Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

phasers

In relation to the posting on boards while at work thing, every teacher in my school regularly uses MSN messenger while they're meant to be working. They forget to turn it off when they turn on their projectors and we regularly see stuff like "last nite was mental" or something

freire

I haven't read this entire thread - too long, too negative, too bitter, too misinformed from the dozen or so pages I have read. I'm only posting on here out of solidarity.

This to my professional colleagues.

I meet haters every day. I don't bother to argue any more. I won't add grist to their mill. That flutterer guy that started this whole thing, and all his hating buds that chime in, I'd ignore them. If we don't rise to the bait they've nothing to screech and wail about. Their (f)ire would soon burn out after some perfunctory virtual back-slapping and high-5ing.

I've said it before, love my job. Deadly buzz. I won't do it for nothing and I won't apologize for my conditions of service.

End of.

I'lllearnye

It looks like the After Hours 'elite' aren't around bobbbb. Now that there's some peace and quiet, what do you do with your 60k a year? I spend my holidays rolling around naked in the cash I've earned, laughing at those who work in the private sector and only (on average ) get 20 days holidays a year. And I spend some time writing up notes on when and how I'm going to strike. Then, if I've the time, I'll photocopy some pages for the children to colour in. :pac:
Because I really have nothing better to do!

book smarts

We need a Stalin-type dictator to purge the public sector unions.

I'lllearnye

freire wrote: »

I meet haters every day. I don't bother to argue any more. I won't add grist to their mill. That flutterer guy that started this whole thing, and all his hating buds that chime in, I'd ignore them. If we don't rise to the bait they've nothing to screech and wail about. Their (f)ire would soon burn out after some perfunctory virtual back-slapping and high-5ing.

The worst thing about this is that one of the posters complaining has a daughter going to school. And he's said that his child regularly updates him on how much work her teacher is doing in the classroom. I don't know whether he's sending her to be educated or if she's an undercover spy working for the government and Joe Duffy.
Part of our job as educators is to work in tandem with the parents to ensure that each child has the best exposure to education and all it's benefits. It's not supposed to be parents against teachers. How is a child supposed to get the best from education if her father is complaining about the person teaching her?
In one parent teacher meeting, I told the mother of one of my pupils that he doesn't bring his pencil case into school. Her reply was to say that it was my job to make sure he had his pencil. Yet another case of us against them. I often hear 'But you're the teacher, you're supposed to teach him' when I bring up the subject of helping their child with their homework.
There are wonderful parents who realise the importance of working side by side with the teacher and realising what's best for their children. Then there are others who just like to complain about the 'crap/easy/overpaid' job teachers do.
By the way, it's part of a teacher's official job description to enlist the aid of parents when teaching their child. Teachers aren't offloading their work just to make their day easier.
The basic tenet of this thread is 'us against them'......it's the last thing a child needs when he's being prepared for life as an adult.

FlutterinBantam

freire wrote: »

I haven't read this entire thread - too long, too negative, too bitter, too misinformed from the dozen or so pages I have read. I'm only posting on here out of solidarity.

This to my professional colleagues.

I meet haters every day. I don't bother to argue any more. I won't add grist to their mill. That flutterer guy that started this whole thing, and all his hating buds that chime in, I'd ignore them. If we don't rise to the bait they've nothing to screech and wail about. Their (f)ire would soon burn out after some perfunctory virtual back-slapping and high-5ing.

I've said it before, love my job. Deadly buzz. I won't do it for nothing and I won't apologize for my conditions of service.

End of.

Hi buddy, that Flutterer guy here.

Can I ask you to do something, read todays papers, tune in to Newstalk right now,Karen Coleman, teachers I can assure you are getting no sympathy. None whatsoever.

There's no hate in the flutterer guy, just common sense,plain honest to god common sense.
I have great regard for teachers,they do a tough job, but please lads and lassies don't take the taxpayer for a total idiot, and try to spin that teachers are any worse off.

Read pages 18 and 19 Sun day Mail,it might help to get some perspective on things.

bobbbb

I'lllearnye wrote: »

It looks like the After Hours 'elite' aren't around bobbbb. Now that there's some peace and quiet, what do you do with your 60k a year? I spend my holidays rolling around naked in the cash I've earned, laughing at those who work in the private sector and only (on average ) get 20 days holidays a year. And I spend some time writing up notes on when and how I'm going to strike. Then, if I've the time, I'll photocopy some pages for the children to colour in. :pac:
Because I really have nothing better to do!

Im not a teacher. I just hate people picking on people i know to be value for money and provide a service we ALL need and cannot do without.

I work in IT in the private sector and to be very honest would be sick if i was only on 60k in the position im in now.

I work 7 hours a day and have as many breaks as i like. and i do not bring work home with me. I do nothing on my holidays (30 days on average, depending on bonus days) but relax. I look after my pension which is doing well enough for me to retire early and pay me a nice fat pension. I top up my pension from my bonus every year too.

