Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

gurramok

tallaght01 wrote: »

Yea, and the dept of health says junior docs earn 100k. Why would you believe the govt when they're up against a professional body?

Are they lying?

tallaght01 wrote: »

You're using the fact that people are on the dole to argue that teachers shouldn't strike, so it's fair enough to point out that it's an unreasonable point to make.

I'm pointing out that taking home 60k is hell of alot better than taking home 10k. Teachers are a very lucky bunch to be overpaid.

tallaght01 wrote: »

Though not quite as unreasonable as arguing that they should strike on the summer :P

Yeh, lets not interfere with those nixers they get.

tallaght01

gurramok wrote: »

Are they lying?



I'm pointing out that taking home 60k is hell of alot better than taking home 10k. Teachers are a very lucky bunch to be overpaid.

You bet your hairy ass they're lying!

Almost every other workers get paid more than people on the dole. I just don't see your point.

I also don't know what kind of nixers primary school teachers do all summer.

bobbbb

gurramok wrote: »

What BS?

Before you went for your pint last night, you failed to notice that the Dept of Education say that the average teacher pulls in €60kpa hence my gripe that they should NOT strike over pay.

I provided you with a link to work out exactly how a teacher ends up on €60K
You refused to even look at at it for yourself.

So look at it and enlighten yourself, instead of talking crap.

gurramok

tallaght01 wrote: »

You bet your hairy ass they're lying!

Almost every other workers get paid more than people on the dole. I just don't see your point.

I also don't know what kind of nixers primary school teachers do all summer.

So you do not trust a reputable source then, what a way to debunk your argument.

Alot of people on the dole are scraping by as well as everyone else and yet teachers moan about a tiny drop in their superpay of 60kpa, thats the point.

If they are not doing nixers, they are sitting on their hairy arses then

gurramok

bobbbb wrote: »

I provided you with a link to work out exactly how a teacher ends up on €60K
You refused to even look at at it for yourself.

So look at it and enlighten yourself, instead of talking crap.

Excellent, you agree they take home pay of 60kpa, progress at last.

bobbbb

axer wrote: »

My understanding is that primary school class starts at 9:20. I know many teachers would go into the school at about 9:00 with the lazy ones showing up at about 9:15-9:20.
(My sister is a primary school teacher BTW).

But they also get about 15mins at about 11am too and 5-10 mins at 2pm. Under law you are entitled to 15mins for every 4 hours you work. So on the days they are not supervising in the yard (which is most days) they get nearly 1 hour in breaks for a 6 hour day. That is pretty good and makes up for when they get the minimum amount on the days of supervising.

Nearly everytime I have been in the local national school 99% of the teachers are gone by 3:10. Some stay as late as 3:30 sometimes just to go on the internet. On fridays nobody stays behind - they are all out the door by 3:05.

Teachers involved in after school activities are often paid extra by being assigned "posts". Those posts pay a few thousand extra per year.

So we are talking about an 8 hour day maximum. Many teachers after their first few years spend very little on these plans. They might stay in school an extra 30 minutes to do this.

I do 7.5 hours a day (8.5 hour long day including my 1 hour break). Many people do 8 - its not a big deal. Plus on average they do about 7 hours a day plus they have the summer holidays.

She can submit those materials as expenses and get the money back.

It is very rare to see a primary school teacher in the school over the summer holidays. Maybe some of the older teachers come in the odd time but the younger teachers are usually gone abroad.

Generally the teachers might come in a couple of days before the start of the new year to make sure everything is ok in the classroom and they will spend a few hours at home preparing for stuff. Again., it is the new teachers that spend the most time preparing but that is just because they are not experienced.

There are extra paid posts for most of this. The communion doesn't really take much of a weekend and many people in jobs have to work the odd weekend for whatever reason.

Often many teachers have SNAs which they use to supervise children when they are doing things and use them when going on trips too.

