Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

bobbyjoe

gurramok wrote: »

You have just scored an own goal for the teachers.

You have proved that they can indeed strike during the summer hols as after all they 'still work' and they are using the kids in Sept as leverage.

Asked this already but have they said they will defo strike?
Thought they said industrial action not necessarily a strike.
No point doing it during the summer they will be ignored.

ntlbell

Lane Substantial Vocabulary wrote: »

Its pretty clear alright that you have very little to do but complain about teachers. You would swear they caused the fecking end of the world. You dont have a clue what teaching involves, dealing with other people children who you are responsible for. Kids constantly disrupting class parents coming in complaining etc etc. Why did you not become a teacher if you wanted lots of holidays and a secure job.



And a grand a week worked before tax is far from big money. I have friends starting on almost that in grad jobs and they will be on much more in a few years.

I have very little to complain about teachers, I think most of them do a fantastic, thankless hard job, THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE?

I understand the problems teachers have what has it got to do with the f*cking point?

most jobs have their problems we all have to deal with problems in work TEACHERS ARE NO DIFFERENT?

A grand a week is good money your "friends" are on better money so what?

Whats your point? people earn more than teachers? really? that's some serious economic insight you have.

When's the newsletter coming out

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

Whats your point? people earn more than teachers? really? that's some serious economic insight you have.

When's the newsletter coming out

My point is not that people earn more than teachers it was that a grand a week worked after a numbers of years working is not massive money as it is and you cannot expect people to accept pay cuts.

Why should they have to be punished for something they had nothing to do with, its laughable. Its not teachers fault that people are losing their jobs a lot chose teaching as for this very reason and for their choice they should be entitled to continue on the same salary structure as they have now.

I am not a teacher by the way and after seeing what its like from family members I would not like to teach myself, maybe lecture in a University but not teach secondary school.

gurramok

bobbyjoe wrote: »

Asked this already but have they said they will defo strike?
Thought they said industrial action not necessarily a strike.
No point doing it during the summer they will be ignored.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0416/1224244812100.html

Industrial action is withdrawal of services, it could be an all-out strike or a partial strike. It will affect the kids either way.

They are pissed over the levy, its there in print on the Irish Times website.

Lane Substantial Vocabulary wrote:

There is no way on earth that they should be accepting the levy's etc. I would back teachers to the last. I can see the amount of money that is being taken from my auld lads pay check already and I tell you anybody would go ape if it was being done to them.

And a grand a week worked before tax is far from big money.

This is hilarious, while people are on the dole, wonder if they are reading this.

Who here would class a grand a week earnings before tax as 'not great money'??

ntlbell

Lane Substantial Vocabulary wrote: »

My point is not that people earn more than teachers it was that a grand a week worked after a numbers of years working is not massive money as it is and you cannot expect people to accept pay cuts.

Why should they have to be punished for something they had nothing to do with, its laughable. Its not teachers fault that people are losing their jobs a lot chose teaching as for this very reason and for there choice they should be entitled to continue on the same salary structure as they have now.

The AVG ind wage is 33k or there abouts.

the person ends up with a take home pay of about 500e per week.

they work about 128 hours more than a teacher.

So after two years as a teacher your take home per week worked is twice that of the national average, the job is secure, they have a great pension etc all things the avg worker has to pay for themselves in FULL.

the salary they're on now is benchmarked now we need to reverse that bench marking

do you really need a lesson in basic economics? it's easy to see why it's your friends getting the big bucks.

bobbyjoe

gurramok wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0416/1224244812100.html

Industrial action is withdrawal of services, it could be an all-out strike or a partial strike. It will affect the kids either way.

They are pissed over the levy, its there in print on the Irish Times website.

Withdrawl of services could mean a lot of things, teachers do loads of stuff besides teaching the kids. Of course they are pissed at the levy.

ntlbell

gurramok wrote: »

Who here would class a grand a week earnings before tax as 'not great money'??