Im willing to admit how easy we have it in the private sector provided we have made our bed properly. Id never trade it for public sector. They get too much grief from uninformed idiots.

If people arent earning that kind of money 14 years into their career that they have got a degree for and invested in themselves they really have only themselves to blame.

If they dont have a pension above and beyond the state pension (which i'll happily take too) they have only themselves to blame. Take for example one of the posters complaining about a teachers pension and it turned out he only paid about €11 a week into his since 2001. Now we'll all be bailing him out with the state pension and probably paying his rent and medical card for him from when he retires until he dies.

The private sector is great if you make it your business to skill up and keep current in your job. Education provides us with the tools to do this. you need to work at your career instead of whinging about teachers who do a great job.

And maybe if they worked instead of spent their working day posting on and reading boards they wouldnt have to begrudge other people what they have worked for.

I think teachers do a great job, and most people complaining about them really havent tried to find out what is involved in a teachers working year. They have no clue apart from when they were children sitting in the classroom looking out the window. A childs view.

bobbbb

I'lllearnye wrote: »

The worst thing about this is that one of the posters complaining has a daughter going to school. And he's said that his child regularly updates him on how much work her teacher is doing in the classroom. I don't know whether he's sending her to be educated or if she's an undercover spy working for the government and Joe Duffy.

I know im still laughing at that one. A classic.

otwb

cobweb wrote: »

gurramok wrote: »

Why should I?

I don't have a problem with official figures, you do.

How do you know 50% of teachers are under 35? Source?

Todays Irish Times Pg 13

actual quote "...close to 50% of the 60,000 teaching force are under 35."

Indeed, which brings us to the just over 50% of the teaching force that are over 35. Seems reasonable to assume that there is a distribution of teacher ages and that those that are on boards are likely to be in the younger age category.

This is why you don't have many of the longer serving teachers stating their salaries are in excess of 60k.

I've posted the actual scales and allowances twice now. There is also a link to the cso average salaries somewhere in this thread... which has shown that primary school teacher's earn on averag over 850p.w. (can't be bothered looking back through the thread again to get the actual link).

Can we please stop with the "yes we do earn"/"no you don't earn" X amount and get back to whether this is a reasonable amount to earn for 735 hours work per year (as per the tui salary scales - divide annual scale by 735 to get hourly rates).

If it is then could the teachers kindly stop moaning about their pay.

I'lllearnye

I don't earn as much as 850/week.
I don't moan about how much I get paid because I love my job.
I just don't like this 'them against us' tirade, especially when as a teacher I'm supposed to be working side by side with the people who start tirades like these.

I'lllearnye

bobbbb wrote: »

Im not a teacher. I just hate people picking on people i know to be value for money and provide a service we ALL need and cannot do without.

I work in IT in the private sector and to be very honest would be sick if i was only on 60k in the position im in now.

I work 7 hours a day and have as many breaks as i like. and i do not bring work home with me. I do nothing on my holidays (30 days on average, depending on bonus days) but relax. I look after my pension which is doing well enough for me to retire early and pay me a nice fat pension. I top up my pension from my bonus every year too.

Im willing to admit how easy we have it in the private sector provided we have made our bed properly. Id never trade it for public sector. They get too much grief from uninformed idiots.

If people arent earning that kind of money 14 years into their career that they have got a degree for and invested in themselves they really have only themselves to blame.

If they dont have a pension above and beyond the state pension (which i'll happily take too) they have only themselves to blame. Take for example one of the posters complaining about a teachers pension and it turned out he only paid about €11 a week into his since 2001. Now we'll all be bailing him out with the state pension and probably paying his rent and medical card for him from when he retires until he dies.

The private sector is great if you make it your business to skill up and keep current in your job. Education provides us with the tools to do this. you need to work at your career instead of whinging about teachers who do a great job.

And maybe if they worked instead of spent their working day posting on and reading boards they wouldnt have to begrudge other people what they have worked for.

I think teachers do a great job, and most people complaining about them really havent tried to find out what is involved in a teachers working year. They have no clue apart from when they were children sitting in the classroom looking out the window. A childs view.

Thank you for that lovely post and your honesty. Much more refreshing than the typical knee jerk reactions of those who believe the propaganda the government feeds them.

gurramok

bobbbb wrote: »

Very true. You only have to search their other posts. The times posted on workdays are interesting too.

For example. Have a look at the times what Gurramok posts on work days (incidentally theres a lot of hate in that boy too).
You'd wonder why he even takes a wage from his employer and not from boards instead.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=6343448

They must have great jobs to allow that much time off to read and respond to posts on all sorts of subjects. I have to work during my day. So do the people i manage. I wouldnt have time to post during working hours unless i was off.

bobbbb wrote: »

He probably does nothing.
Hence Gurramoks prejudice against teachers. Actually hes prejusiced against most people from what i can see. Just had a look at his other posts on boards. Did you see the times he posts at during the week. ANd look at the amount of his posts. He must never work.
He wouldnt be on boards that much if he was a teacher. Thats for sure. Or even if he had a job that required proper work.