I wouldnt ' like the job but then again most of the teachers wouldnt like my job either (IT). Saying it is a harder job is subjective - it might be to you but maybe not to them. They get paid a lot more than me too.

They say there is less money so what do they do - cut down on their work instead of realising that since there is less money then they should help out more to get through it.

Anything that is possibly hard about their job is made up for with extended summer holidays. I certainly would rather be teacher in a primary school than a cop in a dodgy area and from what I know the teacher earns more starting out (not even including the other perks).

Cop the f'uck on teachers and get down to doing your jobs. There is less money now - nothing that can be done about that so instead of working to rule how about giving an extra hand to help this country get through the recession. Everyone in the private and public sector has to bare the brunt together.

Nothing you have said here is correct. You made it all up didnt you?

tallaght01

gurramok wrote: »

So you do not trust a reputable source then, what a way to debunk your argument.

Alot of people on the dole are scraping by as well as everyone else and yet teachers moan about a tiny drop in their superpay of 60kpa, thats the point.

If they are not doing nixers, they are sitting on their hairy arses then

With your disjointed logic, I'm pretty much just waiting for you to suggest people one the dole should strike over their poor pay

T-K-O

My best friend is a teacher and I know for a fact he gets well paid (extra) for working with the union.

bobbbb

gurramok wrote: »

Excellent, you agree they take home pay of 60kpa, progress at last.

Jesus, whats the point. You're like a broken record

gurramok

tallaght01 wrote: »

With your disjointed logic, I'm pretty much just waiting for you to suggest people one the dole should strike over their poor pay

Huh?

Its about people trying to survive on what money they have.

60kpa is hell of alot of a wage to survive on, in fact, its in the top 33% if not 25% of earners in the country.

A tiny percentage drop of that in taxes is nothing compared to someone on 30k or 10k as they will still have an above average lifestyle.

If you cannot see that, well, where is your logic?:p

cobweb

After how many years do they have take home pay of 60000?

gurramok

bobbbb wrote: »

Jesus, whats the point. You're like a broken record

You do not seem to cop on to it. Do you understand the difference between 'total income' and salary?

tallaght01

bobbbb wrote: »

Jesus, whats the point. You're like a broken record

LOL I was wondering the same thing.

Just for the record, I'm of the belief that, even if your average teacher was earning 60k, then they should be allowed strike.

Is anyone arguing differently? Just so we can put this point to bed.

tallaght01

gurramok wrote: »

Huh?

Its about people trying to survive on what money they have.

60kpa is hell of alot of a wage to survive on, in fact, its in the top 33% if not 25% of earners in the country.

A tiny percentage drop of that in taxes is nothing compared to someone on 30k or 10k as they will still have an above average lifestyle.

If you cannot see that, well, where is your logic?:p

It's very noble of you to point out that people on the dole don't get enough money.

But I have no idea what it has to do with the price of cabbages!

T-K-O

tallaght01 wrote: »

LOL I was wondering the same thing.

Just for the record, I'm of the belief that, even if your average teacher was earning 60k, then they should be allowed strike.

Is anyone arguing differently? Just so we can put this point to bed.

They should no be going on strike full stop - no matter what their pay or conditions they would still complain.

tallaght01

T-K-O wrote: »

They should no be going on strike full stop - no matter what their pay or conditions they would still complain.

Yea, thanks for that. That draws a line under the whole issue then. Cheers.

gurramok

cobweb wrote: »

After how many years do they have take home pay of 60000?

See the post above yours. For the hard of reading, consult bobbbb's site where it is total income.

Now that's the salary plus generous allowances that makes up that 60k, capiche?

tallaght01 wrote: »

Just for the record, I'm of the belief that, even if your average teacher was earning 60k, then they should be allowed strike.

Is anyone arguing differently? Just so we can put this point to bed.

It's very noble of you to point out that people on the dole don't get enough money.

But I have no idea what it has to do with the price of cabbages!

