Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

yurmothrintites

Elo139 wrote: »

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

-Unsackable: yes if you have one of the very very rare permanent contract or CID .

-Pension: only worth it if you have a permanent contract, if not you pay for the pension contributions/teacher registration fees/unions fees and it means very little to you if you can't find a post.

And to be even clearer: point 8 ( 5yrs in the job) on the teacher salary scale with 1rst honors degree, 1rst honours Hdip = 4133.51 gross after all deductions =3044.00. Pay a mortgage and support 2 children with that!!!

-190 days off per year: oh yes but take away the work done during holidays and you can have them too : become a teacher!

-Working hours 9h00 to 15h00 : WRONG!! The dedicated ones ( I am one of them) have 22 hours class contact and 12hours more for class preparation and corrections.

Of course we could easily not prepare our classes and not do regular tests and content ourselves with giving the same lessons from year to year, preparing your children just for exams instead of teaching them how to be autonomous and responsible towards their learning.We could also count on you to teach them manners and to motivate them too.

Please do try to be a teacher for 1 week!

Ps: I love my job.

You said it in a nutshell. I'm going into my last year of teaching college and as time goes on my initial opinion of the primary school teaching job being an easy sailing job is diminishing quickly. With the amount of work and preparation needed for teaching a class, it's much more than a 9 to 3 job 'minding' children.
Every job has stress, but for the amount of money paid to the teachers and the amount of work most dedicated teachers do, it's well earned.

Spudmonkey

Elo139 wrote: »

Ps: I love my job.

I'm sure you do!

yurmothrintites wrote: »

With the amount of work and preparation needed for teaching a class, it's much more than a 9 to 3 job 'minding' children.

With someone who's sister is involved with teaching first class, once the work is done for one year, it sounds like its simply regurgitated the following year..

yurmothrintites wrote: »

Every job has stress, but for the amount of money paid to the teachers and the amount of work most dedicated teachers do, it's well earned.

I suppose it wasn't well earned for those whos pay has been cut and those who have lost their jobs?

Spudmonkey

Elo139 wrote: »

Well Spudmonkey that poor sister, even at primary level is going to be terribly bored: content can't change, approach and material can that is what makes it fun.

Three posts ago yurmothrintites said this was what made the job stressful!

Elo139 wrote: »

Regarding the people who have lost their job:
Some of us teachers wanted and still want to strike but not for us, not for the pension levy aka pay cut.We don't do our jobs primarily for the money or we would most certainly not do it. We wanted to strike in the name of the ones who cannot safely do so. That is the power of civil servants all accross Europe. Unfortunately, we live in a country where it is easier to moan, blame and turn against each other instead of actually putting the blame where it lies: the people you elected.

Please... don't tell me this is for the sake of those who haven't a voice. Bringing the education system to a standstill is not doing anyone any favours except for those striking... And I believe this is the case with all industrial action.

gurramok

Elo139 wrote: »

And to be even clearer: point 8 ( 5yrs in the job) on the teacher salary scale with 1rst honors degree, 1rst honours Hdip = 4133.51 gross after all deductions =3044.00. Pay a mortgage and support 2 children with that!!!

3k net a month on your own and you're struggling?!

Lets compare that with 800 quid on the dole, reality check there.

gaeilgegrinds

How is it fair to compare someone working to someone not?

gurramok

So you have a partner helping the finances which is even better financially.

Then whats the problem with "Pay a mortgage and support 2 children with that!!!" ?

Frankly, that statement sounds like you are saying money is tight which is crazy talk. You are been paid a handsome wage from the public purse and can live quite comfortably middle class style.

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

How is it fair to compare someone working to someone not?

Trying to live on 800 a month in comparison to 3k a month. Both have expenses, one has a sh1t lifestyle while the other has a comfy lifestyle

gaeilgegrinds

One works their tush off, the other has full days to do what they like? And don't ask have I lived on nothing cos yes I did rather than go on the dole, next to nothing working in a really poorly paid job. I don't see how you are comparing like with like there?

gurramok

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

One works their tush off, the other has full days to do what they like? And don't ask have I lived on nothing cos yes I did rather than go on the dole, next to nothing working in a really poorly paid job. I don't see how you are comparing like with like there?