The private sector is great for goofing off surfing the net.

Alot of hate in those posts. You're link does not work, thats 100 lines for you, now go sit in the corner and recite "i must not vent hate against posters who post facts"

Spying on me now? What i get up to is my own business.

Maybe i am unemployed just like my brother and sister?

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

now go sit in the corner and recite "i must not vent hate against posters who post facts based on jealousy 'cos teachers get more holidays than I do"

That reads a little better, bit closer to the truth :pac:

gurramok

I'lllearnye wrote: »

That reads a little better, bit closer to the truth :pac:

Facts based on jealousy?!

Thats a new one. Still waiting why you as a teacher cannot find a single day to protest during those long summer hols and yet your colleagues could attend union conferences during the week recently which just so happens to be an Easter break, now why is that?

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

Facts based on jealousy?!

Thats a new one. Still waiting why you as a teacher cannot find a single day to protest during those long summer hols and yet your colleagues could attend union conferences during the week recently which just so happens to be an Easter break, now why is that?

Wow you're actually taking this seriously!!
I really thought you were posting just to stir things up.
I'm assuming you've never worked as a teacher, because you think ALL teachers get 60k, nearly every post you've posted has got the word 'holidays' in them. You're fixated with teacher's holidays, even to go so far as to work out how many days we get!! That's a lot of work to do just to make a point about striking during the holidays, but you still refuse to see the argument that there's no point in striking during the holidays. It's like spending a lot of time and effort on an billboard advertising campaign only to have it displayed in the Sahara desert!
Oh and the INTO conference, would you prefer if the teachers went to the conferences during school hours? You complain because teachers don't use their holidays to strike, and now you're complaining that they're using their holidays to go to a conference. Make up your mind and stick to it.

bobbbb

gurramok wrote: »

Alot of hate in those posts. You're link does not work, thats 100 lines for you, now go sit in the corner and recite "i must not vent hate against posters who post facts"

Spying on me now? What i get up to is my own business.

Maybe i am unemployed just like my brother and sister?

You may be unemployed soon if your employer looks up the amount of time you spend on boards on working days. Gos knows how much more time on other sites.

Here you go Gurramok. Put in the search criteria in the image attached. Select Posts and search.

Go to working days and look at the times on your posts. Many many posts throughout the working day.
Im glad you dont work for me.
How much time and money does your employer spend on your boards fetish. A fortune id say. I hope they dont see this. Do you do any work on working day at all?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?


Seriously. Put a number on it. How much of your employers money are you wasting with your time spent on boards? Thousands a year? More?
And you have the balls to complain about anyone elses working time.

gurramok

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Wow you're actually taking this seriously!!
I really thought you were posting just to stir things up.
I'm assuming you've never worked as a teacher, because you think ALL teachers get 60k, nearly every post you've posted has got the word 'holidays' in them. You're fixated with teacher's holidays, even to go so far as to work out how many days we get!! That's a lot of work to do just to make a point about striking during the holidays, but you still refuse to see the argument that there's no point in striking during the holidays. It's like spending a lot of time and effort on an billboard advertising campaign only to have it displayed in the Sahara desert!
Oh and the INTO conference, would you prefer if the teachers went to the conferences during school hours? You complain because teachers don't use their holidays to strike, and now you're complaining that they're using their holidays to go to a conference. Make up your mind and stick to it.

60k is the average, did you miss that part?

So they canot attend conferences during school hours so they should strike outside school hours too.
They have 96 days to do that during the year plus all those weekends as well to protest.

bobbbb wrote: »

You may be unemployed soon if your employer looks up the amount of time you spend on boards on working days. Gos knows how much more time on other sites.

Here you go Gurramok. Put in the search criteria in the image attached. Select Posts and search.

Go to working days and look at the times on your posts. Many many posts throughout the working day.
Im glad you dont work for me.
How much time and money does your employer spend on your boards fetish. A fortune id say. I hope they dont see this. Do you do any work on working day at all?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?


Seriously. Put a number on it. How much of your employers money are you wasting with your time spent on boards? Thousands a year? More?
And you have the balls to complain about anyone elses working time.

What are you on about boy? Great that you found the search function, do you want a medal?

Quick jumping to conclusions on my surf time, maybe i am a great multi-tasker?
Or maybe i'm unemployed or self-employed?

bobbbb

gurramok wrote: »

60k is the average, did you miss that part?

So they canot attend conferences during school hours so they should strike outside school hours too.
They have 96 days to do that during the year plus all those weekends as well to protest.



What are you on about boy? Great that you found the search function, do you want a medal?

Quick jumping to conclusions on my surf time, maybe i am a great multi-tasker?
Or maybe i'm unemployed or self-employed?

You forget you've already told us you're not self-employed and not unemployed. During your rants about PAYE and so on. You made the posts. Go read about yorself. Your memory is a problem for you, thats obvious just from this thread.

