Will the government ever grasp the nettle of public sector pay ?

leitrim lad

grahmo

i left school at 13 i worked very hard since 11.5years infact, i have my empire nearly build ,several companies and incorporating more every week creating real employment, who pay real taxes, not geting my brother and wife and whoever else knows me the start, compliments of the state.

the orb

my mini budget,

cut all spending by 2/3, including lay offs in publicsector, cut sw to same as uk, drop vat rate to same as uk,

cut all expences for politicains , auction all minesterial cars, let them get their own, cap all wages in all positions of pub sec to a max of 25k per year.

cut government posts to max of 100, includung a minimum of 1td per county, excluding dublin, which would get 5 tds due to large population

and give a small tax incentive to any one who starts a new company which would be profitable ,involved in the generation of reneuable energy, and in the best interest of the state.

nationalise boi and aib, and take ownership of all landbanks and "development" areas, which were borrowed against, good or bad, whilst introducing legeslation to jail white collar criminals for life if need be , as in my eyes they have destroyed my childrens life.

then county councils the opw ,nra and rail agencies would sub contract all their works, with a cap on the max spend, mainly because sub let agencies run more effecintly,

and i would also consider sub contracting the whole public sector, with a cap on each departments budget, 66% less than todays, this would ensure its effincey, and de unionise the country, this would mean that people would actually do a days work then, rather than consult their rep, to see is it ok to work.

that would pull us out of recession and would save 40billion peryear, and generate around 60billion in revenues due to the hike in taxes generated by all the sub contracting and privatising, which would enable us to clear the national debt in 2 years and save 20-25billion per year in our pension narional fund

jimmmy

grahamo wrote: »

I think the reason for a reserve force was because so much of the Gards time is taken up having to attend court because the legal system is so f***ed up
as law in this country protects the criminal (but thats another story)

The reason I ask your age is because one thing I've noticed in my dealings with public sector workers is that, unlike you and Jimmmy, they can spell properly

Considering you have quite a number of spelling and punctuation mistakes in your post above, I think that is a bit rich even coming from you. Then you have the audacity to think I am underage because I am not a public servant ? When you cannot spell yourself, grahamo, you are in no position to verify the proficiency in written English of the public service.

leitrim lad

well said jimmmy

Grudaire

leitrim lad wrote: »

grahmo

i left school at 13 i worked very hard since 11.5years infact, i have my empire nearly build ,several companies and incorporating more every week creating real employment, who pay real taxes, not geting my brother and wife and whoever else knows me the start, compliments of the state.

Didn't help your grammer etc - and while I doubt that anyone who has a business empire would be posting half of the drivil that you have - well done!

leitrim lad wrote: »

cut all spending by 2/3, including lay offs in publicsector, cut sw to same as uk, drop vat rate to same as uk,

....

leitrim lad wrote: »

nationalise boi and aib, and take ownership of all landbanks and "development" areas, which were borrowed against, good or bad, whilst introducing legeslation to jail white collar criminals for life if need be , as in my eyes they have destroyed my childrens life.

Eh... Nationalise the banks - then fire everyone?

leitrim lad wrote: »

cut all expences for politicains , auction all minesterial cars, let them get their own, cap all wages in all positions of pub sec to a max of 25k per year.

cut government posts to max of 100, includung a minimum of 1td per county, excluding dublin

Pay everyone 25k?! Riight. I'm sure you'd earn the full 25k since you give such good advice?

leitrim lad wrote: »

and give a small tax incentive to any one who starts a new company which would be profitable ,involved in the generation of reneuable energy, and in the best interest of the state.

then county councils the opw ,nra and rail agencies would sub contract all their works, with a cap on the max spend, mainly because sub let agencies run more effecintly,

and i would also consider sub contracting the whole public sector, with a cap on each departments budget, 66% less than todays, this would ensure its effincey, and de unionise the country, this would mean that people would actually do a days work then, rather than consult their rep, to see is it ok to work.

that would pull us out of recession and would save 40billion peryear, and generate around 60billion in revenues due to the hike in taxes generated by all the sub contracting and privatising, which would enable us to clear the national debt in 2 years and save 20-25billion per year in our pension narional fund

hike in taxes - but surely you understand that public sector workers pay taxes now?


No no no. Right there's some logic behind some of that jumble, but to be honest I think you need a bar stool and a pint of Guinness, and someone else to rant with.

