Charity bag packers in Tescos

dardevle

darealtulip wrote: »

Sports is still not a responsibility of a government, nor is it charity.

.health and social welfare is the responsibility of government...how much worse off would things be without the sporting organisations,social clubs and youth groups etc if the funding for them(from whatever source) was to cease?



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TequilaMockingBird

dardevle wrote: »

.health and social welfare is the responsibility of government...how much worse off would things be without the sporting organisations,social clubs and youth groups etc if the funding for them(from whatever source) was to cease?



.

As a parent it is my responsibility to make sure my child is fit and healthy. If that means I need to pack bags to support her football team/club, I will. If, God forbid, she becomes ill, or indeed I, I shouldn't need to have to pack bags to ensure we get care or treatment.

St Vincent de Paul shouldn't be here. We shouldn't need it. Supporting it supports the government squandering our money.

I think it starts from the ground up. We need to say no, I pay tax not to run your ministerial car, or to fly you by helicopter a short jaunt, but to ensure everyone in this country is given proper health care, and can eat, and can pay the rent. If we do it, they don't have to.

starbelgrade

Madge wrote: »

Bit of a contradiction? If there is nothing to gained for "leaders of the free world" for sorting out the poverty of the 3rd World, then why are they sending over millions in aid?

Tokenism / guilt assuaging etc.

[/QUOTE]I think that it's all a struggle for control of resources and power isn't it..[/QUOTE]

Yep - that's why the Leaders of the Free World have little interest in Africa & all it's problems.




[/QUOTE]True, but it doesn't make any sense to keep on and on giving "crumbs from the table", to use your phrase. This isn't addressing the inequity in the division of resources. In fact it is only prolonging the situation of them relying on the "crumbs"..[/QUOTE]

That was exactly what my point was.


[/QUOTE]I truly believe in assisting those less well off but I also believe the vast majority of charitable donations from the common man or woman are not spent wisely in those countries... I believe all this aid we, the 1st-world countries, are continually donating is only perpetuating this never ending cycle of poverty, poverty which is constantly infiltrating these countries like some incurable virus (the irony)..[/QUOTE]

Again, I agree.

starbelgrade

I haven't got the hang of quoting more than one quote per post, as my post above proves, sadly.

dardevle

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i don't disagree,in an ideal world none of these charities would/should be necessary...but they did'nt spring up overnight and if the support for them was to evaporate tomorrow do you think the powers that be would step in to pick up the slack when?

starbelgrade

dardevle wrote: »

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i don't disagree,in an ideal world none of these charities would/should be necessary...but they did'nt spring up overnight and if the support for them was to evaporate tomorrow do you think the powers that be would step in to pick up the slack when?

When people start getting REALLY angry, start questioning what the real issues are, when there are no charities to throw money at - that's when. And there is no time like the present. The world is a f*cked up place, but it's not hopeless.

tuppence

starbelgrade wrote: »

When people start getting REALLY angry, start questioning what the real issues are, when there are no charities to throw money at - that's when. And there is no time like the present. The world is a f*cked up place, but it's not hopeless.

People here may also have a look at the political manifestos of parties before they continue voting centre right governents who create a two tiered health service. A service, in which it doesnt matter whether your need or that of your child is great and if you have paid your taxes. It depends on ability to pay. People have stood around and watched a steady privitisation of the health service. The voluntary sector and charities should be complementary and not the main providers. We need to be voting for parties whose philosophy reflects our core beliefs and maybe become more politically savy in general. I dont think starving charties supply is the way to go at this time.:(
I think we need a good war, thats why the NHS was set up!

darealtulip

Totally agree that voluntary work should be complementry. I have seen it back home with youth work and nurses. They put one youth worker at work to manage the voluntary workers. First we had well trained professionals on these jobs. Same in hospitals, nurses have now 3 minutes per patient and have no time to talk or care for patients, this is done by voluntary worker or poorly paid untrained people. This all happend while we had the good times.

We had a very good health sytem and social system. The price for that is/was high taxes. My father paid 65% income tax, our lowest rate is 36%. We have lots of taxes you would never hear of in other country's. If you want a welfare state you have to pay the price. Charity is not a solution unless you see it as a voluntary tax and then the most popular charity wins.

Politcal party's that promise lower taxes cant promise a welfare state. They do I know.

darealtulip

dardevle wrote: »

.health and social welfare is the responsibility of government...how much worse off would things be without the sporting organisations,social clubs and youth groups etc if the funding for them(from whatever source) was to cease?