Ahhhhh. You've been caught with your pants down. Lets all shed a tear for you.

gurramok

bobbbb wrote: »

You forget you've already told us you're not self-employed and not unemployed. During your rants about PAYE and so on. You made the posts. Go read about yorself. Your memory is a problem for you, thats obvious just from this thread.

Ahhhhh. You've been caught with your pants down. Lets all shed a tear for you.

Oh no, so you found the search function then, congratulations, thats a Grade A for you!

It does not matter what i work in as you have a problem with it hence your KGB style tracking.

I point out the 100day hols which leads to you been jealous of my surf time, why don't you surf more?

Can you not multi-task?!

Why do you resent PAYE workers so much?

omahaid

Its pretty bad when people are stalking other boards users rather than deal with issues, and they are simple really. Teachers need to row in behind the rest of the country, benchmarking should be applied now, i.e. reduce public sector salaries inline with private sector workers. It doesn't matter in the end anyway, if the teachers achieve what they want they will just ensure they are out of a job then the country declares bankruptcy.

Teachers, time to cop on and join the real world, and I think that goes for most public sector workers. As an anecdote, I know some people working in the PS/CS (two in the county council, one garda and one receptionist in a hospital). All of them are contemplating retiring soon in case they lose any more money. Me on the other hand, my pension is nearly worthless. Can I strike? Yea. Will it do me any good? No

bobbbb

gurramok wrote: »

Oh no, so you found the search function then, congratulations, thats a Grade A for you!

It does not matter what i work in as you have a problem with it hence your KGB style tracking.

I point out the 100day hols which leads to you been jealous of my surf time, why don't you surf more?

Can you not multi-task?!

Why do you resent PAYE workers so much?

What do you do multi task at where you can read about 5 different threads, formulate a reply to them all about every 10 - 30 minutes throughout your working day and then type up an answer all at the same time?

I think not.

The evidence is there for all to see. You are clearly wasting time on the web most of your working day. While at the same time telling teachers that they do nothing.

Its a sit down with your employer you need. Not the right to castigate hard workers anonymously while you are being paid by your employer to do your own job.

Smiley faces wont get you out of this one.

omahaid

And you know something else €887 a week isnt bad. Thats from the CSO. I have a third level degree, I'm several years into my job, I'm earning €600 a week, so I dunno... I can't understand how people here are so blase about the economy and the public sector pay bill? Its as if some groups really want the country to bring in the IMF or Germany or something. It really gets my goat, sorry.

bobbbb

omahaid wrote: »

Its pretty bad when people are stalking other boards users rather than deal with issues, and they are simple really.

Whats wrong. I simply used the search function to see what else they posted in this thread and what do you know, This whole thing just jumps up and you can see plain as day the people who are picking on others and accusing them of doing no work and wasting their employers money, are in fact doing no work themselves and wasting their own employers money.

Pots and Kettles.

I think its very relevant to this thread, dont you?

gurramok

bobbbb wrote: »

What do you do multi task at where you can read about 5 different threads, formulate a reply to them all about every 10 - 30 minutes throughout your working day and then type up an answer all at the same time?

I think not.

The evidence is there for all to see. You are clearly wasting time on the web most of your working day. While at the same time telling teachers that they do nothing.

Its a sit down with your employer you need. Not the right to castigate hard workers anonymously while you are being paid by your employer to do your own job.

Smiley faces wont get you out of this one.

Maybe i'm better than you at my work and ahem 'more successful' than you?

Do you need grinds?

omahaid

bobbbb wrote: »

The evidence is there for all to see. You are clearly wasting time on the web most of your working day. While at the same time telling teachers that they do nothing.

Its a sit down with your employer you need. Not the right to castigate hard workers anonymously while you are being paid by your employer to do your own job.

Smiley faces wont get you out of this one.

It doesnt bother me what some private sector worker does all day, it's not my income levy thats paying him and its not because of him the levy is being doubled. I don't blame teachers, but when I had a pay cut I took it because a) I had no choice b) its that or lose my job c) we have to (as a nation) reduce costs accross the board, that means pay cuts for all and reduce the dole, simple as that

omahaid

bobbbb wrote: »

I think its very relevant to this thread, dont you?

In fact, I think it is irrelvant to the thread and misleading. I, for one, do not wish to imply I think teachers don't do a hard job, they do, I believe that 100%. That is not the issue though, is it?

bobbbb

omahaid wrote: »

In fact, I think it is irrelvant to the thread and misleading. I, for one, do not wish to imply I think teachers don't do a hard job, they do, I believe that 100%. That is not the issue though, is it?

But then neither is your wage relevant unless you tell us what you work at or how long you work at it either or how your degree elates to your job..
Its about as comparable to a teachers wage as Bill Gates wage is, if you didnt know what he worked at or where he worked.

