alegrabaroque wrote: »

No other people need to be more observent and thorough in their analysis!

I could tell you what my husband would do in every hypothetical situation. I spent years getting to know everything about him. If negative personality traits had emerged I would have left. This is to important its my partner for life and the person who I`m going to mix my genes with. I am safe in the knowledge that this man will never volunterily leave my side nor will he ever betray me. I respect him more than I have ever respected anyone and I have more than ample reason to. All examples show his good character consistently over the ten years we`ve been together.

Eg I had a best friend for years she drank did drugs - ok not what I`d do but thats fine. She had a friend they used to smoke hash together - ok fine whatever. Her friend had a baby - we lived together she came home from friends house stoned mentioned they were smoking in the room with the baby. Free choice is what I`m about but not when it affects someone else and particularly a child. The acceptance of a situation like this says something about someones character. It says run in the opposite direction. Obviously haven`t spoken to her since.

There is always indicators of someones general character. You can choose to ignore, deny or accept them but thats a choice.

1. A forensic psychologist would take the above to be clearly indicative of the existance of an impaired capacity for emotional attachment, and a possible obsessive/compulsive disorder of some kind.
2. A forensic psychologist would consider such unreasonable demands and expectations of an appearance of subjectively percieved "perfection" to be incredibly destructive to a child (which you claim to aspire to have, on those terms, one day).
3. Considering you were attempting to psych profile another poster based on about 5 brief posts I would also query the validity of the methodology you employed.

alegrabaroque

I would certainly say this to anybody and have on my occassions. Actually when people get past there - how could you say that and we look at the facts its true so what can they say. It wouldn`t stop me helping them or being a kind friend they know I just can`t stand people lying to themselves. I think its very empowering to own your decisions.

K-9

alegrabaroque wrote: »

It wouldn`t stop me helping them or being a kind friend they know

So, it's the state helping them out you've a problem with?

PS. I'm sure your partner is all you say he is. Thing is, there are no certainties in life. I know plenty of women with babies who thought like you and guess what? They ended up single parents.

Stuff happens. Who knows what is around the corner?

alegrabaroque

1) No method of birth control is 100% - yes and this I`ve already said and provided a table of stats to show the tiny minute percentile per year who do get pregnant while using contraception so the vast majpority are choosing not to.
2) if you read the post it was in connection to my opinion that welfare to single mother should be cut, so made no assumption that all single mothers atre on social welfare just that the ones who are should be getting less. This stat includes all people in receipt of social welfare of which a heavier percentage smoke and drink that the general population. An the first link worked for me again just tried it will post at the bottom of page.
3) And I don`t believe in "the right one" I believe in hard work and effort and making good decisions. If someone as explained earlier choose to ignore negative character traits and procreates with someone unsuitable I don`t think any other individual should be impeeded on for their choices.

And yes we clearly all make mistakes and are huiman. And I`m all about the free choice till it infridges on anyone else.

alegrabaroque

Smoking Stats -
Archive

Irish Cancer Society Highlights Risk for Women in Lower Socio-Economic Groups on World No Tobacco Day

31 May 2005Pippa Norton

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Tobacco consumption is increasing drastically among young girls around the globe, a major national conference taking place to mark World No Tobacco Day heard today. Furthermore, the highest smoking rates are among younger people and in lower socio-economic groups, delegates at the conference were told.
Around 160 healthcare professionals involved in smoking cessation and tobacco control from around the country are attending the conference, which is being hosted by the Irish Cancer Society. The theme for this year's World No Tobacco Day is 'The Role of Health Professionals in Tobacco Control'. According to the World Health Organisation (WHO) this theme was adopted for WNTD because of the prominent role that healthcare professionals play in tobacco control. According to WHO, they have the trust of the population, the media and opinion leaders and their voices are heard across a vast range of social, economic and political arenas.
Smoking rates in Ireland

In Ireland, 27% of the population are reported to smoke (28% men and 26% women), with the highest smoking rates among younger people and in lower socio-economic groups. 48% of 18-34 year old female smokers are in lower socio economic groups with only primary or partial secondary school education and 35% of 35-54 year old females smokers are also in lower socio-economic groups and who smoke an average of 20 cigarettes per day.
Speaking at today's conference, Professor Robert West of the Health Behaviour Unit at University College London said

"Women are just as susceptible to addiction to nicotine though the pattern of dependence shows some differences. Women report more smoking for stress and weight control than men. In particular lone mothers report low self-esteem as a key factor for taking up smoking and say that smoking gives them a way to take a break and have some time for themselves."

Also speaking at the conference, Norma Cronin, Health Promotion Manager, Tobacco Control for the Irish Cancer Society stressed,

"Building self-esteem of women from low-income backgrounds is crucial. In order to encourage smoking cessation, support is required for other areas of life, such as lifestyle issues, medical and social issues, childcare techniques and helping low income women to break down barriers to access smoking cessation services."

She went on to explain, "This support can be provided through community driven tobacco work where laypersons of the same cultural background are used to bridge the gap. Essentially lay community workers can be trained in smoking cessation to provide one-to-one support, group support, drop in clinics, community events and referral to other smoking cessation and health promotion services in their own communities."
In partnership with the Irish Cancer Society, the Health Services Executive in the North East has adopted this approach in disadvantaged communities where the smoking prevalence is above the national average. Lay health advocates have been trained and are presently working in six housing estates in these areas. The primary aim of this programme is to offer a non-threatening way of accessing smoking cessation services to these women.


