Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Ah well, it's quite obvious you don't have a valid point to make.
It might be the general consensus that it's the children who make a teacher's job tough but I'd jsut like to point out that it's remarks from parents (like the one above) that make a teacher's job even more stressful than it is. Way to support your daughter's education :rolleyes:

I couldn't make one because your post was too difficult to read.

Edit it, clean it up and I'll answer it.

thanks teacher

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

I've never once said I'm not happy with the money I get. Stop applying your blanket theory of what teachers are like to me

So can you tell us what your going on strike for?

ntlbell

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

Also, as Dudess said [several times], the purpose of a strike is to create incovenience and maximum attention/impact. Protests were held on Saturdays in the past with little or no real results. Striking on a school day will make parents sit up and listen, and the government also - Parents will be annoyed that teachers are striking and therefore more likely to lodge complaints to the government.

Did you happen to listen to the radio this morning?

Read a newspaper? the parents are getting angry, not with the government tho.

I'lllearnye

I'm not going on strike, where did I say I was? And your flippant remark about cleaning it up teacher is a pile of BS. I obviously hit a raw nerve, otherwise why quote something you 'didn't' understand?

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

Average, do you know what average means? Maths!!

You decided to ignore the part where I don't agree with your argument. You still haven't come up with anything better.

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

I'm not going on strike, where did I say I was? And your flippant remark about cleaning it up teacher is a pile of BS. I obviously hit a raw nerve, otherwise why quote something you 'didn't' understand?

I was quoting it for the sake of the awful punctuation and lack of paragraph's etc.

Maybe you didn't notice it when you typed it out so I thought I would give you a second look.

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

I was quoting it for the sake of the awful punctuation and lack of paragraph's etc.

Maybe you didn't notice it when you typed it out so I thought I would give you a second look.

There you go-quoted to show your awful punctuation.

I now understand why you love the feeling of side-stepping an argument you don't have an answer for by being a punctuation nazi.....deadly buzz :pac:

BubbleWrap85

Something for ye both to read [seeing as both of you are holding your "argument" up on your own.....]

According to INTO President Declan Kelleher, primary teachers are paying between ten and fourteen percent of salary towards economic recovery. He said principal teachers were making an additional contribution because of the non-payment of a benchmarking award promised in December 2007.

“In the meantime tax exiles, tax shelterers, property tycoons and the wealthy are walking off scot free from their obligations because they are the friends of this government that simply doesn’t have the courage to take them on,” he said.


Mr Kelleher said the level of cutbacks in primary education was totally disproportionate to other sectors of the public service due to the predicted increase in pupil numbers. He said the union would continue its battle of opposition against them.


He told the union’s annual congress that the primary curriculum was “close to being abandoned” as he said it simply could not be taught in overcrowded classes.


“You simply cannot implement a child centred, highly individualised and group focused curriculum where you have grossly overcrowded classrooms,” said Mr Kelleher. “Many schools will now have to revert to the 1980s and early 1990s where teachers taught whole classes using blackboard and chalk.


A few other quotes:
"Where once young children paid to see a cowboy film,” said Carr, “they now pay for the cowboys.

“Minister, many things can wait,” said Carr, “children cannot. Here and now their skills are being developed, their attitudes formed and their knowledge extended. To them you cannot say, Tomorrow. Their name is Today.”

He said that was why teachers and others opposes the education cutbacks so vehemently. He likened the Minister’s claim that only 200 teaching jobs would be lost to Sean Fitzpatrick style accounting on the eve of an Anglo Irish AGM. He said the Minister couldn’t ignore more than ten thousand extra children who will enroll in primary schools this year and come up with a bottom line of 200 jobs. “Perhaps you learned your mathematics in an over-crowded class?” he asked the Minister

teachers, along with other public servants, never once looked to be a special case, there was no special pleading and at all times teachers offered to pay their fair share.” He said teachers didn’t go into teaching for self- enrichment but neither did they expect to be “cynically mugged” by government in October, February and again in April.


He asked why government went after 30,000 teachers before going after the country’s 30,000 millionaires.

He admitted the economic situation was “dire” but said that when seven billion can be poured into the banks and 400 million can be found for pigs, “forgive me if I think you have your priorities all wrong”. “Education and employment matter as much as banks and more than bacon,” said Carr.





“In the meantime tax exiles, tax shelterers, property tycoons and the wealthy are walking off scot free from their obligations because they are the friends of this government that simply doesn’t have the courage to take them on,” he said.


