Teachers call for a day of industrial action

ixoy

Here we go again - according to RTE news URL="http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0414/education.html"]link[/URL are calling on ICTU for a day of action:

At their annual conference in Letterkenny, delegates backed a motion on a day of action and condemned what they called a campaign of vilification against the pay and conditions of public service employees.

They also supported the withdrawal of support for modernisation measures in schools in the event of an extended pay freeze

Seriously, this sounds petty - no modernisation unless they get a pay increase? What happened to "we're all in this together"? And I'm sorry but this idea of a vicious attack on pay for the public service is starting to wear thin when there's much worse going on in the private sector and when there's still increments going on for many teachers.

Surely a pay freeze is acceptable in a period of unparalled economic crisis, not to mention one of deflation?

Nothingbetter2d

yup i agree.. industrial action is a bad idea in this case

ntlbell

I agree, my patients are wearing very thin with this lot.

Nothingbetter2d

teachers already get the longest paid holidays .... get a summer job

is_that_so

I have to say I feel a bit embarrassed for teachers especially the condoning of the childish few who walked out. Collectively I think they do a fine, thankless job and I owe a lot to them myself. Yet when they get together there is an unseemly rush of blood to the head and they all want to become unreconstructed militants and issue any number of absurd threats. I also personally think they have been very badly led over the last number of years. Any more than the daft notion of withholding tax on another thread what do they hope to achieve? In difficult times like this some of them seem to have turned into the petulant children they often have to face. That said it does bring an ironic smile to my face to hear teachers shout "That's not fair" like a bunch of six-year old kids.

gurramok

So this bunch who have 'campaigned' for children in the run up to the last budget moaning about the state of some facilities etc are going to sacrifice childrens education for a day to line their own pockets:mad:

Let them strike and at the same time let them see how much their counterparts get paid in the UK.

i71jskz5xu42pb

ntlbell wrote: »

I agree, my patients are wearing very thin with this lot.

Are you a doctor that specialises in weight loss?
If so I guess your patients are pretty happy.

spank_inferno

I've no problem with them being on strike, so long as its in July & August.

jimmycrackcorm

spank_inferno wrote: »

I've no problem with them being on strike, so long as its in July & August.

Mucho amusement would abound if the government pressed the teachers to do precisely this.

T-K-O

They are a bunch of commies and make me sick, who the fcuk do they think they are, but they will attempt to pull at the heart strings harping on about class size and the best interests of the student.... oh yeah and don't forget our pay structure. The cheek of them.

They are perfectly entitled to go on strike and they should. Teachers never made the big money in the good times and now that times are bad they are expected to support the country. Feck off should be their answer. Why should they be expected to dig into their pockets. Im sick to the teeth of people complaining about teachers, nurses etc not accepting being robbed by the government. My Mother is a nurse and Dad is a teacher and you wouldnt believe the amount of money that is being taken off them with all the new levy's etc. Strike away I say.

manc

spank_inferno wrote: »

I've no problem with them being on strike, so long as its in July & August.

Totally agree with this.

If they are so woried about their student with learning difficulty why dont they have extra classes for then during the holidays, i.e. 1 week of half-day classes during the midterms and maybe a month during the summer, the teachers are already being paid so why not get them to work for it.

Also have to laugh at their behaviour during these union meetings, very mature, leading their students by example :rolleyes:.

ejmaztec

Come rain, shine, boom or bust, it doesn't take much of anything to get them out.

In recent years they've made themselves a laughing stock, but unlike many of their students, they haven't learned their lesson.

T-K-O

Micheal Quick Lavatory wrote: »

They are perfectly entitled to go on strike and they should. Teachers never made the big money in the good times and now that times are bad they are expected to support the country. Feck off should be their answer. Why should they be expected to dig into their pockets. Im sick to the teeth of people complaining about teachers, nurses etc not accepting being robbed by the government. My Mother is a nurse and Dad is a teacher and you wouldnt believe the amount of money that is being taken off them with all the new levy's etc. Strike away I say.

Everyone has to pay. While the public sector are paying more taxes the private are lining the dole queue. We are all paying more private and public.

The public sector needs a 20% cut but that is not going to happen anytime soon so what would you do ?

This is not the time to strike.

10000maniacs

is_that_so wrote: »

Collectively I think they do a fine, thankless job and I owe a lot to them myself.

I left school in the 1980s and in my experience, the vast majority of teachers were mercenaries who did everything in their power to stifle the emerging and diverse talents of their students. They were bullies and in many cases apathetic to a lot of us. Even then they had very little to complain about, but they did. I remember losing 2 weeks of school because of an unofficial dispute over a violent teacher getting the sack.
Arguments that teachers are low paid will go down well in the private sector. :mad: Cushy little number if you ask me.

manafana

Considering all together, they are well paid, their education is not hardest to become, they did get nice raise during good times, but unlike most they did not have work harder for that raise, and did not have any preformance evaluation for it.

ejmaztec

10000maniacs wrote: »

I left school in the 1980s and in my experience, the vast majority of teachers were mercenaries who did everything in their power to stifle the emerging and diverse talents of their students. They were bullies and in many cases apathetic to a lot of us. Even then they had very little to complain about, but they did. I remember losing 2 weeks of school because of an unofficial dispute over a violent teacher getting the sack.
Arguments that teachers are low paid will go down well in the private sector. :mad: Cushy little number if you ask me.

