Proposed gambling club to overlook graveyard

foxylad

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/proposed-gambling-club-to-overlook-graveyard/

is this a winde up>???
where is the graveyard??
why cant people park on the street?
whats wrong with a card club at that end of town?

the mind boggles!

Cabaal

So basically the council have pulled a fast one with the paid parking and were caught out and now they are trying to allow another fast one and have been caught out...you can't accept a gift with T&C's and then try and throw the T&C's out the window.

Bad form to allow this to go ahead

Sully

Can understand the concern from them alright. This was not what the site was given to the council for and would be a breach of trust. Probably should not have any type of commerical use on the site, regardless of the type. Not fair to single out gambling really. Close of the area and make a memorial like it should be.

Sully

I assume our new members posting in this have a connection with the club?

Anyway.. it seems a little odd (maybe I am not familiar with the quaker background) that the objection is focused mainly on the Gambling side of things. The council were given land, from what I gather, on conditions which were not met by them. Quakers found out and the council seem to have agreed to address their concerns by removing parking and making the burial site somewhat proper.

Now Blazin Aces are looking to locate there and the Quakers are annoyed that such an activity will be held in front of the burial site and are hoping the council will reject such a development/activity as it is not suitable for such land. As they say, its against the conditions the land was given to them.

I cant see it holding any wait in court or by planning authorities - I would assume there is no legal stipulation which requires the council to block commercial activity or gambling on such site.

I do see the Quakers point but as long as the ground is marked in someway I cant see the problem with what commercial activity is located there. Nothing to do with employment, as I doubt any jobs would be lost or extra created - they already have a premises don't they, and assume they are just re-locating in an area with better foot traffic?

There is no other commercial development on the site so Revolutions/KFC have no weight on this argument.

Cabaal

D4DOG wrote: »

. I mean just because it overlooks a so called burial ground ...

So your doubting it is a burial ground?
Care to back up this suggestion with actual fact, unless you can prove otherwise it IS a burial ground there is no "so called" about it.

ziedth

IMO its a giant pile of ****e,

TBH i have little or no knowledge of quakers but from reading the article on the munster they seem to have been very good for the city. BUT like sully said if they want their memorial there so be it and no business at all.

How anyone thinks they have the right to say what kind of business can go somewhere is beyond me. Blazing aces have been in the city now for many years and they have as much right as fieldmaster/hewden/widgers to go into that premises.

Thats my opinion anyway.

foxylad

from my veow point --- the quakers burial ground was wyse park -
the poker club is going into the retail units under the appartments ---
they are built and vacant
revolution set up business there - so did masons -

should they stop trading too?

Sully

foxylad wrote: »

revolution set up business there - so did masons -

should they stop trading too?

You seem to be forgetting that both Masons and Revolution do NOT face the burial ground. This notion that "Well X, Y and Z store are there, why cant we?" does not apply because this will be the FIRST retail unit facing the burial ground. The apartments (which are some state inside, though thats a different topic) and parking seem to be the only activity present. Parking is now being removed leaving just the apartments.

Elle Victorine

Wysse park is the cemetary is it?

There's one just up around the corner as well actually. Wasn't aware fo the Quaker one.

And Quakers forbid gambling or any games of chance that involve staking money etc. so that's why they would have an aversion to the whole notion of a gambling facility being put near a burial ground.

ziedth

Elle Victorine wrote: »

Quakers forbid gambling or any games of chance that involve staking money etc. so that's why they would have an aversion to the whole notion of a gambling facility being put near a burial ground.

And that is there right to believe that even though I don't agree with it. just to repeat my point the Blazing aces regardless of if you agree with what they do or not are a local company who provide a service that is not seedy/morally questionable. I would say ont thing if they wanted to put a lap dancing club there (even though I would still be of the same view that it is there right to go where they like).