The INTO President said PAYE workers had always been the soft option for revenue collection.


“Of courses taxes had to be raised,” he said. “Nobody disputes that.” He said the government had allowed public services to be run on windfall taxation for years and that was never going to be sustainable. But he said government blinded itself to this reality for years before “pouncing on the public service.”


He also predicted that government would also reap the reward for it in the next general election which he said would come sooner rather than later.
“I believe that its time that we actively sought to bring about a government in this country that is led by the left and that is not overly influenced by fly by night property tycoons, speculators, big builders and the interests of big business and tax exiles. They have had an open door with government for far too long.”


Mr Kelleher said the level of cutbacks in primary education was totally disproportionate to other sectors of the public service due to the predicted increase in pupil numbers. He said the union would continue its battle of opposition against them.


He told the union’s annual congress that the primary curriculum was “close to being abandoned” as he said it simply could not be taught in overcrowded classes.


“You simply cannot implement a child centred, highly individualised and group focused curriculum where you have grossly overcrowded classrooms,” said Mr Kelleher. “Many schools will now have to revert to the 1980s and early 1990s where teachers taught whole classes using blackboard and chalk.

gurramok

Dudess wrote: »

Yes, that's the point of a strike, to do so during the working day, to create maximum impact. It's not something that's particularly wanted among staff but it's seen as a last resort. To say teachers don't hold protest marches at weekends and during the holidays is utterly misinformed (e.g. Cork was impenetrable one Saturday a few months ago because of thousands of teachers and their supporters out marching). They feel that doesn't work, so they resort to a more drastic measure - in order to increase the likelihood of something being done about it.

You can't strike when you're not working, you can protest, but not strike. It's silly to keep saying that. There definitely was a nurses' strike (possibly more than one) in the last 15 years where nurses stopped doing their duties.
This sh1t of "they actually care about patients" (it's more a case of "they don't want them to get more ill/die") as if striking teachers don't care about pupils - some probably don't but you're being really unfair by just deciding none of them do.

Why should they 'protest' affecting pupils when they pull in 60k on average?

Did you notice the teacher Carol O'Byrne managed to ring RTE radio last week on her Easter time off to give out about her Croatia investment property?

Why can't teachers protest on their days off like Carol?

They have 100days in which to protest but no they chose Sept for when tiny kids out of kindergarten are starting their first day at school.

Yes, it has indeed been explained... and yet, you keep goading teachers here by saying "your 60K this", "your 60K that" when you KNOW they don't earn 60K. Or else you talk about teachers in general: "their 60K this", "their 60K that" when you KNOW they don't all earn 60K. It just weakens the sh1t out of your argument.

Fixed your post.

I am not goading. Those teachers who are here cannot seem to grasp what 'average' means.
Earlier in the thread, there were accusations of lies about that figure yet its the official figure and they still do not accept it.

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

You still don't revise your facts darling - I've already worked out the days for you, it's about 20 days less than that. Haven't you learned anything?

Darling, when we were talking here last night, i included Bank hols as possible protest days so not as to interfere with weekend time off, remember?

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

Also, as Dudess said [several times], the purpose of a strike is to create incovenience and maximum attention/impact. Protests were held on Saturdays in the past with little or no real results. Striking on a school day will make parents sit up and listen, and the government also - Parents will be annoyed that teachers are striking and therefore more likely to lodge complaints to the government.

I think you do not understand. Those parents know the average take pay is 60k while some of those parents are unemployed/struggling, you see the concept of life is tough does not seem to show on teachers.

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

Funnily enough also, going on strike for the day isn't something that people particularly look forward to. I know there are some teachers who would prefer to teach the children instead of going on strike, but cannot go against their union. As I said previously, if there was another ballot, chances are the vote would be NO for immediate industrial action - again, as I said already, when we voted, we did not think it would actually come to striking. Perhaps work to rule would be much better - but then you'd probably have some sob story about your kid not being able to go to football training after school, or the children aren't going on a school tour, or the teacher didn't turn up for the Communion mass on a Saturday..... I think you're focusing too much on the holidays and pay - we do many other things that parents forget about and take for granted.

Again, you seem to be completely fixated on these made up 100 days. Also, again, you are missing the point of strike action. Perhaps I'll repeat again, people go on strike to gain maximum impact. No point striking on days when it won't affect anyone. If the children are already at home, then nobody is going to be affected by a strike! It would be like buying a fish tank if you didn't own any fish - what the hell would be the point???

