Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

When's the last time you were in a school? Sorry I mean a Secondary School? I left in 2005 and I couldn't get out of my school quick enough. Students are out of control, I've seen 1st years barely up to your hip trying to start on 6th years, spitting on them and having the balls to slag a 6th year twice their size. And that's just what they do to other students.

I've seen them punch teachers in the balls, I've seen them square up to teachers who have been feared and respected by students for decades and I've seen them say vulgar things such as "sugar tits" to their teacher. They have no fear, they go wild in class and it's impossible to control them. The parents don't care, they think their children are angels and that the teachers must be victimisng them. Just recently I heard three 3rd years were expelled for sexually harassing a teacher.

What I'm trying to say is that it is a tough job, an increasingly difficult job and a job where students are becoming increasingly worse when it comes to behaviour. You don't have to worry about it being an "unsackable" job because they are already walking away from it in numbers due to stress and having nervous breakdowns. They are not paid enough IMO.

when was the last time you were a bouncer in a night club?

what has the lack of control in the classroom got to do with anything

THIS IS NOT ABOUT STRESS

IT'S NOT ABOUT WILD KIDS

IT'S ABOUT MONEY

skyhighflyer

ntlbell wrote: »

you do realise we have a minimum wage yes?

3e an hour would ilegal?

You do realise that the Irish minimum wage does not apply in Poland yes - as I said above, I'm talking about the factory that Dell moved to in Poland. Jesus :rolleyes:

ntlbell

skyhighflyer wrote: »

You do realise that the Irish minimum wage does not apply in Poland yes - as I said above, I'm talking about the factory that Dell moved to in Poland. Jesus :rolleyes:

then you have my sincere apologies.

What has Dell in Poland got to do with anything?

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

when was the last time you were a bouncer in a night club?

what has the lack of control in the classroom got to do with anything

THIS IS NOT ABOUT STRESS

IT'S NOT ABOUT WILD KIDS

IT'S ABOUT MONEY

I'm telling you why they deserve every penny they get.

skyhighflyer

ntlbell wrote: »

then you have my sincere apologies.

What has Dell in Poland got to do with anything?

No bother.

If you look back over the thread, someone brought it up. Don't want to drag this futher OT than it already has been though :pac:

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm telling you why they deserve every penny they get.

we don't pay people based on the shiote they have to accept

there is tons of jobs were you have to take utter crap and get shot at

e.g. the guards

they get paid less?

if teachers want to go on strike because they're all getting PUNCHED i'll go out on strike with them

gurramok

skyhighflyer wrote: »

It's a difficult question. While it may well adversely affect the education of the children affected, I also believe it's immoral for the government to increase class sizes and reduce special needs funding in order to bail out bankers and property developers.

Yeh, to hell with the kids, we want more money for our own pockets that doesn't exist. Nice attitude.

Rayan

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Teachers aren't responsible for this crisis. The government sold this country and everyone in it to a small elite of property developers and everyone, whether via private sector workers' wage cuts and reduced hours, or public sector pension levies is paying the price for something that wasn't of their making.

I'm not responsible for this crisis either, yet I still had to take a 12% pay cut in January (private company). Do you know what my manager would say if I told him I wasn't accepting the cut because I didn't cause the crisis? Something along the lines of "Fine, goodbye then". This is how things go in the real world.

I agree with ntlbell, the assaults excuse is mostly rubbish. Why is it only being mentioned now? Why not over the last 10 years when teachers wages were rocketing? Why were there no strikes about all these "assaults" before now?

A brave young garda was killed in the line of duty only a few weeks ago, THAT is a dangerous job. Teachers? hah.

gurramok

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What I'm trying to say is that it is a tough job, an increasingly difficult job and a job where students are becoming increasingly worse when it comes to behaviour. You don't have to worry about it being an "unsackable" job because they are already walking away from it in numbers due to stress and having nervous breakdowns. They are not paid enough IMO.

Absolute ballax. Have you seen the salary scales?

On your logic, that petrol station attendant deserves more to be paid than a teacher as after all that petrol station attendant faces severe violence more than a teacher and yet puts up with it for minimum wage.

skyhighflyer

gurramok wrote: »

Yeh, to hell with the kids, we want more money for our own pockets that doesn't exist. Nice attitude.

