openweb.ie too good to be true?

flametop

Has anyone used Openweb.ie?
They are offering up to 3MB with a once off installation fee of €249.
No more monthly bills! EVER

Hint of dodgy box off this?

I'm all about buyer beware , even more so now its a R*cession!
And it all just Seems like its way too good to be true.

Its been offered in tyrrelstown, dublin.

Any help on this would be taken on board!

Spear

flametop wrote: »

Has anyone used Openweb.ie?
They are offering up to 3MB with a once off installation fee of €249.
No more monthly bills! EVER

Hint of dodgy box off this?

I'm all about buyer beware , even more so now its a R*cession!
And it all just Seems like its way too good to be true.

Its been offered in tyrrelstown, dublin.

Any help on this would be taken on board!

Where's your info coming from, the page is just about empty?

flametop

I had to root the info off the net
http://www.openweb.ie/splash.jsp

It was hard enough to find any info on them.

the domain is registered to HARVEY SOFTWARE SYSTEMS LIMITED
http://www.domainregistry.ie/cgi-bin/whois.cgi?whois=openweb.ie&Search.x=0&Search.y=0

Is that ringing alarm bells i hear in the distance? hehe

Spear

flametop wrote: »

I had to root the info off the net
http://www.openweb.ie/splash.jsp

It was hard enough to find any info on them.

the domain is registered to HARVEY SOFTWARE SYSTEMS LIMITED
http://www.domainregistry.ie/cgi-bin/whois.cgi?whois=openweb.ie&Search.x=0&Search.y=0

Is that ringing alarm bells i hear in the distance? hehe

I'm wondering if it's something like the FON system, or reuses customers routers to form a mesh network. They seem to suggest they're inserting the splash page every 5 minutes to surfers which is a curious thing to do otherwise.

Nody

Read the contract points; they have no SLA and write that you may never have any access after a given point (if at all in the start). Hence what you're buying is not internet access but a wirelss router which MAY give you internet access and may stop at any time.

Secondly they have a fair use policy and can add advertisement if they feel like it.

Third; all contact is done over SMS and e-mail; that sounds as a good way to make a run for it to me.

Fourth and final; their plan to pay for it all? By constantly selling more boxes which means constant increase in number of customers but as no customer ever leaves this means less and less bandwidth for each individual customer.

TLDR - Business model is flawed and they don't promise you an Internet connection; stay far away.

jor el

Without actually being a con, this sounds like a con.

Sponge Bob

In th absence of clarity it is a COMPLETE con Fon is not a con , they explain CLEARLY that they will take a slice of your bandwidth in exchange for a free or cheap router.

flametop

It was a friend who pointed this crowd out to me. My mate came around this morning saying the installation guy is arriving at 3.
I went around at 3 to quiz him.
He arrived up to install the antenna in a Renault Clio car , although my mate tells me he did see a openweb van doing the rounds recently.
Anyway, The installation guy, although he was more of a salesman, was blurbing on about how his company "Bought cheap bandwidth from the American's!" .... very nice of the yanks i said.
He restated that there's just a one off payment of €250 , that's it, enjoy the net forever.
He also said there was a very poor take-up of the 1time payment deal ( only 30 houses ordered it)
and that opwenweb will be offering BB package's for €10 for a month or €100 for 12 month.
He added that they were using Tyrrelstown as a test model for a later large scale roll-out?
I asked him about the company and he said they would be better known as "rivertower ltd"

When i asked him about the openweb.ie site, or lack of one, He told me "These things cost money!" flmao

Well the connection is up and running and my mate, who is xbox crazy, has started a 20 day no quibble trial so i'll keep people posted as to quality of service from openweb.

flametop

oh and heres the leaflet that was sent round the door's
http://www.openweb.ie/Open-Web-Leaflet.pdf

professore

flametop wrote: »

He arrived up to install the antenna in a Renault Clio car , although my mate tells me he did see a openweb van doing the rounds recently.