- Don't fire the whole Public sector - we do need them
- Yes Get the white collar criminals, and wring their necks
- Slash the politicians - I definitely agree
- 25k - No, just no
- Tax incentives good
- VAT has arguments each way. I think it's a good idea though
- Sub contracting can sometimes be good - but should be done with caution. hell take the toll bridges for instance..
- de-Unionise? - I sense a strike :P
- And I'd like to see a breakdown of them there figures.

leitrim lad

cliste

has nobody told you that public sector workers dont contribute to the the public purse, they simply dont pay taxes, it may say deduction on the payslip but the money has to come from people like me to fund their wages in the first place, public sector workers dont pay taxes end of argument, no comeback thank you.

and the word privatise is enough to rattle your cage , really does frighten you doesnt it, to think that your unioners would be falling on deaf ears again, strike if you want , privatise means sub let the agencey to a new role of people who will do the job for half the price in half the time and way more efficently, so by striking all you would be doing is having a long cold walk outside which you are going to be all told soon enough anyway.

and yes my budget is tough but it is tough on the leeches in the public sector, the white collar criminals, and the politicains, and their friends the developers and dont forget the bankers, the 5 parties who put this country into recession in the first place,

and in nationalising the banks i did also mean to run every amadhain who works in a bank aswell, they all contributed to the mess, even the cashiers who refuse to lodge your cheqe because the writing is scribbly, and the managers who tell you they are in control of your business not you (or so they think)lets take all of their heads back out of the sky up there in yupee land and when they hit the ground and realise that it is infact the private sector who is in control maybe then they will listen to our opinion

Grudaire

leitrim lad wrote: »

cliste

has nobody told you that public sector workers dont contribute to the the public purse, they simply dont pay taxes, it may say deduction on the payslip but the money has to come from people like me to fund their wages in the first place, public sector workers dont pay taxes end of argument, no comeback thank you.

Lad,

So explain to me how this will change if it's subcontracted - Gov pays company - which pays employees, and we take 20/41% back - same difference.

leitrim lad wrote: »

and the word privatise is enough to rattle your cage , really does frighten you doesnt it, to think that your unioners would be falling on deaf ears again, strike if you want , privatise means sub let the agencey to a new role of (...) re efficently, so by striking all you would be doing is having a long cold walk outside which you are going to be all told soon enough anyway.

and yes my budget is tough but it is tough on the leeches in the public sector, the white collar criminals, and the politicains, and their friends the developers and dont forget the bankers, the 5 parties who put this country into recession in the first place,

and in nationalising the banks i did also mean to run every amadhain who works in a bank aswell, they all contributed to the mess, even the cashiers who refuse to lodge your cheqe because the writing is scribbly, and the managers who tell you they are in control of your business not you (or so they think)lets take all of their heads back out of the sky up there in yupee land and when they hit the ground and realise that it is infact the private sector who is in control maybe then they will listen to our opinion

Right so we're trusting it to the same private sector which has run the banks to the ground (Yes they happen to be the private sector too!), And I understand that you're not happy with the banks - but clearly this should be a warning to you that the private sector is just as dangerously faulty as the public sector.

privatise doesn't scare me - privatise privatise privatise :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is that it's not always the best option. Besides explain to me why exactly you think that I'm a public sector worker? Hell if you can be so wrong about something small like this... (imagines Limerick lad in control of Ireland)

leitrim lad

look it is 25% cheaper to subcontract somthing anything than to produce it yourself, and if the contract, for each agency was renewed every via www.etenders.gov.ie it would make the public sector one hell of a lot more efficent and cheaper,

just imagine 100 bidders each year all going hell for leather against one and other for a contract, thats what i have to do on a daily basis, thats why tenders for infastructure is so competitive now.

and not many of the bypasses being built have a crowd of wana be yupees striking with their unions every time they are told to do something productive, are they.

thats just one point on how privatising the public sector, and saking the time wasters already there clean them out , would work.

and that would take a big sting out of the public finances

Grudaire

leitrim lad wrote: »

look it is 25% cheaper to subcontract somthing anything than to produce it yourself, and if the contract, for each agency was renewed every via www.etenders.gov.ie it would make the public sector one hell of a lot more efficent and cheaper,

just imagine 100 bidders each year all going hell for leather against one and other for a contract, thats what i have to do on a daily basis, thats why tenders for infastructure is so competitive now.

25% cheaper - even for the people who get the contract? Come on - back this up. (I'd particularly like to see some precedence with for instance the Department of Justice being subcontracted)


Secondly, the rise in taxes you talk about because of the subcontracting is actually ridiculous - lets say we find that a German country is the best option. wonderful, however that means that the taxes end up in Germany.
In that case we've gone from paying taxes to ourselves - to paying for Angela Merkel

leitrim lad

i cant see to many germans wanting to come here can you, the germans like to be in control, with steady footing , not sunk in the middle of the bog like us.

how many non national contractors have come here to build roads,rail lines,and created employment whilst the contract lasted, they had to form a company within this state before they got the contract, which ment that the taxes they paid stayed in ireland

and it might be no harm to subcontract the dept of justice/lawenforcement to the germans for a while might waken up the well fed gardai a bit

BroomBurner

I see Jimmmy was forced to start a new thread to spew forth his hatred of the public sector seeing as everyone was ignoring him on every other thread he tried to bring it up in (seriously, blaming public sector workers for the cross-border shopping, that was ingenious hatred).