But you will agree that €600 a week is not a good wage. Its not even near the average industrial wage.

omahaid wrote: »

And you know something else €887 a week isnt bad. Thats from the CSO. I have a third level degree, I'm several years into my job, I'm earning €600 a week, so I dunno... I can't understand how people here are so blase about the economy and the public sector pay bill? Its as if some groups really want the country to bring in the IMF or Germany or something. It really gets my goat, sorry.

gurramok

bobbbb wrote: »

But then neither is your wage relevant unless you tell us what you work at or how long you work at it either.
Its about as comparable to a teachers wage as Bill gates is, if you didnt know what he worked at or where he worked.

But you will agree that €600 a week is not a good wage. Its not even near the average industrial wage.

Whats a good wage then?

ntlbell

bobbbb wrote: »

Very true. You only have to search their other posts. The times posted on workdays are interesting too.

For example. Have a look at the times what Gurramok posts on work days (incidentally theres a lot of hate in that boy too).
You'd wonder why he even takes a wage from his employer and not from boards instead.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=6343448

They must have great jobs to allow that much time off to read and respond to posts on all sorts of subjects. I have to work during my day. So do the people i manage. I wouldnt have time to post during working hours unless i was off.

have you checked the times of dudess's? and her in the public sector :eek:

you should stalk me some more and you'll probably also figure out i don't work 9-5

omahaid

bobbbb wrote: »

But you will agree that €600 a week is not a good wage. Its not even near the average industrial wage.

It's actually pretty close I imagine

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/indearnings.htm

Says it is €624 (in 2006 I grant you and for industrial workers. I suspect it is closer to 700 now?), and I'm only at it a few years. The average will take into account me and they guy who is on, say, 800-900 a week.

Anyway, does it matter if it is a good wage? Not really if your employer cant afford anymore, which is where the Irish state is heading.

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

The worst thing about this is that one of the posters complaining has a daughter going to school. And he's said that his child regularly updates him on how much work her teacher is doing in the classroom. I don't know whether he's sending her to be educated or if she's an undercover spy working for the government and Joe Duffy.
Part of our job as educators is to work in tandem with the parents to ensure that each child has the best exposure to education and all it's benefits. It's not supposed to be parents against teachers. How is a child supposed to get the best from education if her father is complaining about the person teaching her?
In one parent teacher meeting, I told the mother of one of my pupils that he doesn't bring his pencil case into school. Her reply was to say that it was my job to make sure he had his pencil. Yet another case of us against them. I often hear 'But you're the teacher, you're supposed to teach him' when I bring up the subject of helping their child with their homework.
There are wonderful parents who realise the importance of working side by side with the teacher and realising what's best for their children. Then there are others who just like to complain about the 'crap/easy/overpaid' job teachers do.
By the way, it's part of a teacher's official job description to enlist the aid of parents when teaching their child. Teachers aren't offloading their work just to make their day easier.
The basic tenet of this thread is 'us against them'......it's the last thing a child needs when he's being prepared for life as an adult.

paragraph's teacher, punctuation, I can't read that

cranoo

IM sick to my bollix of listening to the public service bashing, do away with the public service!!! Army,Guards,teachers,nurses, I would like to see your face when your sick and no one there to treat you, and you have to mind your own bastard kids all day, and when someone takes all you have just because they want to, who will you run to then, do away with the public sector and let the strongest and the fittest survive, By the way I like your car and your wife I think ill have them both :-) :-)

PS.im not in the public service im just sick of listening to all the greedy fools who lost their confirmation money on a gamble.

bobbbb

gurramok wrote: »

Maybe i'm better than you at my work and ahem 'more successful' than you?

Do you need grinds?

And i suppose you're not bitter.

You keep avoiding the questions. And trying to change the subject.
I know it hurts when you are caught with your pants own, but try and be a man about it.

Anyone who spends as much time on the web as you during a working day is a liability. You have not the right to comment on teachers value at all. No wonder you're afraid of losing your job tbh.

I would just advise anyone to read the last page or 2 of this thread before even entertaining any comment from yourself from now on. They can make up their own minds. The search function is just a click away and shows what a waste of money you are to your employer.

Waste of time typing anymore here.

gurramok

cranoo wrote: »

IM sick to my bollix of listening to the public service bashing, do away with the public service!!! Army,Guards,teachers,nurses, I would like to see your face when your sick and no one there to treat you, and you have to mind your own bastard kids all day, and when someone takes all you have just because they want to, who will you run to then, do away with the public sector and let the strongest and the fittest survive, By the way I like your car and your wife I think ill have them both :-) :-)

PS.im not in the public service im just sick of listening to all the greedy fools who lost their pocket money on a gamble.

Do you know that gardai, soldiers and nurses do not take home 60kpa like the teachers?
Plus they have far more dangerous jobs than the threat of facing 5yr old toddlers in babies class.

gurramok

bobbbb wrote: »

Anyone who spends as much time on the web as you during a working day is a liability. .

