Mods should all follow the same rules

ellie1

Hello,

I am just here to make a point.(specifically in personal issues) I think some of the moderators are absolutely fantastic. They offer both empathic and common sense advice. Some have fantastic qualities and if they are not in a counselling etc feild they really should be as some offer invaluable insight which is admired by many and envied by others. Some are so articulate and so non judgemental, its great to see people giving up there time to help others.

I sometimes feel some moderaters allow posters including me to have a wee debate around the ops issue. Even other moderaters will join in the debate which i think is helpfull to the op. Yet others will jump in immediatly and give infractions.

This is annoying as you see so many judgemental, unhelpfull, downright nasty comments made and not a word is said. Then you can get infracted for commenting on comments made by other users. Maybe they are not immediatly helpfull to the op. However, a wee bit of banter and debating around the issue can be indeed helpfull to the op. Even if it is just to see the different opinions and views which are out there. Some times humour can be a great intervention as I have found.

Obviously, there are times when a moderater has to step in however if some are going to do things one way and others another way, it can be very confusing.

Thats just my humble opinion. apoligies for my poor spelling and if it seems somewhat ignorant to some. I am also aware that many moderaters will be very defensive on this issue.

lynsalot

Ellie I totally agree with you. I was new to the forum some weeks ago and I read a comment from a mod that said they removed a comment from a poster who had been offering advice. I didn't understand what was wrong and I couldn't read the post. I replied on the foum and said "Hi *mod's name* i'm just wondering if you can tell what the poster said that was wrong - I'm new and don't know how this works thanks a million" and they wrote back saying I should NEVER question a mod's decision and gave me an infraction. This is pure abuse of the system. Ok so I questioned their decision but it wasn't because I wanted to cause trouble I was truly wondering what had gone wrong because I didn't see it and i was new.

Some other mods are very opinionated and argumentative which isn't helpful at all. I do agree that in particular in personal issues the mods can't be argumentative and picking on people's grammar and silly things like that. I also agree that I've found lots of the mods are very helpful.

Some mods in my opinion don't deserve their power.

deadhead13

lynsalot wrote: »

"Hi *mod's name* i'm just wondering if you can tell what the poster said that was wrong - I'm new and don't know how this works thanks a million" and they wrote back saying I should NEVER question a mod's decision and gave me an infraction.

That does sound OTT alright.

WhiteWashMan

I can fully apprecaite your point, but we have an old saying here at boards.

mods are users too.

we all do our best all the time, but sometimes, we do make silly decisions. or we make decisions that appear silly to others, but seem right down the line to us. its all about perspective.
with PI being such an emotive forum, there is not too much leeway with what can be deemed acceptable and non acceptable.

to be honest, while it is annoying, I wouldnt take it too much to heart.
A quick PM to the mod in question and usually these things sort themselves out.

if it doesnt, then, take it on the chin, and remember not to do the same thing again in the same forum.

the rules are not the same everywhere, and there are different interpretaions of those rules. when i was PI mod, i was quite lax, and i understood that humour can be a very stress relieving thing. some of my co-mods didnt neccesaily feel that way.

this probably doesnt help in the slightest with your infraction, but i hope it helps you to understand how things are.
we are working at 'fixing' a few things, but with so many mods, and so lage a site, its taking a little bit of time

WhiteWashMan

lynsalot wrote: »

they wrote back saying I should NEVER question a mod's decision and gave me an infraction.

on the other hand, that is just bad moderating and a stupid thing to say.

Silverfish

ellie1, your post that earned you the infraction was a cruel jibe at a poster using something they had posted in a different thread.

That sort of thing will earn you an infraction.

When you edited the post, I removed the infraction.

Surely you understand that we cannot allow posters to make digs at other posters based on their PI threads or posts. I'm sure a lot of posters would find that extremely upsetting.

ellie1 wrote: »

This is annoying as you see so many judgemental, unhelpfull, downright nasty comments made and not a word is said.

In this instance, usually the poster is banned. This is not always posted on the thread that they are banned. If you see posts like these, the correct procedure is to report them, not for people to pile in making comments of their own on it. It drags a thread off-topic and makes difficult reading, and is of no help to the OP of the thread.

AckwelFoley

There are 50 or so mods on boards i think. Each will have a different approach to moderating. Certain fora will attract a type of fanboy poster that makes it difficult to control, eg soccer..and just thread on the last nerve of the mods making them more irritable and less patient.