Thats a very elitist attitude there. Try and survive on the dole, it only helps you feed yourself etc. In fact go down to the dole office and ask the people queueing for their opinions of living on the dole and while you're at it, ask them do they think people can survive on 60k?

You should know the answer before you go down.

tallaght01

gurramok wrote: »

Thats a very elitist attitude there. Try and survive on the dole, it only helps you feed yourself etc. In fact go down to the dole office and ask the people queueing for their opinions of living on the dole and while you're at it, ask them do they think people can survive on 60k?

You should know the answer before you go down.

Thanks for that. But i remember my dad being on the dole when I was a kid.

bobbbb

gurramok wrote: »

You do not seem to cop on to it. Do you understand the difference between 'total income' and salary?

You have got to be the worst troller on boards.

Dudess

gurramok wrote: »

Do you agree with the strike or not?

I have to say I disagree with all public sector industrial action in the current economic climate (I say that as a public sector worker). The ignorance when it comes to the teaching profession sickens me though.

omahaid wrote: »

Work doesnt end in the office for me, by a long shot, and if I don't keep myself up to date, at my own expense, then I lose out by not

1) Not getting payrises
2) Eventually getting the sack

What do you do? Seems like you get treated very badly.

ntlbell wrote: »

and for teachers I know work ends in the classroom.

That's not actually possible. A lot of the time, teachers have to do a few hours' work when they come home.

Jelly2 wrote: »

On lecturers going abroad for six weeks: lecturers do not just lecture in the university, they also research THROUGH the student holiday period. As a lecturer, I often work outside my university office, in libraries, archives and at home. How do you know lecturers (although not the teachers, as they do not usually research, write and publish) are not working when they are away from their office??

"Them bleedin' lecturers, they work 15 hours a week" - THAT must piss you off! I work in a university and the lecturers have to stay on until 7 or 8 every evening and come in at weekends and on their days off. They do slightly more than just stand in front of a bunch of students and talk.

themont85 wrote: »

How is it idiocy? Compare their rates to their counterparts accross the world(who don't get near the same holidays)

Well those counterparts are underpaid so. I don't think teachers are underpaid here but they're certainly not overpaid.

Their are plenty of people out their looking for teaching jobs who are qualified

The permanent jobs simply aren't there. All those qualified teachers are the result of masses and masses of arts graduates.

**** teachers complain about poor discipline,sorry that is the truth, i'm not denying their is misbehaviour but a good teacher can sort it out quick enough

Not necessarily. Even good teachers can be beaten down eventually.

We all had teachers in schools who couldn't control the class and those who could, their stress is self imposed due to them being incompentant at their job. Their stresses are minute in comparision to a nurse or doctors(other members of the public service take note this isn't anti PS).

You really don't know what you're talking about until you're in the position. The above is insulting to teachers - stress "self-imposed" etc. FFS.

bobbbb wrote: »

Begrudgery and ignorance methinks.

Not necessarily begrudgery (I find that word can get misused) but ignorance, definitely.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Well let's see where I'm getting my opinion from....any teacher I know certainly isn't on the breadline.....

Not being on the breadline is hardly the same as "dripping in wealth".

gurramok wrote: »

I'm pointing out that taking home 60k is hell of alot better than taking home 10k. Teachers are a very lucky bunch to be overpaid.

gurramok wrote: »

teachers moan about a tiny drop in their superpay of 60kpa

Is there a reason you keep stating teachers (implying ALL teachers) are paid 60K? Because it's not true.

tallaght01

Dudess wrote: »

I have to say I disagree with all public sector industrial action .

Why?

People have to have some recourse. As someone who is part of a profession who've been ass-raped by the government for donkeys years, I wish we had the balls to strike, or at least work to rule.

Taking away the right to strike is leaving people wide open to abuse.

cobweb

Dudess wrote: »

re gurramok



Is there a reason you keep stating teachers (implying ALL teachers) are paid 60K? Because it's not true.