Farmers and teachers.

Mal-Adjusted

ntlbell wrote: »

A grand a week after a year or two experience for every week worked is pretty damn well paid in my book.
quote]

Um...i know a teacher starting off who's on the mid 20's pay level. i know another who's been teaching for all his life and is close to retirement (and a teacher/principal). he's on 53k

you're talking pure rubbish. people should seriously scale down their exadurations of teachers pay. (yea, i realize that there's probably a few who do make enormous money, but they're few and very far between)

ntlbell

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Um...i know a teacher starting off who's on the mid 20's pay level. i know another who's been teaching for all his life and is close to retirement (and a teacher/principal). he's on 53k

you're talking pure rubbish. people should seriously scale down their exadurations of teachers pay. (yea, i realize that there's probably a few who do make enormous money, but they're few and very far between)

I think your missing the point of for every week worked you get this right?

They don't _work_ the summer months right?

I'll even do part of the work for you

http://www.tui.ie/Salary_Scales/Default.286.html

the pay scales are available online if you wish to take a look the calculation to get the weekly wage based on the weeks worked is pretty simple you might have learned it in school.

division right?

gurramok

gurramok wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0416/1224244812100.html



This is hilarious, while people are on the dole, wonder if they are reading this.

Who here would class a grand a week earnings before tax as 'not great money'??

I was referring to the grand a week worked rubbish that going around. A grand every week would be good money but a grand a week worked is a bad comparison as the fact that teachers get paid when they are off is just the way it is.

By the way I only make a little better than minimum wage as a funded post grand student (luckily im exempt from all tax and levy's) so Im making the above comments from a position of making much much less money than the figures being talked about.

ntlbell

Melvin Shy Ref wrote: »

I was referring to the grand a week worked rubbish that going around. A grand every week would be good money but a grand a week worked is a bad comparison as the fact that teachers get paid when they are off is just the way it is.

By the way I only make a little better than minimum wage as a funded post grand student (luckily im exempt from all tax and levy's) so Im making the above comments from a position of m
aking much much less money than the figures being talked about.

grand a week worked is rubbish?

the rest of the working world usually get paid based on the time they spend actually doing the work?

but when it's a teacher it's rubbish :rolleyes:

Do the majority of them not work other jobs earning more money during the summer months

I know two who go to spain teach during the day lay about in the sun in the evening making a pretty penny that's on TOP of their grand a week.

not bad?

gurramok

Melvin Shy Ref wrote: »

I was referring to the grand a week worked rubbish that going around. A grand every week would be good money but a grand a week worked is a bad comparison as the fact that teachers get paid when they are off is just the way it is.

By the way I only make a little better than minimum wage as a funded post grand student (luckily im exempt from all tax and levy's) so Im making the above comments from a position of making much much less money than the figures being talked about.

I would back teachers to the last. I can see the amount of money that is being taken from my auld lads pay check already and I tell you anybody would go ape if it was being done to them.

You have a biased opinion as your Dad is a public sector worker(teacher?).

Perhaps withdraw pay from teachers when they are off?

ntlbell

gurramok wrote: »

You have a biased opinion as your Dad is a public sector worker(teacher?).

Perhaps withdraw pay from teachers when they are off?

The VI's are everywhere

ixoy

Lane Substantial Vocabulary wrote: »

There is no way on earth that they should be accepting the levy's etc. I would back teachers to the last. I can see the amount of money that is being taken from my auld lads pay check already and I tell you anybody would go ape if it was being done to them.

It's being done to many already. You'd honestly think the levy was at 40% of net pay the way some are screaming.

From what I recall, for teachers it would be about 4% of net pay that they would be paying more than the equivalent private sector worker (those who haven't had their own version of a levy - i.e. a pay cut) - it's hardly a disaster, especially when many would be getting an increment in the same year that would go some way to offsetting this levy.

