Will the government ever grasp the nettle of public sector pay ?

jimmmy

On the national radio today it said that government spending has increased from 36 billion in 2003 to 63 billion today, and its still increasing at an alarming rate.
80% of spending is on pay and social welfare. When will these be cut ? The government missed an opportunity in the budget when inflation is at minus 4% ( ie deflation ) - this means that the public sector gross pay and social welfare got another 4% increase in real terms, does it not.
Will things be brought back in to line when the government cannot borrow more ( why should lenders continue to lend when they are paying themselves / their own govt employees less ) , when the IMF moves in or when ? Why does the opposition not join forces with the govt like in the Tallaght strategy ( of '87 as far as I remember ), for the good of the country ?

Soldie

Well, I'd imagine they'll continue to damage our economy unnecessarily with their policy of focusing on taxation instead of spending cuts, for as long as they can get away with it. It's not surprising, though, with the local elections around the corner they'll be aiming to tread on as few voters' toes as possible. Having said that, with the country haemorrhaging money, and with public sector and social welfare spending still at unsustainable levels, I'd imagine that further downscaling will be done in the next budget - although probably less than we need, as usual. The government have their own jobs to look after, so economic damage limitation will unfortunately always play second fiddle to that.

LoveDucati2

No, they haven't got a clue.

I work for a large bank with 370,000 employees worldwide, servicing over 500 million companies and customers around the planet efficiently.

The gov has 370,000 employees to look after less than 5 million people (incl 370,000 workers), a massive % of these are incompetent idiots that wouldn't last 1 month where I work.

With proper procedures and managers with the ability to lead we could run the country on less than 100,000 staff.

Darragh29

How it could have been!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uecywt7pB-4

mikemac

That used to be funny, 18 months ago

nesf

Darragh29 wrote: »

How it could have been!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uecywt7pB-4

Dear God they misspelt Taoiseach..

Darragh29

jimmmy wrote: »

On the national radio today it said that government spending has increased from 36 billion in 2003 to 63 billion today, and its still increasing at an alarming rate.
80% of spending is on pay and social welfare. When will these be cut ? The government missed an opportunity in the budget when inflation is at minus 4% ( ie deflation ) - this means that the public sector gross pay and social welfare got another 4% increase in real terms, does it not.
Will things be brought back in to line when the government cannot borrow more ( why should lenders continue to lend when they are paying themselves / their own govt employees less ) , when the IMF moves in or when ? Why does the opposition not join forces with the govt like in the Tallaght strategy ( of '87 as far as I remember ), for the good of the country ?

I'll predict here that revenue into the state coffers will come in under 30 Billion Euro on 31st december 2009. We are absolutely and utterly in a hopeless situation. By the end just this year, we'll have had to borrow in the order of 30 Billion Euro just to run the country for 2009.

Darragh29

mikemac wrote: »

That used to be funny, 18 months ago

It's not the same one...

mikemac

Oh I know it's different text.
That clip has been used for countless things at this stage, the first I saw was for some football team getting relegated

Old news

leitrim lad

there is a way out, and it should have been done last week, no matter who is offended cut the public sector spend by 2/3, lay off 66%of workers (who probably areant required anyway) and make socail payments equal to the uk , that should easily save 20billion.

and when thats done reform everything from the esb to school teachers everything that costs the state money, including the government and thats coming from a ff member,

100 peeple should be more than adeqet to run this country

Grudaire

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

No, they haven't got a clue.

I work for a large bank with 370,000 employees worldwide, servicing over 500 million companies and customers around the planet efficiently.

The gov has 370,000 employees to look after less than 5 million people (incl 370,000 workers), a massive % of these are incompetent idiots that wouldn't last 1 month where I work.

With proper procedures and managers with the ability to lead we could run the country on less than 100,000 staff.

I'm far from convinced that you can run a bank:rolleyes:


I'm of the opinion that yes social welfare should be cut, especially given what the state gets from giving it.
Public sector salaries however should not. And if anyone wants to discuss this come back with some hard info, not just this ranting 'cac-tarbh'

mikemac

Cliste wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that yes social welfare should be cut, especially given what the state gets from giving it.