I think the biggest problem is that, no matter how bad a teacher is, the rest of them back them to the hilt, when in any other line of work, they would be sent packing without any trouble.

Considering what some teachers get up to, It seems very unusual for a teacher to get the sack like that. He or she must have at least killed a couple of kids.

T-K-O

T-K-O wrote: »

The public sector needs a 20% cut but that is not going to happen anytime soon so what would you do ?

You must be joking. You cant go out and give a blanket pay cut to the whole public sector. You dont see a blanket pay cut in the private sector so why in the public sector. I know some people working in the private sector who are still getting their yearly wage increases, bonuses etc. For a start nurses should be getting a 20% pay increase, for the work they do they are underpaid. At the very least teachers should maintain the same salary structure as they have. There is scope for cuts in the public sector but teacher, nurses, social workers etc are not the area to be targeted.

gurramok

Benchmark them back to the private sector levels. They have gall to complain about a pension levy to make them pay for their own pensions.

Just look at that teacher on 63k moaning at the budget(other thread), says it all really.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

T-K-O wrote: »

Everyone has to pay. While the public sector are paying more taxes the private are lining the dole queue. We are all paying more private and public.

The public sector needs a 20% cut but that is not going to happen anytime soon so what would you do ?

This is not the time to strike.

Of course everybody has to pay, but in a reasoned and equitable way. There's too much bull about the public sector having to pay and the private sector "lining the dole". There are a couple of million private sector workers not lining the dole and not paying as much in the way of additional taxes as others are. Some may have taken pay cuts but by no means all (or even a majority) I have no vested interest in this as I don't pay the pensions levy but I do think Teachers and other Public sector workers are right to be annoyed by it.
There was so much bragging by some in the private sector over the past 10 years about how much they were taking home each week and what the annual bonus amounted to. Pay rises leapt into silly season and we all scoffed at the idiots in the public sector plodding along. Well it's seems that the tortoise beat the hare again. So, let's cut out the sour grapes. I'd support the teachers in a strike right now.

manafana

social workers lol, look at the backlog in system, its well known by people who have had time in social welfare offices that work isnt always done as quick as it could be.

manafana

manafana wrote: »

social workers lol, look at the backlog in system, its well known by people who have had time in social welfare offices that work isnt always done as quick as it could be.

I used the wrong words there I didnt mean social welfare officers, I was referring to other groups who work with the disabled, the old, and mentally ill etc who are not nurses or doctors.

T-K-O

Micheal Quick Lavatory wrote: »

You must be joking. You cant go out and give a blanket pay cut to the whole public sector. You dont see a blanket pay cut in the private sector so why in the public sector. I know some people working in the private sector who are still getting their yearly wage increases, bonuses etc. For a start nurses should be getting a 20% pay increase, for the work they do they are underpaid. At the very least teachers should maintain the same salary structure as they have. There is scope for cuts in the public sector but teacher, nurses, social workers etc are not the area to be targeted.

20% cut in numbers not salary. The sector is over populated. How can you maintain spending when the income is simply not there.


Sure some private sector employees are still getting increase bonuses etc but they are profitable companies, others are getting the same cuts as the public sector.

What if the pay structure was to stay in place and teachers have to work the same time as the rest of us. For example they could give extra time to special needs in the summer ?? Suggest that and see how many teachers care about the welfare of their students.

Nothingbetter2d

no strike --- oh and if most teachers think the job is thankless..... what did ye expect?...... ye too were kids and know what abuse teachers got when you were at school... why should u be any different... you knew what you to expect.

and what about those poor students doing their leaving certs? arent they under enough pressure as it is? no job prospects when they leave... increased competition to get a college place (last year without fees & also little or no apprenticeships being offered)... is it fair to strike while these students are so close to their exams? They didnt create this mess!!!

every other public sector employee has to pay the levies and take a freeze in pay.

ejmaztec

Skyla Repulsive Watt wrote: »

You must be joking. You cant go out and give a blanket pay cut to the whole public sector. You dont see a blanket pay cut in the private sector so why in the public sector. I know some people working in the private sector who are still getting their yearly wage increases, bonuses etc. For a start nurses should be getting a 20% pay increase, for the work they do they are underpaid. At the very least teachers should maintain the same salary structure as they have. There is scope for cuts in the public sector but teacher, nurses, social workers etc are not the area to be targeted.

If there is to be an avoidance of mass redundancies etc., there has to be a blanket pay cut in the public sector. With huge drops in the collection of taxes, where's the money supposed to come from?