Its not my attitude. I will concede that whatever the teacher's unions say, there is no way this action can go ahead without affecting childrens' education. What I will say is that front-line services like the guards, teachers, and nurses shouldn't be affected when there's plenty of fat to trim in other areas: junior ministers, government salaries and expenses, the 56000 administrators in the HSE and the FAS budget to name four offhand.

ntlbell

Rayan wrote: »

Why is it only being mentioned now? Why not over the last 10 years when teachers wages were rocketing? Why were there no strikes about all these "assaults" before now?.

this is the problem i have.

they wouldn't go out on strike to get better conditions for the kids etc

but as soon as you hit thier pocket their out

the rep on pat kenny this morning bought a 300k house in 2007 and was complaining she only had 93e a week to spend on socialising and clothes :rolleyes:

HINT: IT'S THE 300K DOG BOX YOU BOUGHT

Handsome Bob

gurramok wrote: »

Absolute ballax. Have you seen the salary scales?

On your logic, that petrol station attendant deserves more to be paid than a teacher as after all that petrol station attendant faces severe violence more than a teacher and yet puts up with it for minimum wage.

Oh I'm sorry, I assumed that people would read what I said within the context that these professionals actually have the task of educating our children. As well as having to answer to other parents who are angry over their children's education suffering due to other's making the class a zoo or because their kids are being bullied.

ntlbell

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Its not my attitude. I will concede that whatever the teacher's unions say, there is no way this action can go ahead without affecting childrens' education. What I will say is that front-line services like the guards, teachers, and nurses shouldn't be affected when there's plenty of fat to trim in other areas: junior ministers, government salaries and expenses, the 56000 administrators in the HSE and the FAS budget to name four offhand.

No one would disagree with you there is plenty of fat to be cut

but that doesn't justify affecting young kids futures

they have 4 months a year off in some cases

picket the dail (while they're getting paid to do so) for the 4 months and save the kids

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Oh I'm sorry, I assumed that people would read what I said within the context that these professionals actually have the task of educating our children. As well as having to answer to other parents who are angry over their children's education suffering due to other's making the class a zoo or because their kids are being bullied.

but these are all problems that need to be dealt with

making the problem worse by refusing to teach the kids is not the answer

is this really that hard to understand?

skyhighflyer

ntlbell wrote: »

but these are all problems that need to be dealt with

making the problem worse by refusing to teach the kids is not the answer

is this really that hard to understand?

Unfortunately the only effective mechanism by which to deal with these problems is by going on strike - as I've detailed above, a Dail protest during the summer holidays (when most of the Dail will be off anyway) won't make any difference.

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

but these are all problems that need to be dealt with

making the problem worse by refusing to teach the kids is not the answer

is this really that hard to understand?

What is the answer so? C'mon tell me ntlbell, what other way can these teachers highlight the inadequacies they are working with? Striking may be bad for the short term, but it is a necessary evil in order to secure the long term quality of the service that they provide.

gurramok

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Its not my attitude. I will concede that whatever the teacher's unions say, there is no way this action can go ahead without affecting childrens' education. What I will say is that front-line services like the guards, teachers, and nurses shouldn't be affected when there's plenty of fat to trim in other areas: junior ministers, government salaries and expenses, the 56000 administrators in the HSE and the FAS budget to name four offhand.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Oh I'm sorry, I assumed that people would read what I said within the context that these professionals actually have the task of educating our children. As well as having to answer to other parents who are angry over their children's education suffering due to other's making the class a zoo or because their kids are being bullied.

Stop using 5yr old kids as pawns to get money for themselves.

gurramok

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What is the answer so? C'mon tell me ntlbell, what other way can these teachers highlight the inadequacies they are working with? Striking may be bad for the short term, but it is a necessary evil in order to secure the long term quality of the service that they provide.

ROFL.

Engage the public at large on their supposed grievances, its called persuasion to get public support.

Teachers can well afford 3 months of striking, marching, petitioning to get their invalid points across.

They won't do that as they know they are wrong.

Ace2007

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What is the answer so? C'mon tell me ntlbell, what other way can these teachers highlight the inadequacies they are working with? Striking may be bad for the short term, but it is a necessary evil in order to secure the long term quality of the service that they provide.

Ok why don't they wait to the summer months to protest - no kids are at school so no one is going to miss out in education - and the teachers are getting paid. but wait - how many teachers do you know that will actually meet up and protest during the summer - 3/4 months holidays which they get paid for - are there any other industires that employess get 3/4 months paid holidays.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What is the answer so? C'mon tell me ntlbell, what other way can these teachers highlight the inadequacies they are working with? Striking may be bad for the short term, but it is a necessary evil in order to secure the long term quality of the service that they provide.

What you seem to be failing to realise is.

they're NOT striking because of the conditions, they're NOT striking because a small minority of kids are punching the head of teachers

they're striking because of the hit there taken the wages?

do you see/understand?