Protests dear, plenty of time in the long hot summer for protests on their long hols.

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

May I suggest going back to retrain in college and becoming a teacher - then you can enjoy all those luxurious hoildays we have Might need to do something about the attitude though.

Thanks. Will you be marking my exams?

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

Plenty of people are unemployed. My Dad is unemployed and my Mum works part time, with her hours likely to be cut also. However, I don't think they're spouting nonsense about teachers as because I lived with them whilst in college etc, they realise the behind the scenes work that goes into being a teacher. i.e. they're informed about the topic, something which you m'dear are NOT.

Have you discussed with them the possibility of teachers striking over their huge pay while they struggle?

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

Seeing as we're throwing wage figures about, care to tell us what you are earning? Is this 60K take home or gross? Did you research that much? Whilst we're talking about averages, I suppose the average worker wouldn't spend most of his/her working day on boards either, but sure you'll have some who spend none of their day on it/most of their day on it. ........:P

Its just facts dear.

Care to address the mods as to why they have so much time off as well?:P

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

There you go-quoted to show your awful punctuation.

I now understand why you love the feeling of side-stepping an argument you don't have an answer for by being a punctuation nazi.....deadly buzz :pac:

Ah, but I'm not paid to teach kids punctuation, you is teacher, you is.

BubbleWrap85

gurramok wrote: »

Why should they 'protest' affecting pupils when they pull in 60k on average?

Did you notice the teacher Carol O'Byrne managed to ring RTE radio last week on her Easter time off to give out about her Croatia investment property?

Why can't teachers protest on their days off like Carol?

They have 100days in which to protest but no they chose Sept for when tiny kids out of kindergarten are starting their first day at school.



I am not goading. Those teachers who are here cannot seem to grasp what 'average' means.
Earlier in the thread, there were accusations of lies about that figure yet its the official figure and they still do not accept it.



Darling, when we were talking here last night, i included Bank hols as possible protest days so not as to interfere with weekend time off, remember?



I think you do not understand. Those parents know the average take pay is 60k while some of those parents are unemployed/struggling, you see the concept of life is tough does not seem to show on teachers.



Protests dear, plenty of time in the long hot summer for protests on their long hols.



Thanks. Will you be marking my exams?



Have you discussed with them the possibility of teachers striking over their huge pay while they struggle?



Its just facts dear.

Care to address the mods as to why they have so much time off as well?:P

You're not a mod so doesn't apply to you

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

Ah, but I'm not paid to teach kids punctuation, you is teacher, you is.

I really hope you're not blaming me for your punctuation failings along with the fall in the countries finances?

Ooh and I'm not paid to deal with parents who have less maturity than a child in 1st class, but sometimes we all gotta do what we gotta do.
Good day to you sorr, tank you

BubbleWrap85

Boys to be honest, you seem to be standing alone at the moment. The narrow minded views expressed by both of you are disappointing. Giving each other virtual high 5's by whore thanks means nothing. Teachers are not out for public sympathy. I couldn't give a rats arse what you think of me or any other teacher. You mean NOTHING to me. I care about the children in my class, and do my best. I can sleep easily at night knowing I've put in a good days work

Both of you obviously still earn enough to have your broadband connection, which would be considered a luxury, so I don't know what your problem is. You're still getting your wage also, and you'd have us believe that it's a fairly good wage.

Teachers united. I'm more motivated now to strike for a bit of extra dosh, just to rub it in yer faces Keep watching this space!

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

I'm not paid to deal with parents who have less maturity than a child in 1st class either.
Good day to you sorr, tank you

another one bites the dust.

nice side step.

next.

gurramok

Bubblewrap85 wrote:

Something for ye both to read [seeing as both of you are holding your "argument" up on your own.....]

You see, they are not striking over conditions, its over pay. I posted a link last night about it.http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0213/breaking42.html

Teachers' unions to ballot for industrial action over levy

Nothing there about striking over conditions.

As they can pull in on average 60k, they can well afford to pay their fair share of tax like anyone in the private sector does.

ntlbell

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

Boys to be honest, you seem to be standing alone at the moment. The narrow minded views expressed by both of you are disappointing. Giving each other virtual high 5's by whore thanks means nothing. Teachers are not out for public sympathy. I couldn't give a rats arse what you think of me or any other teacher. You mean NOTHING to me. I care about the children in my class, and do my best. I can sleep easily at night knowing I've put in a good days work

Both of you obviously still earn enough to have your broadband connection, which would be considered a luxury, so I don't know what your problem is. You're still getting your wage also, and you'd have us believe that it's a fairly good wage.