The private sector is self-culling. When businesses fold, put their employees on short time, look for redundancies, or reduce pay rates, it's because the sources of income are being hammered.

I would say that any businesses still handing out pay-rises or bonuses would definitely be in the minority. With the general tight-fistedness of of Irish employers, they don't need much of an excuse to look for ways of reducing the payroll and still get the same workload.

The only teachers for whom I have any sympathy are the ones subbing. If they want any money for the summer break, they have to plod off down the dole office, and the only chance they have of becoming permanent is when a teacher retires or dies, so that they can get onto the ladder.

With the fall in the cost of living, pay reductions are only reductions on the face of it. If we're all going to take a painless as possible hit, we'll all have to make damn certain that we won't take any price increases lying down, nor insufficient price reductions e.g. electricity and gas.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

T-K-O wrote: »

20% cut in numbers not salary. The sector is over populated...

Sure some private sector employees are still getting increase bonuses etc but they are profitable companies, others are getting the same cuts as the public sector...

A) You have all the figures to hand, have you? We can take a blanket cut across the entire public service? 20% reduction in nurses, teachers (at all levels) and guards, as well as admin staff in social welfare offices, cleaners, customs officers, and wildlife rangers. Amazing how it works out evenly in all sectors! And not one child's eduaction will be impacted on or one patient affected. Brilliant!

If there are private sector employees in profitable companies continuing to get pay rises (as there are of course and plenty of them despite the whailing we hear) how can just hitting Public Sector works with the Pensions Levy be a fair solution?

I spoke with a young Teacher last night who pays full PRSI, 7% towards a pension, and the pension levy now on top of this. Why pay 3 times into a pension fund?

ejmaztec

Matthew Fit Butterfly wrote: »

I spoke with a young Teacher last night who pays full PRSI, 7% towards a pension, and the pension levy now on top of this. Why pay 3 times into a pension fund?

The government probably thought it best to call it a "pension contribution", instead of the "extra cash for the government to play with and get away with" contribution.

I doubt very much that the pension payments will be trebled when the public servants retire.

ixoy

Matthew Fit Butterfly wrote: »

If there are private sector employees in profitable companies continuing to get pay rises (as there are of course and plenty of them despite the whailing we hear) how can just hitting Public Sector works with the Pensions Levy be a fair solution?

Because the public sector are in the equivalent of a loss-making company? Do they really think they should only take a cut when every single private sector company has? Do they feel that the only "equitable" way is through higher taxation for all (including those who've taken a pay cut elsewhere)?

I spoke with a young Teacher last night who pays full PRSI, 7% towards a pension, and the pension levy now on top of this. Why pay 3 times into a pension fund?

Because they're two seperate pension funds? One is for the social welfare pension and the other for their job pension - just as anyone in the private sector would.
The pension levy should have just been a pay cut - would stop a fair bit of the whining and been a tad more honest.

ntlbell

Seth Wonderful Stripe wrote: »

Are you a doctor that specialises in weight loss?
If so I guess your patients are pretty happy.

that's how good a job my teacher did.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ixoy wrote: »

Because the public sector are in the equivalent of a loss-making company? Do they really think they should only take a cut when every single private sector company has? Do they feel that the only "equitable" way is through higher taxation for all (including those who've taken a pay cut elsewhere)?


Because they're two seperate pension funds? One is for the social welfare pension and the other for their job pension - just as anyone in the private sector would.
The pension levy should have just been a pay cut - would stop a fair bit of the whining and been a tad more honest.

Yes on the higher taxation for ALL solution. The Public Sector is not and never was a "profit" making initiative. Your comparison with a loss making company doesn't work. Care to put a margin on saving a life?

They do not have access to the social welfare pension and a state job pension. It is completely different to you or I paying towards the Old Age Pension and our private pensions. They pay to both for a single pension. Get the facts straight.

T-K-O

Matthew Fit Butterfly wrote: »

A) You have all the figures to hand, have you? We can take a blanket cut across the entire public service? 20% reduction in nurses, teachers (at all levels) and guards, as well as admin staff in social welfare offices, cleaners, customs officers, and wildlife rangers. Amazing how it works out evenly in all sectors! And not one child's eduaction will be impacted on or one patient affected. Brilliant!

If there are private sector employees in profitable companies continuing to get pay rises (as there are of course and plenty of them despite the whailing we hear) how can just hitting Public Sector works with the Pensions Levy be a fair solution?

I spoke with a young Teacher last night who pays full PRSI, 7% towards a pension, and the pension levy now on top of this. Why pay 3 times into a pension fund?

A)
Where did I say cut 20% of nurses or gards, the 20% is mostly admin staff. The last set of figures I read was something like 1 admin for every 2/3 hospital staff that is a complete joke. Of course the sector is going to be affected its called a recession what would you do, hire more staff.
Brilliant.


So private sector should pay for the sub standard public sector - give me a break. At least that teacher has a guaranteed pension and if she doesnt like it she can always go work for a private company if its so fantanstic on the other side.