If they didn't want anything facing the graveyard so be it, but in the climate we are in ETC does anyone have the right to stop Blazing aces making positive moves for their business provided of course they haven't done anything wrong in their application.

well butty

A planning appeal on Religious grounds! That one shouldn't stand up. I believe Mr. McCann have objected to on the grounds that it will have a negative impact on society???

merlante

ziedth wrote: »

IMO its a giant pile of ****e,

TBH i have little or no knowledge of quakers but from reading the article on the munster they seem to have been very good for the city. BUT like sully said if they want their memorial there so be it and no business at all.

Sigh.. hmm.. who were the quakers, lets see:
Penrose/Gatchell - The original Waterford glass. Enough said.
Malcolmson - Built Portlaw as a model factory town. Built the Neptune Shipyard which produced and operated the largest fleet of iron steamers in the world between the mid-1850s and the late-1860s. He employed 1,500. They even issued their own money within a 30 mile radius of Waterford. Built the first Tramore race course.
Jacob - Heard of the cream cracker? He started in Waterford.
Denny - Rashers. Invented in Waterford as a novel way of curing meat.
Cherry - Cherry's brewery on the Quay, now a Guinness brewery.

The quakers were the best thing that ever happened to Waterford. It's a disgrace that people don't know what they did, and it's also a disgrace that we have the disrespect to misuse the land they gave to the city.

well butty

merlante wrote: »

Sigh.. hmm.. who were the quakers, lets see:
Penrose/Gatchell - The original Waterford glass. Enough said.
Malcolmson - Built Portlaw as a model factory town. Built the Neptune Shipyard which produced and operated the largest fleet of iron steamers in the world between the mid-1850s and the late-1860s. He employed 1,500. They even issued their own money within a 30 mile radius of Waterford. Built the first Tramore race course.
Jacob - Heard of the cream cracker? He started in Waterford.
Denny - Rashers. Invented in Waterford as a novel way of curing meat.
Cherry - Cherry's brewery on the Quay, now a Guinness brewery.

The quakers were the best thing that ever happened to Waterford. It's a disgrace that people don't know what they did, and it's also a disgrace that we have the disrespect to misuse the land they gave to the city.

Was there gambling at Tramore race course????

merlante

well butty wrote: »

Was there gambling at Tramore race course????

Not sure if he built the racecourse actually. But he did build a bank and reclaim the land:
http://thehavenhotel.com/jcm/about-the-haven/a-short-history-of-the-haven.html?showall=1

"The Malcolmson will also be remembered in Tramore, where in the 1860’s William was involved in construction the Malcolmson bank – a feat of engineering which cut off the waters of the Rhine shark from a portion of the land at the rear of the strand. 263 acres were reclaimed and a fine racecourse was built. With age and neglect of repair, one winter’s storm in 1912 ended a lifetime’s work and flooded the racecourse forever."

Cabaal

So basically he simply engineered the bank to reclaim land but didn't actually built the racecourse, he/they did a good thing for Tramore and when they went Tramore didn't keep up repair so they lost the land again (muppets)

Anyway bottom line is if they gave the land as a gift under conditions to the city the city should respect their wishes....they'd be (the city) the first to bitch and moan if they wanted the land back from the city

gscully

merlante wrote: »

Sigh.. hmm.. who were the quakers, lets see:
Penrose/Gatchell - The original Waterford glass. Enough said.
Malcolmson - Built Portlaw as a model factory town. Built the Neptune Shipyard which produced and operated the largest fleet of iron steamers in the world between the mid-1850s and the late-1860s. He employed 1,500. They even issued their own money within a 30 mile radius of Waterford. Built the first Tramore race course.
Jacob - Heard of the cream cracker? He started in Waterford.
Denny - Rashers. Invented in Waterford as a novel way of curing meat.
Cherry - Cherry's brewery on the Quay, now a Guinness brewery.

The quakers were the best thing that ever happened to Waterford. It's a disgrace that people don't know what they did, and it's also a disgrace that we have the disrespect to misuse the land they gave to the city.

