Are the teachers living in the real world?

Hillel

achtung4 wrote: »

Sour grapes, sour grapes, sour grapes. As a teacher reading this I can't help but ponder... I wonder how many of the people who have "contributed" to this discussion are people who at one time or another held aspirations to join the profession. Teaching is a noble profession. As i'm sure you are aware, the points for entering teaching courses are particularly high. Teachers have worked hard to get to where they are today. This was a chance open to everybody. JUst because we are fortunate enough to be in the position we are today, there is no need tbe resentful. As I type this it is 11:30. I finished work today at 2:30. Many might perceive that this is only half a days work. I can assure you that a full days work was completed before the bell went. So god bless you begrudgers, hope you get over your feelings of inadequacy and resentment sometime and find peace with your own professions. Say a prayer for us poor teachers, the pension levy has hit us hard

I seriously question the calibre of some members of the noble profession. First we had the juvenile outbursts at the teachers conferences, and now this.

(For your info achtung4... I have years of experience in the educational sector. So, certainly no sour grapes on my part. )

jimmycrackcorm

achtung4 wrote: »

I finished work today at 2:30. Many might perceive that this is only half a days work. I can assure you that a full days work was completed before the bell went.

Hopefully achtung4 is not a maths teacher.

Alcatel

achtung4 wrote: »

Sour grapes, sour grapes, sour grapes. As a teacher reading this I can't help but ponder... I wonder how many of the people who have "contributed" to this discussion are people who at one time or another held aspirations to join the profession. Teaching is a noble profession. As i'm sure you are aware, the points for entering teaching courses are particularly high. Teachers have worked hard to get to where they are today. This was a chance open to everybody. JUst because we are fortunate enough to be in the position we are today, there is no need tbe resentful. As I type this it is 11:30. I finished work today at 2:30. Many might perceive that this is only half a days work. I can assure you that a full days work was completed before the bell went. So god bless you begrudgers, hope you get over your feelings of inadequacy and resentment sometime and find peace with your own professions. Say a prayer for us poor teachers, the pension levy has hit us hard

I don't begrudge teachers their hard work. I just think that they're overpaid for it. To point you to this, from the abovementioned economist, based on an OECD report:

Sleepy

achtung4 wrote: »

Sour grapes, sour grapes, sour grapes. As a teacher reading this I can't help but ponder... I wonder how many of the people who have "contributed" to this discussion are people who at one time or another held aspirations to join the profession. Teaching is a noble profession. As i'm sure you are aware, the points for entering teaching courses are particularly high. Teachers have worked hard to get to where they are today. This was a chance open to everybody. JUst because we are fortunate enough to be in the position we are today, there is no need tbe resentful. As I type this it is 11:30. I finished work today at 2:30. Many might perceive that this is only half a days work. I can assure you that a full days work was completed before the bell went. So god bless you begrudgers, hope you get over your feelings of inadequacy and resentment sometime and find peace with your own professions. Say a prayer for us poor teachers, the pension levy has hit us hard

With that 'firm' a grasp on reality, I sincerely hope that you're never teaching my daughter.

jimmmy

achtung4 wrote: »

. As a teacher reading this I can't help but ponder...

I finished work today at 2:30. Many might perceive that this is only half a days work. I can assure you that a full days work was completed before the bell went. So god bless you begrudgers, hope you get over your feelings of inadequacy and resentment sometime and find peace with your own professions. Say a prayer for us poor teachers, the pension levy has hit us hard

I pity the children that you teach....you are not fit to be even a teacher. If you think working until 2.30 pm is a full days work, no wonder a quarter of adults in the country are illiterate, such are the poor teaching standards. Shame on you and many of your comrades who are equally underworked and overpaid. In the papers at the weekend any article I read was highly critical of teachers, and there was a proposal to only pay you for one out of your 3 months holidays.

MusRo

jahalpin wrote: »

Teachers aren't as badly paid as they make out. They also get over 4 months paid holidays throughout the year to get over the treatment they get from a small percentage of students \ parents

Not to mention all the extra cash they make on the side doing grinds.... tax free for the most part.... How much are grinds these days... 50 euros an hour or more?

graduate

I don't begrudge teachers their hard work. I just think that they're overpaid for it.

Interesting chart. If Irish teachers did 10% more in year, like Germany, then their salary per hour would be at the top of the band rather than above it. Some increase in the school year should be mooted.

MusRo

Gambit32 wrote: »

Teachers have by far the handiest number,great pay,job satifaction,4 months holidays every year,and a million other perk,and they have the nerve to ask for more,have you ever heard of a teacher being fired for incompetancy?,I remember many from my school years that should have been

The government should bring in performance related pay!