Re-read post again. It was the statement of "Pay a mortgage and support 2 children with that!!!" that gave an impression it was not enough to live on 3k a month.(later clarified)

Elo139 wrote: »

No no partner financially helping and no financial worries on 3000 a month with 2kids .

My remark "try to live on that?" is because many people think they can't or couldn't.

Many people can and many would dream of having a 50k salary so its nothing to be joked about

gaeilgegrinds

I've re-read this and still wonder but how and ever! 50k does not guarantee happiness, being comfortable is all I desire. Perhaps knowing I'll not be in the next 6 teachers cut from school might help that! Disasterous amount of redundancies this year.

baglady

75 fookin' pages later and we're still going around in circles! Why was this thread 'reopened'???????? :rolleyes:

gurramok

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

I've re-read this and still wonder but how and ever! 50k does not guarantee happiness, being comfortable is all I desire. Perhaps knowing I'll not be in the next 6 teachers cut from school might help that! Disasterous amount of redundancies this year.

At the end of the day, money rules in this world to have material things and buy your loved one meals in a fancy r'nt

A person on lunder 50k/min wage/dole cannot do that hence the comparison of lifestyle.
Set aside money for a rainy day and you be fine.

Elo139 wrote: »

Well then they go to college for 4 yrs and become teachers:)

Am i reading your post right? 5yrs in the job on 50k. What do you expect to earn after 10yrs?

gurramok

baglady wrote: »

75 fookin' pages later and we're still going around in circles! Why was this thread 'reopened'???????? :rolleyes:

28 pages on mine, you must be logged off as guest?

Thread was never closed!

It'll probably be double in size come teacher strike day in Sept.!

gurramok

Elo139 wrote: »

because it is fun? Enternaining ? or we have nothing else to do?

Teachers have nothing to do? Not surprising :P

Shouldn't you be still marking exams or something or are you still on hols?:D

gaeilgegrinds

Would you really expect us to be correcting at one o clock in the morning?

Also. not all papers are handed out the day after the exams, we actually receive them in the professional manner that they deserve and have a conference before commencing corrections. I don't understand why people who are so envious of us don't simply do the 4 years hard slog and try to find a teaching job!

gurramok

Elo139 wrote: »

Yep you are reading right and go on the ASTI or TUI websites and check salary scales but you have to add the diplomas on top and you will know how much teachers earn. Simple.

Oh, we know the take home pay alright, it was discussed alot in the 1000+ posts a few months ago

Elo139 wrote: »

I don't mark exams. I am a French teacher of French..you want me to pull all my hair out???? Holidays are next week for me I work onn primary callendar..don't ask!:)

Excusé-moi. How long you off for while the rest of us slave? :P

gurramok

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Would you really expect us to be correcting at one o clock in the morning?

Yes, why not? This is your free time so it will enhance your productivity to mark some papers at this hour, it will remind you of how good your job is!

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Also. not all papers are handed out the day after the exams, we actually receive them in the professional manner that they deserve and have a conference before commencing corrections. I don't understand why people who are so envious of us don't simply do the 4 years hard slog and try to find a teaching job!

We're not envious of you, we're envious of the huge salary for so little work done to show for it

gaeilgegrinds

Just become a teacher, then the bitterness towards us might well end and you'll see what it's really like. It's the most rewarding job in my opinion and I love it, but I was made to teach and make a difference. No day of my job, despite how hard I've worked, has ever made me feel like I was a slave though. What do you do that is so tough?

joey54

Will somebody please think of the Children!

gaeilgegrinds

The quality of any of the work done at this hour would be so poor it would not be worth doing as I'd have to redo it tomorrow. I'd never do any student that injustice. You obviously don't know any proper teachers well enough to know how much work is required, I make no apologies for my take home pay, it's adequate for what I do. It's never been my motivation though, who cares about fancy restaurants?! I know it was mentioned earlier but life is about so much more than that!

gurramok

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Just become a teacher, then the bitterness towards us might well end and you'll see what it's really like. It's the most rewarding job in my opinion and I love it, but I was made to teach and make a difference. No day of my job, despite how hard I've worked, has ever made me feel like I was a slave though. What do you do that is so tough?

I work in I.T.

It's never been my motivation though,

If your job is so rewarding and you love it, you won't object to a paycut will you?