Are you sure it wasn't a Reliant Robin ?

Shulgin

The piece of equipment on the leaflet is a nanostation2.

Maybe they are using those to connect to susceptible eircom wep encrypted routers in the area. Probably not, but ya never know!

Spear

Shulgin wrote: »

The piece of equipment on the leaflet is a nanostation2.

Maybe they are using those to connect to susceptible eircom wep encrypted routers in the area. Probably not, but ya never know!

Hmm, wonder if they're running Sputnik.com on them then.

Cabaal

This is actually entertaining....you'd be better off singing up to eircom wifi spots though

lmimmfn

from the leaflet

Open Web may, at our discretion, immediately terminate or reduce service upon any single or multiple incidents of the following contions: Propagation of computer viruses...........................Failure to sent your Mother a card on Mother's day.

well at least they've got a sense of humor if a business plan is lacking lol

Maybe its a similar system to this:

http://www.google.com/tisp/

nohopengn

Company details on openweb below:

Company No.283138
Name
RIVERTOWER LIMITED
Address
46 Upper Mount Street
Dublin 2

jor el

flametop wrote: »

It was a friend who pointed this crowd out to me. My mate came around this morning saying the installation guy is arriving at 3.

Did you laugh at your friend for throwing away 250 euro? Also, does it actually work?

watty

Even it it works today, will it keep working once they stop selling Modems?

It is a bizarre version of Ponzi/pyramid selling? A proportion of income from selling modems pays for the bandwidth. (Ponzi / pyramid initial returns). But as sales tail of and market saturates who pays?

In fact they need exponential growth. Linear growth won't pay for the bandwidth.

Of course we have no regulator or consumer agency to investigate such operations.

CutzEr

Pwff, Who needs this when you have an internet tree..

I just bought these seed's for.. Strangely enough; €250, I planted them last week, and once they grow, free internet!

Tbh, This is their buisness model:

1. Modem
2. Cheap bandwith from the yanks..
3. ?????
4. PROFIT!!!

flametop

“Me a sceptic? I hope you have proof”
hehe, thought that was fitting!

Right, my buddy tells me all is well with the internet connection, so far.
No streaming issues from *ahem*(naughty)video sites. And he has had a steady connection. Pretty much what you would expect from upto 3MB BB

Unfortunately he's having x box issues (disc reading probs),
so he could not play on-line to test the connection, although he says its sorted now and he will put the BB through its paces tonight.

And remember, NO Cash, has changed hands for this service yet.
20 day trial!
So if somebody here could punch holes in this service or company, please do! Preferably before the 20days are up!!!

I dug up some posts from Tyrrelstown.net, the estate forum.
Where the owner of Openweb.ie field's some questions from the locals and waxes lyrical about the service!

http://www.tyrrelstown.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=583

http://www.tyrrelstown.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=597&hilit=openweb

lmimmfn

watty wrote: »

Even it it works today, will it keep working once they stop selling Modems?

It is a bizarre version of Ponzi/pyramid selling?

lol, hit the nail on the head there, exactly what i was gonna say, next gen pyramid scheme

Capt'n Midnight

didn't someone say they had ads, while this could plausible pay for the bandwidth things like noads means it's not likely to

angel01

To me it sounds a complete scam and you are guaranteed nothing, they stop selling the boxes and then they can easily scarper, I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

flametop

quick update.

The Broadband connection is, for want of a better word, Sh1te.
Alright for lite internet browsing but who does that any more?!?
My mate can barely latch onto a game online in x box so its useless for his needs.

He's going to launch the modem at your man's clio when he comes round next!!

Anyhow Thanks everyone for verifying my doubts about the whole concept!!

Buyer Beware Big Time!
flametop out

ZeRoY

It is most likely the NanoStation2 and so 2.4Ghz un-licensed - I also suspect that when you get the modem you are going to an access point to others and so on, all this with the same original Backhaul link... you can imagine the latency or speeds on this at peak times

Oh, and the NanoStation2 retails at $79 (60€)

barnicles

I presume a whatsmyIP lookup will showup a datacentre/hosting company IP?