Mal-Adjusted

ntlbell wrote: »

I think your missing the point of for every week worked you get this right?

They don't _work_ the summer months right?

I'll even do part of the work for you

http://www.tui.ie/Salary_Scales/Default.286.html

the pay scales are available online if you wish to take a look the calculation to get the weekly wage based on the weeks worked is pretty simple you might have learned it in school.

division right?

you still don't understand. take into account all the work done outside of the classroom during the week and work done during the "holidays" their hours are more flexable and they don't interact with children. that's about it. as i already said, there's syllabus preparation and coarse-work to undertake. as i said, it's naive to think they only work 9 months a year.
it's the same-old, same-old. you assumt that because your children don't go to school, their teachers don't?

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

grand a week worked is rubbish?

the rest of the working world usually get paid based on the time they spend actually doing the work?

but when it's a teacher it's rubbish :rolleyes:

Do the majority of them not work other jobs earning more money during the summer months

I know two who go to spain teach during the day lay about in the sun in the evening making a pretty penny that's on TOP of their grand a week.

not bad?

If I work a job with 25 days holidays a year its my choice and I dont go around complaining about teachers getting more holidays. People decide themselves what work they want to get into and people who become teachers get long holidays(not as long as people think due to preparation, correcting etc etc) other people do not. Thats the way it is so you might as well get used to it.

ntlbell

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

you still don't understand. take into account all the work done outside of the classroom during the week and work done during the "holidays" their hours are more flexable and they don't interact with children. that's about it. as i already said, there's syllabus preparation and coarse-work to undertake. as i said, it's naive to think they only work 9 months a year.
it's the same-old, same-old. you assumt that because your children don't go to school, their teachers don't?

I do lots of work outside the office preparing for the day ahead and usually some work in the evenings.

Lots of people take work home with them teachers are NOT the only ones?

they're not some special breed that take some pride in there work.

But I don't rant and rave to my employers that I want more money for it.

I'm good at what I do because of how I do it.

I asked a friend of mine who's a teacher how she never seems to bring work home with her, she said if you priorities your time right in the classroom you can get it done when the kids are working.

seems like perfect common sense to me?

ntlbell

Melvin Shy Ref wrote: »

If I work a job with 25 days holidays a year its my choice and I dont go around complaining about teachers getting more holidays. People decide themselves what work they want to get into and people who become teachers get long holidays(not as long as people think due to preparation, correcting etc etc) other people do not. Thats the way it is so you might as well get used to it.

Did I ever complain about them getting more holidays?

nope.

Mal-Adjusted

ntlbell wrote: »

I do lots of work outside the office preparing for the day ahead and usually some work in the evenings.

Lots of people take work home with them teachers are NOT the only ones?

they're not some special breed that take some pride in there work.

But I don't rant and rave to my employers that I want more money for it.

I'm good at what I do because of how I do it.

I asked a friend of mine who's a teacher how she never seems to bring work home with her, she said if you priorities your time right in the classroom you can get it done when the kids are working.

seems like perfect common sense to me?

I think I hear the worlds smallest violin playing for you...brave little martyr
the main diffirence here is that people are accusing teachers of not working when they are...just not in the classroom. i can't count how many times i've said it, but I'm always amazed at how people only hear what they want to hear.:rolleyes:

ntlbell

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

I think I hear the worlds smallest violin playing for you...brave little martyr
the main diffirence here is that people are accusing teachers of not working when they are...just not in the classroom. i can't count how many times i've said it, but I'm always amazed at how people only hear what they want to hear.:rolleyes:

Is it playing for the poor teachers?

oh i hear what you're saying it's just not relevant to the discussion.

They're not _always_ working when you claim. SOMETIMES they may have to do extra hours as do the majority

the difference is the majority are not holding the country to ransom?

ding dong ding dong around we go.

odonogar

It's painful the crap some people have been spewing here.