Mods, is there any chance whatsoever, of all the anti-public sector threads put together in one big thread, at least to save Jimmmy and Leitrim Lad the time from retyping their diatribe?

leitrim lad

actually im anti public sector unions, and im only highlighting whats to come in the very near future,,

really big lay offs

jimmmy

leitrim lad wrote: »

cliste

has nobody told you that public sector workers dont contribute to the the public purse, they simply dont pay taxes, it may say deduction on the payslip but the money has to come from people like me to fund their wages in the first place, public sector workers dont pay taxes end of argument, no comeback thank you.

I agree there. While public sector workers may claim they pay taxes, they are only giving back with one hand a little of what they take from the govt with the other hand. Public sector workers paying tax is only a book keeping exercise - everyone would be as well off if the govt gave them the same net pay and declared no tax to be paid by govt employees...just the same net amount. The money the govt pays its employees comes from 2 sources ; private sector workers collecting and sending in tax, and govt borrowing.

jimmmy

BroomBurner wrote: »

I see Jimmmy was forced to start a new thread

Noone forced me to do anything actually

BroomBurner wrote: »

to spew forth his hatred of the public sector

I do not hate the public sector....I merely ponder on the question of will the govt grasp the nettle of public sector pay

BroomBurner wrote: »

seeing as everyone was ignoring him on every other thread he tried to bring it up in

rubbish

BroomBurner wrote: »

(seriously, blaming public sector workers for the cross-border shopping, that was ingenious hatred).

I never blamed public sector workers for cross-border shopping . The issue of cross border shopping is more complicated than that. The average public servant can spend the € 966 he / she gets from the govt every week wherever they want, we live in the EC which allows freedom of movement thank God. Mind ye, it would be nice for our economys sake if they spent a bit of it in the jurisdiction which gave them the money, sometimes

leitrim lad

agreed jimmmy

this also resolves cliste queerey on the germans

Grudaire

leitrim lad wrote: »

agreed jimmmy

this also resolves cliste queerey on the germans

leitrim lad wrote: »

i cant see to many germans wanting to come here can you, the germans like to be in control, with steady footing , not sunk in the middle of the bog like us.

how many non national contractors have come here to build roads,rail lines,and created employment whilst the contract lasted, they had to form a company within this state before they got the contract, which ment that the taxes they paid stayed in ireland

and it might be no harm to subcontract the dept of justice/lawenforcement to the germans for a while might waken up the well fed gardai a bit

Huh - what are you on about son - we're in the EU - look up the competition laws. It's not that hard to understand that we have to give any company within the EU equal chance of getting these jobs

'well fed gardai' what? you know what - Broomburner I think you're right - Ahhhh life on an online forum....:rolleyes:

REDZ

leitrim lad wrote: »

and thats coming from a ff member,

100 peeple should be more than adeqet to run this country

FF member eh, glad to see you have a bright political future! As Nelson Muntz says "ha ha".
Actual on topic, sure some people in the public sector are over paid and under worked, but many others work late for no overtime in under staffed departments. So its all a wee bit more complex than just cutting by 2/3's. Not to mention how the cash strapped exchequer will find the money for redundancy payments, dole etc... for the newly redundant 2/3.

BroomBurner

jimmmy wrote: »

I never blamed public sector workers for cross-border shopping . The issue of cross border shopping is more complicated than that. The average public servant can spend the € 966 he / she gets from the govt every week wherever they want, we live in the EC which allows freedom of movement thank God. Mind ye, it would be nice for our economys sake if they spent a bit of it in the jurisdiction which gave them the money, sometimes

Yeah, I love doing my shopping up North actually. I like to spend my tax-free paycheque of €1200 a week in the Queen's good pound on one of my 340 days off I get every year. That's when I'm not siphoning off tax-payers millions in to a great pension plan so that I can be a millionaire when I retire. A millionaire on your back, jimmmy! Imagine! All those taxes you pay are going to help me to buy my three properties abroad so that I can choose to retire somewhere nice and warm and be treated like royalty. Ahhh, that's a comforting thought for me actually. :cool:

jimmmy

BroomBurner wrote: »

Yeah, I love doing my shopping up North actually.