Oracle

Is this like a commercial version of the Pringles Cantenna? In which case I'd suggest saving yourself €250, and build your own ......

Derek Conniffe

Hi guy,

I'm Derek and I designed the OpenWeb system (yes - client hardware is Ubiquiti but the firmware isn't - it's my own firmware based on openWRT and other open source software along with my own designs).

But I'm surprised you found out about Open Web because its trialling in very limited areas and there is no public announcements about it.

And it's cost a lot of money too - the lack of a public website is not related to the cost to put public pages up!

If you have any questions about Open Web just ask.

Derek

P.S. I put the Mother's Day bit into the terms & conditions (it's quite a common point to add I believe) - no-one has ever commented on it before.

pug_

It's the business model I'm curious about. Where does the money come from to maintain the upkeep of the network and support customers in the long term?

One off payments just won't cut it, even with market saturation the funds would have to eventually dry up, yet for a business to survive into the long term a steady flow of cash is necessary.

Even assuming there is a pretty good takeup, that in it's self generally lends it's self to more expenses. Things like tech support etc all cost money and unless there is more to the business model than meets the eye it's hard to see how anyone can do much more than make some quick cash and get the flock out of dodge.

watty

Hence the Pyramid selling / Ponzi scheme comments.

There is no free Internet Bandwidth. Someone, somewhere has to pay for the traffic every month forever. Never mind the "maintain the upkeep of the network and support customers"

pug_

Aye, I was just trying to be polite. Don't want to go accusing anyone of trying to pull a fast one without giving them a chance to at put forward a case first.

I work in the industry as do a good many here, so believe me I've a very good understanding of what costs are involved with a network as well as the different business models that are typically used.

Derek Conniffe

pug_ wrote: »

It's the business model I'm curious about... Even assuming there is a pretty good takeup... Things like tech support etc all cost money

Hi Pug,

Well, actually (and this is the first release of this info...) I also think this business model won't work - and I know because I've tried it.

And its not bandwidth cost (bandwidth doesn't cost very much anymore) - really its because, I think, people don't want "no bills" internet. They want to pay money ("if its free it must be a scam..."). And yes: there is the real point that by paying a monthly fee they should expect very good customer support (do they get it from their provider?).

But what I really wanted was 1) a more community based scheme with word of mouth spreading Internet across Dublin, 2) affordable radio units to do this and 3) eventually have a Dublin-wide network that I could sell other money-making services on. Because I programmed the CPE ("Customer Premises Equipment" - the modems/routers) I'd be able to add other value-added services on them easily. Already there is a bit more to the open-web system even in its current release than just customers buying boxes.

But I didn't get far because it was obvious, quite quickly, that I'd have to fight really hard to sell "no bills" broadband in the first place (i.e. take-up was too poor).

But OpenWeb isn't dead - I am working with a new (not free!) business model that I know works from trials in another area.

Still - Its a pity I think - I wanted to do a Freifunk type thing (google it) but I wanted to supply the quality broadband and do it across Dublin.

Existing customers will remain free for ever I guarantee (I've been in the bandwidth business since the '90s) but if anyone out there is interested in community DIY broadband please do contact me because maybe something could be done still.

Derek

Oracle

Very interesting, is there anyone in Ireland co-ordinating or helping develop community wireless networks? A few links on Community Wireless Networks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_community_network

http://wiki.freifunk.net/Kategorie:English

http://www.democracynow.org/2005/5/13/affordable_wireless_internet_for_all_how

bushy...

I did a fair bit of community networking stuff , you'd learn a lot from it .

watty

Freifunk and such are like Fon. They rely on many users sharing their uncapped real broadband connection.

If you try community Mesh radio basically people end up with worse than dialup speed. It's not a viable or sustainable model.