This has been pointed out before but it is easier to ignore it as teachers who do earn that much are probably working for years and near top of scale but its easier to come out with any oul figure rather then stick with reality

gurramok

Dudess wrote: »

Is there a reason you keep stating teachers (implying ALL teachers) are paid 60K? Because it's not true.

Oh come on Dudess, are you another who has not read the thread?

Here for the umpteenth time to deniars and latecomers and for all those who think i'm talking crap http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/teachers.html

RTE/Dept of Education wrote:

According to the data, the average male teacher earns €64,000 per annum, while the average female earns €56,000.

The data was supplied to the primary teachers' union, the INTO, by the Department of Education.

cobweb wrote:

This has been pointed out before but it is easier to ignore it as teachers who do earn that much are probably working for years and near top of scale but its easier to come out with any oul figure rather then stick with reality

Did you not read my reply to you before spouting this?!

bobbbb wrote: »

You have got to be the worst troller on boards.

Do the facts hurt?

tallaght01 wrote: »

Thanks for that. But i remember my dad being on the dole when I was a kid.

Then you will know when money is tight, it can make a horrible life. Compare that to teachers moaning about a tiny drop in 60k.

FlutterinBantam

Good post and well pointed but....

56 b out
36 b in


==20b

dress it up, jerk it off, pump it up. pimp it's ride anyway anybody fookin wants...


Ends up in the same bin.


EVERYBODY has to contribute .

THE COUNTRY CANNOT AFFORD THE PUBLIC SECTOR AS CURRENT CONDITIONS STANDS.


When will reality set in I have to wonder.

Dudess

tallaght01 wrote: »

Why?

People have to have some recourse. As someone who is part of a profession who've been ass-raped by the government for donkeys years, I wish we had the balls to strike, or at least work to rule.

Taking away the right to strike is leaving people wide open to abuse.

Sorry, I should have added "in the current economic climate" to that sentence. Why? Because it's gonna make balls all difference - the dough ain't there.

In better economic conditions, definitely. It's not that I think people aren't entitled to their right to strike - of course they are - I just don't see the point at the moment.

cobweb

gurramok wrote: »

Did you not read my reply to you before spouting this?!

quote]

Read reply found it as informative as 60k comment and RTE dont get stuff wrong:rolleyes: As I know personally the average wage of teachers in my school is not 60K and there are 50+ teachers in my school, the majority would be on way less then this

As I asked previously after how many years are they on this or would that disrupt your argument?

Dudess

gurramok wrote: »

Oh come on Dudess, are you another who has not read the thread?

Here for the umpteenth time to deniars and latecomers and for all those who think i'm talking crap http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/teachers.html

Doesn't mean all teachers are earning that salary.

cobweb

Dudess wrote: »

Doesn't mean all teachers are earning that salary.

gurramok doesnt seem to grasp that concept despite being told a few times

FlutterinBantam

tallaght01 wrote: »

Why?

People have to have some recourse. As someone who is part of a profession who've been ass-raped by the government for donkeys years, I wish we had the balls to strike, or at least work to rule.

Taking away the right to strike is leaving people wide open to abuse.

Ass raped you say:eek::eek:.

Buddy you have a very slanted way on life I have to say.

You have been listening to far too much rhetoric from your colleagues who have been ass raping the taxpayer for donkeys years.

Black hole, thats what the HSE is, and sorry for going off topic ,but it's vested interests who think the taxpayer is a fookin uneducated jerk and who think they have the right to leech the lifeblood from the cash cow which annoys me.

HSE is an organisation made up of vested interests who for years have refused to admit that they are creaming it,and even have the temerity to put forward to the ordinary man in the street that they are hard done by.

Pull the other one buddy.

gurramok

cobweb wrote: »

Read reply found it as informative as 60k comment and RTE dont get stuff wrong:rolleyes: As I know personally the average wage of teachers in my school is not 60K and there are 50+ teachers in my school, the majority would be on way less then this

As I asked previously after how many years are they on this or would that disrupt your argument?

