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Are the teachers living in the real world?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    ntlbell wrote: »
    you do understand that the avg ind wage includes the vast majority from the bottom to the top right?

    The figures most frequently cited do not include management or senior grades.

    In any event, it is still the same issue: what constitutes a valid comparator.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    gurramok wrote: »
    You cannot seem to grasp that teachers are NOT poor when they are on an average of 60k a year.

    On what basis do you make that claim? I have made no suggestion that teachers are poor.

    If we are to have reasonable discussions here, then regard for truth is important.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    On what basis do you make that claim? I have made no suggestion that teachers are poor.

    If we are to have reasonable discussions here, then regard for truth is important.

    You clearly beleive they should be paid more than the average industrial wage but do not state by how much.
    In what way is it reasonable to compare teachers' pay to average industrial wage? The levels of qualification required and the type of work involved are completely different.

    Get off the fence and state what you think a fair salary would be for a teacher, is 60k a fair salary?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 TheKat


    We can no longer afford a school bus!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    TheKat wrote: »
    Having just worked it out, with 4 years experience my take home pay is exactly half of what that average is......
    i always knew i wasnt average!
    your take home pay?

    Can we work off the same argument here.? If someone asked me my salary I would hardly tell them what I take home. Stop putting yourself in front of the schoolbus if you dont want to get knocked down:confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33 TheKat


    I've never said the pay wasn't decent but that average just seems so out of whack.

    And anyway I enjoy living dangerously! Actually maybe not...
    Circus here i come


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    TheKat wrote: »
    I've never said the pay wasn't decent but that average just seems so out of whack.


    well that is what is it. Glad I could help you. Just wish I threw in that HDip app form now instead of drinking the money that was in the envelop with the form.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 TheKat


    dodgyme wrote: »
    well that is what is it. Glad I could help you. Just wish I threw in that HDip app form now instead of drinking the money that was in the envelop with the form.:D

    lol
    you'd be a great teacher! sure you've started already!
    I bet it'll fall next year cos all the older teachers and principals will retire, pension prob worth about as much as their wage with all these deductions! 14 or 15% going on pension! the ban on promotions will mean there'll be no more assistant principals once one retires so they'll save more cos they wont have to pay their allowances.
    alright im outta here, nice talking to you....


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    gurramok wrote: »
    You cannot seem to grasp that teachers are NOT poor when they are on an average of 60k a year.

    Putting the poor mouth on for them is a con job considering the vast majority do not even earn near 60k.
    dodgyme wrote: »
    its not a mythical salary - its average according to the figure today-> sure even the wind bag who had it all and rang brian lenaham and pat kenny said she was on 63k and was ok til she remortgaged her house??? to buy a place in croatia???
    Where exactly did the 60K average come from? I don't recall a link in this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    kbannon wrote: »
    Where exactly did the 60K average come from? I don't recall a link in this thread.

    the indo today said av for male teacher was 64k and female 56k. Now granted probably a few more females then male possibly but one can take the av then being in around 60k for the sake of argument


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    kbannon wrote: »
    Where exactly did the 60K average come from? I don't recall a link in this thread.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/teachers.html

    Enjoy :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    gurramok wrote: »
    You clearly beleive they should be paid more than the average industrial wage but do not state by how much.

    I have said no such thing. What I have said is that the average industrial wage is not an appropriate comparator because the level of qualification and the nature of the work are quite different.

    Your approach to discussion is dishonest: you are not entitled to ascribe to people views that they did not express.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    I have said no such thing. What I have said is that the average industrial wage is not an appropriate comparator because the level of qualification and the nature of the work are quite different.

    Your approach to discussion is dishonest: you are not entitled to ascribe to people views that they did not express.

    Then what is a fair wage then?

    I've clearly stated that 60k+ is bloody too much. Come on, state it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    gurramok wrote: »
    Then what is a fair wage then?

    I've clearly stated that 60k+ is bloody too much. Come on, state it.

    No, I won't. My purpose in joining this discussion is to counter some of the unreasonable things that are being said, not to dictate what other people should be paid for their work.

    You haven't dealt with my challenge -- you know, the one about honesty in argument.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    What unreasonable things? The comparitor thing?

    How about comparing them to other countries and just pay on what we can afford to?

    You will not state a fair salary because you know they are overpaid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,536 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    ffs. the giving out about teachers!!! why don't ye all go off, go back to college and train to become teachers if you think it is so handy???

    Such a great job
    such great pay
    great holidays
    brilliant pension

    maybe because

    1 - you have to be fairly intelligent to be a teacher -especially a primary teacher
    2 - you need certain skills to work with people and kids
    3 - you need a commitment to the job outside of just the time in the classroom

    ps, i am not a teacher. have thought about it though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    ffs. the giving out about teachers!!! why don't ye all go off, go back to college and train to become teachers if you think it is so handy???

    Such a great job
    such great pay
    great holidays
    brilliant pension

    maybe because

    1 - you have to be fairly intelligent to be a teacher -especially a primary teacher
    2 - you need certain skills to work with people and kids
    3 - you need a commitment to the job outside of just the time in the classroom

    ps, i am not a teacher. have thought about it though!

    here we go rolling out the same arguments. again and again.

    No one thinks it's handy.

    the pay is above average compared to the amount of time spent actually working.

    4 months holidays would be great, but then I'd have to deal with them peski kids :mad: I think teachers thought they were going to be teaching fluffy rabbits post leaving cert

    the pension is excellent.

    1. You have to be fairly intelligent to do a lot of jobs, not exclusive to teaching.

    2. yes you probably do need special skills I suppose these can be learned or was every teacher born with these natural skills?