.

I agree that health and social welfare is the responsibility of the government. But sport clubs new jersey's etc are not. We just had to buy your own jersey and if you really couldn't afford one then you got it from the club. Sportclubs have members and sponser ships. Youth clubs are the responsibility of the government for sure and shouldn't have to raise funds in other ways. That they do is fundamentaly wrong in my eyes and it's my opinion that when we give to these charity's the government doesn't have to.

When governments have enough funds to pay for sports (as happens in holland) that's great but it doesn't make it their responsibility unless we voted specificly for them to do so, if that's the case I'm simply wrong:D. But then they should get money from the government.

Madge

starbelgrade wrote: »

Tokenism / guilt assuaging etc

...that's why the Leaders of the Free World have little interest in Africa & all it's problems.

I was referring to 1st world countries when I mentioned control of power and resources... it's us who want to control them... I think it runs a lot deeper than "tokenism" and "guilt assuaging"..

nicolaonfire

Great debate

Everyone thinks they are right. Nobody is going to win!!!
You guys are all winners ha!

darealtulip

nicolaonfire wrote: »

Great debate

Everyone thinks they are right. Nobody is going to win!!!
You guys are all winners ha!

:D:D as usual doesn't stop us trying though!

GG66

Madge wrote: »

Bit of a contradiction? If there is nothing to gained for "leaders of the free world" for sorting out the poverty of the 3rd World, then why are they sending over millions in aid?

I think that it's all a struggle for control of resources and power isn't it..

To discuss this further would probably bring this thread off topic..


True, but it doesn't make any sense to keep on and on giving "crumbs from the table", to use your phrase. This isn't addressing the inequity in the division of resources. In fact it is only prolonging the situation of them relying on the "crumbs"..


I truly believe in assisting those less well off but I also believe the vast majority of charitable donations from the common man or woman are not spent wisely in those countries... I believe all this aid we, the 1st-world countries, are continually donating is only perpetuating this never ending cycle of poverty, poverty which is constantly infiltrating these countries like some incurable virus (the irony)..

There is a massive rush for resources in Africa, the Chinese are all over it. And this is one reason why its in such a state. Global corporations raping it for what its worth.

There is another element though that causes such poverty and that is unfair international trade policies. Irish farmers receive huge subsidies from the EU, African farmers do not. They cannot compete while these rules are in place. So to a certain extent our subsidised lifestyle causes poverty in these countries.

Charities that receive your donations are campaigning to relieve these injustices (Oxfam, Trocaire). These very same charities successfully lobbied the Government to contribute a % of our GDP to overseas aid. You do not need to give money to make change, you can become a campaigner.

There is no one in Ireland that is anywhere near as poor as most people in Africa or Asia. It is all relative but even the poorest people in Ireland live a better life than most in Africa. No one here is starving, yes they have a poorer standard of life than others around them but we are really fortunate and most of us are relatively wealthy i.e. in the top 15% of wealth in the world

RLJ

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I work in a super market and you often get complaints about the bag packers for one thing or another. I have often sent the whole lot home.

don't believe they should be allowed on checkouts in your face

aine100

I will usually give money to charity if there is someone collecting, but I do prefer to give to health charities and charities like the St Vincent D'Paul rather than a sporting charity. When I do make an attempt to go to Mass it angers me that political parties collect money at the church gate. I think that's just wrong, very wrong. Those people with clipboards on the street that come from Dublin and get bank details off you really annoy me. They harass people.

Regarding kids packing your bags... I don't like it. What if you had bought tampons or condoms or something. You would be hiding them. I don't mind giving them a euro or two, but please don't pack my bag. I had smoked salmon and those lovely smelly garlic sausages from tesco, and a kid was packing,and their nose was all wrinkled, they were disgusted, it was so funny.. poor thing.

darealtulip

aine100 wrote: »

I will usually give money to charity if there is someone collecting, but I do prefer to give to health charities and charities like the St Vincent D'Paul rather than a sporting charity. When I do make an attempt to go to Mass it angers me that political parties collect money at the church gate. I think that's just wrong, very wrong. Those people with clipboards on the street that come from Dublin and get bank details off you really annoy me. They harass people.

Regarding kids packing your bags... I don't like it. What if you had bought tampons or condoms or something. You would be hiding them. I don't mind giving them a euro or two, but please don't pack my bag. I had smoked salmon and those lovely smelly garlic sausages from tesco, and a kid was packing,and their nose was all wrinkled, they were disgusted, it was so funny.. poor thing.