Jesus Juice

I'm sorry but all I can think about reading this thread is PURPLEMONKEYDISHWASHER!:pac:

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

What you seem to be failing to realise is.

they're NOT striking because of the conditions, they're NOT striking because a small minority of kids are punching the head of teachers

they're striking because of the hit there taken the wages?

do you see/understand?

I don't think you understand ntlbell. They are taking a hit in wages and are angry because of the service they are expected to provide while at the same time deal with the hostile environment of the classroom. They simply feel that their wages will not be good enough in comparison to the task that they must achieve. It's not black and white ntlbell, they aren't protesting the hit in wages for the craic, it's connected to the job they are expected to do.

Ok why don't they wait to the summer months to protest

Eh because it's futile? They are using students as leveredge, I am not entirely comfortable with that. It's a bad deal for students in the short term, but it is a necessary evil in order to ensure the long term standard of the service that they provide. The last thing the education system needs is pissed off and demoralised teachers.

ibarelycare

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I don't think you understand ntlbell. They are taking a hit in wages and are angry because of the service they are expected to provide while at the same time deal with the hostile environment of the classroom. They simply feel that their wages will not be good enough in comparison to the task that they must achieve. It's not black and white ntlbell, they aren't protesting the hit in wages for the craic, it's connected to the job they are expected to do

I've taken a hit in my wages recently (10%) and I'm still expected to provide the same service as I did before. I just get on with it...we're in a RECESSION. Also, as someone already said, this "abuse in the classroom" issue is only being brought up now as an excuse and it's certainly not standing.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I don't think you understand ntlbell. They are taking a hit in wages and are angry because of the service they are expected to provide while at the same time deal with the hostile environment of the classroom. They simply feel that their wages will not be good enough in comparison to the task that they must achieve. It's not black and white ntlbell, they aren't protesting the hit in wages for the craic, it's connected to the job they are expected to do.

and as i pointed out everyone has to deal with certain conditions in jobs

they have SEPERATED into TWO campaigns ONE will be fore CONDITIONS (NO STRIKE FOR THIS)

ONE for PAY (WILL STRIKE FOR THIS)

what does that tell you?

Terry

ntlbell wrote: »

when was the last time you were a bouncer in a night club?

what has the lack of control in the classroom got to do with anything

THIS IS NOT ABOUT STRESS

IT'S NOT ABOUT WILD KIDS

IT'S ABOUT MONEY

Really? Teachers are like nightclub bouncers? What type of school did you go to?

gurramok wrote: »

Absolute ballax. Have you seen the salary scales?

On your logic, that petrol station attendant deserves more to be paid than a teacher as after all that petrol station attendant faces severe violence more than a teacher and yet puts up with it for minimum wage.

The petrol station dude isn't responsible for educating children.

Teachers are entitled to what they currently earn in my opinion.
They have to put up with all sorts of crap from the same people every day of the week and little Timmy's mother will fight to the death before admitting that her son is a little bollix.

Would any of you teach for less than 35K?
I ****ing know that I wouldn't.

As for striking during the Summer holidays?
That's the most retarded thing I have ever read in AH, and that's saying a lot.
Actually, the first person who suggested that is having their post linked to in my sig so that others will see the most retarded post I have ever read.

If I need to explain why a strike during the Summer holidays is ridiculous, then you really, really need to think more about what you are proposing.

gurramok

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I don't think you understand ntlbell. They are taking a hit in wages and are angry because of the service they are expected to provide while at the same time deal with the hostile environment of the classroom. They simply feel that their wages will not be good enough in comparison to the task that they must achieve. It's not black and white ntlbell, they aren't protesting the hit in wages for the craic, it's connected to the job they are expected to do.

That's dog poo.

Everyone in school had classes that were disruptive and other classes where the teacher had control.
A couple of teachers in my old school were so good at controlling pupils behaviour that they got excellent academic results out of the pupils.
Another couple of teachers were so poor at controlling the class, teaching standards fell for that subject.

If they cannot manage a class, they should not be in the job in the first place. Keep the good teachers and get rid of the bad ones...oops we can't really sack 'em any at all, one wonders why!

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Eh because it's futile? They are using students as leveredge, I am not entirely comfortable with that. It's a bad deal for students in the short term, but it is a necessary evil in order to ensure the long term standard of the service that they provide. The last thing the education system needs is pissed off and demoralised teachers.

Using students for their own ends, lovely. You'd swear they were poorly paid the way you say it.

ntlbell

Terry wrote: »

Really? Teachers are like nightclub bouncers? What type of school did you go to?

It doesn't suit you Terry.

The point is very clear.

Bouncers,guards,<insert dangerous job> have to take serious amounts of crap but teachers pay is not related to the amount of wild kids they have in classroom if it is then surley teachers with mroe should be paid more?

it's utter nonsense and you trying to be a smart arse about it is not helping.

lets try and keep this conversation slightly intelligent.

darkman2

Did teachers go in to the job expecting equitable treatment from Students?:rolleyes: Grow some backbone.

