2009 China GP General Discussion with loads of spoilers!

amacachi

Don't think I'll bother with any predictions until tomorrow. :P

Hopefully with the race a bit earlier than Malaysia there won't be such heavy rain likely.

Sabre0001

The afternoon is D-Day for the diffusers argument. If they are deemed illegal it's going to upset the weekend; what do the teams with them do?!

amacachi

Sabre0001 wrote: »

The afternoon is D-Day for the diffusers argument. If they are deemed illegal it's going to upset the weekend; what do the teams with them do?!

Take em off? :P

Either way everything should be even closer than the first two races, either the three teams take their diffusers off or the other seven attach some.

Sabre0001

Oh it's that straightforward (this rule has really caught me out - just look at my Prediction comp stats! ). I had heard (on BBC) that if deemed legal, other teams would have to develop it...and it could mean designing a new gearbox - thought it might be that complicated to remove it too!

amacachi

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Oh it's that straightforward (this rule has really caught me out - just look at my Prediction comp stats! ). I had heard (on BBC) that if deemed legal, other teams would have to develop it...and it could mean designing a new gearbox - thought it might be that complicated to remove it too!

Well it's not just a matter of sticking a new diffuser on, but Team India's boss admitted at the Aussie GP during practice on BBC that they had already started working on a similar solution, so if Team India were doing so and planned to have it ready for this weekend if needed, I'm sure the other, better funded teams were doing the same.

vectra

Not as simple as a bolt on job.
Ferrari have said it will be basically a whole new chassis.. Could take a couple of months to perfect

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

Not as simple as a bolt on job.
Ferrari have said it will be basically a whole new chassis.. Could take a couple of months to perfect

Different for different teams perhaps.

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

Not as simple as a bolt on job.
Ferrari have said it will be basically a whole new chassis.. Could take a couple of months to perfect

Mini competition which of the non diffuser teams will have one installed at a race first?
I'm going to say McLaren they are already struggling with downforce.

enzo7

ill go with ferrari (i hope!!!!)

amacachi

Red Bull looking good. 11/1 Vettel for the win in China, get on it before his price tumbles over the weekend.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Mini competition which of the non diffuser teams will have one installed at a race first?
I'm going to say McLaren they are already struggling with downforce.

Renault will be first to have one :cool:

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

Renault will be first to have one :cool:

Renault & McLaren change diffuser
Looks like Renault and McLaren will be running new diffusers in china.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Renault & McLaren change diffuser
Looks like Renault and McLaren will be running new diffusers in china.

Haha
SNAP.!!

Slutmonkey57b

Two-time world champion Alonso was this week quoted as saying: "We have done what the FIA wanted us to do and because of that are being beaten by teams that did what the FIA didn't want."

A statement from the Japanese team said: "Our team studied the wording of the new 2009 regulations in precise detail to ensure we interpreted them correctly.

"We also made full use of the consultation procedure with the FIA which was a helpful process to ensure our interpretation of the technical regulations was correct.

tells you all you need to know about the diffuser row.
They're legal, they were always legal, they were submitted to the FIA and they were approved before the cars ever touched a circuit.

Alonso didn't seem to have too many problems with Renault's interpretation of rules like "don't steal data from competing teams for 2 years running".

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

tells you all you need to know about the diffuser row.
They're legal, they were always legal, they were submitted to the FIA and they were approved before the cars ever touched a circuit.

Alonso didn't seem to have too many problems with Renault's interpretation of rules like "don't steal data from competing teams for 2 years running".

I find it amusing that several PROFFESIONAL members of formula one including the Infamous Adrian Newey whom I may point out would be laughing at your comment regarding it "was always legal" What do you know that they dont??

Helmut Marko's words =

"What angers us is the fact that we had approached Whiting (Charlie Whiting, FIA delegate and race director) for a clarification on a diffuser solution like the one in question and we were told it was illegal, therefore we did not pursue it any further though our design team had similar ideas (pre-season)," Marko continued.

"I wonder what impact this will have on cornering speeds - I assume there will be problems soon when cars are going too fast, and the airflow the double diffuser creates will make overtaking more difficult again, for sure, thus it is against the spirit of the rules agreed in the working groups."

TAKEN FROM THIS ARTICLE

IM0

amacachi wrote: »

Red Bull looking good. 11/1 Vettel for the win in China, get on it before his price tumbles over the weekend.