Teachers united. I'm more motivated now to strike for a bit of extra dosh, just to rub it in yer faces Keep watching this space!

I think you'll find over 50 pages of posts there has been a serious lack of support for you guys in and most of your support has been teachers...

if teachers are not out for public sympathy why did the teachers union send someone on to pat kenny to tell her horror story of only having 93e a week after buying a 300k house at 26

why did they do that?

My wages, my job, my luxury's I have because I took a chance and got a bit lucky a long the way, I don't deny your holidays, I don't deny you your job security or pension

as i keep saying

I just don't want your bit of bad luck to not affect my or anyone else's kids education


teachers response: "it's only a day"

yes, very mature. thanks for only taken one day away.

I'll be for ever grateful :rolleyes:

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't want your bit of bad luck to affect my or anyone else's kids education

Being totally serious, your view of teachers is not conducive to giving your child the best start in education. The best education a child can have is seeing his/her teachers and parents working together for his benefit, preparing him for the real world. If you don't want to affect your 'kid's' education, the best place would be to quit complaining about your educational partner (that's right...the teacher is your partner). And your educational partner can try to make sure that your child's class environment is safe and not over-crowded so that she can gain the maximum benefit from the Irish educational system.

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

nice side step.

You learned me sorr, tank you

gurramok

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Being totally serious, your view of teachers is not conducive to giving your child the best start in education. The best education a child can have is seeing his/her teachers and parents working together for his benefit, preparing him for the real world. If you don't want to affect your 'kid's' education, the best place would be to quit complaining about your educational partner (that's right...the teacher is your partner). And your educational partner can try to make sure that your child's class environment is safe and not over-crowded so that she can gain the maximum benefit from the Irish educational system.

I was in a class of 34 in Primary school and i turned out well educational wise, explain that one?

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

I was in a class of 34 in Primary school and i turned out well educational wise, explain that one?

What? Explain how your over-stressed teacher did a fantastic job with you? I hope she/he got 60k a year and six months holidays!!

But then again, maybe you were lucky enough to be in the middle standard. Can you remember the 'dopey' kids from your class? Or the super brainy ones? Chances are your teacher probably didn't have the time nor the resources to attend to these children's needs as she/he was that busy attending to the 'average' (I love that word!!). I'm not saying you're average, I'm talking about the average that would have been in your class

The curriculum was updated in 1999 to accommodate those children who were falling between the cracks. Now with cutbacks, the children outside the average will once again start slipping between the cracks.

gaeilgegrinds

Regarding notes, someone said surely I don't do new ones each year. My students prepare many essays on topics in the news, they obviously change. Plus students grasp different concepts different years depending on my varying factors, Also I have another subject...

gurramok

I'lllearnye wrote: »

What? Explain how your over-stressed teacher did a fantastic job with you? I hope she/he got 60k a year and six months holidays!!

But then again, maybe you were lucky enough to be in the middle standard. Can you remember the 'dopey' kids from your class? Or the super brainy ones? Chances are your teacher probably didn't have the time nor the resources to attend to these children's needs as she/he was that busy attending to the 'average' (I love that word!!). I'm not saying you're average, I'm talking about the average that would have been in your class

The curriculum was updated in 1999 to accommodate those children who were falling between the cracks. Now with cutbacks, the children outside the average will once again start slipping between the cracks.

I was a kid of the 80's during the last economic collapse.

My teachers managed very well in a class of 34 to cater for every child yet a teacher today cannot manage. It seems to be a case of bad management in todays schools.

Has standards of teaching fallen that much?!

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

I was a kid of the 80's during the last economic collapse.

My teachers managed very well in a class of 34 to cater for every child yet a teacher today cannot manage. It seems to be a case of bad management in todays schools.

Has standards of teaching fallen that much?!

How do you know that the teacher catered for every child? How do you know that the teacher managed to give every child the maximum benefit of the Irish educational system?
It is a teacher's job to see the best in very child and help him/her realise his/her maximum potential. This cannot be done in an over-crowded classroom-the teacher might be able to teach the class, but not in such a way that every child realises his/her true potential.
It' s not a case of bad management-the teacher's job has changed, the curriculum has changed. I never did P.E. when I was in primary school, but nowadays it's a standard part of the curriculum. Same goes for SPHE, Science, Music (these might all have been done unofficially, and unofficial means 'no paperwork required')

gurramok

How do i know? I was there!!