..failing that, there is the odd arsehole mod..

ellie1

Thanks for them replys. I totally understand mods are users too and have indeed as i mentioned all ready great respect and admiration for some.

I also understand that they are human and make mistakes. I am also aware that personal issues is heavily moderated and with good reason too. I just feel that given the site is so heavily moderated , maybe the mods on it should come to some agreement on what is deemed to be an infractionable offence.

And I feel some mods go to far and I dont throw the word "power tripping" or "OTT" around lightly. I did question it and changed my comment and was advised to come here if i felt this way.

i will try to just take it on the chin in future.

And silverfish, I was infracted well before that comment which was edited and you know it. Go back and read it. It was a bit of banter with another poster. He made a smart comment and I commented on his comment.

orestes

snyper wrote: »

There are 50 or so mods on boards i think. Each will have a different approach to moderating. Certain fora will attract a type of fanboy poster that makes it difficult to control, eg soccer..and just thread on the last nerve of the mods making them more irritable and less patient.

..failing that, there is the odd arsehole mod..

As far as I am aware there are over 700 mods at the last count

Silverfish

ellie1 wrote: »

And silverfish, I was infracted well before that comment which was edited and you know it. Go back and read it. It was a bit of banter with another poster. He made a smart comment and I commented on his comment.

Yes ... you made the comment, I infracted, you changed the comment, I removed the infraction.

ellie1

It was not a cruel jibe as you said. It was a bit of banter with a poster who is well capable of forming his own opinion on it. And yes I did change it as I am a rule follower. (most of the time)Thats not to say that I am not guilty of giving ill-informed advice or of making comments which clearly may demand more attension. I am open to criticism of my comments which I have recieved on occassion

However, I suggest that you follow some general rules and stop throwing infractions around. It cannot be one rule for one and another rule for another.This is the second time you have done it to me and the last time was when I suggested some one was a troll. (and it was ) Other moderaters are more lenient and will join the debate and share their opinions and god forbid have a bit of banter.

Though still fair play to you, its a hard job to do. Just disagree with you on this.



And in some cases the person making the comments isnt barred. In fact , some are condecending, patronising and nasty yet because they have a better grasp of the english language or are very articulate, they get away with it.

Silverfish

ellie1 wrote: »

However, I suggest that you follow some general rules and stop throwing infractions around. It cannot be one rule for one and another rule for another.This is the second time you have done it to me and the last time was when I suggested some one was a troll. (and it was ) Other moderaters are more lenient and will join the debate and share their opinions and god forbid have a bit of banter.

Though still fair play to you, its a hard job to do. Just disagree with you on this.



I

The last time you were infracted it was because you repeatedly ignored the charter, and you were warned on the thread, and you ignored that too.

That's hardly 'throwing infractions around', if a moderator gives you a warning to stop and obey the charter, it usually means it might not be a good idea to completely ignore them.

I'm not aware of any general rules which say a poster should not be infracted for that.

A 'job' implies we get paid to do this, we are real people behind the screen and we will have different ways of dealing with things. I'm pretty sure if I made a mistake on your previous infraction, a co-mod would have spoken up.

Likewise in this case, if and when another PI mod tells me I have done wrong, I will reconsider.

Unfortunately, since your infraction was reversed, there is actually nothing else I can physically do.

WhiteWashMan

ellie1 wrote: »

It was not a cruel jibe as you said. It was a bit of banter with a poster who is well capable of forming his own opinion on it.


And in some cases the person making the comments isnt barred. In fact , some are condecending, patronising and nasty yet because they have a better grasp of the english language or are very articulate, they get away with it.

it would seem that different people have different opinions on what is acceptable and what is not.

who knew?

your banter may not be seen as such, and you have to take reponsibility for all you say, to everyone, not just directed at one poster.

yes, lots of people say things to lots of people, but please dont think that because some people get away with some things thats its ok. its just means that it hasnt been dealt with. that you know of.

i often pm people i have an issue with. as another user on a forum, you wouldnt be aware of this.

but at the end of the day, you got infracted, it got removed, what else would you like from the moderator?

Nevyn

ellie1 I suggest you take your grievence to the help desk forum, as that is the place for it.

Can an smod make that happen please.

so WWM any chance you are looking to return as a PI mod ? :P

ellie1

Silverfish, you can use the backup system of all your co-mods all you want and indeed you can all join in and back him up.