Nobody's saying teacher's don't do a good job. Most do and like other professions there are certain circumstances and difficulties that are difficult to put up with (i.e. large classrooms, poor facilities, difficult students). Have a demonstration seperately for these issues and I'm sure you'll get the country on your side.

The strike action is clearly about pay cuts, to suggest otherwise is misguided and clutching at straws at best. As previously mentioned where were all these teachers striking in the boom years about poor conditions/disruptive classes. It's about money.

Are teachers so economically clueless to think that the government and taxpayers should bend over and give in to their demands? The economy is in dire straits - teachers need to look outside their classroom window and see what's going on in the rest of the country - rising unemployment, pay cuts, pay freezes, higher interest rates on government borrowing, mortgages defaulting, complete lack of job security. Cuts need to be made - it's not nice for anyone but it's the reality.

Whoever mentioned earlier that it's not the teacher's fault but Fianna Fails fault for the situation they're in. You're right. But get over it. It's a childish attitude to shirk all responsibility and wipe your hands of the mess the country's in. Everyone has to take a hit.

fatboypee

For my 2c worth. I work in IT. I travel a hell of alot. On average, taking travelling into account I would reckon I work a + 60 hour week. I am highly qualified in my field of expertise, yet I have not had a payrise for over 2 years (small company, getting off the ground).

Alot of people work alot of hours becuase they HAVE To. I work these hours because I am contracted to do so, with no extra time off / days in lieu unless I work a weekend or bank holiday.

When we talk about teachers, I wholly agree, they do a brilliant job, with less resources than they need to do so. Yet, the kickback for doing this job is the long holidays and the shorter (on-site) working day.

I have alot of friends who are teachers and lecturers. The summer just gone, 3 of those managed to take their families on house-swap holidays for 6 WEEKS in the summer time. So, if they all work so hard, and such long hours, please explain to me how this is possible ?

As is possible, the 2 weeks at Easter, and , oh, Christmas...
Oh, and I nearly forgot, most of these people that I know personally are at home TWO OR THREE hours before I am even thinking about leaving my office. Yes they do preparation, but so do many, many others.

Additionally, other teachers and lecturers hold down side jobs in the summertime also ? How is that possible if they're all soooo hard working and pressed ?

The big difference here tho, is, like most civil service occupations, theyre highly unioinised. A concept, in private industry that went out with the ark "for the greater good".....

Sorry, whatever violin I hear must surely have been mistaken for the echoes of the school bell that rings about, err half three ??

FBP

oldyouth

ntlbell wrote: »

I do lots of work outside the office preparing for the day ahead and usually some work in the evenings.

Lots of people take work home with them teachers are NOT the only ones?

they're not some special breed that take some pride in there work.

But I don't rant and rave to my employers that I want more money for it.

I'm good at what I do because of how I do it.

I asked a friend of mine who's a teacher how she never seems to bring work home with her, she said if you priorities your time right in the classroom you can get it done when the kids are working.

seems like perfect common sense to me?

What he said X 2

In addition, I'll be shown the door within half an hour of a cock up, what penance for a crap teacher ruining the education of a classroom of kids.

But the biggest bugbear I have with teachers is they talk about the 'pressure' of teaching...........no I'm leaving it there. Anyway my 10 minute lunchbreak is over and I'm here till 7pm

LZ5by5

LZ5by5 wrote: »

When's the last time you were in a school? Sorry I mean a Secondary School? I left in 2005 and I couldn't get out of my school quick enough. Students are out of control, I've seen 1st years barely up to your hip trying to start on 6th years, spitting on them and having the balls to slag a 6th year twice their size. And that's just what they do to other students.

I've seen them punch teachers in the balls, I've seen them square up to teachers who have been feared and respected by students for decades and I've seen them say vulgar things such as "sugar tits" to their teacher. They have no fear, they go wild in class and it's impossible to control them. The parents don't care, they think their children are angels and that the teachers must be victimisng them. Just recently I heard three 3rd years were expelled for sexually harassing a teacher.

