Charity bag packers in Tescos

starbelgrade

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

My daughters school does it. I don't think a primary school should have to get the kids to pack bags for money. If we keep paying, the government don't have to.

With all due respect to the school, which is brilliant, they need to lobby more, pack less.

Good point.

rio-rose

i to agree that bagpackers are a nighmare..
they throw everything into any bag avaible frozen with the bread etc..
and jam them to the top..

where i work we need to do fundraising (playschool) for a new floor surface which is working out expensive 4,000 euro

and at the last meeting it was said wat about bag packing everyone had the same moans and groans as on this, they too have had bad experienses so litterly its everyone

and a bit of info, was told dunnes is booked up untill after xmas for people wanting to do it as a fundraiser

starbelgrade

I thought play schools were commercial businesses? Ie., they make profits. I could be wrong here - I don't have any kids - so don't shoot me down if I'm wrong!

TequilaMockingBird

starbelgrade wrote: »

I thought play schools were commercial businesses? Ie., they make profits. I could be wrong here - I don't have any kids - so don't shoot me down if I'm wrong!

Some are private, not all.

rio-rose

starbelgrade wrote: »

I thought play schools were commercial businesses? Ie., they make profits. I could be wrong here - I don't have any kids - so don't shoot me down if I'm wrong!

not in our case starbelgrade,

the only money we make is wat we take in everywk (@10euro a day per child)

so you take out ESB, supplies, etc etc
we do have dam all left
and in our case the playschool hasnt changed in the last 25 + yrs
so we love to get a fresh up

artyeva

i neither agree nor disagree with the kids actually being there, i just choose not to let them pack my bags for 2 reasons:

1 - i bring my own canvas reusable bags
2 - i can't afford to give any money to ANY charity.

that's just the way it is - i lost my job through redundancy last year and some months i'm not breaking even. every last cent i have goes to keeping a roof over my head - not supporting some local sports club. what does gall me though is the cheeky feckers of kids who make rude or snide comments when i don't throw something in their bucket. :mad:

starbelgrade

rio-rose wrote: »

not in our case starbelgrade,

the only money we make is wat we take in everywk (@10euro a day per child)

so you take out ESB, supplies, etc etc
we do have dam all left
and in our case the playschool hasnt changed in the last 25 + yrs
so we love to get a fresh up

I see.

nicolaonfire

I had to bag pack for 2 weeks when I was 14. It was awful.
You knew that people didn't want you packing their bags and looking at what they are buying but I was made do it.

I don't mind bag packers now though because I know what it's like to be standing there, I just let them pack away, saves me packing anyway!

starbelgrade

nicolaonfire wrote: »

I had to bag pack for 2 weeks when I was 14. It was awful.
You knew that people didn't want you packing their bags and looking at what they are buying but I was made do it.

I don't mind bag packers now though because I know what it's like to be standing there, I just let them pack away, saves me packing anyway!

I don't have any problem with the bag packers themselves - I don't really care that they make a balls of packing them, but I disagree with the principle of it.

Jabby

starbelgrade wrote: »

Now, I am not a fan of charity in the slightest - in fact, I believe it cuases more harm than it does good, for the simple fact that it allows those responsible for looking after those who can't look after themselves, to pick & choose what we give & when we give it, when really what we should give is all that is needed. By "those responsible", I mean us, as a society & by the simple fact that there is a need for charities, means that we have failed in our responsibilities.

Lookin' down through a tide of no return
Is a field where the crops no longer grow
Parched is the land, strangled an' be damned
There for the Grace Of God Go I

starbelgrade

Jabby wrote: »

Lookin' down through a tide of no return
Is a field where the crops no longer grow
Parched is the land, strangled an' be damned
There for the Grace Of God Go I

Very poetic, but I haven't a clue what your intended meaning is. Plus, I hate when people sing stuff at you in reply - usually it's some random Bob Marley quote. That p*sses me off.

artyeva

starbelgrade wrote: »

I hate when people sing stuff at you in reply - usually it's some random Bob Marley quote.

in fairness it's a quote from a song by someone called ''flogging molly''. but i agree - what the heck does it have to do with the topic of bag packers in supermarkets???!!!

tuppence

Lets face it, we all know that this country hasn't got proper provision for its people that need assistance. Its a disgrace that staff should be fundraising for xray machines for temple street and schools subsidised by this type of fundraising. Its rubbish. But we need to change it from the top down. :mad:

In the meantime I'd just give the bag packers whatever I can afford.