Dudess wrote: »

Doesn't mean all teachers are earning that salary.

To the both of you who do not seem to understand and one of you just didn't read a previous reply.

Its made up of salary and allowances.

cobweb wrote:

gurramok doesnt seem to grasp that concept despite being told a few times

Jesus Mary and Joseph cobweb. Did you even read the article?

They are quoting the Dept of Education figures.

cobweb

gurramok wrote: »

To the both of you who do not seem to understand and one of you just didn't read a previous reply.

Its made up of salary and allowances.



Jesus Mary and Joseph cobweb. Did you even read the article?

They are quoting the Dept of Education figures.

Just cobweb please I dont use full title unless I'm at a formal do

I understand its made up of salary and allowance my point is ds that not every teacher is entitled to those allowances and that the majority do not get 60K something you seem hung up on

and remember just cobweb in future

Dudess

I'm friends with a LOT of teachers - earning between 35 and 40K. They'll be delighted to learn they should actually be earning 55 to 60K. To whom should they apply for back payments?

brummytom

Don't know quite where RTE got their figures from,, many other websites seem to show teachers earn far less than E60k

http://www.educationworld.net/salaries_ie.html
http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Secondary_School_Teacher/Salary

gurramok

cobweb wrote: »

Just cobweb please I dont use full title unless I'm at a formal do

I understand its made up of salary and allowance my point is ds that not every teacher is entitled to those allowances and that the majority do not get 60K something you seem hung up on

and remember just cobweb in future

Its an average of 60k. Do you understand what an average means?

gurramok

brummytom wrote: »

Don't know quite where RTE got their figures from,, many other websites seem to show teachers earn far less than E60k

http://www.educationworld.net/salaries_ie.html
http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Secondary_School_Teacher/Salary

Salary and allowances. Have a read of previous posts in the last half hour actually so you can keep up

cobweb

gurramok wrote: »

Its an average of 60k. Do you understand what an average means?

Do you understand that just because I add a lot of figures together then get the mean/ average it doesnt tell the real story for people working. Just because the mean is 60k, does not indicate that you can generalise all teachers are going home with a 60k paypacket something a few people have tried to get you to understand

tallaght01

gurramok wrote: »

Its an average of 60k. Do you understand what an average means?

I'm glad you raised that point.

"The average salary" is different than "the average teacher".

Dudess

And it's as if the holidays are just given to teachers as this massive perk, like a Christmas bonus. The holidays revolve around the pupils - it's obviously not beneficial for them to spend the entire year in the classroom, or the entire day. Bringing it into line with private sector conditions would mean pupils in school all summer and until 5pm every day. Is that feasible?

brummytom

Sorry, i find it hard to "keep up" with drivel.

As you can see from my location, I am neither Irish nor do I live in Ireland so please feel free to ignore my posts. However, I do come from a family of teachers - my granny was a teacher (until laws introduced meant her Irish teaching qualification was no longer valid here), I have six aunties and uncles who are recently retired teachers, a great uncle who was teacher, a father who is currently a teacher off work with stress (believe me, it's not half a cushy job as people seem to think) and a mother and cousin who both left the profession due to the same reason.

I know this point has been made many a time in this thread (I can keep up with some things ) people don't seem to believe teaching takes up a lot more time than just 6 hours a day - marking, lesson plans, preparing classrooms all take up a great deal of time, and people who take such a job should be applauded, not ridiculed.

gurramok

cobweb wrote: »

Do you understand that just because I add a lot of figures together then get the mean/ average it doesnt tell the real story for people working. Just because the mean is 60k, does not indicate that you can generalise all teachers are going home with a 60k paypacket something a few people have tried to get you to understand

So you are using the mean now. Of course an average does not tell the whole story as some earn below and above it unfairly.