What I'm trying to say is that it is a tough job, an increasingly difficult job and a job where students are becoming increasingly worse when it comes to behaviour. You don't have to worry about it being an "unsackable" job because they are already walking away from it in numbers due to stress and having nervous breakdowns. They are not paid enough IMO.

And how does teachers getting paid more change the behaviour of the kids?

If there's a problem in controlling students, then its up to the Government to deal with that by giving schools more power to expel unruly people

Increasing teachers' pay is not going to change the stressful nature of the job, is it?

supadude

its a good job for the money when you do f*ck all

Lockstep

gurramok wrote: »

You have just scored an own goal for the teachers.

You have proved that they can indeed strike during the summer hols as after all they 'still work' and they are using the kids in Sept as leverage.

Not really.

If you are striking you want to make sure that you get noticed.

Not much point if it's indirect; affecting their own research or affects the kids getting grinds/going to summer schools.


Try harder next time.

gurramok

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Not really.

If you are striking you want to make sure that you get noticed.

Not much point if it's indirect; affecting their own research or affects the kids getting grinds/going to summer schools.


Try harder next time.

Nice try.

They have 3 months of hols where they can lobby the public on their pay grievances over 60k pa.

You know well why they be told to feck off beacuse the lines to that radio show will be jammed with dole queuers instead who are living off 200quid a week.

oceanclub

I bow to no-one in my detestation of Fianna Fail. If there was an election tomorrow between them and a coalition of the Taliban and the Nazi Party, I would vote for FF after much soul-searching and with a heavy heart.

But, if I was Bat O'Keeffe and had to listen to that woman, I'm pretty sure I would have been tempted to turn around and say "And what did you think you were doing, buying a house in your early 20s that worth eight times your salary? Did you think there was never a chance of it going wrong?".

Also, I would love to know who she voted for in the last election.

P.

Lockstep

gurramok wrote: »

Nice try.

They have 3 months of hols where they can lobby the public on their pay grievances over 60k pa.

You know well why they be told to feck off beacuse the lines to that radio show will be jammed with dole queuers instead who are living off 200quid a week.

SInce when have strikes ever been done on a Sunday afternoon when everyone stays home?

gurramok

kickoutthejams wrote: »

SInce when have strikes ever been done on a Sunday afternoon when everyone stays home?

So there are 90 Sundays in 90 days holidays in the summer?

Now, you are taking the preverbial

FlutterinBantam

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah sigh!

Bottom line
Expenditure 56b
Income 36b

---

Deficit -20b.


What part of "go figure " does the Public service not understand.

They did not cause the problem,we all know who did.

Get on with it.

Lockstep

gurramok wrote: »

So there are 90 Sundays in 90 days holidays in the summer?

Now, you are taking the preverbial

*Woosh.*
(sound of a point completely going over your head)


Point being; when you strike, you don't do it when you won't really be noticed (like a Sunday afternoon), you do it when you'll have the maximum impact.

How many people would really take notice if the teachers were striking in the summer?
"Oh deary me, the teachers are striking again. Never mind, little Johnny is on holiday"

FlutterinBantam

No you don't buddy.

You do it when it is the only LEGITIMATE way of advancing your cause and when it is a just strike and all other avenues have been exhausted.

Dublin Bus drivers couldn't go on strike for $200 per hour.

Fighting Irish

The teachers have every right to be pissed

Heres how i see it

You want to become a teacher and live an easy enough life?
Yes. OK, here's a contract.
No. OK, that's your choice.
Do Da Do Da Do.
OK hold on a min, we have some bad news, most of the country thought they were rich and went out and bought 400K houses 15K cars and a 50" plasma and now the country is fooked, and we're going to have to cancel your contract and give you another one that royally screws you.