Elo139 wrote: »

Hum let me see...... well I believe until the end of August..:):) But because I am one of the "good" ones I shall spend at least 15 days of that working on next year..yep while sitting in the sun ! No apologies for that..I deserve it all !:):)

Ouch, so thats where our taxes go to help your tan. You could teach grinds for free?(inside, not outside in the sun!)

joey54 wrote: »

Will somebody please think of the Children!

Ask the teachers will they sacrifice generous pay!

baglady

gurramok wrote: »

We're not envious of you, we're envious of the huge salary for so little work done to show for it

lmao

gaeilgegrinds

Head in sand syndrome here I see! Paycut?! Examine how our wages compare to last year and you should be very happy. Money doesn't motivate me or complete me in any way, I've coped with the paycut. As for free grinds, what parent would put any credence by a teacher who could morally take a student for grinds during the student's holiday? They need time off too.

gurramok

Elo139 wrote: »

1- We got a pay cut , they called it "pension levy" to which we are obliged to contribute.
2-I don't teach grinds.It is against my principles since I became a teacher. It is unfair to the kids whose parents cannot pay to alleviate the failures of the education system.
3-3000 a month for 44 hours work/week and the responsibilities attached to the job, is not generous it is fair but yes I would give 2 more % of my income if I knew the judges took a pay cut too.:)

So you've taken a paycut to help your generous guaranteed pension, nice.

Why not give grinds for free to help equality and you don;t need teh extra dosh anyway.

3k a month is generous for minding kids, why don't you pre-empt the judges by setting an example?

Head in sand syndrome here I see! Paycut?! Examine how our wages compare to last year and you should be very happy. Money doesn't motivate me or complete me in any way, I've coped with the paycut. As for free grinds, what parent would put any credence by a teacher who could morally take a student for grinds during the student's holiday? They need time off too.

Pension levy cut. Students especially poor students would welcome you with open arms to help their studies, morally correct.

Elo139 wrote:

IT hihihihihihihi hum let see aren't you the guys who get paid to go around telling us "it's a bug we working on it?

Yeh, alot of responsibility and we don't get paid as good as teachers for it

baglady

gurramok wrote: »

3k a month is generous for minding kids

again - ???

gurramok

baglady wrote: »

again - ???

Again what?

Elo139 wrote: »

Ok tell you what . Do as I did, I liked the idea of teaching so I went back to college and there I am 4 yrs of college and there it is ..you want it go and get it and stop moaning about what other people have when they have worked and still work hard for it. What stops you?:)

No jobs in teaching(as gaeilgegrinds pointed out) and i don't want to rip the taxpayer off on an average 60k a year wages?

gaeilgegrinds

How can you insinuate that because a student's financial circumstances are not as good they deserve to give up on having fun and should study during the Summer?! That is crazy talk in my opinion. I do free lessons in my school, which is hugely disadvantaged, three evenings a week so am fulfilling any need they may have. But during the school year.

Are you trying to say your teachers only minded you? Surely they had to educate you in some way if your job holds such a level of responsibilty? I have respect for those who work in every sector, I.T. to medicine, education to tourism...but I question someone who is so taken with another's profession? Just become a teacher, or volunteer to teach in some capacity? You might finally understand the job satisfaction we so fondly and openly speak of. I'd not be able to work in a job where I feel like a slave and find money to bring my partner to fancy restaurants to with is my motivation. I enjoy making a difference and seeing my students blossom.

gaeilgegrinds

Very few jobs alright but if you wanted it badly enough you'd take a part-time contract like most have to do and work for 25k plus and make up the rest in evening work. It's worth every cutback I've had to make!

gurramok

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

How can you insinuate that because a student's financial circumstances are not as good they deserve to give up on having fun and should study during the Summer?! That is crazy talk in my opinion. I do free lessons in my school, which is hugely disadvantaged, three evenings a week so am fulfilling any need they may have. But during the school year.

Students like teachers have 2-3months time off in the summer to have fun. There are plenty of days there to enhance their educational credentials by having free grinds instead of having them hanging around street corners up to no good.

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Are you trying to say your teachers only minded you? Surely they had to educate you in some way if your job holds such a level of responsibilty? I have respect for those who work in every sector, I.T. to medicine, education to tourism...but I question someone who is so taken with another's profession? Just become a teacher, or volunteer to teach in some capacity? You might finally understand the job satisfaction we so fondly and openly speak of. I'd not be able to work in a job where I feel like a slave and find money to bring my partner to fancy restaurants to with is my motivation. I enjoy making a difference and seeing my students blossom.