That part about understanding was the bit the likes of you and others could not see the word 'allowances'.

What is the mean then?

Dudess wrote:

And it's as if the holidays are just given to teachers as this massive perk, like a Christmas bonus. The holidays revolve around the pupils - it's obviously not beneficial for them to spend the entire year in the classroom, or the entire day.

Yeh, the nixers must be hard to do in the summer.

copacetic

cobweb wrote: »

Do you understand that just because I add a lot of figures together then get the mean/ average it doesnt tell the real story for people working. Just because the mean is 60k, does not indicate that you can generalise all teachers are going home with a 60k paypacket something a few people have tried to get you to understand

what do you suggest is used instead of average? If people on here are to be believed most teachers earn much less. If thats true than a large minority of them must be on a lot more to bring up the average.

cobweb

gurramok wrote: »

So you are using the mean now. Of course an average does not tell the whole story as some earn below and above it unfairly.

That part about understanding was the bit the likes of you and others could not see the word 'allowances'.

What is the mean then?



Yeh, the nixers must be hard to do in the summer.

As stated earlier I understand the wage is made up of salary and allowances but you ignored that

FlutterinBantam

brummytom wrote: »

Sorry, i find it hard to "keep up" with drivel.

As you can see from my location, I am neither Irish nor do I live in Ireland so please feel free to ignore my posts. However, I do come from a family of teachers - my granny was a teacher (until laws introduced meant her Irish teaching qualification was no longer valid here), I have six aunties and uncles who are recently retired teachers, a great uncle who was teacher, a father who is currently a teacher off work with stress (believe me, it's not half a cushy job as people seem to think) and a mother and cousin who both left the profession due to the same reason.

I know this point has been made many a time in this thread (I can keep up with some things ) people don't seem to believe teaching takes up a lot more time than just 6 hours a day - marking, lesson plans, preparing classrooms all take up a great deal of time, and people who take such a job should be applauded, not ridiculed.

Can I mark you down as a Vested Interest so?

cobweb

copacetic wrote: »

what do you suggest is used instead of average? If people on here are to be believed most teachers earn much less. If thats true than a large minority of them must be on a lot more to bring up the average.

I am suggesting that if there are teachers on 60k pa that they have been working for a number of years in the profession and are near the top of the scale as stated elsewhere earlier but that a lot of the teachers I know and myself included are paid nowhere near that amount.

Lockstep

I;d like to see a breakdown of the averages quoted.

It seems strange that the average teacher (most of the ones I know earn €30-40k) could be getting an additional €20-30k.

gurramok

cobweb wrote: »

As stated earlier I understand the wage is made up of salary and allowances but you ignored that

Where did you state it?

No i did not ignore it, the shoe was on the other foot. You kept asking and replying about salaries and scales yet you could not see 'total income', rather simple.

cobweb wrote:

This has been pointed out before but it is easier to ignore it as teachers who do earn that much are probably working for years and near top of scale but its easier to come out with any oul figure rather then stick with reality

tallaght01

It would be interesting to see the median salary, or even the mode.

The govt never produce those numbers when trying to sell their tosh to the public. And why would they, I guess, when they swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Lockstep

tallaght01 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the median salary, or even the mode.

Agreed.

gurramok

tallaght01 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the median salary, or even the mode.

The govt never produce those numbers when trying to sell their tosh to the public. And why would they, I guess, when they swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Do you accept the average figures then?

FlutterinBantam

tallaght01 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the median salary, or even the mode.

The govt never produce those numbers when trying to sell their tosh to the public. And why would they, I guess, when they swallow it hook, line and sinker.

The public are not that foolish buddy.

they know when the vested interests in the public service and the HSe go on with their rhetoric.

Local hospitals= licence for people to come in on a 24 hr basis and sleep for their shift on most occasions, while maintaining the expense of 24 hr coverage.

People are not fools.