Will PRSI be cut too? Now that pays for other things too but would SW be cut but people ending making the same PRSI contributions?

Euro_Kraut

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

No, they haven't got a clue.

I work for a large bank with 370,000 employees worldwide, servicing over 500 million companies and customers around the planet efficiently.

The gov has 370,000 employees to look after less than 5 million people (incl 370,000 workers), a massive % of these are incompetent idiots that wouldn't last 1 month where I work.

With proper procedures and managers with the ability to lead we could run the country on less than 100,000 staff.

There is a slight different between providing banking services and providing education, health, defense and security services. But don't let that bother you. Keep your private sector superiority complex. It must be wonderful to wake up in the morning know that your are working for make profit for a multi-national. Its what we all dream of as kids.

NinjaTruncs

mikemac wrote: »

Will PRSI be cut too? Now that pays for other things too but would SW be cut but people ending making the same PRSI contributions?

Hasn't PRSI stayed the same, or pretty much the same for the last number of years while SW payments have been going up and up.

Grudaire

mikemac wrote: »

Will PRSI be cut too? Now that pays for other things too but would SW be cut but people ending making the same PRSI contributions?

Well, I'd be surprised if PRSI is covering it now - given the huge increase in unemployment.

Ideally it would go to the health service where they (cringe) wouldn't waste it

jimmmy

leitrim lad wrote: »

there is a way out, and it should have been done last week, no matter who is offended cut the public sector spend by 2/3, lay off 66%of workers (who probably areant required anyway) and make socail payments equal to the uk , that should easily save 20billion.

Welcome back leitrim lad. Since you were here 2 weeks ago our government is 1 billion ( thats € 1,000,000,000.00 ) further in debt.

A lot of work needs to be done to reduce public expenditure, for our kids + grandkids sake.

Euro_Kraut

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

With proper procedures and managers with the ability to lead we could run the country on less than 100,000 staff.

You do realize that if we to cut the PS by a 3rd we would have about 90 students per class room and a Gardai force of less than 5,000? No wonder we have had to bail out the banks with intellects like this involved.

silverharp

I'd add that it might be more useful to focus on the cutting or reform of activities as opposed to focusing on the gross cost. if for example certain 3rd level institutions, Fas etc..... have lost their way then even if the whole public sector agrees to a 10% paycut this wont address the underlying problems that have been papered over in recent years with increasing budgets

leitrim lad

prsi at the minute would not cover the salaries of the top paid public sector, let alone sw, and in my last post i pointed out cutting the public service by 2/3, i ment that and i also forgot to say that all public sector wages including politicains should be capped at 25k per year regardless of their role,and any objectors should join the dole que

they would probably be more productive there anyway

because they will be joining it when the imf moves in next year

Grudaire

leitrim lad wrote: »

there is a way out, and it should have been done last week, no matter who is offended cut the public sector spend by 2/3, lay off 66%of workers (who probably areant required anyway) and make socail payments equal to the uk , that should easily save 20billion.

and when thats done reform everything from the esb to school teachers everything that costs the state money, including the government and thats coming from a ff member,

100 peeple should be more than adeqet to run this country

I'm all for reform - but don't spout absolute bull please. A recent OCED report concluded that Ireland was not overstaffed.

Mentioned here

leitrim lad

thanks jimmmy

i dont normally correct you but it is us who is another billion in debt not the government,

i also think ryanair and irish ferries will be booming next year when the imf arrive and everyone flees the country,

the flight of the geese hey ,all because of the ps and the bankers, a great combination of bankrupsy

leitrim lad

funny that cliste
we managed in the 70s 80s and 90s with 1/3 the public sector compared to what we have now so please refrain from using bad language and sticking up for the people who are scrounging our last few billion on over paid unnecessary salaries

jimmmy

Cliste wrote: »

A recent OCED report concluded that Ireland was not overstaffed.

lol Of course its overstaffed. The OCED report does not take in to account the high numbers employed in the military in other countries, conscription etc. Everyone knows there is overstaffing in the public service, especially those of us who know people who "work" there.