Unless your going for a hefty E/W I wouldnt bother, the Brawns will be down the road again...or at least Jenson will , poor Rubens 'always' the bridesmaid :rolleyes:

amacachi

me@ucd wrote: »

Unless your going for a hefty E/W I wouldnt bother, the Brawns will be down the road again...or at least Jenson will , poor Rubens 'always' the bridesmaid :rolleyes:

If you say so.

Anyone else staying up for the practice? Just watching the BBC's classic Chinese Grands Prix at the moment, hopefully they'll be showing the 2007 one soon, haven't seen that joyful moment when someone drove into the gravel trap in months :P

IM0

yep I will, but when you say "staying up" you mean to watch it right?
if so where or should \I say what service?

Ive looked through the guide for BBC and Setanta, and only PRA 2 is on at 7am

Grim.

amacachi wrote: »

Anyone else staying up for the practice?

yeah going to stay up and watch fp1

IM0

Grim. wrote: »

yeah going to stay up and watch fp1

wheres it on then? nothin in the guide for BBC1

amacachi

Red button on BBC at 3 o'clock.

Seeing Hamilton in the gravel there, priceless. :P

IM0

doh! still on cable
guess the live timing will have to do...again..:D

amacachi

me@ucd wrote: »

doh! still on cable
guess the live timing will have to do...again..:D

Sorry, assumed when ya mentioned Setanta you'd have Sky.

Anyone know what the weather's meant to be like at the moment?

IM0

just winding up the carrier pigeon hang on a sec....

IM0

Should be bright and sunny for PRA, Drizzle Quali and LOTS of Rain for the race

have you checked out the live timing feed then? (gives all circuit info for all cars, sec times, lap times, laps, in-out pits, its great!)

amacachi

Hmmm, that's what google suggests, though the track is outside the city so it's not completely accurate.

I can't believe the BBC would show News 24 on the main channel rather than the Practice, I'm sure they're paying a flat rate for the rights.

IM0

no its all the sign zone rubbish on :mad:

amacachi

Wish I had a right to properly complain about the BBC. :P

They're criticising Kimi for being out of the car so early after the last race. Think it's BS myself, it was fairly obvious the race wasn't going to restart and if it did under the safety car it wasn't like he was going to make any gains.

Just can't understand why the teams don't make more use of the practice sessions.

amacachi

Also, the Super-Soft and Medium tyres have been brought to this race. So either a very short stint during a 2-stop strategy or else a 3-stopper for the race. Can see traffic and luck with track position playing a big role on Sunday.

IM0

amacachi wrote: »

Wish I had a right to properly complain about the BBC. :P

Just can't understand why the teams don't make more use of the practice sessions.

Saving tyres...

Wow Macca back on top...very promising practice for them...looks like their new diffuser is doing the 'trick'

amacachi

Save tyres yes, but with no testing during the season this is the only time they have to try new things.


Fairly uneventful session tbh, none of the drivers seemed to be going full tilt other than the Force Indias from what I could see.

IM0

Due think Macca really have bounced back that quick? I mean when they were bad it was reflected in their pra pace, but now they're right up there! or do you reckon they are trying something different like 3 stops running.

and round 2 or bed time

amacachi

me@ucd wrote: »

Due think Macca really have bounced back that quick? I mean when they were bad it was reflected in their pra pace, but now they're right up there! or do you reckon they are trying something different like 3 stops running.

and round 2 or bed time

I went to bed after the first practice and judging from the times in second practice McLaren must've been running lighter than the rest in first practice it seems.

I'm wondering when the teams will use the supersoft tyres in the race, obviously no-one wants to pit after 5/6 laps but if they do it later and there's a safety car they'll be screwed.

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

I went to bed after the first practice and judging from the times in second practice McLaren must've been running lighter than the rest in first practice it seems.

I'm wondering when the teams will use the supersoft tyres in the race, obviously no-one wants to pit after 5/6 laps but if they do it later and there's a safety car they'll be screwed.