So Mods are wasters then?

cranoo

gurramok wrote: »

Do you know that gardai, soldiers and nurses do not take home 60kpa like the teachers?
Plus they have far more dangerous jobs than the threat of facing 5yr old toddlers in babies class.

yes I do know, I spent three years in lebanon and got paid buttons for it .

dr.bollocko

gurramok wrote: »

Plus they have far more dangerous jobs than the threat of facing 5yr old toddlers in babies class.

Well I know I'll be ****ed when they introduce this new "danger" scale for wages anyway.

ntlbell

bobbbb wrote: »

And i suppose you're not bitter.

You keep avoiding the questions. And trying to change the subject.
I know it hurts when you are caught with your pants own, but try and be a man about it.

Anyone who spends as much time on the web as you during a working day is a liability. You have not the right to comment on teachers value at all. No wonder you're afraid of losing your job tbh.

I would just advise anyone to read the last page or 2 of this thread before even entertaining any comment from yourself from now on. They can make up their own minds. The search function is just a click away and shows what a waste of money you are to your employer.

Waste of time typing anymore here.

what the hell has the amount of time he spends on baords got to to with teachers refusing to educate the future of this country because they feel 60k is not good enough

can you clear this up?

are you saying it's ok teachers that you dont work as hard nor does guuramok?

what is your point?

Dudess

gurramok wrote: »

No need to shout. Again, you have not read the thread. Its not about striking at empty buildings holding placards, its about organising themselves for protests outside Dail etc over their huge holiday period.

Not to much to ask is it?

Gurramok, a strike takes place during the working day, and does so because that's the whole point of it. Whether you agree or disagree with the strike, it's silly to tell teachers not to strike during the working day - they have the right to do so, and doing so means maximum impact. If a bunch of nurses went on strike during their time off, that would obviously go unnoticed. The point of a strike is to disrupt things, to inconvenience people - I don't care whether you agree with the strike or not, I'm just saying you seem to miss the point of strike action.

chosen1 wrote: »

the vast majority of teachers I've experienced wouldn't have to plan every single step of their classes. Maybe for the first few years of teaching, but things change after this as you have similar content to teach year to year.

Well you'll obviously have to do a certain amount of planning for the next day - you're not going to know everything off by heart from last year or the year before.

You also have an awful lot of teachers who do absolutely nothing other than their set 22hrs a week and do very little teaching in the classroom.

It wouldn't be possible to get their job done properly if that were the case. And how do you know?

These tend to be the same people who are most vocal in union meetings about how hard they work in my experience.

How on earth could you possibly know that?

ntlbell wrote: »

NO ONE THINKS BEEN A TEACHER IS EASY WE UNDERSTAND HOW DIFFUCLT IT IS

THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE

come on teacher, pay attention

Plenty do here, ntlbell. And no, it wasn't the issue initially but it has inevitably become a huge focus.

ntlbell wrote: »

average, average, average salary is 60k

do we keep having to go over this? he didn't say YOU were on 60k
60K
the depeartment of edu doesn't state COBWEB is on 60k

it states the avg earnings for a teacher are 60k

average..

But gurramok keeps saying "your 60K this", "your 60K that" to the teachers posting here as if all teachers earn 60K. Gurramok, apart from Spurious who's been in the game many years now, do you honestly think the other teachers posting here are earning 60K? I mean you know obviously they're not, so why keep throwing it out there as if they are? It just looks like you're trying to wind them up - doesn't make for fair debating.
And I'm not saying spurious earns 60K, I'm just suggesting she'd be more likely to.

Mr. Croft wrote: »

A guaranteed 30 - 40 K for life until a cushy pension sounds like a pretty sweeet deal to me and probably a lot of others, ESPECIALLY with all the holidays.

You'd swear the holidays were a generous perk like a massive Christmas bonus - they're for the pupils' benefit, not the teachers'. And it's hardly the teachers' fault if there isn't stuff provided for them by the Department of Education to do during the holidays which is relevant to their job (well there is, but it's not full-time).

You can claim you prepare mark exams during the holidays but most people dont believe it

Oh well, if most people "don't believe it" they must be right...

if that was the case why not make it official and go to the school during july/august you could help lower performing kids and prepare lessons.

So teachers can just stick a card on the shop noticeboard saying "I'm in school, come in for extra tuition"? You do know that would require approval from the Department of Education? We're talking children here - there are insurance and safety concerns. Can't believe the oversimplification...
And then, someone else said "well why don't they give grinds during holidays?" but that would be doing a nixer which will then get a flood of criticism for its "greed".

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Also, all this stuff about "they earn too much if you consider their holidays". So it would be fairer for them to get part-time salaries? Even though they're in full-time jobs (holidays are irrelevant - these are for the kids, not the teachers... unless anyone believes the kids should be in the class all year round and until 5pm every day. Doubt any parent would be too keen on that somehow) and vocational jobs that require highly qualified individuals? If you consider it from that point of view, there's actually nothing AT ALL remarkable about their salaries.