Handsome Bob

ibarelycare wrote: »

I've taken a hit in my wages recently (10%) and I'm still expected to provide the same service as I did before. I just get on with it...we're in a RECESSION. Also, as someone already said, this "abuse in the classroom" issue is only being brought up now as an excuse and it's certainly not standing.

Why does it not stand? Because you say so and choose to believe it's not happening? As I said already, we are in a recession, but the last thing the education system needs is pissed off and demoralised teachers who don't see the value in going into their classroom in the morning.

gurramok wrote: »

ROFL.

Engage the public at large on their supposed grievances, its called persuasion to get public support.

Yes, because teachers are the only ones who have ever chosen the method of striking over engaging the public on their supposed grievances. Angered parents have already used the means of the media to bring the issue to the public of spending cuts in special needs classrooms and for those in need of allowances to afford school necessities. They have appealed to the public, and it hasn't worked. What makes you think teachers appealing to the public over their wage cuts will have any better results?

Teachers can well afford 3 months of striking, marching, petitioning to get their invalid points across.

As I said, I'm not entirely comfortable with students being used as leveredge, but striking in the Summer is futile, absolutely useless.

ntlbell

darkman2 wrote: »

Did teachers go in to the job expecting equitable treatment from Students?:rolleyes: Grow some backbone.

by the few they've had on RTE radio i think they went in expecting to be able to buy 300k houses and investment properties in croatia and still be left with money to socialise and buy clothes.

They were her exact words

they're really doing nothing to help their case

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Why does it not stand? Because you say so and choose to believe it's not happening? As I said already, we are in a recession, but the last thing the education system needs is pissed off and demoralised teachers who don't see the value in going into their classroom in the morning.



Yes, because teachers are the only ones who have ever chosen the method of striking over engaging the public on their supposed grievances. Angered parents have already used the means of the media to bring the issue of spending cuts in special needs classrooms and for those in need of allowances to afford school necessities. They have appealed to the public, and it hasn't worked. What makes you think teachers appealing to the public over their wage cuts will have any better results?



As I said, I'm not entirely comfortable with students being used as leveredge, but striking in the Summer is futile, absolutely useless.

since you keep bringing it up

the few that have striked so far haven;t been teaching OUR kids and affecting your people's education

they've just made you a bit late for work

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

It doesn't suit you Terry.

The point is very clear.

Bouncers,guards,<insert dangerous job> have to take serious amounts of crap but teachers pay is not related to the amount of wild kids they have in classroom if it is then surley teachers with mroe should be paid more?

it's utter nonsense and you trying to be a smart arse about it is not helping.

lets try and keep this conversation slightly intelligent.

Yet the difference is bouncers and guards are allowed defend themselves. Whereas teachers who are attacked just have to take it, because their hands are tied and if they put their hands on a student, they are opening a world of legal and professional ramifications for themselves.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Yet the difference is bouncers and guards are allowed defend themselves. Whereas teachers who are attacked just have to take it, because their hands are tied and if they put their hands on a student, they are opening a world of legal and professional ramifications for themselves.

No the teacher does not have to take it.

The child should be removed from the school

that's a localised problem with the school or principal

it's not WHY their STRIKING

hello?

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

No the teacher does not have to take it.

The child should be removed from the school

that's a localised problem with the school or principal

it's not WHY their STRIKING

hello?

LOL how many times do I have to say to you? They are striking because there wages are cut. Why do you think they are doing that? For the craic? They are striking the cut in their wages because they feel a cut is not acceptable in comparison to the crap they have to put up with. Such as being assaulted by students when they cannot defend themselves unless they want to threatened with legal proceedings that wwill harm their professional life. Such as being answerable to angry parents unhappy with the obstruction of their child's education due to other students. Such as having to deal with an absolute zoo of a classroom where students have no respect and are uncontrollable.

gurramok

Terry wrote: »

The petrol station dude isn't responsible for educating children.

Teachers are entitled to what they currently earn in my opinion.
They have to put up with all sorts of crap from the same people every day of the week and little Timmy's mother will fight to the death before admitting that her son is a little bollix.

Would any of you teach for less than 35K?
I ****ing know that I wouldn't.

As for striking during the Summer holidays?
That's the most retarded thing I have ever read in AH, and that's saying a lot.
Actually, the first person who suggested that is having their post linked to in my sig so that others will see the most retarded post I have ever read.

If I need to explain why a strike during the Summer holidays is ridiculous, then you really, really need to think more about what you are proposing.