    3. A lot of jobs require commitment outside of work, not exclusive to teaching.

    4. WHATS YOUR POINT?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    ffs. the giving out about teachers!!! why don't ye all go off, go back to college and train to become teachers if you think it is so handy???

    Such a great job
    such great pay
    great holidays
    brilliant pension

    maybe because

    1 - you have to be fairly intelligent to be a teacher -especially a primary teacher
    2 - you need certain skills to work with people and kids
    3 - you need a commitment to the job outside of just the time in the classroom

    ps, i am not a teacher. have thought about it though!

    And they're well paid for it. They don't deserve any more. That's all we're saying.

    I might well become a teacher when I finish my degree


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    gurramok wrote: »
    What unreasonable things? The comparitor thing?

    Yes.
    How about comparing them to other countries and just pay on what we can afford to?

    You could start with international comparisons (taking account of general pay levels in those other countries and the different levels of professional demand on teachers -- in some respects perhaps greater, in other respects perhaps less). In other words, make an informed rather than a simplistic judgement.
    You will not state a fair salary because you know they are overpaid.

    You have just answered my challenge on honesty in argument: you are determined to be dishonest in dealing with me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    You have just answered my challenge on honesty in argument: you are determined to be dishonest in dealing with me.

    No i'm not. You will not state your position on what their average salary of 60k is to you.
    I've asked you numerous times and you have no opinion on it hence you have no problem with it and that speaks volumes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    gurramok wrote: »
    No i'm not. You will not state your position on what their average salary of 60k is to you.
    I've asked you numerous times and you have no opinion on it hence you have no problem with it and that speaks volumes.

    You have no right to ascribe views to me when you do not know what my views are. To do so is dishonest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭helpmeplease


    gurramok wrote: »
    No i'm not. You will not state your position on what their average salary of 60k is to you.
    I've asked you numerous times and you have no opinion on it hence you have no problem with it and that speaks volumes.

    what is your position on a teachers salary? You have just said what is too much. But how much is enough? Where would you put the limit? 40k, 50k, 25k?

    Maybe you have said it elsewhere, I haven't read the whole thread.

    I think 60k is appropriate for a teacher that is around 50 years old with approx 30 years service given. Obviously cuts are justified in the current situation. IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    what is your position on a teachers salary? You have just said what is too much. But how much is enough? Where would you put the limit? 40k, 50k, 25k?

    Maybe you have said it elsewhere, I haven't read the whole thread.

    I think 60k is appropriate for a teacher that is around 50 years old with approx 30 years service given. Obviously cuts are justified in the current situation. IMO.

    50k if the economic conditions are right with the above criteria.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,536 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    gurramok wrote: »
    No i'm not. You will not state your position on what their average salary of 60k is to you.
    I've asked you numerous times and you have no opinion on it hence you have no problem with it and that speaks volumes.

    teacher's average salary is 60k??? where did you get that figure?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    teacher's average salary is 60k??? where did you get that figure?

    Oh my god, its been plastered all over the news.

    Here http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/teachers.html

    Its 64k for males.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    gurramok wrote: »
    Oh my god, its been plastered all over the news.

    Here http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/teachers.html

    Its 64k for males.

    You have to wonder about people who come into these threads in the politics forum that don't as much as read a news paper,watch the news or listen to the radio

    it's frightening


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    ffs. the giving out about teachers!!! why don't ye all go off, go back to college and train to become teachers if you think it is so handy???

    Such a great job
    such great pay
    great holidays
    brilliant pension

    maybe because

    1 - you have to be fairly intelligent to be a teacher -especially a primary teacher
    2 - you need certain skills to work with people and kids
    3 - you need a commitment to the job outside of just the time in the classroom

    ps, i am not a teacher. have thought about it though!

    1. Yeah face painting is pretty tough.
    2. That's true and a lot of teachers fail miserably
    3. Also true but they start at 9 and finish at what 3 / 3:30, so they stay back and hour and do a 9-5 like the rest of us and spend their summers recovering.

    ps. Do not be conned by their "we are doing it for the kids BS"

    They are a bunch of commy ****s.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    1 - you have to be fairly intelligent to be a teacher -especially a primary teacher

    No you don't, I know a couple of absolute retards who are teachers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    I went to college with a guy who is now temping as a Maths teacher. No teaching qualification and he is awful at Math - he would admit this himself.

    Oh yeah he is also taking home close to 1k a week :confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭cobweb


    T-K-O wrote: »
    1. Yeah face painting is pretty tough.
    2. That's true and a lot of teachers fail miserably
    3. Also true but they start at 9 and finish at what 3 / 3:30, so they stay back and hour and do a 9-5 like the rest of us and spend their summers recovering.

    ps. Do not be conned by their "we are doing it for the kids BS"

    They are a bunch of commy ****s.

    1. We dont just face paint but sure its hard to fight ignorance which is what I see here and easy to go for a facile comment such as the face painting effort.
    2. Lots of jobs have people who are terrible not just the teaching profession but to compensate there are a lot of great teachers out there.
    3. I am on holidays at the moment and have spent my holidays preparing for my final term and myself and a lot of teachers spend longer then 9-5 correcting and preparing work and the classroom for the next day.
    4. I have also spent in excess of 1000€ of my own money this year so far ensuring that my class have the items they need for class to get a rounded education as funds arent there to get the stuff they need but then perhaps I am one of those teachers no one cares to mention who do a bl**dy good job

    I have read a lot of the posts here and find them ignorant of the reality of teaching as someone who worked in a different area and retrained as a teacher it is an eye opener and before slagging off the profession try it.


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