Jabby

starbelgrade wrote: »

Very poetic, but I haven't a clue what your intended meaning is. Plus, I hate when people sing stuff at you in reply - usually it's some random Bob Marley quote. That p*sses me off.

Hit a nerve there I'd say. Let me put it a little more simply so.

Let's say that anyone these days could find themselves very suddenly in a position where they may have to accept charity of some kind or other. These organizations have to collect their money whatever way they can. They depend on our generosity.

By the way, is there any charity that are NOT on the black list? How about the Sligo Vincent de Paul. Wouldn't a spare euro from those of us who are still fortunate to have it come in handy for some unfortunate who may have dipped below the poverty line through no fault of their own? I'm sure he or she would appreciate it and wouldn't care where the money came from.

Even if it IS a kids football team, what would be so bad about contributing (that is if you can afford it of course) to a set of jerseys or to the upkeep of a club etc. Where the hell else do they get their money from? Instead of pontificating about 'our responsibilities' etc, come up with some positive solutions for God sake.

If someone doesn't want to give away any money to these people, then they should keep it.

Stop snivelling about it.

rgds,

Jabby

darealtulip

tuppence wrote: »

Lets face it, we all know that this country hasn't got proper provision for its people that need assistance. Its a disgrace that staff should be fundraising for xray machines for temple street and schools subsidised by this type of fundraising. Its rubbish. But we need to change it from the top down. :mad:

In the meantime I'd just give the bag packers whatever I can afford.

And that exactly makes sure the goverment doesn't have to fund them because you do. That is the whole point.

darealtulip

Jabby wrote: »

Hit a nerve there I'd say. Let me put it a little more simply so.
Even if it IS a kids football team, what would be so bad about contributing (that is if you can afford it of course) to a set of jerseys or to the upkeep of a club etc. Where the hell else do they get their money from? Instead of pontificating about 'our responsibilities' etc, come up with some positive solutions for God sake.

Beside contribution and sponsor ship? I think that would pay for all that.

It desensitizes me because they are there every week.

Jabby

darealtulip wrote: »

Beside contribution and sponsor ship? I think that would pay for all that.

It desensitizes me because they are there every week.

I see your point I suppose but there's very little sponsorship these days eh?

magnumlady

It's such a boring way to raise money I think.

Why not hold a car boot/jumble sale, sponsored dance/slience/walk, disco, whatever much more interesting for all concerned and less likely to cause anyone grief.

Madge

I suppose it seemed like a good idea at the time... and I'll bet it does help elderly and frailer people get their shopping packed

darealtulip

Jabby wrote: »

I see your point I suppose but there's very little sponsorship these days eh?

Fair point, I think they need to rethink the fund raising a bit. I think it is a bit habit as well. This is what they always did so lets do it again. Raffles are always a good way to raise funds.

tuppence

darealtulip wrote: »

Fair point, I think they need to rethink the fund raising a bit. I think it is a bit habit as well. This is what they always did so lets do it again. Raffles are always a good way to raise funds.

Hang on, raffles are still fundraising! Sure isnt that letting the government off the hook from their responsibilities. Wasnt that your point!
Packing bags is just one way of subsidising these projects. Good community projects like Rio Roses will be getting a mixed bag of income, a little from the govenment (not enough imo), some income from parents and the rest from fundraising. The bag packing aspect of fundrasing is just one way but seems to annoy a fair few people (and people with OCD and the like! ) As Madge rightfully points out it could also be providing a service to others, eg frailer people who need that assistance.
We are all in a very honoured postion if we can pick and choose how we give. As Jabby rightfully says we may end up receiving in the end, so perhaps we need to think of that. Then our principled stand on letting the government off the hook may have to go anyway, if the alternative is poverty.

starbelgrade

Jabby wrote: »

Hit a nerve there I'd say. Let me put it a little more simply so.