Here we go, making a special case for teachers as they put it with crap from in this case(strike) a bunch of 5-12yrolds in primary school. That petrol station attendant is also part of the economy, we need them for our cars, they are a cog in the system just like teachers are.

35k is NOT the average pay of a teacher, thats for a teacher for a couple of years of service including allowances and as we know the vast majority of teachers are not new hence your pay argument is invalid.

Have a peep http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/teacher_scales.htm

Yes, strike on summer holidays, thats if they care about primary school kids at all. What do you think they do in those 3 months, work or not?

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Yes, because teachers are the only ones who have ever chosen the method of striking over engaging the public on their supposed grievances. Angered parents have already used the means of the media to bring the issue of spending cuts in special needs classrooms and for those in need of allowances to afford school necessities. They have appealed to the public, and it hasn't worked. What makes you think teachers appealing to the public over their wage cuts will have any better results?

As I said, I'm not entirely comfortable with students being used as leveredge, but striking in the Summer is futile, absolutely useless.

They appealed to the public and it didn't work, have you asked why? Hint, some answers are in this thread.

So in Sept, we're gonna have extremely angry parents who see their kids education been used in a vile way. As you said, you are not comfy with that, lets hope you see sense that you are 100% uncomfy with it.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

LOL how many times do I have to say to you? They are striking because there wages are cut. Why do you think they are doing that? For the craic? They are striking the cut in their wages because they feel a cut is not acceptable in comparison to the crap they have to put up with. Such as being assaulted by students when they cannot defend themselves unless they want to threatened with legal proceedings that wwill harm their professional life. Such as being answerable to angry parents unhappy with the obstruction of their child's education due to other students. Such as having to deal with an absolute zoo of a classroom where students have no respect and are uncontrollable.

how many times do i have to say to you.

they have broke it into TWO campaigns


TWO

now watch

PAY

CONDITIONS

for PAY (THEY ARE GOING TO GO ON STRIKE)

for CONDITIONS (THEY ARE NOT GOING TO STRIKE - BUT "CAMPAIGN"

two completely different issues two completely different responses

NOW I ASK YOU

why didn't they go on STRIKE for CONDITIONS during the good times?

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

why didn't they go on STRIKE for CONDITIONS during the good times?

Maybe they thought that there was no point in going on strike for conditions during the good times, but accepted it because their pay was just about good enough. Their pay made them just about happy to work within poor conditions. Now the bad times have come, and not only are the government maintaining their substandard funding of schools, but now they are also trying to give them pay cuts. Now they can no longer accept working within such poor conditions for inaqequate pay.

Why have they separated into two groups? Hard to say since I'm not the teacher well versed in the politics of their profession. But I can only assume that one group are striking over pay because they are cynical, and believe that since the government have always made them work within poor conditions, they are not suddenly going to turn around and give them good conditions in a recession. So they are going for the more realistic target in their view, striking over pay cuts. As for the group striking over conditions, maybe they are more optimistic about improving conditions and are perhaps willing to show solidarity with the rest of the nation by accepting their pay cuts. After all, it would be the smarter choice, since they probably know that they'd have to put up with the likes of you insulting the job that they do and for have the 'audacity' to resist a pay cut in a climate where so many have already took pay cuts.

ejmaztec

Those teechurs ar wurth evry fucken sent wot their paid and shud hav dubbel. coz their grate. iff it wurnt fur teechers I wudnt bee suckessfull like wot i am.

Brian.

drusk

gurramok wrote: »

People on Min wage in retail deal with the public as well and get assaulted by types, don't they deserve to have the same pay as a teacher?

And why can't the teachers strike in June, July or August and not wait till September?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0415/education.html


They don't give a sh1t about the kids but only to line their own pockets.:mad:

Oh. My. God. How out of tune with reality are you?!!

People on minimum wage in retail didn't slog it out in college for 4 or 5 years. That's why they're on the minimum wage.

There's a major difference between sitting behind a counter in a shop, and standing up in front of a class of unruly, immature teenagers.

What impact would a teacher's strike in the summer-time have???? ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!!

Your last comment is such a moronic generalisation, I just don't know how to respond to it.