The teacher managed to get the maximum out of every pupil, even the slow learners and all.

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

How do i know? I was there!!

The teacher managed to get the maximum out of every pupil, even the slow learners and all.

And what are all your classmates doing now? Have you spoken to them about your teacher and asked them what they thought of him/her? Did you act as an unofficial side-kick to your teacher by going around doing paper assessments of all the other children? Even for me, an adult working in the classroom, I would not rely on my memory when assessing the children.

Being 'there' does not qualify you to know what a teacher's job entails. Working as a teacher qualifies you to know what a teacher's job entails. If I go to the doctor/dentist/hairdresser/sit on a train commuting every day, it doesn't qualify me to know what a doctor/dentist/hairdresser/ticket collector/train-driver's job entails.

gurramok

Most did think the teacher did an adequate job in a class of 34, some turned out academicaly excellent like myself :P

FlutterinBantam

BubbleWrap85 wrote: »

Boys to be honest, you seem to be standing alone at the moment. The narrow minded views expressed by both of you are disappointing. Giving each other virtual high 5's by whore thanks means nothing. Teachers are not out for public sympathy. I couldn't give a rats arse what you think of me or any other teacher. You mean NOTHING to me. I care about the children in my class, and do my best. I can sleep easily at night knowing I've put in a good days work

Both of you obviously still earn enough to have your broadband connection, which would be considered a luxury, so I don't know what your problem is. You're still getting your wage also, and you'd have us believe that it's a fairly good wage.

Teachers united. I'm more motivated now to strike for a bit of extra dosh, just to rub it in yer faces Keep watching this space!

I think if you read today's papers ,have listened to this mornings news radio, not too many taxpayers support the teachers.

If I could answer the "what is your problem question",it's that the public know, that's us by the way, fcukers like me,yes me,hard to believe isn't it?

Fcukers like me ,and a lot of others;)can see through you guys.


We are not back in the dark ages poppets.

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

Most did think the teacher did an adequate job in a class of 34, some turned out academicaly excellent like myself :P

'Most' doesn't cut it. If I said to my supervisor 'most of the children are doing well', I'd get an earful. What about the children who didn't turn out to be successful? Or is it just convenient to forget about them?
My job, and I take it very seriously, is to make sure that 'every' child reaches his/her potential, not 'most'. With cutbacks, I will not be able to do my job at the level I would like to do it.

The Department of Education set out a new curriculum in 1999,with targets to be met by every teacher. These targets will now not be met due to cutbacks. And these aren't just any old targets, certainly not the 'all important' financial targets, I'm talking about the future of the children in this country.

FlutterinBantam

Laudable ambitions to be sure.

However you cost too much right now pal.

gurramok

I'lllearnye wrote: »

'Most' doesn't cut it. If I said to my supervisor 'most of the children are doing well', I'd get an earful. What about the children who didn't turn out to be successful? Or is it just convenient to forget about them?
My job, and I take it very seriously, is to make sure that 'every' child reaches his/her potential, not 'most'. With cutbacks, I will not be able to do my job at the level I would like to do it.

The ones who did not achieve good results were catered for and turned out better for it academically. The time was here for it hence the system worked good.

Anyway, i have to go and sun myself, i don't get the whole summer to do that like a teacher does

I'lllearnye

gurramok wrote: »

The ones who did not achieve good results were catered for and turned out better for it academically. The time was here for it hence the system worked good.

Were catered for? Very vague altogether. I'd get an earful for that too.
And I must say it was very good of you to give up some of your educational time to help your teacher in assessing your classmates.

I'lllearnye

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Laudable ambitions to be sure.

However you cost too much right now pal.

It's sad but true, in today's Ireland, education costs are too much to bear.
I'm assuming you're worried about the education of children now, that you're not being personal and that you wouldn't like to see me losing my job.*



*You're not fooling me as to what the tone of your post implied

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Being totally serious, your view of teachers is not conducive to giving your child the best start in education. The best education a child can have is seeing his/her teachers and parents working together for his benefit, preparing him for the real world. If you don't want to affect your 'kid's' education, the best place would be to quit complaining about your educational partner (that's right...the teacher is your partner). And your educational partner can try to make sure that your child's class environment is safe and not over-crowded so that she can gain the maximum benefit from the Irish educational system.