1) It would weed out the teachers who are not up to scratch and don't deserve to have a cushy job (i.e. remove those who entered the profession as they didn't know what else they could do with their primary qualification and it was a cushy job).

2) We would really see an improvement in the level of education in the country (which has gone to pot IMO!) as only the best teachers would remain in the system.

3) As a result the rest of us would be more tolerant of teachers requests as we would be happy in the knowledge that we (through our children) are getting value for our money

youngblood

Are you sick of high paid teachers?

Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year!

It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit!

We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them€3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be €19.50 a day (8:45 to 4:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours). Each parent should pay €19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.
Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s €19.50 x 30 = €585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!!
I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…. That’s €585 X 180= €105,300 per year.

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees?
Well, we could pay them minimum wage (€7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to €8.00 an hour.
That would be €8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = €280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is €50,000.

€50,000/180 days = €277.77/per day/30 students=€9.25/6.5 hours =
€1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter (and they even EDUCATE your kids!)

Sleepy

Wow, youngblood, that's some incredibly facetious logic...

Oh btw - do you know where I can get a decent babysitter for €3 an hour?

osurdivol

gurramok wrote: »

What are you on about?

Facts have been posted about an average pay of 60k, they earn more than any other teachers in the EU and they are going to strike over this pay in Sept while the country is going broke and you call that begrudging? :eek:

They earn way too much for actual days worded. My wife is a teacher and while her wages are obviously beneficial to us as a household I think in general they should be given a serious pay cut. Excellent pay, excellent holidays, excellent job security and they are going to strike over having to take a relatively minor and much needed cut...The level of ignorance they are displaying of their situation is astounding and I think the rest of society has had enough of them.

jimmmy

youngblood wrote: »

Are you sick of high paid teachers?

Yes, so are 99% of people

youngblood wrote: »

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is €50,000.

It was reported elsewhere as € 60,000 plus the perks.

asdasd

I notice that teachers are beginning to use the "cost per student" argument - youngblood has an example. This is because Irish schools do have larger class room sizes. Now let's not knock that argument entirely - more kids means more correction. That said one of the reasons we may have larger classrooms is the cost of teachers - pay them less and we get more teachers, and smaller classrooms.

One of the reasons why there is a disconnect between teachers and the rest of us is because teachers do not actually earn their most significant salary until later life. This means that the 20 and 30 year olds are struggling . They feel aggrieved. It would be better if teachers ended up on a smaller salary - say 45-50 ( rather than max at 60+) and that it came earlier in life - with the gross pay of the teacher over a lifetime being the same.

The problem is implementing that scheme would make the older teacher immediatley poorer - or cause us to pay more until the present generation retired.

Sesshoumaru

achtung4 wrote: »

Sour grapes, sour grapes, sour grapes. As a teacher reading this I can't help but ponder... I wonder how many of the people who have "contributed" to this discussion are people who at one time or another held aspirations to join the profession. Teaching is a noble profession. As i'm sure you are aware, the points for entering teaching courses are particularly high. Teachers have worked hard to get to where they are today. This was a chance open to everybody. JUst because we are fortunate enough to be in the position we are today, there is no need tbe resentful. As I type this it is 11:30. I finished work today at 2:30. Many might perceive that this is only half a days work. I can assure you that a full days work was completed before the bell went. So god bless you begrudgers, hope you get over your feelings of inadequacy and resentment sometime and find peace with your own professions. Say a prayer for us poor teachers, the pension levy has hit us hard

I'd perceive it as a quarter days work, you are after all online reading and responding to comments on Boards.ie

Sleepy

asdasd, as shown by links to the teaching unions websites earlier in this thread that a teacher with a 2:2 in their primary degree and a similar result in their post-grad will start on over €40,000 per annum plus pension. Assuming a 3 year arts degree and 1 year h. dip that's a salary of over 40k for a 22 year old who works about 2/3rds of the year...

Virtually everybody earns their most significant salary at the end of their career, teachers just start higher than most.

Alcatel

I say we tempt teachers in Holland and Germany and so forth, where they speak excellent English and often a third language like French, offer them less pay than our teachers our getting but still a whole bunch more than they get for less days, and fire our lot.

jimmmy

Alcatel wrote: »

I say we tempt teachers in Holland and Germany and so forth, where they speak excellent English and often a third language like French, offer them less pay than our teachers our getting but still a whole bunch more than they get for less days, and fire our lot.

Or even just swop them for a year ? A teacher from the continent I know says he would love to work in Ireland, as the pay here is nearly double, and the hours here are less, and there are much more holidays here, but he does not have the Irish language.