Everyone knows the teacher situation(job for life) its up to you if you choose it or not, I've no interest in being a teacher but i'm not gonna turn around in 10 years time and bitch at teachers because they're bitching about having to take cuts because the country fooked up. I could have became a teacher but i didn't.
Teachers are one of the groups of people in this country that defo didn't cause the mess!


ps I'm not a teacher

gurramok

kickoutthejams wrote: »

*Woosh.*
(sound of a point completely going over your head)


Point being; when you strike, you don't do it when you won't really be noticed (like a Sunday afternoon), you do it when you'll have the maximum impact.

How many people would really take notice if the teachers were striking in the summer?
"Oh deary me, the teachers are striking again. Never mind, little Johnny is on holiday"

Its paid holidays or as you say they still 'work' during those 3 months so plenty of time to strike to garner their case.

They are waiting till Sept to strike over pay to have 'maximum impact' as you say and little 5yr olds just out of kindergarten will be affected and thats immoral.

gurramok

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Teachers are one of the groups of people in this country that defo didn't cause the mess!

Neither did most of us that were prudent.

You see that word, prudence. If a teacher is in debt based on 60k wages, it is their own fault, no-one elses.

Using kids to get xtra pay over everyone else via less taxes is outrageous.

FlutterinBantam

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah sigh!

Bottom line
Expenditure 56b
Income 36b

---

Deficit -20b.


What part of "go figure " does the Public service not understand.

They did not cause the problem,we all know who did.

Get on with it.

Fighting Irish wrote: »

The teachers have every right to be pissed

Heres how i see it

You want to become a teacher and live an easy enough life?
Yes. OK, here's a contract.
No. OK, that's your choice.
Do Da Do Da Do.
OK hold on a min, we have some bad news, most of the country thought they were rich and went out and bought 400K houses 15K cars and a 50" plasma and now the country is fooked, and we're going to have to cancel your contract and give you another one that royally screws you.




Everyone knows the teacher situation(job for life) its up to you if you choose it or not, I've no interest in being a teacher but i'm not gonna turn around in 10 years time and bitch at teachers because they're bitching about having to take cuts because the country fooked up. I could have became a teacher but i didn't.
Teachers are one of the groups of people in this country that defo didn't cause the mess!


ps I'm not a teacher

Please buddy read the top quote.... irrespective as to who is right or wrong....

who is going to pay the teachers wages.???

there's 30 gallons of water in the tank

there are fifty people waiting for the water

Do we divide equally or give the twenty teachers a gallon each and let the 30 others exist on 10 gallons??

GTFO

Lockstep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No you don't buddy.

You do it when it is the only LEGITIMATE way of advancing your cause and when it is a just strike and all other avenues have been exhausted.

Dublin Bus drivers couldn't go on strike for $200 per hour.

See, thats the problem with the idea of a "legitimate" way.
No two people's idea of legitimate are the same.
William Martin Murphy's and Larkin's idea of the 1913 strike would differ a lot.


This doesn't detract from the point; you do a strike when it will have an effect.

gurramok wrote: »

Its paid holidays or as you say they still 'work' during those 3 months so plenty of time to strike to garner their case.

They are waiting till Sept to strike over pay to have 'maximum impact' as you say and little 5yr olds just out of kindergarten will be affected and thats immoral.

RIght, so should a shop worker go on strike when it's a bank holiday?
Y'know, they'll have more time to prepare. Or maybe, it just won't be noticed.

Strikes are pointless unless the public actually realise your on a strike.

The reason 5 year olds are affected is because that's the teachers job, and by striking they are not doing it.

Fighting Irish

gurramok wrote: »

Neither did most of us that were prudent.

You see that word, prudence. If a teacher is in debt based on 60k wages, it is their own fault, no-one elses.

Its the people that are in debt and have no way of paying it back who fooked the country

gurramok wrote: »

Using kids to get xtra pay over everyone else via less taxes is outrageous.