That's exactly what my daughter see's a perfectly good relationship between her teacher and I. Her teacher has my full support and I have NO problem NONE with my daughters teacher. READ THIS LAST PARAGRAPH SLOWLY AND LET IT SINK IN.

The problem will arise when the partner in this relationship decides to threaten my daughter's education and future this is where she will loose my support, but all my daughter will see is a good working relationship.

Do you think I sit down all day screaming and shouting about teachers in front of her?

Or is your used to everyone around you screaming at kids that you think everyone does it?

Cop on to yourself, step into the real world and stop hiding behind kids backs grow a back bone.

FlutterinBantam

I think at long last the taxpayer has cottoned on to the ass reaming we are getting from the public service.

Not saying they don't do a good job, but in the current situation, value for money is all that counts and the public service costs us far too much.

Index linked pensions, almost unsackable positions,hey,was there ever a better way to stifle ambition.

Game is up lads and lassies,this recession has stripped the flowery backdrop from the veneer of cost effectiveness and the debacle of benchmarking when there was not productive dividend either demanded or given.

Game is up,time to admit it lads and lassies.

You can't fool us any longer.

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

'Most' doesn't cut it. If I said to my supervisor 'most of the children are doing well', I'd get an earful. What about the children who didn't turn out to be successful? Or is it just convenient to forget about them?
My job, and I take it very seriously, is to make sure that 'every' child reaches his/her potential, not 'most'. With cutbacks, I will not be able to do my job at the level I would like to do it.

The Department of Education set out a new curriculum in 1999,with targets to be met by every teacher. These targets will now not be met due to cutbacks. And these aren't just any old targets, certainly not the 'all important' financial targets, I'm talking about the future of the children in this country.

What do you consider to be a reasonable class size?

If sizes are reduced to the levels you will personally guarantee not most will do well that EVERYONE of them students regardless of "social class" area etc you will make guarantee EVERYONE of them does well?

that's a serious bold claim.

FlutterinBantam

I'lllearnye wrote: »

It's sad but true, in today's Ireland, education costs are too much to bear.
I'm assuming you're worried about the education of children now, that you're not being personal and that you wouldn't like to see me losing my job.*



*You're not fooling me as to what the tone of your post implied

Pretty clumsy attempt at irony pal.

You need to drop your prices buddy, that's what everybody else is doing.

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

That's exactly what my daughter see's a perfectly good relationship between her teacher and I. Her teacher has my full support and I have NO problem NONE with my daughters teacher. READ THIS LAST PARAGRAPH SLOWLY AND LET IT SINK IN.

The problem will arise when the partner in this relationship decides to threaten my daughter's education and future this is where she will loose my support, but all my daughter will see is a good working relationship.

Do you think I sit down all day screaming and shouting about teachers in front of her?

Or is your used to everyone around you screaming at kids that you think everyone does it?

Cop on to yourself, step into the real world and stop hiding behind kids backs grow a back bone.

I don't think you go about screaming all day about it. Your post about your daughter telling you what the teacher does in class was a great insight to me, at the time, of how you view teachers. Also the fact you side-stepped my argument to complain about my punctuation led me to believe that what I thought was true. I apologise for saying that you don't have a good relationship with your child's teacher.

LET THE PARAGRAPH SLOWLY SINK IN? You do know that writing in capitals is the equivalent of shouting (or screaming)? That PARAGRAPH is the first time you addressed what I said, so I don't need to let it SINK IN. I'm glad to hear you have a good relationship with your child's teacher. Your child's best interests are at heart.

You call a teacher looking for smaller class sizes a threat to your daughter's education? I'd say it's the opposite.

joseph brand

gurramok wrote: »

Absolute ballax. Have you seen the salary scales?

On your logic, that petrol station attendant deserves more to be paid than a teacher as after all that petrol station attendant faces severe violence more than a teacher and yet puts up with it for minimum wage.

Your type is hard to be the read???

Also, stop comparing teachers, (well educated, college grads) with low paid anybody jobs. Jobs which require no qualification. Why not compare the taste of an apple versus licking cement, it's just ludicrous.

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

I don't think you go about screaming all day about it. Your post about your daughter telling you what the teacher does in class was a great insight to me, at the time, of how you view teachers. Also the fact you side-stepped my argument to complain about my punctuation led me to believe that what I thought was true. I apologise for saying that you don't have a good relationship with your child's teacher.