Sleepy

jimmmy wrote: »

Or even just swop them for a year ? A teacher from the continent I know says he would love to work in Ireland, as the pay here is nearly double, and the hours here are less, and there are much more holidays here, but he does not have the Irish language.

Another good reason to remove the forcing of a dead language onto the curriculum there jimmmy.

bobbyjoe

Alcatel wrote: »

I say we tempt teachers in Holland and Germany and so forth, where they speak excellent English and often a third language like French, offer them less pay than our teachers our getting but still a whole bunch more than they get for less days, and fire our lot.

Think they would come here with our cost of living?

Sleepy

Why not bobbyjoe - twice the salary, more holidays and the cost of living in Ireland, whilst high, is certainly not twice that of Holland or Germany. Even if it was, I can think of few developed countries which wouldn't be tempting to move to for more holidays and a wage that would ensure any savings brought home would be double what they would have been had I stayed in my own country...

Alcatel

bobbyjoe wrote: »

Think they would come here with our cost of living?

It's not that bad, given that you're paid more for less days - also, check out the really insightful figures that were explored earlier in the thread. Even a German teacher with two children - and the German state does a lot for people with kids - is taking home less than the average Irish teacher with no kids.

We're not living in San Tropez...

bobbyjoe

Alcatel wrote: »

It's not that bad, given that you're paid more for less days - also, check out the really insightful figures that were explored earlier in the thread. Even a German teacher with two children - and the German state does a lot for people with kids - is taking home less than the average Irish teacher with no kids.

We're not living in San Tropez...

I suppose it could work if you consider teaching to be on a par with seasonal farm work. How about get loads of Chinese people in they have good English and could live in bunkbeds in the bike sheds for a tenner a week.

jimmmy

Are racist little comments ( "jokes" ) like that representative of our teaching profession bobbyjoe ?

bobbyjoe

jimmmy wrote: »

Are racist little comments ( "jokes" ) like that representative of our teaching profession bobbyjoe ?

Doubt it I don't represent the teaching profession. Whats racist about it anyway?

Sleepy

bobbyjoe wrote: »

I suppose it could work if you consider teaching to be on a par with seasonal farm work. How about get loads of Chinese people in they have good English and could live in bunkbeds in the bike sheds for a tenner a week.

Wow, I hope you're not a teacher with an attitude like that...

Can you honestly say that Irish students couldn't benefit from having a native French, German or Spanish teacher? Or that being exposed to educators from different cultural backgrounds mightn't help remove some of stigmas to 'foridners' the Irish have fostered in previous generations? Or even that it wouldn't be of any possible benefit to our students to have some teachers who have different (not necessarily better or worse) training and life experiences?

bobbyjoe

Sleepy wrote: »

Wow, I hope you're not a teacher with an attitude like that...

Can you honestly say that Irish students couldn't benefit from having a native French, German or Spanish teacher? Or that being exposed to educators from different cultural backgrounds mightn't help remove some of stigmas to 'foridners' the Irish have fostered in previous generations? Or even that it wouldn't be of any possible benefit to our students to have some teachers who have different (not necessarily better or worse) training and life experiences?

Don't think that was the point being made. He said fire our lot and bring in cheaper ones.

asdasd

Don't think that was the point being made. He said fire our lot and bring in cheaper ones.

We should do that with everybody. Private and public sector. Fire the whole lot and replace with cheaper foreigners. Any opposition to this is racist.

Alcatel

bobbyjoe wrote: »

Don't think that was the point being made. He said fire our lot and bring in cheaper ones.

Yes, and a good way to debunk a good idea is to send it to an unreasonable extreme, so well done that.

No, I'm not proposing we import people we can keep in tents outside the school. But a German teacher, or a Dutch one, is just as qualified - also, coming with the perspective of another culture is good for education; not to mention the proven ability to learn and teach a second language to primary and secondary school kids (when we can hardly manage Irish... A Dutch or German kid can speak better English by the time they reach secondary than many Irish kids can speak Irish by the end of it).

So why not?

asdasd

Very hard to get a teaching job in Germany, if not German.

Word on the street.

bobbyjoe

Alcatel wrote: »

Yes, and a good way to debunk a good idea is to send it to an unreasonable extreme, so well done that.

No, I'm not proposing we import people we can keep in tents outside the school. But a German teacher, or a Dutch one, is just as qualified - also, coming with the perspective of another culture is good for education; not to mention the proven ability to learn and teach a second language to primary and secondary school kids (when we can hardly manage Irish... A Dutch or German kid can speak better English by the time they reach secondary than many Irish kids can speak Irish by the end of it).

So why not?

Don't see any reason why not. Nothing stopping it from happening now except the pay thing. They might not be so happy working for less than their colleagues.