:rolleyes:

Fighting Irish

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Please buddy read the top quote.... irrespective as to who is right or wrong....

who is going to pay the teachers wages.???

there's 30 gallons of water in the tank

there are fifty people waiting for the water

Do we divide equally or give the twenty teachers a gallon each and let the 30 others exist on 10 gallons??

GTFO

I understand that but there are plenty of ways to cut costs, i see so much pointless **** in this country that's its not even funny

ibarelycare

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Teachers are one of the groups of people in this country that defo didn't cause the mess!

Yeah, because I'm sure no teacher in the country borrowed way beyond their means :rolleyes:

Why do people keep implying this?!! You could say the same about any profession (besides bankers & politicians!); that they're not responsible for the state of the country. But that's crap...there are people up and down the country in all walks of life & all professions who borrowed to their hilt over the past 7 or 8 years! And I'm sure many of them were teachers, just as many were butchers, accountants, taxi drivers, doctors, etc. Unfortunately, the whole country is paying for the mistakes that were made, and that's just the way it is. Teachers should stop whinging and accept that they've to suck it up like the rest of us.

Fighting Irish

Yes they might have but they defo had a means of paying it back

ibarelycare wrote: »

Yeah, because I'm sure no teacher in the country borrowed way beyond their means :rolleyes:

Why do people keep implying this?!! You could say the same about any profession (besides bankers & politicians!); that they're not responsible for the state of the country. But that's crap...there are people up and down the country in all walks of life & all professions who borrowed to their hilt over the past 7 or 8 years! And I'm sure many of them were teachers, just as many were butchers, accountants, taxi drivers, doctors, etc. Unfortunately, the whole country is paying for the mistakes that were made, and that's just the way it is. Teachers should stop whinging and accept that they've to suck it up like the rest of us.

jimmycrackcorm

/ Copies and pastes all the posts from the previous benchmarking threads a few years ago.

ibarelycare

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Yes they might have but they defo had a means of paying it back

Eh so did everyone else at the time. Look at the tens of thousands of jobs that have been lost in the last 6 months....do you not think any of those people were professionals who had "secure" jobs? Teachers should be grateful they still have a job and can still pay their 300k bloody mortgages. Everyone has less disposable income than they had this time last year.

odonogar

Fighting Irish wrote: »

The teachers have every right to be pissed

Heres how i see it

You want to become a teacher and live an easy enough life?
Yes. OK, here's a contract.
No. OK, that's your choice.
Do Da Do Da Do.
OK hold on a min, we have some bad news, most of the country thought they were rich and went out and bought 400K houses 15K cars and a 50" plasma and now the country is fooked, and we're going to have to cancel your contract and give you another one that royally screws you.




Everyone knows the teacher situation(job for life) its up to you if you choose it or not, I've no interest in being a teacher but i'm not gonna turn around in 10 years time and bitch at teachers because they're bitching about having to take cuts because the country fooked up. I could have became a teacher but i didn't.
Teachers are one of the groups of people in this country that defo didn't cause the mess!


ps I'm not a teacher

It's not as black and white as teachers having no responsibilty for the country being "fooked up". By that logic, teachers had no responsibility for the boom years and therefore shouldn't have received pay rises over the last 15 years.

I don't know who promised them their "job for life" but that doesn't entitle them to immunity from budget cuts for their entire career.

Personally I'm three years out of College and a year away from a professional qualification. My company has introduced a 7.5% pay cut across the board and a pay freeze for the foreseeable future. As a result I'll be earning 15K less than what was promised to me on joining the company three years. I'm not going to moan about it, just get on with it and continue to work 60 hours a week because that's how the economy is right now.

senordingdong

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

I think anyone in a job right now, is crass moaning about money.

Buuuut, when teachers are losing jobs and Special Needs Assistants are losing their jobs, fair enough. Class sizes get bigger, the most vulnerable kids are left behind, and we have a lot more adults with problems in 10/15 years. You may moan about that.