I cannot understand how so many posters can hold so much resentment for teachers! Yes, the system needs to be changed with regards permanency and being accountable for the job you're doing and results you're getting. But to blatantly vilify teachers as being the greedy ones here - LOOK AT FIANNA FAIL!! That's where the greediness lies. It's been said before and I'll say it again. This whole private sector versus public sector is a smokescreen cleverly created by the powers that be to detract attention from the real corruption.

ronbyrne2005

Our teachers get the best pay/pension in eurozone, and with a collapsing economy that will underperform these other eurozone countries for at least next decade we can no longer afford to pay best wages in Eurozone. Whats wrong with benchmarking teachers and other public sector workers with the eurozone average for their job as afterall we are merely an average Eurozone country and not the richest little country in the world like we were led to beleive. Cost of living is a bit higher here than EU average but taxation is no where near EU average . We cant afford to spend more on identical public services than our competitor countries in the eurozone in medium to long term.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Maybe they thought that there was no point in going on strike for conditions during the good times, but accepted it because their pay was just about good enough. Their pay made them just about happy to work within poor conditions. Now the bad times have come, and not only are the government maintaining their substandard funding of schools, but now they are also trying to give them pay cuts. Now they can no longer accept working within such poor conditions for inaqequate pay.

Why have they separated into two groups? Hard to say since I'm not the teacher well versed in the politics of their profession. But I can only assume that one group are striking over pay because they are cynical, and believe that since the government have always made them work within poor conditions, they are not suddenly going to turn around and give them good conditions in a recession. So they are going for the more realistic target in their view, striking over pay cuts. As for the group striking over conditions, maybe they are more optimistic about improving conditions and are perhaps willing to show solidarity with the rest of the nation by accepting their pay cuts. After all, it would be the smarter choice, since they probably know that they'd have to put up with the likes of you insulting the job that they do and for have the 'audacity' to resist a pay cut in a climate where so many have already took pay cuts.

maybe nothing. they didn't go on strike because they had more money in their pocket and didn't care less if it's as a big problem as you claim it is then they would have.

I'd like to see some stats on teachers who have been assaulted do you have any?

there not in two groups

they wanted to make sure that both issues were seperated and wanted to make sure it was clear why they were going on strike

it's not two groups it's two responses to two different problems

money money money

that's all it's about and to claim other wise is absloute nonsense of the highest order it's as clear as day why they're going on strike

maybe they didn't see a point....

when the goverment could afford to do more for them they didn't see a point

now THEIR BOSS the goverment doesn't have the money they now see a point

are these teachers? what f*cking school did they go to

ntlbell

drusk wrote: »

Oh. My. God. How out of tune with reality are you?!!

People on minimum wage in retail didn't slog it out in college for 4 or 5 years. That's why they're on the minimum wage.

There's a major difference between sitting behind a counter in a shop, and standing up in front of a class of unruly, immature teenagers.

What impact would a teacher's strike in the summer-time have???? ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!!

Your last comment is such a moronic generalisation, I just don't know how to respond to it.

I cannot understand how so many posters can hold so much resentment for teachers! Yes, the system needs to be changed with regards permanency and being accountable for the job you're doing and results you're getting. But to blatantly vilify teachers as being the greedy ones here - LOOK AT FIANNA FAIL!! That's where the greediness lies. It's been said before and I'll say it again. This whole private sector versus public sector is a smokescreen cleverly created by the powers that be to detract attention from the real corruption.

his point is not that their anymore educated or less educated it's they do not get compensated for the CRAP they have to take from the public

i'll just add to the fact that a lot of people working in these jobs ARE students and ARE slogging it out in college and taken the crap on the side

just because you didn't "slog" it out in college shouldn't mean you have to put up with but the fact is nearly everyone has to put up with some form of crap in jobs that be it the public or whatever

so you would rather the teachers punish young students and their education than protest for a few months?

no they'll be off in croatia in thier investment property for 3 months :rolleyes:

there is a lot of moronic nonsense on this thread none of it is from gurramok

littletiger

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Our teachers get the best pay/pension in eurozone, and with a collapsing economy that will underperform these other eurozone countries for at least next decade we can no longer afford to pay best wages in Eurozone. Whats wrong with benchmarking teachers and other public sector workers with the eurozone average for their job as afterall we are merely an average Eurozone country and not the richest little country in the world like we were led to beleive. Cost of living is a bit higher here than EU average but taxation is no where near EU average . We cant afford to spend more on identical public services than our competitor countries in the eurozone in medium to long term.

If we were to benchmark everyones pay against the other eurozone countries we would all be getting alot less money, especially those that are unemployed.
Why do you think everyone was traveling from abroad to work here during the good times. Everyone got too much so you can't just single out the teachers for that

gurramok

drusk wrote: »

Oh. My. God. How out of tune with reality are you?!!

People on minimum wage in retail didn't slog it out in college for 4 or 5 years. That's why they're on the minimum wage.

There's a major difference between sitting behind a counter in a shop, and standing up in front of a class of unruly, immature teenagers.

Yeh, don't we know. One set has armed robbers with hammers and guns attacking them as well as drugged up syringed fuelled junkies robbing them behind that counter and another set, well, they have unruly teenagers.