In my experience, only a minority of teachers are hard workers. The rest are wasters and leechers on the public purse and quite unsackable per se.

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

Very few jobs alright but if you wanted it badly enough you'd take a part-time contract like most have to do and work for 25k plus and make up the rest in evening work. It's worth every cutback I've had to make!

Its the permos that are the costly ones.

Elo139 wrote:

No jobs in teaching very true..so for 5 days this thread is open to trash teachers instead of wandering at the fact that the student population is increasing- there are no teaching post being created-the class are getting bigger-the quality of education is declining and you are all worried about how much we get paid and at the fact that we want to strike against that very situation???? Whao I am amazed!

Think for a moment what you said.

Reduce the huge wages of all teachers by 10% and voila there will be more teachers hired to educate the students while teh country goes broke.

After all, the job is about 'seeing my students blossom' rather than the lure of the euro.

gaeilgegrinds

Permos as you call them are not very common, I'm certainly not one! Tarring us all with the one brush is dodgy in my mind.
You really think very little of students if you think they do nothing but hang around. We don't sit around doing nothing all Summer, I spent two weeks planning, took one off and will be correcting for close on a month shortly. I head into school a week before the students come back to get the room ready and plans somewhat in order. I think the part of all this that bothers me the most is that you were minded in school, it's an awful shame that's what you experienced in school. I'd love to see a more positive attitude from someone of what our current system is about. Things have really changed.

gurramok

Elo139 wrote: »

In my experience, only a minority of teachers are hard workers. The rest are wasters and leechers on the public purse and quite unsackable per se.


So what is the point of increasing their numbers..you tak ethe chance of having 10 new "wasters leechers" :)

Reform the system. Hire and maintain good teachers while pay them well, not overpay them.
Also, make sure teachers give grinds/extra-curricular activity to students on request for free of charge.

gaeilgegrinds

We already do loads of extra curricular activities for free! I never left school before 6 last year! I feel so sad that this is not more widespread among any teachers you might know. There are many really good teachers out therem obviously I had them and model my good behaviour on theirs. Never had anyone merely, 'mind,' me in school.

gurramok

Elo139 wrote:

I am loving this..so much fun..but I shall say "bonne nuit" and propose that every pupils in Ireland learn from the web on their own with the help of their parents and this country would save lots of money.

Good night to you too. I'm more knackered than you though as after all i work harder than you :P

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

Permos as you call them are not very common, I'm certainly not one! Tarring us all with the one brush is dodgy in my mind.
You really think very little of students if you think they do nothing but hang around. We don't sit around doing nothing all Summer, I spent two weeks planning, took one off and will be correcting for close on a month shortly. I head into school a week before the students come back to get the room ready and plans somewhat in order. I think the part of all this that bothers me the most is that you were minded in school, it's an awful shame that's what you experienced in school. I'd love to see a more positive attitude from someone of what our current system is about. Things have really changed.

Those teachers that taught me still teach.

Point about the summer, students can have too much fun in the summer(i did). There has to be time there to get free grinds from the teachers, if so our educational system will be world class and some of the anti-social problems will diminish.

gaeilgegrinds

Most of my students are working hard! Painting their grandparents houses, free sports camps (run by teachers!) and doing literacy programmes run in the local library by teachers and librarians. But not merely hanging about! I'd never have been let do that, we were made work hard and obviously an ethos like that spreads. Some people had poor experiences of education, that is sad but not what I had or give to my students.

gurramok

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Most of my students are working hard! Painting their grandparents houses, free sports camps (run by teachers!) and doing literacy programmes run in the local library by teachers and librarians. But not merely hanging about! I'd never have been let do that, we were made work hard and obviously an ethos like that spreads. Some people had poor experiences of education, that is sad but not what I had or give to my students.

Good to hear about the good work, pity its not more widespread. My class never encountered our teachers once from the end of June to start day in late August/Sept.
They all fecked off to do whatever they did. Sounds like your school is a rarity having good teachers that care

Elo139 wrote:

Oh yes great idea!!! how much would you pay me to teach your kids French with garanteed 85+ at Leaving Cert? NO extra curricular activities ( not my job), NO grinds ( they don't need any).Good night

Thought you went to bed?