Grudaire

leitrim lad wrote: »

funny that cliste
we managed in the 70s 80s and 90s with 1/3 the public sector compared to what we have now so please refrain from using bad language and sticking up for the people who are scrounging our last few billion on over paid unnecessary salaries

Well to be fair a bull is an animal...:pac:


Anyway- Please go on and explain how the country could be run by 100 people. I think that we could all learn from this. The Germans'll even be taking notes from this explanation

grahamo

leitrim lad wrote: »

prsi at the minute would not cover the salaries of the top paid public sector, let alone sw, and in my last post i pointed out cutting the public service by 2/3, i ment that and i also forgot to say that all public sector wages including politicains should be capped at 25k per year regardless of their role,and any objectors should join the dole que

they would probably be more productive there anyway

because they will be joining it when the imf moves in next year

So doctors,Gards, nurses, teachers and all the other professional people we need to run the country should work for 25k a year?:rolleyes:

Grudaire

jimmmy wrote: »

lol Of course its overstaffed. The OCED report does not take in to account the high numbers employed in the military in other countries, conscription etc. Everyone knows there is overstaffing in the public service, especially those of us who know people who "work" there.

So you know politicians?

Every public servant that I know works pretty damn hard. (But I guess that you'll lol at this, yet your written word is gospel - ahhh the fun of online forums)

leitrim lad

agreed with jimmmy

take the gardai for instance they got so lazy that they had to bring in a reserve force , but the cluas in that was that the reserves could catch the baddies, and when the gaurd caught up and caught their breath they would place the baddy under arrest,

thats just one point of unnecessary pointless promotion and overspending

grahamo

leitrim lad wrote: »

funny that cliste
we managed in the 70s 80s and 90s with 1/3 the public sector compared to what we have now so please refrain from using bad language and sticking up for the people who are scrounging our last few billion on over paid unnecessary salaries

So now you are calling people who work scroungers?:rolleyes:
Can this thread get any more ridiculous?
Next time you need help from the Gards, a Doctor, Nurse or any public sector worker I dare you to call them a scrounger. I think that would go down especially well when dealing with revenue:)

leitrim lad

i pay top dollar (euro) for my doctor, as for the gardai you know my opinion of them wasters already , and the most of the nurses dont look nice anymore because their a bit bigger now they are paid so much

The Orb

Leitrim Lad, your posts are just a series of rants. Tell us all, what would you have done in the emergency budget? how do you propose the country rights itself? You seem to be telling us what the problems are ( in your world) but you are pretty short on proposals. As you stated you are a FF member, so are you one of the sheep who continuously blindly voted for " the party" while anyone with a brain could see they were wrecking this country for last 5 years?
And yes I work in the public service, I work bloody hard for less money than any of my friends in the private sector make, I will be the first to admit it is not perfect and things should change however in your working life in the private sector have you never come across anybody who you felt wasn't worth their job?
And working in the public sector I pay my taxes, at the higher rate. Does it not occur to you that public sector workers contribute BILLIONS in taxes to the exchequer.
Take it to Adrian Kennedy Leitrim.

grahamo

leitrim lad wrote: »

agreed with jimmmy

take the gardai for instance they got so lazy that they had to bring in a reserve force , but the cluas in that was that the reserves could catch the baddies, and when the gaurd caught up and caught their breath they would place the baddy under arrest,

thats just one point of unnecessary pointless promotion and overspending

I think the reason for a reserve force was because so much of the Gards time is taken up having to attend court because the legal system is so f***ed up
as law in this country protects the criminal (but thats another story)
Are you & Jimmmy on a wind up? Or are you a couple of 14 year olds having a laugh?
Apart from the fact that none of your arguments make any sense, I really don't see how you can slag any worker, don't mind public sector. The reason I ask your age is because one thing I've noticed in my dealings with public sector workers is that, unlike you and Jimmmy, they can spell properly