LET THE PARAGRAPH SLOWLY SINK IN? You do know that writing in capitals is the equivalent of shouting (or screaming)? That PARAGRAPH is the first time you addressed what I said, so I don't need to let it SINK IN. I'm glad to hear you have a good relationship with your child's teacher. Your child's best interests are at heart.

You call a teacher looking for smaller class sizes a threat to your daughter's education? I'd say it's the opposite.

I have no problem in looking for smaller class sizes I'm ALL FOR IT.

I just find your claim that it will turn from MOST to ALL based on it.

it will still be MOST but the MOST will get a better education.

Now the following is very important, so again, perk up in your chair and open your eyes.

After reading something here yesterday I called my daughter to have a chat with daddy.

The light of my life, my darling daughter, you know when you're in school

her: Yes dad.
me: Your doing work at your desk.
her: yes dad.
me. Does the teacher ever sit at her desk working too?
her. of course dad.

now this doesn't suggest anything it doesn't prove anything. but this sounds very much like when i was in school, there was parts of the day most days were i would work and the teacher would be doing something at her desk obviosuly then i had no idea what it was

now, my daughter could be liying about a stupid small thing that she has nothing to gain from, or she has described to a T exactly what happened when i went to school

now the statment here yesterday was that the teacher didn't have time to do anything at her desk anymore because they have to listen out for conversation on ronaldo :rolleyes:

Someone is liying.

I don't know who, but someone.

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

What do you consider to be a reasonable class size?

If sizes are reduced to the levels you will personally guarantee not most will do well that EVERYONE of them students regardless of "social class" area etc you will make guarantee EVERYONE of them does well?

that's a serious bold claim.

It's my job as a teacher to make sure I uphold this. I'm not doing this out of some mis-guided 'I'm giving up my life for the children' way...my teacher training is geared to make sure I do this. It's part of the job.

Department of Education say that classes are supposed to have 27/28 children. Add one more child, the other children suffer the effects, whether it means I don't get a chance to do reading with Mary, or I can't assess John on his hand-writing skill, or I don't have enough resources to allow the children to approach a new topic in a hands-on fashion (also a big part of the curriculum). All these missed opportunites of working one-on-one with children really do add up.

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

It's my job as a teacher to make sure I uphold this. I'm not doing this out of some mis-guided 'I'm giving up my life for the children' way...my teacher training is geared to make sure I do this. It's part of the job.

Department of Education say that classes are supposed to have 27/28 children. Add one more child, the other children suffer the effects, whether it means I don't get a chance to do reading with Mary, or I can't assess John on his hand-writing skill, or I don't have enough resources to allow the children to approach a new topic in a hands-on fashion (also a big part of the curriculum). All these missed opportunites of working one-on-one with children really do add up.

again you seem to quote the DOE when it suits

when we quote the DOE wage scales you say they're wrong.

when asked about class sizes instead of your opinion you tell me what the DOE state.

I'm finding it difficult when on one hand you say the DOE are disillusioned and the other hand you quote them to prove a point

now which is it

FlutterinBantam

Govt. funked the big move of PS reform.

This monstrosity have grown out of all proportion and cannot be sustained.

Why do people not understand this.

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

I have no problem in looking for smaller class sizes I'm ALL FOR IT.

I just find your claim that it will turn from MOST to ALL based on it.

it will still be MOST but the MOST will get a better education.

Now the following is very important, so again, perk up in your chair and open your eyes.

After reading something here yesterday I called my daughter to have a chat with daddy.

The light of my life, my darling daughter, you know when you're in school

her: Yes dad.
me: Your doing work at your desk.
her: yes dad.
me. Does the teacher ever sit at her desk working too?
her. of course dad.

now this doesn't suggest anything it doesn't prove anything. but this sounds very much like when i was in school, there was parts of the day most days were i would work and the teacher would be doing something at her desk obviosuly then i had no idea what it was

now, my daughter could be liying about a stupid small thing that she has nothing to gain from, or she has described to a T exactly what happened when i went to school

now the statment here yesterday was that the teacher didn't have time to do anything at her desk anymore because they have to listen out for conversation on ronaldo :rolleyes:

Someone is liying.

I don't know who, but someone.

Why do you patronise me by asking me to perk up in my chair? What gives you the impression I don't understand what you're saying?

Your daughter's teacher is not doing her job if she's sitting at her desk all day. Your daughter said that her teacher sits at her desk, did you ask her for how long? Is it six hours, 20secs, two hours?