Let's say that anyone these days could find themselves very suddenly in a position where they may have to accept charity of some kind or other. These organizations have to collect their money whatever way they can. They depend on our generosity.

By the way, is there any charity that are NOT on the black list? How about the Sligo Vincent de Paul. Wouldn't a spare euro from those of us who are still fortunate to have it come in handy for some unfortunate who may have dipped below the poverty line through no fault of their own? I'm sure he or she would appreciate it and wouldn't care where the money came from.

Even if it IS a kids football team, what would be so bad about contributing (that is if you can afford it of course) to a set of jerseys or to the upkeep of a club etc. Where the hell else do they get their money from? Instead of pontificating about 'our responsibilities' etc, come up with some positive solutions for God sake.

If someone doesn't want to give away any money to these people, then they should keep it.

Stop snivelling about it.

rgds,

Jabby

A decent, humane society would provide for all the needs of the needy. We, however, live in a two (or multi) tiered society that affords some the "privelege" of throwing the odd euro into a box to "help" the "underpriveleged".

This is wrong and unnaceptable. It is a short term solution to a long term problem and does little but distract us from the real issue, which is that a lot of people in need are effectively forced to beg for money to help them make ends meet or pay for medicines / care etc.

In a society as rich as ours, we have no excuse for this terrible situation.

I have no doubt that most of the people who work for charities, do so with good intentions, but their intentions are misguided. I work on a regular basis with government lobbyist groups on this, and other issues which I believe strongly about.

I certainly don't go around pontificating & snivelling as you inferred. In this case, I simply started a thread to state an opinion, which in turn has lead to a very interesting discussion, which surely is one of the main reasons for having forums in the first place.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds."

(Bob Marley, "Redemption Song".)

Madge

What I find strange is that, even in these recessionary times, when a lot of Irish people are on the breadline or struggling to make ends meet, the govt. is still giving millions of euro away in foreign aid

starbelgrade

Madge wrote: »

What I find strange is that, even in these recessionary times, when a lot of Irish people are on the breadline or struggling to make ends meet, the govt. is still giving millions of euro away in foreign aid

The percentage of our GDP that we give in foreign aid is very small & we rarely meet the full amount that we pledge to give. In a sense, it is the government's version of a Trocaire box.

Madge

Still, it's millions of Euro that shouldn't be given away abroad should it?

starbelgrade

Madge wrote: »

Still, it's millions of Euro that shouldn't be given away abroad should it?

It doesn't address the core issue - the fact is that many 3rd world countries are in the state they are in because of their "political" leaders, most of whom are dictators who run their countries by force. But there is nothing to be gained for the "Leaders of the Free World" by sorting this out.

On the other hand, there are people in these countries who need help a lot more than people in the 1st world do. Yes, there are people here who are struggling to pay bills, mortgages etc, but there are few - if any - dying from malnutrition / maleria etc.

The world has enough resources to help keep everyone fed & healthy, but the way the pie is divided up, means that some can gorge themselves while others have to rely on the crumbs from the table.

Madge

starbelgrade wrote: »

It doesn't address the core issue - the fact is that many 3rd world countries are in the state they are in because of their "political" leaders, most of whom are dictators who run their countries by force. But there is nothing to be gained for the "Leaders of the Free World" by sorting this out.

Bit of a contradiction? If there is nothing to gained for "leaders of the free world" for sorting out the poverty of the 3rd World, then why are they sending over millions in aid?

I think that it's all a struggle for control of resources and power isn't it..

To discuss this further would probably bring this thread off topic..

starbelgrade wrote: »

The world has enough resources to help keep everyone fed & healthy, but the way the pie is divided up, means that some can gorge themselves while others have to rely on the crumbs from the table.

True, but it doesn't make any sense to keep on and on giving "crumbs from the table", to use your phrase. This isn't addressing the inequity in the division of resources. In fact it is only prolonging the situation of them relying on the "crumbs"..

starbelgrade wrote: »

On the other hand, there are people in these countries who need help a lot more than people in the 1st world do. Yes, there are people here who are struggling to pay bills, mortgages etc, but there are few - if any - dying from malnutrition / maleria etc.