Teachers, I don't think anything would make me do your job. And I'm starting to think, given all the sh1t that goes with it, you're actually perhaps underpaid.

irish_bob

gurramok wrote: »

Do you know that gardai, soldiers and nurses do not take home 60kpa like the teachers?
Plus they have far more dangerous jobs than the threat of facing 5yr old toddlers in babies class.

gardai have a higher salary than teachers , nurses earn around the same as teachers

all three professions are over paid in this country

ntlbell

irish_bob wrote: »

gardai have a higher salary than teachers , nurses earn around the same as teachers

all three professions are over paid in this country

source?


have you looked at the scales?

you might want to look at them again

they're all online...

gurramok

Dudess wrote: »

Gurramok, a strike takes place during the working day, and does so because that's the whole point of it. Whether you agree or disagree with the strike, it's silly to tell teachers not to strike during the working day - they have the right to do so, and doing so means maximum impact. If a bunch of nurses went on strike during their time off, that would obviously go unnoticed. The point of a strike is to disrupt things, to inconvenience people - I don't care whether you agree with the strike or not, I'm just saying you seem to miss the point of strike action.

So you advocate to hit the kids than rather to take action on their extremely generous allocation of 100 days off a year.

Did you not notice nurses striking on their lunchbreaks, end of shifts last time?
Same thing, they chose to take action on their time off rather than affect patients but they don't get 100days off to strike plus they actually care about patients by doing the above.

Guess the unemployed parents bringing their kids to school will agree with you:rolleyes:

Dudess wrote: »

But gurramok keeps saying "your 60K this", "your 60K that" to the teachers posting here as if all teachers earn 60K. Gurramok, apart from Spurious who's been in the game many years now, do you honestly think the other teachers posting here are earning 60K? I mean you know obviously they're not, so why keep throwing it out there as if they are? It just looks like you're trying to wind them up - doesn't make for fair debating.
And I'm not saying spurious earns 60K, I'm just suggesting she'd be more likely to.

This has been explained already. 60k is an AVERAGE hence some posters will earn below that, some on it and some above it, but hey, 60k is just a fact.

(Spurious is a she?:eek:)

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

60k is the average, did you miss that part?

So they canot attend conferences during school hours so they should strike outside school hours too.
They have 96 days to do that during the year plus all those weekends as well to protest.

Did YOU miss the part where I said I don't earn 60k a year? You're basing your arguments on 60k, but that argument doesn't wash with me. You'll have to come up with something better.

About the conference....it was who YOU complained about teachers going to a conference while on their holidays. What do you want, a dictatorship where every day of your holiday/free time has to be accounted for? Regardless of how much free time I get, it's part of the job and it's none of your business what I do with it. I don't ask you what you do in your holidays, or what you do with your pay....these items are part of your job and you knew what you were getting into when you got into it. Grow up and quit your moaning about holidays, honestly the children in my first class have more maturity.

gurramok

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Did YOU miss the part where I said I don't earn 60k a year? You're basing your arguments on 60k, but that argument doesn't wash with me. You'll have to come up with something better.

Average, do you know what average means? Maths!!

You might earn below that, some of your colleagues earn above that, rather simple.

I'lllearnye wrote: »

About the conference....it was who YOU complained about teachers going to a conference while on their holidays. What do you want, a dictatorship where every day of your holiday/free time has to be accounted for? Regardless of how much free time I get, it's part of the job and it's none of your business what I do with it. I don't ask you what you do in your holidays, or what you do with your pay....these items are part of your job and you knew what you were getting into when you got into it. Grow up and quit your moaning about holidays, honestly the children in my first class have more maturity.

I don't get 100 days holidays and i do not intend to strike affecting first class kids.

Its a perfectly valid situation. Teachers voting for strikes can attend conferences on their days off yet they cannot find a single day to protest outside Dail Eireann on their days off?

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Did YOU miss the part where I said I don't earn 60k a year? You're basing your arguments on 60k, but that argument doesn't wash with me. You'll have to come up with something better.

About the conference....it was who YOU complained about teachers going to a conference while on their holidays. What do you want, a dictatorship where every day of your holiday/free time has to be accounted for? Regardless of how much free time I get, it's part of the job and it's none of your business what I do with it. I don't ask you what you do in your holidays, or what you do with your pay....these items are part of your job and you knew what you were getting into when you got into it. Grow up and quit your moaning about holidays, honestly the children in my first class have more maturity.

You knew what you were getting into you went with an employer that depends on the financial state being sound, it's not sound anymore so you get less money

grow up quit your moaning have some more maturity and teach those kids

ntlbell

gurramok wrote: »

Average, do you know what average means? Maths!!

You might earn below that, some of your colleagues earn above that, rather simple.



I don't get 100 days holidays and i do not intend to strike affecting first class kids.

Its a perfectly valid situation. Teachers voting for strikes can attend conferences on their days off yet they cannot find a single day to protest outside Dail Eireann on their days off?

we don't seem to be getting any math or english teachers

Dudess

gurramok wrote: »

So you advocate to hit the kids than rather to take action on their extremely generous allocation of 100 days off a year.