The vulnerable kids get left behind anyway.
The only difference now is that the Govt. aren't throwing money their way to make it look like they are helping.

They are giving nothing and getting the same results.

Ace2007

Fighting Irish wrote: »

The teachers have every right to be pissed

Heres how i see it

You want to become a teacher and live an easy enough life?
Yes. OK, here's a contract.
No. OK, that's your choice.
Do Da Do Da Do.
OK hold on a min, we have some bad news, most of the country thought they were rich and went out and bought 400K houses 15K cars and a 50" plasma and now the country is fooked, and we're going to have to cancel your contract and give you another one that royally screws you.




Everyone knows the teacher situation(job for life) its up to you if you choose it or not, I've no interest in being a teacher but i'm not gonna turn around in 10 years time and bitch at teachers because they're bitching about having to take cuts because the country fooked up. I could have became a teacher but i didn't.
Teachers are one of the groups of people in this country that defo didn't cause the mess!

ps I'm not a teacher

The highlighted statment is clearly not true, Ireland is not in a mess because of the bankers or the developers alone, Yes mabe the banks did give out to much money in loans and mortages and yes the builders did build alot of houses, but here's the thing - The banks didn't force anyone to take a loan, the builders didn't force anyone to buy a house. The people - teachers, doctors, bus drivers, accountants, everyone wanted to buy houses the second car, the holiday home, the nice tv's , 2/3 holidays a year.

I have said it 100's of times before there is no reason why anyone needs to spend 30K+ on a car - what is wrong with having a 6/7 year old car - why do people need new and improved cars, the 50" tvs, the fancy landscape gardens to show off to their friends?

We are now in a recession, which means people have to take cuts - the standard of living in this country has to come down which means people have to take pay cuts, in some cases people will have to lose their jobs - we have seen this, ireland doesn't have competition in the work place any more, its way cheaper to get things produced abroad.

If we want to impove the economy everyone has to take cuts - the result will be the standard of living will be cut, everything will become cheaper and yes maybe one day the standard of living will improve(but it will never be as good as it was).

Its not my fault or FF's fault or the head of the AIB's fault that some people got themselves into way to much debt - its your own fault, just like it was your choice to become a teacher or nurse or whatever - no one made you take out a mortgage, if people weren't driven to buy - the prices of houses wouldn't of increased the way they did - the banks wouldn't have given out huge sums of money - its the people's fault that we are were we are now.

Ireland was built on hard workin honest people - the people who built up the Celtic Tiger were not on €1000 a week, - somewhere along the way though people became greedy - the unions got way too strong - and the celtic tiger soon disappeared - we became a nation that believed what people told us.

Teachers as well as nurses and other public workers must see this, its not about the fact that "we educate the future leaders of this country", its about the here and now.

When i was in school there was 30+ in my primary school, the size of the class make no difference if the school is well run and respect is shown all round - by teachers/students etc - example of this - the Institute of Edcuation - some of the classes have 100+ people - no one complains -everyone gets on with the work and thats why they are one of the best schools around.

its stated above that the average wage is something like 64K a year - teachers also get 2/3 weeks holidays @ christmas, 2/3 weeks holidays @ easter and 3/4 months holidays @ summer - the life of a teacher may not be great cause of what you may or may not have to put up with but the pro's will always outweight the con's.

ntlbell

Fighting Irish wrote: »

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: != an argument.

Fighting Irish

So last year every job in the country was a "job for life" :rolleyes:

ibarelycare wrote: »

Eh so did everyone else at the time. Look at the tens of thousands of jobs that have been lost in the last 6 months....do you not think any of those people were professionals who had "secure" jobs? Teachers should be grateful they still have a job and can still pay their 300k bloody mortgages. Everyone has less disposable income than they had this time last year.

Fighting Irish

ntlbell wrote: »

:rolleyes: != an argument.

What he/you said was stupid


couldn't be arsed looking back to see who said it