I truly believe in assisting those less well off but I also believe the vast majority of charitable donations from the common man or woman are not spent wisely in those countries... I believe all this aid we, the 1st-world countries, are continually donating is only perpetuating this never ending cycle of poverty, poverty which is constantly infiltrating these countries like some incurable virus (the irony)..

darealtulip

tuppence wrote: »

Hang on, raffles are still fundraising! Sure isnt that letting the government off the hook from their responsibilities. Wasnt that your point!
Packing bags is just one way of subsidising these projects. Good community projects like Rio Roses will be getting a mixed bag of income, a little from the govenment (not enough imo), some income from parents and the rest from fundraising. The bag packing aspect of fundrasing is just one way but seems to annoy a fair few people (and people with OCD and the like! ) As Madge rightfully points out it could also be providing a service to others, eg frailer people who need that assistance.
We are all in a very honoured postion if we can pick and choose how we give. As Jabby rightfully says we may end up receiving in the end, so perhaps we need to think of that. Then our principled stand on letting the government off the hook may have to go anyway, if the alternative is poverty.

You get it wrong again, sport clubs are not charity's and hardly the responsebility of the government. They have a member base in which they can do this. You mix up the both now. I was reacting on jabby's post about a sport club. You were talking about the xray machine etc. Two completley different things.

I wont give to any of them. The sport clubs could do other fundraising under their own member base. And the other should be paid by the government. You giving to it makes the government stop paying because the funds will be raised anyway. So you get as happened in a lot of country's that government first see if people pay for it themselves and if that doesnt work they will see if they have the responsibilty to do it.

Please don't mix the two issues up with my posts. That they both use packing bags as a fund raising doesn't make them the same.

tuppence

darealtulip wrote: »

You get it wrong again, sport clubs are not charity's and hardly the responsebility of the government. They have a member base in which they can do this. You mix up the both now. I was reacting on jabby's post about a sport club. You were talking about the xray machine etc. Two completley different things.

I wont give to any of them. The sport clubs could do other fundraising under their own member base. And the other should be paid by the government. You giving to it makes the government stop paying because the funds will be raised anyway. So you get as happened in a lot of country's that government first see if people pay for it themselves and if that doesnt work they will see if they have the responsibilty to do it.

Please don't mix the two issues up with my posts. That they both use packing bags as a fund raising doesn't make them the same.

Its all part of the same continuim. I think you are wilfully splitting hairs. Lets call it the voluntary sector, the third sector, the social economy...which charties are but a part of, are all our doing a job eg providing a home help service, providing a hospice care, provding sports services etc All because the private or the public sector (government) either dont think its profitable or in the case of the government wont provide them directly. The Irish government yes gets away with tokenistically fundng. In your example of the sports club,, the gaelic athletic association is the biggest provider of sports services in Ireland and the biggest voluntary organisation in Ireland. They recive small funding from the Sports Council afaik but most of their money comes in through gate receipts and volunteering and fundraising from the public. They do need support from the local voluntary membership base to survive.

We get the government we choose. I wouldnt agree that you stop supporting vol sector in the meantime.

darealtulip

tuppence wrote: »

Its all part of the same continuim. I think you are wilfully splitting hairs. Lets call it the voluntary sector, the third sector, the social economy...which charties are but a part of, are all our doing a job eg providing a home help service, providing a hospice care, provding sports services etc All because the private or the public sector (government) either dont think its profitable or in the case of the government wont provide them directly. The Irish government yes gets away with tokenistically fundng. In your example of the sports club,, the gaelic athletic association is the biggest provider of sports services in Ireland and the biggest voluntary organisation in Ireland. They recive small funding from the Sports Council afaik but most of their money comes in through gate receipts and volunteering and fundraising from the public. They do need support from the local voluntary membership base to survive.

We get the government we choose. I wouldnt agree that you stop supporting vol sector in the meantime.

Sports is still not a responsibility of a government, nor is it charity. And as you point out correctly the have their own funds.

You can talk what you want, you tried to say that I was contradicting my self which I was not.

I dont believe in charity but your more than welcome to do so if that makes you feel good. Again that was not the point made.

Having volantary workers in the hospitals in Holland costed the nurses their job. Just an example.