I bet ye do....many do. All I said was " it would be nice for our economys sake if they spent a bit of it in the jurisdiction which gave them the money, sometimes ". Maybe if the govt gave vouchers as part of the € 966 average weekly renumeration, which could only be redeemed in Rep. of Ireland shops, then at least vat and income tax etc would stay within the jurisdiction ?
Something needs to be done. Govt spending has increased from 36 billion in 03 to 63 billion today, and govt income for the year will be only half that approximately ?

leitrim lad

o your all so funny,

if only you could see what poverty is really happening out there, outside the public sector ,then your eyes would open,

when you have to turn away an average of 10 people a day who apply to you for work, or when your work load is gone so small that you have time to post on the internet,

o sorry that internet thing is a regular for the public sector thats what they are paid to do even in good times

BroomBurner

Yeah, Leitrim Lad, you're so right. I have to close my eyes as I step over homeless people as I buy expensive goods to fit out my half a million home. Also, as all of my friends and family are public sector workers (we all got each other the jobs, btw), I'm living in a complete bubble that's tinted with a nicey rosey glow. Happy times. This latest budget won't affect me at all either, I'll still be well off. In fact, I may just get the boat over to the UK mainland and do all my shopping in Wales.

Jimmmy, interesting proposal, kind of like food stamps or something, yeah that's a good idea, we should be forcing our public sector workers to be ripped off in the ROI. Will the private sector be lucky enough to get this too? Maybe I could use mine to buy potato vodka and borscht. :cool:

Grudaire

Wait till he hears the deal the college students have.... :pac:

rugbyman

i spent 20 mins writing a saga as an appreciation of leitrim lads stuff and seem to have lost it.

in short ,leitrim lad is right about all he says. his way of putting it across upsets some.

cut state employee numbers by 2/3 SPOT ON
(obviously not across the board ,so no need scary stuff like 90 pupil classes)

All state hand out s, dole OAP are a multiple of those in Nortern Ireland, 100 per cent at least.

regards, Rugbyman

Grudaire

rugbyman wrote: »

i spent 20 mins writing a saga as an appreciation of leitrim lads stuff and seem to have lost it.

in short ,leitrim lad is right about all he says. his way of putting it across upsets some.

cut state employee numbers by 2/3 SPOT ON
(obviously not across the board ,so no need scary stuff like 90 pupil classes)

All state hand out s, dole OAP are a multiple of those in Nortern Ireland, 100 per cent at least.

regards, Rugbyman

It is 100% at least - however stuff is more expensive here (either way I agree with this)

However please explain to me where we can cut the 66% of jobs?

le meas,

Cliste

leitrim lad

did you ever hear the saying too many cooks spoil the broth,

well thats the public sector for you

and thank you rugby man, i know i put it in lay man terms maybe a polite way of putting it would be just issue 2/3 of them with p45 and whatever redundancy we feel appropriate, what would they do then strike, fire away, it wont bring back your jobs.

all they are afraid of is this word "privatise" which means that someone else could do their job for half the cost in half the time without a union interfeering so get over it, reform is on the way

and forget about your pension and property abroad , we will just use the new agency to take it off you

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

Public sector workers paying tax is only a book keeping exercise - everyone would be as well off if the govt gave them the same net pay and declared no tax to be paid by govt employees...just the same net amount.

What an utterly clueless idea.

Part of the idea of having a tax system is that people with dependents pay less tax than those with dependents. You're proposing that everyone would get the same take-home pay regardless of circumstances.

Alfasud

leitrim lad wrote: »

o your all so funny,

if only you could see what poverty is really happening out there, outside the public sector ,then your eyes would open,

when you have to turn away an average of 10 people a day who apply to you for work, or when your work load is gone so small that you have time to post on the internet,

o sorry that internet thing is a regular for the public sector thats what they are paid to do even in good times

Whats the matter Leitrim Lad ? You sound bitter? Have you been hard done by

REDZ

leitrim lad wrote: »

just issue 2/3 of them with p45 and whatever redundancy we feel appropriate,

So how could we pay for the redundancy payments? All these people are going to out of a job, how are we going to pay their dole?

leitrim lad

yip hard done by all my life

and just when i was on the up , everyone else around me fell, thank god i didnt.

but the fall thats coming is going to be alot worse ,we havent hit the bottom yet

new dubliner
that is how the system works ,the public sector are ment to work for the state, therefore they get paid by the state , with no outside contribution, therefore their taxes dont make any contribution to the public purse as the money never moves in the first place,

leitrim lad

what ever redundancy is felt appropriate ,let it be €10 or a €100 its something isnt it, they milked the system for long enough,

if my companies went into liquidation in the morning (which they wont)what redundancy would i get

sweet fcuk all

NewDubliner

leitrim lad wrote: »

that is how the system works ,the public sector are ment to work for the state, therefore they get paid by the state , with no outside contribution, therefore their taxes dont make any contribution to the public purse as the money never moves in the first place,

Do you know anything about income tax? Those with less dependents pay more tax. This is generally accepted as being a good idea.

You're supporting a proposal by jimmmy, not known for his deep thinking when it comes to making economic suggestions, that all public servants would have the same take-home pay regardless of personal circumstances.