What impact would a teacher's strike in the summer-time have???? ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!!

Your last comment is such a moronic generalisation, I just don't know how to respond to it.

You want impact on students in high babies class.

So to prove it, you want to use 5yr olds to push for pay claims, well done.

i have read none of this thread but have to say that i fuking hate anyone who defends the teachers.

that salary after an arts degree and a h.dipp? yea, go strike ye overpaid childminders.

Terry

ntlbell wrote: »

It doesn't suit you Terry.

The point is very clear.

Bouncers,guards,<insert dangerous job> have to take serious amounts of crap but teachers pay is not related to the amount of wild kids they have in classroom if it is then surley teachers with mroe should be paid more?

it's utter nonsense and you trying to be a smart arse about it is not helping.

lets try and keep this conversation slightly intelligent.

ntlbell wrote: »

maybe nothing. they didn't go on strike because they had more money in their pocket and didn't care less if it's as a big problem as you claim it is then they would have.

I'd like to see some stats on teachers who have been assaulted do you have any?

there not in two groups

they wanted to make sure that both issues were seperated and wanted to make sure it was clear why they were going on strike

it's not two groups it's two responses to two different problems

money money money

that's all it's about and to claim other wise is absloute nonsense of the highest order it's as clear as day why they're going on strike

maybe they didn't see a point....

when the goverment could afford to do more for them they didn't see a point

now THEIR BOSS the goverment doesn't have the money they now see a point

are these teachers? what f*cking school did they go to

Right. Bouncers and Gardaí can defend themselves. Teachers cannot.
Bouncers and Gardaí do not have to see the same person every single day.

Teachers have to take students back into their class because you cannot legally expel someone until they are 16. Used to 15, but they upped it a year recently.
Move them to a different school? The student is still a problem.

The mental torture that teachers go through is not comparable to that of a bouncer or a Garda.
They deal with different types of people. They are not as respected as the Gardaí or bouncers (yeah, bouncers. They're the ones between you and the bar and then the hot chick).

I saw it when I was in school. One of my cohorts was a complete prick (as was I, but that's another story for another day). He was actually worse than me, but any time he got in trouble, his mother would be down and would threaten legal action and all other sorts of crap. Her precious little cuntbag could do no wrong.
He bullied the teachers, they complained and then his mother came down and bullied them too. They couldn't throw him out for fear of her suing the school, or having their funding cut because she was going to talk to every local TD.

I don't know where people get the idea that teaching is some sort of cushy job with lots of perks.
It's a ****ty job where you have to put up with complete **** every day of the week and usually in a prefab.

I see threads here all the time about scumbags on the streets. Where do you think the majority of the younger ones go during the day?
That's right. They are in school pushing others around.

Talk to anyone who has been bullied in school. They'll tell you that the teachers could do very little about it because their hands are tied by bureaucratic nonsense set up by hippies.

ntlbell

Terry wrote: »

Right. Bouncers and Gardaí can defend themselves. Teachers cannot.
Bouncers and Gardaí do not have to see the same person every single day

As I stated all ready if they're being physically abused the child needs to be removed, this is a school/principal/localised issue to that problem

Terry wrote: »

Teachers have to take students back into their class because you cannot legally expel someone until they are 16. Used to 15, but they upped it a year recently.
Move them to a different school? The student is still a problem.

I assume if they hit a teacher they can be brought to court and sent to path's no? they can educate them there AGAIN this is a SCHOOL problem not a financial one that needs to be resolved and if teachers want backing on this they'll get it.

Terry wrote: »

The mental torture that teachers go through is not comparable to that of a bouncer or a Garda.
They deal with different types of people. They are not as respected as the Gardaí or bouncers (yeah, bouncers. They're the ones between you and the bar and then the hot chick).

Your right there the mental toture the familiy of a dead guard has to go through cannot be compared to someone who has a few clowns in their class get real will you most of these are just disruptive young kids the vast majority are not violent

Terry wrote: »

I saw it when I was in school. One of my cohorts was a complete prick (as was I, but that's another story for another day). He was actually worse than me, but any time he got in trouble, his mother would be down and would threaten legal action and all other sorts of crap. Her precious little cuntbag could do no wrong.
He bullied the teachers, they complained and then his mother came down and bullied them too. They couldn't throw him out for fear of her suing the school, or having their funding cut because she was going to talk to every local TD.

Where I went to school kids were expelled regardless of age, any carry on was dealt with swiftly within the school (see it can be deal with if done right LOCALLY) this is not a finacial or goverment issue they're NOT striking for the reasons you claim

Terry wrote: »

I don't know where people get the idea that teaching is some sort of cushy job with lots of perks.
It's a ****ty job where you have to put up with complete **** every day of the week and usually in a prefab.

