how will we stimulate spending??

lmimmfn

stimulate spending? after that budget? are you serious? you'd need a magic wand the size of the planet to get anyone spending cash after that lmao.

Im spending all my money on groceries, beer and cigs up north, spending 15-20 euro now a week here + 50 euro a week on petrol for traveling to work. Ive cut my monthly expenditure by 50% and will be reducing that further over the coming months, changing banks, have changed to Bord Gais Electricity, will look at reducing utility expenditure more. I perceive as someone working and 'middle class'( though i hate the term ) that i will be down to spending 100euro per week sans petrol and bills soon, my partner will be down to the same.

Red Sleeping Beauty

I don't know how the govt. can stimulate spending at all (!). Is it not a case that because there's so many foreign businesses in Ireland that unless everyone is "buying Irish" then that extra stimulated money (the money in our pockets that we go out and spend) will just be going out of the country.

There's a quagmire here is there not : it's expensive to live in Ireland yet everyone's saying that the price of labour isn't competitive enough - can you lower cost of living (such as the high price of goods when compared to UK prices) and lower the cost of labour at the same time ? because what happens if you just lower the cost of labour and leave the high cost of living there ?


I wouldn't be surprised if the long term plan from Fianna fail is to piggyback on top of the EU until there's a worldwide "upturn" (as they call it) and hope that exports carry the country out of the mess and then everything will break even.

Fact is though the government's handling of The Great Mess of 2009 (burst bubble + global downturn/crunch/recession/crisis) is creating an even wider gap between the haves and the have nots - there's no one bailing out struggling families. Or anyone struggling for that matter.

zootroid

Alan Rouge wrote: »

I don't know how the govt. can stimulate spending at all (!). Is it not a case that because there's so many foreign businesses in Ireland that unless everyone is "buying Irish" then that extra stimulated money (the money in our pockets that we go out and spend) will just be going out of the country.

There's a quagmire here is there not : it's expensive to live in Ireland yet everyone's saying that the price of labour isn't competitive enough - can you lower cost of living (such as the high price of goods when compared to UK prices) and lower the cost of labour at the same time ? because what happens if you just lower the cost of labour and leave the high cost of living there ?


I wouldn't be surprised if the long term plan from Fianna fail is to piggyback on top of the EU until there's a worldwide "upturn" (as they call it) and hope that exports carry the country out of the mess and then everything will break even.

Fact is though the government's handling of The Great Mess of 2009 (burst bubble + global downturn/crunch/recession/crisis) is creating an even wider gap between the haves and the have nots - there's no one bailing out struggling families. Or anyone struggling for that matter.

I can see wages in the private sector coming down over the next few months/years. If labour costs are being lowered, and there is competition in the market, then the cost of goods and services produced here should also come down.

A better way (I think) to try regain competitiveness is to tackle other high costs, such as energy. I have heard figures that say electricity here is 20% more expensive than Europe. There is still no real competition in the electricity market (despite Bord Gais entering). And the fact that we rely on imported fossil fuels for power generation shows that we are at the mercy of international markets.

NewDubliner

zootroid wrote: »

I have heard figures that say electricity here is 20% more expensive than Europe. There is still no real competition in the electricity market (despite Bord Gais entering). And the fact that we rely on imported fossil fuels for power generation shows that we are at the mercy of international markets.

We can also tackle this by using power more efficiently & not wasting it.

ionix5891

zootroid wrote: »

A better way (I think) to try regain competitiveness is to tackle other high costs, such as energy. I have heard figures that say electricity here is 20% more expensive than Europe. There is still no real competition in the electricity market (despite Bord Gais entering). And the fact that we rely on imported fossil fuels for power generation shows that we are at the mercy of international markets.

You do know that ESB tried lowering the prices but the regulator told them not to :mad: so "competition" can make a profit

and they cant enter wind power sector for the same reasons :eek:

and of course we irish are allergic to the N word

gurramok

How can we stimulate people to spend when they are up to their eyeballs in debt? (400bn private sector(personal debt))?