Related articles

• Many Children Still Exposed to Second-Hand Smoke
• Irish Cancer Society Announce Results of Survey on National No Smoking Day
• Smoking Ban Leads to Reduction in Respiratory and Sensory Symptoms in Irish Bar Staff

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aare

alegrabaroque wrote: »

I would certainly say this to anybody and have on my occassions. Actually when people get past there - how could you say that and we look at the facts its true so what can they say. It wouldn`t stop me helping them or being a kind friend they know I just can`t stand people lying to themselves.

...and you feel that their knowledge of their own reality should be disregarded in favour of your judgment and speculative analysis in determining whether they are "lying to themselves" or not?

That seems dangerously close to striving to reinvent reality to support your own attitudes to me.

alegrabaroque wrote: »

I think its very empowering to own your decisions.

Then, perhaps, you might feel a great deal more "empowered" if you restrict your ownership to your own decisions in future, rather than striving to lay retrospective claim to everybody else's?

Gordon

Why have we strayed onto the topic of smoking now?

MagicMarker

Gordon wrote: »

Why have we strayed onto the topic of smoking now?

What was the original topic?

K-9

That doesn't specifically mention Single Parents, it is about lower income groups.

The problem was your posts on the thread seemed to be targeting Single Parents.

I can see your logic but why you singled out SP's, I don't know.

Btw, single parent families are more likely to have low incomes for many reasons, the main one being the single part i.e. one income.

Indeed, having one irresponsible parent is bad enough, having 2 in a marriage is even worse!

aare

Your choice of quote.

alegrabaroque wrote: »

Speaking at today's conference, Professor Robert West of the Health Behaviour Unit at University College London said

"Women are just as susceptible to addiction to nicotine though the pattern of dependence shows some differences. Women report more smoking for stress and weight control than men. In particular lone mothers report low self-esteem as a key factor for taking up smoking and say that smoking gives them a way to take a break and have some time for themselves."

The only two specific mentions of single mothers in that whole piece, and it soley concerns their motivation to smoke.

Now, what do you suppose your posts over this weekend have done to raise the self esteem of lone mothers?

Insect Overlord

Gordon wrote: »

Why have we strayed onto the topic of smoking now?

OP still trying to convince us that it's her "right" to make sweeping and insensitive generalisations, by ignoring the fact that the style of her delivery was incredibly offensive, and instead trying to elaborate on the minutae of her arguments ad nauseum so that other readers lose focus on what exactly meritted her infractions in the first place.

Or, at least, that's how I would judge it based on my own FACTUAL personal experience, so it must be a FACT...

javaboy

This thread is bloody confusing!

aare

MagicMarker wrote: »

What was the original topic?

I was never too clear about that myself...I think it had something to do with how single mother's benefits should be drastically decreased to give them an incentive to allow the OP to judge their past and present (reinventing wherever necessary to support truly harsh judgment) and dictate their futures...including, but not limited to, demanding that they stop causing credit crunches and recession by refraining from a belief in God...

But the OP's posts (from the beginning) have been so kalaiedescopic and contradictory that I am really not too sure?

This seems as good a guess as any:

An File wrote: »

OP still trying to convince us that it's her "right" to make sweeping and insensitive generalisations, by ignoring the fact that the style of her delivery was incredibly offensive, and instead trying to elaborate on the minutae of her arguments ad nauseum so that other readers lose focus on what exactly meritted her infractions in the first place.

Or, at least, that's how I would judge it based on my own FACTUAL personal experience, so it must be a FACT...

El Weirdo

When do the cats begin?

alegrabaroque

1) Nothing to do with wheather they are responsible individuals or not and there would be no reason for SW to decide anything just cut the "renumberation". If the people decide, which is what I keep proving - its always a decision that results in pregnancy (other than as I have repeated said rape which is separate to this argument and NEVER anybodies fault), why should anybody be responsible for your decision? You bring another mouth into the world you should feed it! why should everyone else pay for your choice? (Not to mention the cost to the earth). Here is a link - http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/02/13/story189108.html that proves the point!

2) No I would certainly not ban alcholol and cigarettes! I would protect your right to choose these things unless they impede on anybody else including your children.

3) I don`t need psychic powers as said earlier poster expressed negative charactistics of said partner. Selfish behave does not manifest sporadically. There is to the best of my knowledge only one way for us to biological become impregnated if you need me to explain how that works I`d be more than happy to...

4) You know I apologise for wording that badly - I would assume anybody would have got to know the other person but negated to acknowledge negative attributes.

5) How can you be responsible and still beciome a single parent? (other than as stated early bereavement or serious injury).

6) No I certainly do not have a steriotypical view of single mothers. My mother is a single mother who has owned her responsibilities and never taken one penny of the state. I have nothing except the upmost repect she`s an amazingly strong woman and a great role model for me and my sisters (non of whom have had children becuase we cannot currently afford them).

7) No not personal don`t know anything other than, as she indicated, her partner did not live up to his responsibilities and she has a child/children.

In order for someone to have a child they have sex which means they make a choice to conceive or not to conceive. This is fine, have as many children as you want, as long as you`ve made provisions to cater for them.

Gordon

This has gone way off topic, the infractions stay. Please take some time to browse boards and get a feel for what this site is about. Overheal posted a great link earlier, click it and digest the content.

DeVore

Despite me asking in every post, and depsite you claiming it in the OP, not once in this thread have you or anyone else linked or directed me to a presumed, implied or inferred "right" to freedom of speech under irish law or international law which Ireland adheres to.


Not once.


Please pm me and I will post it here. Anyone can play this game, please PM with anything, anything at all... linked, supposed or anecdotal. If you direct me I will do the legwork and dig it out.


Any vague idea or reference at all.


Any.


Thanks,
DeV.