In any case, sometimes you must remember where you came from. You were originally a poster like myself. Sometimes you cant see what others can see. that person was a troll making a total mockery of personal issues forum and despite the warnings of mods and charter. Why cant I have the right to stand up and say that sombody is taking the piss out of all the advice givers there. It should have been pulled long before and it wasnt till many start getting infracted, barred that it was locked.
I still think you were wrong considering other posts have banter going on within them which may be deemed as offensive and unhelpful and off topic to some.

what else would you like from the moderator?

To all follow the same rules.

In future, I will try to ensure my light hearted banter is of a helpfull nature to the op. Thank you for offering me this site to share my humble views ,Silverfish. Its been quite enlightening.

ellie1 I suggest you take your grievence to the help desk forum, as that is the place for it

.

I was advised by mod to come here.

And I dont want to go anywhere else as I have learnt a lot here from this wee discussion.

Latchy

Originally Posted by lynsalot
they wrote back saying I should NEVER question a mod's decision and gave me an infraction.

I had something similar a few weeks back which I thought was also OTT as I wasn't ( I thought ) questioning the mod or any mods decision on the topic . But either way, as mentioned , just took it on the chin .

Offy

Some mods are twats and some mods are sound, they are just people at the end of the day.

Asiaprod

Thaedydal wrote: »

ellie1 I suggest you take your grievence to the help desk forum, as that is the place for it.

Can an smod make that happen please.

It appears that this thread has run its course here.

If the OP wishes to move this thread to the help desk to continue the discussion, please let me know and I will be happy to move it for you.

Please bear in mind, Mods are human, they are often looking at the bigger picture. With 700 mods on board there will always be differences in approach. If you find yourself in a dispute a courteous PM will often work wonders, if not, bring it to the help desk where all claims are look at.

lynsalot

Hi Ellie

I think your original point must be referred to that there should be uniform rules in place.

Surely moderation of the a site means that the ppl moderating are singing from the same hymn sheet. Otherwise there' no point having a democracy where some ppl's posts can be penalised and others not. I wouldn't be so picky about this if I hadn't been affected.

Ellie, you are completely right with regards to the wording and phrasing of the replies. Except i had a "banter" with a moderator who was downright insulting and rude. I responded defending my opinion and was told he wouldn't waste his time with me. I just can't understand how thats allowed. I really can't. It's downright rude and surely someone like this shouldn't be picking and choosing the posts which are and aren't allowed. So i got arsey and wrote back and made a comment just to rise him - totally on purpose - wasn't too bad mind but he had the cheek to say he wouldn't hand out an infraction co it was only the internet lol - bit rich.

Anyway that's my tuppence worth. who moderates the moderators? 700 mods? Too many chefs and all that surely?

Again I have to say some of ye are acting fairly and it's great to see.

Nevyn

All of the PI/RI mods have the same remit to enforce the rules as in the charter and the site rules, we do confer with each other but people's styles will differ.

PI/RI can get very busy and we can't read every post so please help us keep the moderation of the fourm up to standard by reporting posts.

Nevyn

oh and ellie1 even after you edited your post I would not have had that infraction reversed. So really be glad it's Silverfish you had dealings with not me as she was kind enough to take into consideration that you have not been on boards very long and are still learning how things work.

As for who mods the moderators lynsalot there is a chain of command, mods, category mods, smods and the admins.

It starts with me looking over my co mods actions and if I was to think they were out of line then I will tell them. In forums which I do not mod if I think a mod of that forum is out of line I will report the post.
The cat mods will get a copy of it and if I think a mod is really out of line well then there is the option to
start a thread in helpdesk or to pm an smod. Every poster can pm the relevant cat mod or smod if they are not happy, don't want to start a thread in helpdesk and feel it is warranted..

There is a system in place and when a mod is wrong they say sorry and get sanctioned in extreme cases they step down or are removed by the admin/site owners.

Overheal

Its unrealistic to expect identical moderation from all moderators. They are human after all, and situations that arise can be irregular. Also, boards.ie is not Democratic. Its a privately owned website.

I had my own share of infractions and bannings from PI in my earlier days. Learn to step back and let others help OPs also. You don't need to get yourself involved in every PI. Also, posting

+1

Has been made redundant by the Thanks System:

Furthermore its not always wise or necessary to force your point. On many issues there are varying opinions and just because you aren't Winning The Thread so to speak, is no reasons to drag it into a debate. Only the OP needs to take whats said in their own PI thread personally - no use getting bothered if they decide to follow someone else's advice. To discuss the greater issues in general (cheating on partners, etc) you can also avail of the Humanities Forum.

If someone else post's something you find horrid, wrong, even illegal: Report the Post

Good advice for anyone posting in PI I think.