Stimulate investment from property to export based industry/services and it will help.

kmick

The current system is broken beyond repair. Consumption driving growth is not coming back for a while. Interesting article below for the armchair activist.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2009/04/escape-from-the-zombie-food-court.html

Red Sleeping Beauty

gurramok wrote: »

How can we stimulate people to spend when they are up to their eyeballs in debt? (400bn private sector(personal debt))?

Stimulate investment from property to export based industry/services and it will help.

That's a problem that's been here for far too long whereby regardless of wheter or not you had the cash, you could just get a loan or some sort of credit to buy something. Everyone's well and truly been caught with their pants down now.

NewDubliner

gurramok wrote: »

How can we stimulate people to spend when they are up to their eyeballs in debt? (400bn private sector(personal debt))?

There's too many negatives weighing down on consumer spending and they're going to be around for a while:

If you have money, you're not spending it either as there's no certainty of a job next year or how much less it will pay, even if it's public sector.

And, there's always the chance that prices will drop.

And, with the prospect of interest rates increasing next year, best bet is to use discretionary income to pay down debts and loans.

I'd hate to be a retailer of non-esential goods/services right now.

johnnyc

ok just a question do any of you lot think one of our big problems is our personal debt..... I believe that the social partnership model that our government have at the moment should have an international concept so we can compare the cost of the public sector with our competition.

Carlow52

NewDubliner wrote: »

I'd hate to be a retailer of non-esential goods/services right now.

Indeed such as paying a Mint for a meal:) not anymore though it seems

Woger

johnnyc wrote: »

ok just a question do any of you lot think one of our big problems is our personal debt..... I believe that the social partnership model that our government have at the moment should have an international concept so we can compare the cost of the public sector with our competition.

Yes, and lack of financial common sense. How many people bought properrty thinking in 5 years time they could sell for a higher price and make a killing? 110% mortgages, releasing equity etc people got carried away. I'm sure you know alot of people who weren't on particularly big money but they had quite a good lifestyle. Let's not even talk about our idiotic gombeen political system.
I think the good times was too much too soon for Ireland. Seriously, how did we go from being the richest country in the world and a model of success to the basket case we always were?

gurramok

We were not really rich, it was a binge on credit hence that huge personal debt hangover, that figure is supposed to be the highest in the EU per capita.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Binge on credit sums it up quite aptly

Belfast

tallaght01 wrote: »

Now, I have to admit that, being in Oz, I'm not at the coalface of the the Irish recession.
But, I've been following it online, and obviously all my family and friends keep me updated.

I just keep wondering, though, where's the stimulus? We know nobody is spending. We know everyone is scared. So, the govt have increased taxes massively, and are talking about a clear out of the public sector.

Other countries are spending billions to stimulate their economies, and to keep people in jobs, by doing all the things that they'll need in order to be in a competitive position when their economies start to improve. Things like building new roads and generally improving infrastructure.

But not in Ireland.

Are we just going to try and piggy-back off the success in Europe if they manage to turn the situation around, so we get the best of both world (reducing our deficit, and minimising our debt)? That seems to me to be the political equivalent of syphoning off your next door neighbour's NTL supply.

I know we needed money, or bankrupcy was imminent. And I know we needed the money NOW.

But are there plans to stimulate spending, and increase confidence? Or are we hoping the banks will gain more confidence when their toxic assets have been soaked up and start lending again? Are we putting all our eggs in one basket? And are we attaching this problem in only one dimension?

Anyone got any thoughts?

how will we stimulate spending??

Spending too much go us in this trouble in the first place.
We need cut spending not stimulate more of it.

Stimulate spending is Keynesian economics and even that schools say in the phase of cycle we are in now that a Stimulate spending will not work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian

Keynesian economics are the one we have been using in the west from the 1930 until today and most economist on TV and the media do not talk about any other theory of economics.

We need to follow the The Austrian school of economics to get out of this mess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_school_of_economics