I think they feel that the supersoft are holding up better than OZ.
so maybe 8-10 laps wouldnt be so bad for someone running light to get to the front and get the SS tyres out of the way early hoping for a safety car

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

I think they feel that the supersoft are holding up better than OZ.
so maybe 8-10 laps wouldnt be so bad for someone running light to get to the front and get the SS tyres out of the way early hoping for a safety car

When was that said? Last I heard was they expect them to last 5-6 laps.

lilywhites1982

I couldn't believe it when I recently read the Jenson Button is 11/10 to win this year's F1 title. There's only been bloody three races and now he's already tight favourite. I don understant that the Brawn GP car is flying but is this not a bit short! Button to win this one anway.. Three in a row

amacachi

lilywhites1982 wrote: »

I couldn't believe it when I recently read the Jenson Button is 11/10 to win this year's F1 title. There's only been bloody three races and now he's already tight favourite. I don understant that the Brawn GP car is flying but is this not a bit short! Button to win this one anway.. Three in a row

Very short price, but tbh there's no-one else really standing out from the field. Only for bad luck in Australia and the penalty because of it Vettel would be up with Barrichello at the moment.

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

Moved arguement to the Diffuser thread

see response there

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

When was that said? Last I heard was they expect them to last 5-6 laps.

I read it was 6 - 7 laps

F1's tyre supplier confident speed drop-off of the super-soft tyres won't be as big as in Oz.

Quote from Kimi

"The balance of the car isn't bad and you can't feel the lack of KERS," Räikkönen said. "The point is that we are too slow compared to the teams currently at the top. We must try and improve the car; at the moment, we are not able to fight for the title. We must not give up the fight because, with the whole team working hard, we can get back into a winning position. It's not an easy time, but our group is strong and we know what needs to be done to get out of this situation - the softer tyre (Super Soft) seems to work better than it did in Australia."

I can only assume he means they hold up better which in turn I would expect them to last a lap or two as a result.

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

Fair enough, really didn't seem like that in FP.

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

Fair enough, really didn't seem like that in FP.

True
But
we wont know until the red lights

EvilMonkey

I'm not sure I'm a fan of these new tyre rules, i mean i want closer racing but i dont wont it artificially introduced by bridgestone purposely picking a bad tyre for the race. Just so there can be a big discussion(advertisement) of bridgestone tyres over the weekend.

I think the super soft tyres is the real reason Ferrari are running without kers, they want the car extra ballast spread out to reduce tyreware so they can go longer on the softer tyre.

dsmythy

Looking at the weather forecasts it looks like a dry qualificiation and probably dry race too though not sure yet. Rain will be approaching Shanghai on Sunday. Whether it arrives on time to affect the race is anyone's guess. Maybe some light rain towards the end of the race.

amacachi

I thought tyre warmers were banned this season yet I keep seeing them.

Probably just covers.

amacachi

Why the **** didn't I put somethin on Vettel to win the race!? :P

Looking forward to seeing the fuel loads later to see how genuine everything is. Vettel being a quarter of a second or so ahead of Webber looks a bit dodgy.

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

Why the **** didn't I put somethin on Vettel to win the race!? :P

Because he wont win
Guaranteed he is running light as is Webber
It will be a white/yellow car to win again Id say

vectra

As a rule of thumb, 10kg of fuel lasts four to five laps while 10kg of fuel slows the car by roughly 0.3s a lap – depending on the circuit type and length.


1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 644kg
2. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 637
3. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 646.5
4. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 661
5. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 659
6. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 664.5
7. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 650.5
8. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 673.5
9. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 679
10. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 673
11. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 679
12. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 697
13. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 690
14. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 682.7
15. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso, 690
16. Nelson Piquet, Renault, 697.9
17. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 659
18. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 648
19. Timo Glock, Toyota, 652
20. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India, 679.5

Desmondo2000

Great job today by Fernando who I think is the best driver in F1 hopefully a big fat W tomorrow.

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

Because he wont win
Guaranteed he is running light as is Webber
It will be a white/yellow car to win again Id say

If Rosberg gets one of his insanely good starts again then that will have the Brawns back to 5th and 6th, tough to win a GP from there.

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

If Rosberg gets one of his insanely good starts again then that will have the Brawns back to 5th and 6th, tough to win a GP from there.

True
but
I dont think I would bet on it.:o

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

True
but
I dont think I would bet on it.:o

If you were offered evens on Button, 2/1 on Barrichello and 11/1 Vettel and you were forced to put a euro on one of them which would you do? :P