Yes, that's the point of a strike, to do so during the working day, to create maximum impact. It's not something that's particularly wanted among staff but it's seen as a last resort. To say teachers don't hold protest marches at weekends and during the holidays is utterly misinformed (e.g. Cork was impenetrable one Saturday a few months ago because of thousands of teachers and their supporters out marching). They feel that doesn't work, so they resort to a more drastic measure - in order to increase the likelihood of something being done about it.

Did you not notice nurses striking on their lunchbreaks, end of shifts last time? Same thing, they chose to take action on their time off rather than affect patients but they don't get 100days off to strike plus they actually care about patients by doing the above.

You can't strike when you're not working, you can protest, but not strike. It's silly to keep saying that. There definitely was a nurses' strike (possibly more than one) in the last 15 years where nurses stopped doing their duties.
This sh1t of "they actually care about patients" (it's more a case of "they don't want them to get more ill/die") as if striking teachers don't care about pupils - some probably don't but you're being really unfair by just deciding none of them do.

This has been explained already. 60k is an AVERAGE hence some posters will earn below that, some on it and some above it

Yes, it has indeed been explained... and yet, you keep goading teachers here by saying "your 60K this", "your 60K that" when you KNOW they don't earn 60K. Or else you talk about teachers in general: "their 60K this", "their 60K that" when you KNOW they don't all earn 60K. It just weakens the sh1t out of your argument.

but hey, an average salary of 60k is just a fact.

Fixed your post.

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

paragraph's teacher, punctuation, I can't read that

Ah well, it's quite obvious you don't have a valid point to make.
It might be the general consensus that it's the children who make a teacher's job tough but I'd jsut like to point out that it's remarks from parents (like the one above) that make a teacher's job even more stressful than it is. Way to support your daughter's education :rolleyes:

BubbleWrap85

gurramok wrote: »

So you advocate to hit the kids than rather to take action on their extremely generous allocation of 100 days off a year.

You still don't revise your facts darling - I've already worked out the days for you, it's about 20 days less than that. Haven't you learned anything?

Also, as Dudess said [several times], the purpose of a strike is to create incovenience and maximum attention/impact. Protests were held on Saturdays in the past with little or no real results. Striking on a school day will make parents sit up and listen, and the government also - Parents will be annoyed that teachers are striking and therefore more likely to lodge complaints to the government.

Funnily enough also, going on strike for the day isn't something that people particularly look forward to. I know there are some teachers who would prefer to teach the children instead of going on strike, but cannot go against their union. As I said previously, if there was another ballot, chances are the vote would be NO for immediate industrial action - again, as I said already, when we voted, we did not think it would actually come to striking. Perhaps work to rule would be much better - but then you'd probably have some sob story about your kid not being able to go to football training after school, or the children aren't going on a school tour, or the teacher didn't turn up for the Communion mass on a Saturday..... I think you're focusing too much on the holidays and pay - we do many other things that parents forget about and take for granted.

gurramok wrote: »

Did you not notice nurses striking on their lunchbreaks, end of shifts last time?
Same thing, they chose to take action on their time off rather than affect patients but they don't get 100days off to strike plus they actually care about patients by doing the above.

Again, you seem to be completely fixated on these made up 100 days. Also, again, you are missing the point of strike action. Perhaps I'll repeat again, people go on strike to gain maximum impact. No point striking on days when it won't affect anyone. If the children are already at home, then nobody is going to be affected by a strike! It would be like buying a fish tank if you didn't own any fish - what the hell would be the point???

May I suggest going back to retrain in college and becoming a teacher - then you can enjoy all those luxurious hoildays we have Might need to do something about the attitude though.

gurramok wrote: »

Guess the unemployed parents bringing their kids to school will agree with you:rolleyes:

Plenty of people are unemployed. My Dad is unemployed and my Mum works part time, with her hours likely to be cut also. However, I don't think they're spouting nonsense about teachers as because I lived with them whilst in college etc, they realise the behind the scenes work that goes into being a teacher. i.e. they're informed about the topic, something which you m'dear are NOT.

gurramok wrote: »

This has been explained already. 60k is an AVERAGE hence some posters will earn below that, some on it and some above it, but hey, 60k is just a fact.

(Spurious is a she?:eek:)

Seeing as we're throwing wage figures about, care to tell us what you are earning? Is this 60K take home or gross? Did you research that much? Whilst we're talking about averages, I suppose the average worker wouldn't spend most of his/her working day on boards either, but sure you'll have some who spend none of their day on it/most of their day on it. ........:P

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

You knew what you were getting into you went with an employer that depends on the financial state being sound, it's not sound anymore so you get less money

grow up quit your moaning have some more maturity and teach those kids

I've never once said I'm not happy with the money I get. Stop applying your blanket theory of what teachers are like to me