Pay ZERO, didn't i make that clear?

You should teach my kids for free for good of the community, think of the good you would do for the world.

You still get paid hols for when you doing it so its not really working for free for you as you still earn your wage :P

gaeilgegrinds

Yes we have a fab school but I doubt it's a rarity, wouldn't be stupid enough to make a blanket statement. Ok bed calls, you should try to meet more positive teachers, my school days were by far my happiest. Good way to have it in my opinion. Your opinions rub off on the young people around you.

baglady

gurramok wrote: »

Again what?

Again I am just a bit stumped at your true ignorance about the realities of a teaching job. Just baffled really.

gurramok

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

you should try to meet more positive teachers, .

I'm not a student anymore!

baglady wrote:

Again I am just a bit stumped at your true ignorance about the realities of a teaching job. Just baffled really.

Its a long time since an overpaid teacher worked to teach me ring-a-ring-a-rosy in the playground

Good night, as a hard working productive worker with no prospect of long hols, pay preservation and a guaranteed pension, i need my kip!

Spudmonkey

baglady wrote: »

Again I am just a bit stumped at your true ignorance about the realities of a teaching job. Just baffled really.

Just want to ask the teachers about there about their opinions on falling grades in Maths, Applied Maths, Physics etc?? Why are the results in these so much worse than they were 12-15 years ago?? Are the students getting more stupid I wonder? Evolution?

gurramok

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Just want to ask the teachers about there about their opinions on falling grades in Maths, Applied Maths, Physics etc?? Why are the results in these so much worse than they were 12-15 years ago?? Are the students getting more stupid I wonder? Evolution?

ROFL.

Nah, its just the euro sign that may get in the way of curricular activites

Spudmonkey

Seriously though, the course I did in college was very high in points some 10 years ago and an honour in honours maths was the minimum requirement. Now they are leaving anyone in (if anyone is even choosing the course anymore) and the quality of graduates is terrible! Their basics are woeful!

I know this from first hand experience with them!

gurramok

That sounds like bad teaching methods and they are paid a 60k wage for that... oops, our education system is worse than we thought

cock robin

Educators are cool. I live by their teachings.

scrubs

if your have a better paid job then why are you giving out it obviously doesnt affect you so quit complianing....

Badboy1977

You should never judge another persons job unless you have done it yourself. Sitting in a classroom as a student does not make you fully aware of the job.It gives you some idea but not the whole story. I could go to the theatre for 10 years straight but still not really know what it is to be an Actor.

Many people dont understand that having to correct people all day (often for trivial but none the less necessary things because the trivial unchecked can get out of hand very quickly) is extremely wearing and even though the hours are good its still exhausting. I have worked in the private sector-doing 12 hour days but nothing and I mean nothing prepares you for the physical/psychological stress of teaching. Its you and 30 odd students. No script and its sink or swim.

Dont get me wrong I love my job but I would never be as arrogant as others to judge a job I have never done.

E.T.

Spudmonkey wrote: »

With someone who's sister is involved with teaching first class, once the work is done for one year, it sounds like its simply regurgitated the following year..

It may sound like "its simply regurgitated the following year" if that's the mindset you apply to your own work, but anyone who has actual experience of teaching (not just from their own experience as a student in school!) will know that's complete rubbish. The curriculum stays the same, but the kids don't. I'm a bit confused about your statement - your sister is "involved" with teaching first class? Is she a qualified teacher actually teaching first class?

I've one class this year but I'm working with 6 different levels for Maths alone. That can't just be done by standing at the top of a class and talking at kids. It means I've to spend time (outside school hours) every day getting worksheets ready for all these levels, from children who are working to a standard miles ahead of the rest, to children who I'm going to have to sit down beside and go through each step personally with. The books we use are just a basis and there's no way that you can teach properly by just teaching one level.

The levels vary hugely within the class, and from year to year, so even though I might be teaching the same content every year, and my yearly plans might be similar, my fortnightly plans (every teacher has to do these, the inspector can drop into a school at any time and ask for them) will be totally different year to year. All that planning takes place outside of school time, along with preparing different levels of homework and adapting lessons so that they are suitable for all levels of ability and for children with special needs too.

I'm not explaining all of this to whinge or give out, I'm replying to the quote above, to let people know that teachers don't just stand there teaching out of a book as so many people like to think!