Part of the job is to constantly assess children so you can prepare lesson plans based on those assessments. I know exactly what that teacher means (the teacher who said he/she has to listen out for Ronaldo conversations). You have to constantly watch the children to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing.

So you think someone is lying? I assume you think all the posters (teacher posters) here are lying, otherwise why would ask your daughter what her teacher does in school? Why don't you just ask the teacher? And have you organised a meeting with this teacher to talk to her about her lackadaisical approach to teaching?

I'm amazed you've a good relationship with a teacher who doesn't seem to be doing the job she's paid for i.e. educating your child.

I'lllearnye

ntlbell wrote: »

again you seem to quote the DOE when it suits

when we quote the DOE wage scales you say they're wrong.

when asked about class sizes instead of your opinion you tell me what the DOE state.

I'm finding it difficult when on one hand you say the DOE are disillusioned and the other hand you quote them to prove a point

now which is it

You asked me what class sizes should be. Of course I'm going to refer to DOE. I don't hold the purse strings and so can't dictate class sizes. Come on, that's just picking at nothing. For every child to reach their maximum potential, they would need to have one teacher each, but that's obviously not going to happen in a public school system.

FlutterinBantam

All side issues boys and girls.

Big issue,we cannot afford you in the current situation.

Ya gotta get real and take cuts and produce efficiencies.

Basic stuff really.

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

You asked me what class sizes should be. Of course I'm going to refer to DOE. I don't hold the purse strings and so can't dictate class sizes. Come on, that's just picking at nothing. For every child to reach their maximum potential, they would need to have one teacher each, but that's obviously not going to happen in a public school system.

I think I asked you what you think they should be.

e.g. how many people could you comfortably manage and provide for them all?

in your opinion

ntlbell

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Why do you patronise me by asking me to perk up in my chair? What gives you the impression I don't understand what you're saying?

Because you constantly pick up what I say wrong like accusing me of using my child as a spy, so i wanted to make it very clear for you the situation.

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Your daughter's teacher is not doing her job if she's sitting at her desk all day. Your daughter said that her teacher sits at her desk, did you ask her for how long? Is it six hours, 20secs, two hours?

I think she is doing her job, I don't expect a teacher to be teaching for every minute of the day i don't see how a child could take that in.

I've also spoke to friends who are teachers and say the same thing there is times during the day where there's time it may not be loads of times but if you add it up over a month you can get plenty of work done

this sounds perfectly acceptable to me

I'lllearnye wrote: »

Part of the job is to constantly assess children so you can prepare lesson plans based on those assessments. I know exactly what that teacher means (the teacher who said he/she has to listen out for Ronaldo conversations). You have to constantly watch the children to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing.

surley if a class is doing some "questions" or something you can be available for questions do some work at your desk and scan the room? is it really that difficult? all my teachers throughout all my years were very capable of doing it? and lots of them are still teaching today?

I'lllearnye wrote: »

So you think someone is lying? I assume you think all the posters (teacher posters) here are lying, otherwise why would ask your daughter what her teacher does in school? Why don't you just ask the teacher? And have you organised a meeting with this teacher to talk to her about her lackadaisical approach to teaching?

I'm not assuming anything, someone is telling porkys.

I don't think she has a lackadaisical approach? I think if she can get some work done during a lull during the day when kids are working on something or answering questions or doing whatever that they could use this time to do something else?

after what i have read here, i will be asking her.

I'lllearnye wrote: »

I'm amazed you've a good relationship with a teacher who doesn't seem to be doing the job she's paid for i.e. educating your child.

i think she's doing an excellent job, I have NO problems with her at all NONE see? you didn't let that sink in now did you?

I'm very happy with my childs progress and speaking to other parents at the school they're all very happy

so my question is, if her teacher can do it? my friends can do it?

why can the rest of you not do it?

FlutterinBantam

Hmmmmm

They still haven't learned.

Forget class sizes,forget holidays,forget conditions.

Bottom line.

This economy cannot afford you

FlutterinBantam

What people cannot understand.

Teachers do a great job, there are many dedicated and talented people in their ranks.

They just cost too much in today's scenario.

Country cannot afford those payscales and conditions.

Dudess

Agreed. As you can see, I'm defending teachers to the bitter end... but there is just no point in striking in the current economic conditions. It's futile. The money ain't there - and that's the case throughout the public sector.