No says it's cushy but it is well paid you get great perks and you know what your signing up for we all make choices we all have to deal with them but most of us can't hold the countires future to ransom.

Terry wrote: »

I see threads here all the time about scumbags on the streets. Where do you think the majority of the younger ones go during the day?
That's right. They are in school pushing others around.

There will always be problomatic kids my point is if the problem is so big why wasn't this dealt with 10 years ago? 5 years ago? when did they go on strike? when their pockets were hit NOT when they had some sort of crazy influx of hard to deal with kids.

are teachers not thought how to deal with problomatic kids? is it not part of the job? it was when i went to school?

Terry wrote: »

Talk to anyone who has been bullied in school. They'll tell you that the teachers could do very little about it because their hands are tied by bureaucratic nonsense set up by hippies.

what has this got to do with teachers wanting more money and going on strike?

there's bullies in schools well f*ck me this is news.

Ace2007

Terry wrote: »

Right. Bouncers and Gardaí can defend themselves. Teachers cannot.
Bouncers and Gardaí do not have to see the same person every single day.

Teachers have to take students back into their class because you cannot legally expel someone until they are 16. Used to 15, but they upped it a year recently.
Move them to a different school? The student is still a problem.

The mental torture that teachers go through is not comparable to that of a bouncer or a Garda.
They deal with different types of people. They are not as respected as the Gardaí or bouncers (yeah, bouncers. They're the ones between you and the bar and then the hot chick).

I saw it when I was in school. One of my cohorts was a complete prick (as was I, but that's another story for another day). He was actually worse than me, but any time he got in trouble, his mother would be down and would threaten legal action and all other sorts of crap. Her precious little cuntbag could do no wrong.
He bullied the teachers, they complained and then his mother came down and bullied them too. They couldn't throw him out for fear of her suing the school, or having their funding cut because she was going to talk to every local TD.

I don't know where people get the idea that teaching is some sort of cushy job with lots of perks.
It's a ****ty job where you have to put up with complete **** every day of the week and usually in a prefab.

I see threads here all the time about scumbags on the streets. Where do you think the majority of the younger ones go during the day?
That's right. They are in school pushing others around.

Talk to anyone who has been bullied in school. They'll tell you that the teachers could do very little about it because their hands are tied by bureaucratic nonsense set up by hippies.

You are talkin absolutly crap - how you can defend people who get 4+months holidays is insane - and who can then get a second job in the summer - Why don't we just pay teachers for the school year and 20 days holidays - surely that would be fair? but nope over the year the public servants in this coutry have held the country to ransom - money was there so they got it - they money in no longer there - so everyone has to take cuts.

Teachers don't care about little billy or mary in their class - they are usin the kids for their arguments - all they want is not to have to pay more taxes -

skyhighflyer

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Our teachers get the best pay/pension in eurozone, and with a collapsing economy that will underperform these other eurozone countries for at least next decade we can no longer afford to pay best wages in Eurozone. Whats wrong with benchmarking teachers and other public sector workers with the eurozone average for their job as afterall we are merely an average Eurozone country and not the richest little country in the world like we were led to beleive. Cost of living is a bit higher here than EU average but taxation is no where near EU average . We cant afford to spend more on identical public services than our competitor countries in the eurozone in medium to long term.

I love how people say these things and have no figures to support them. Not that it makes a difference, I worked in a shop (yes I was that minimum wage guy) and had to deal with little skobes shoplifting, intimidating customers and messing up the place on a daily basis. At least I was able to throw them out or threaten to call the guards if things got out of hand but fcuk me if I'd be stuck in classroom with them and 30 odd other kids to teach as well.

skyhighflyer

Ace2007 wrote: »

You are talkin absolutly crap - how you can defend people who get 4+months holidays is insane - and who can then get a second job in the summer - Why don't we just pay teachers for the school year and 20 days holidays - surely that would be fair? but nope over the year the public servants in this coutry have held the country to ransom - money was there so they got it - they money in no longer there - so everyone has to take cuts.

Teachers don't care about little billy or mary in their class - they are usin the kids for their arguments - all they want is not to have to pay more taxes -

What in God's name are you talking about - so the kids are off on three months holidays and you expect a teacher to pay for a car, bills, mortgage and possibly their own childcare, etc for those three months while there are no kids to teach in the school - on 20 day's salary? This thread has become beyond moronic and frankly, I'm surprised at the level of hate displayed against teachers in this country.. makes me feel doubly glad that I'm not in the job myself and reinforces my opinion that they're worth every last cent they get.