Derek Conniffe

watty wrote: »

...They rely on many users sharing their uncapped real broadband connection. If you try community Mesh radio basically people end up with worse than dialup speed. It's not a viable or sustainable model.

Hi Watty,

You've said a couple of different things there. Yes in the systems you mention people do share their broadband connections (and some DSL ISPs allow this in other countries). And yes if you are not careful with single wireless card / single frequency radio networks you can have speed issues.

But I wouldn't simply paint everything with the same (pessimistic) brush so quickly. There are many reasons for poor network performance and its not just the two things I partially detailed above in response to your comments.

Like any network: If you have the opportunity to manage a network and build it right then I believe that speed will be fine.

Derek

watty

Fon and Friefunk are different things.
Mesh WiFi can't deliver better than Dialup speeds if you do the sums. I've been doing sums on Communication systems for quite a while

Only model that gives reasonable performance is base Station -> clients where the Base Station has backhaul greater or equal to the peak bandwidth of the Base Station.

An outdoor Fixed Wireless with Directional Aerial based system[1] easily gives x8 to x20 performance (i.e. amount of traffic/speed in same spectrum-bandwidth) than pure Mobile/Nomadic system[2] because of the omni-directional aerials and increased losses getting in/out of building. You can't turn up the power at base or client Modem on Mobile/Nomadic to as this causes inter-cell interference. On fixed Wireless you can use a higher gain more directional aerial on client.

Neither network can be run free.

Free means sub dialup speeds and no network maintenance once the initial "movers and shakers" go off and do other things.

Successful Community based wireless schemes use system [1]. Ripwave, Clearwire, GPRS/EDGE/3G/HSPA all use scheme [2].
You see few complaints about Westnet, Airwire, IBB Breeze, Digiweb, Permanet. These do vary in performance.

Go Midband forum or search Google and see what Ripwave, Clearwire or Mobile is Like.

Freifunk and Mesh systems are system type [3]. Google and you will see that not one Free Public WiFi Mesh delivers even Mobile performance. LTE won't really be Broadband, but about x2 to x5 better than current Mobile (depending on bandwidth, number of customers etc), it with MiMo in City areas will be the final death of Municipal WiFi which is poor performance (though better than free Mesh) and expensive to run and maintain.

Your idea is thus basically a Hobby Toy system and can't ever deliver sustainable Internet access.

"Free" as a model barely works for software. For Internet access at even ISDN speeds and reliability, never mind the poor reliability and speed Mesh does do, it's not a workable model at all.

However feel free to PM if you want details.

bushy...

All wirelessly-delivered internet is just a toy compared to cable/fibre no ?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055552453

watty

Wireless is only for places too expensive to run FTTC HFC etc. Decent Fixed Wireless can deliver a real 20Mbps @20km distance across the fields, valley and bogs. Mobile 100Mbps LTE is really more like 1Mbps fixed wireless.

All Urban should be 100% either < 500m VDSL/ADSL2, FTTC, HFC or cable to cabinet. Yes.

Tyrellstown where openweb was going round, I think has DSL and Cable.

bushy...

watty wrote: »

Decent Fixed Wireless can deliver a real 20Mbps @20km distance across the fields, valley and bogs./QUOTE]

Apologies , should have made a differentiation between "your" kind of gear and other stuff

watty

I only own WiFi stuff (too much of it).

Or do you think I still work for someone that deploys stuch stuff? Anyone with an FWA licence and some money can. That's not me.

Sadly the 2.3GHz and 3.5GHz eircom are the only National licences and not much used for BB. If used with decent gear they could over the rutel replacement using VOIP SIP ATA and the NBS would look very stupid.

You'd want about 1,600 odd sites to cover everywhere that has no decent Metro/Cable/fibre/DSL though.

larkapal

To Derek Conniffe,

Is OpenWeb still in business in Tyrrelstown, and may I try out the system now?

jor el

I suggest you contact them through their website, but since there's nothing but an email address on it anymore, I'd imagine that this is gone.