...and Sugar Puffs! Don't forget the Sugar Puffs!!!

ziedth

merlante wrote: »

It's a disgrace that people don't know what they did, and it's also a disgrace that we have the disrespect to misuse the land they gave to the city.

First of all budd i'm not from Waterford City so my lack of knowledge on the quakers is not dis-respecting their achievements. Second, I totally agree with the issue of the land they gave being mis-used being ridiculous.

Cabaal wrote: »

Anyway bottom line is if they gave the land as a gift under conditions to the city the city should respect their wishes....they'd be (the city) the first to bitch and moan if they wanted the land back from the city

Am I right in saying that the Unit is not part of the land in question? because if it is I retract my statement. if the retail unit is on the land they gave as a gift then I would fully understand that they can object to something that they do not agree being there.

However, if the issue is the way I took it up that the front of the premises will be facing the grave yard and not directly involved with the quakers then I stand by that its should be either open to everyone or no-one.

foxylad

i think the poker club is going into the empty units under the appartment block -
does anyone know where the graveyard was ?
was it wyse park -
all make no sense to me!

well butty

The retail unit does NOT sit on the old graveyard. The graveyard was in the park. Their objection is that the entrance to this club will be facing the old graveyard. I thought religious orders could not dictate what was morally right or wrong anymore????

KingLoser

well butty wrote: »

I thought religious orders could not dictate what was morally right or wrong anymore????

Unfortunatly, last Friday should have been a good reminder of how far behind we still are in that regard.

well butty

KingLoser wrote: »

Unfortunatly, last Friday should have been a good reminder of how far behind we still are in that regard.

Can you clarify please???

JohnC.

I assume he means the lack of alcohol purchasing opportunities.

marlin vs

Merlante, there's no Guinness brewery in Waterford, it's owned by Diageo and they make a guinness concentrate mostly for the African market.

Cabaal

marlin vs wrote: »

Merlante, there's no Guinness brewery in Waterford, it's owned by Diageo and they make a guinness concentrate mostly for the African market.

This is correct, however it used to be Guinness before they were bought

merlante

marlin vs wrote: »

Merlante, there's no Guinness brewery in Waterford, it's owned by Diageo and they make a guinness concentrate mostly for the African market.

That's what I meant.

Aquos76

Isn't the existing location of this gambling club backing on to a grave yard as it is.

I cant really see the harm in relocating it to where they are applying for permission for it

Cabaal

Aquos76 wrote: »

Isn't the existing location of this gambling club backing on to a grave yard as it is.

I cant really see the harm in relocating it to where they are applying for permission for it

The current premises backs onto a catholic graveyard...different views/beliefs etc
Not all religions are the same

ziedth

Ok,

Lets for a second remove the Quaker element from the Argument,

Lets say for example I run a Butchers, Pay my Tax's, Employ a few people and provide a service people want. Now I get the oppurtunity to move my shop to Michael street where there is also a Fictitious synagog that I'll be facing now they object because I'll be selling pork. Is this right?

Sully

ziedth wrote: »

Ok,

Lets for a second remove the Quaker element from the Argument,

Lets say for example I run a Butchers, Pay my Tax's, Employ a few people and provide a service people want. Now I get the oppurtunity to move my shop to Michael street where there is also a Fictitious synagog that I'll be facing now they object because I'll be selling pork. Is this right?

Ill take 2lbs of your best sasusages please.

Cabaal

ziedth wrote: »

Ok,

Lets for a second remove the Quaker element from the Argument,

Lets say for example I run a Butchers, Pay my Tax's, Employ a few people and provide a service people want. Now I get the oppurtunity to move my shop to Michael street where there is also a Fictitious synagog that I'll be facing now they object because I'll be selling pork. Is this right?

If the synagog gave land to the city as a "gift" and had a graveyard there then yeah they should have input in it

robtri

all I can say is everybody has the right to object to any planning, that is the result of living in a democratic state,

While I disagree with the quakers reasons for the planning objection, I support their right to make the objection,