LOL. !

bobcar61

aine100 wrote: »

Those people with clipboards on the street that come from Dublin and get bank details off you really annoy me. They harass people.

Don't get Basquille with these people, from what I have seen in some of his other posts he absolutely can't stand them.

Merch

aine100 wrote: »

I will usually give money to charity if there is someone collecting, but I do prefer to give to health charities and charities like the St Vincent D'Paul rather than a sporting charity. When I do make an attempt to go to Mass it angers me that political parties collect money at the church gate. I think that's just wrong, very wrong. Those people with clipboards on the street that come from Dublin and get bank details off you really annoy me. They harass people.
Regarding kids packing your bags... I don't like it. What if you had bought tampons or condoms or something. You would be hiding them. I don't mind giving them a euro or two, but please don't pack my bag..

Yeh, give charity for someone collecting for medical condition, but if I'm in any doubt, I ask for the ID, they all look crap but if they are funny about it, I walk. As for sporting charity, couple of coppers not euros for me, football is the cheapest sport, why the hell should I pay for it?? tight bast**rds.
Ha ha :pac: hiding the condoms and tampons, never seen bag packers in boots.
Political parties collect outside churches after Mass, bloody cheek! havent been in years. I would tell them to pi** off!

The main thing I noticed about your post is people on the street asking for bank details? they never got that far with me. I just wouldnt give my details out unsecured like that. A guy was coming door to door recently for a charity, he was telling me oh mary so and so signed up for 12 months, I could quite clearly see her bank account no. and sort code and name, if they're that leisurely with the details, sorry no money, well it would be no money full stop, I offered to give a cheque donation but wanted me to sign up to a direct debit! Comission??
I will give a cash donation to a genuine charity, but not my details, I had untold bother from one very well known charity after I gave them some money, ended up bombarded with requests from India and a few other places, christian charity stuff around asia, they had obviously passed my details on, this was the only one of 2 main charities I had given more than change to. The other one virtually refused to unsubscribe me, ended up sending few letters, last one said I will follow this up with legal action if you do not desist from contacting me and remove my details from your database, funny never heard from them again :pac:
I will give to charities, some need and are very deserving, I'd rsather not be mugged for it.

sorella

Interesting thread; thank you.

Some small points occur.

NB we are an order, not Irish thankfully, whose work is with abandoned babies in India, so our view of poverty is skewed.

However bad the situation is here, compared with the areas we work in.

we always are deeply thankful to those who still support us in these difficult times.

It is always choice; if you give, what you give and who to.

Always the less well off give more than the well off.

we have a small presence in Ireland now; used to trade at Sligo farmers' market and now sell our jams etc by the anchor/quay in Donegal Town at weekends.... off there in a few minutes.

We also work with the homeless wherever they are; our Mother House is in Canada, where the homeless situation and dire poverty among First Nation people is appalling.

And we keep a watch on the situation here in Ireland, via the Salvation Army; at the moment it is under control; we are putting some resources in even so.

Many who you see on the street; if we can rehome in the first six months, fine. If not, sadly many become habituated and prefer the street. They all know where to get a meal and where to get a bed.

And yes, all the organisations need more hands; we have a small army of active associates in every country except Ireland, without whom we could not function as we do; still need to find some here.

A few hours a week?

Always it is choice; we have packed bags to raise funds; we pack them well and carefully.... As we would our own.

Would happily do so again if we get chance; and it is hard work, believe me on that. It teaaches great respect for supermarket staff.

And try not to think about the contents!

Small change is great; all adds up. Shrapnel we call it:)

Notes are even better; always aware that our work is limited by what we can earn; and we all work as hard as we can for this.

We buy all we need from eg Vincent de Paul; they go so much good here.

Opps; time to go and see if we can sell some jams etc on this glorious day.

Blessings and thanks....

starbelgrade

sorella wrote: »

Interesting thread; thank you.



NB we are an order, not Irish thankfully,

What order and why are you thankful not to be Irish?

sorella

Ah, these topics really are off topic and I would not do that to a good thread.

NB I meant thankful not to be an Irish Religious Order.

Maybe see my weblog.

http://www.xanga.com/anchoressnun

Enjoy the sunshine ....:)

starbelgrade wrote: »

What order and why are you thankful not to be Irish?