For more of these awesome words of wisdom click here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055461510

Nevyn

ellie1 wrote: »

Silverfish, you can use the backup system of all your co-mods all you want and indeed you can all join in and back him up.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

ellie1 wrote: »

In any case, sometimes you must remember where you came from. You were originally a poster like myself. Sometimes you cant see what others can see. that person was a troll making a total mockery of personal issues forum and despite the warnings of mods and charter. Why cant I have the right to stand up and say that sombody is taking the piss out of all the advice givers there. It should have been pulled long before and it wasnt till many start getting infracted, barred that it was locked.

How many of those post did you report ?

AT times even if a thread has been started by a suspect troll they are left to continue as the thread may provide helpful advice and information for others who may be in that situation for real. This is under the disgression of the PI/RI mods and it's all well and good to look back at a thread in hindsight and make judgment calls esp when you don't have all the information the PI/RI mods do.

ellie1 wrote: »

I still think you were wrong considering other posts have banter going on within them which may be deemed as offensive and unhelpful and off topic to some.

Again did you report those posts?

ellie1 wrote: »

In future, I will try to ensure my light hearted banter is of a helpfull nature to the op.

Great thats all we ask

ellie1 wrote: »

Thank you for offering me this site to share my humble views ,Silverfish. Its been quite enlightening.

Oh it's not Sliverfish's site they just volunteer here, it belongs to the admins.
.

ellie1 wrote: »

I was advised by mod to come here.

Really ? how strange if you have a specific grievance or complaint which it turns out you do no matter how general you worded your first post in this thread you are meant to use the helpdesk forum.

Does the auto infract message say helpdesk or feedback ?
Maybe that is an error that needs looking at.

ellie1 wrote: »

And I dont want to go anywhere else as I have learnt a lot here from this wee discussion.

Good.

DeVore

Funnily enough we are in the process of laying down some "guidelines" for posters so that the place will run a bit smoother and new users will get a faster, clearer idea of how the place works.

At last count we had 550+ moderators and 20 admins (give or take). Every forum has its own level of strictness about it, PI being one of the stricter places because there are vulnerable people there who might not appreciate humour being made around their issue. "Afterhours" has a more laisse-faire approach!

Enjoy Boards Responsibly!


DeV.

ynotdu

DeVore wrote: »

Funnily enough we are in the process of laying down some "guidelines" for posters so that the place will run a bit smoother and new users will get a faster, clearer idea of how the place works.

At last count we had 550+ moderators and 20 admins (give or take). Every forum has its own level of strictness about it, PI being one of the stricter places because there are vulnerable people there who might not appreciate humour being made around their issue. "Afterhours" has a more laisse-faire approach!

Enjoy Boards Responsibly!


DeV.

could not agree more about vunerable people,I have seen posters who seem deeply depressed seemingly close to suicide or at least in a very low dark time in their lives.it is often obvious that they might need profesional help.it needs to be highly moderated as often well meaning advice or worse still criticism of them, could push some over the edge.no matter how absurd or self pitying a post might seem to readers at that time it is a snapshot of were they are in themselfs and stuck in that mindset.one thoughtless or cruel remark might finish it for them,they may have turned to boards.ie in a highly distressed state of mind as a last resort that someone might recognise they are in deep emotional pain.

If i had one suggestion it would be that the personal issues forum would provide links,phone numbers,voluntry groups(with experianced people)wherever available.
thank you.

Zaph

ynotdu wrote: »

If i had one suggestion it would be that the personal issues forum would provide links,phone numbers,voluntry groups(with experianced people)wherever available.
thank you.

The forum charter does actually contain an extensive list of links for oganisations dealing with everything from mental health to family planning. Where appropriate the mods will often provide a link to an organisation that may be of use to the OP, should they know of any. However, the provision of links (or indeed providing advice) isn't the function of the mods in PI, but ensuring the the smooth running of the forum is. Were we to go searching for appropriate organisations that could help the OP in every thread the forum would most definitely suffer.

Nevyn

ynotdu wrote: »

If i had one suggestion it would be that the personal issues forum would provide links,phone numbers,voluntry groups(with experianced people)wherever available.
thank you.

I endeavor to do that where ever possible, I have a list of 43 links with numbers and contact details and use them where applicable in PI/RI threads.

Overheal

Thaedydal wrote: »

I endeavor to do that where ever possible, I have a list of 43 links with numbers and contact details and use them where applicable in PI/RI threads.

Truly, Miss Thaed has a crackshot rolodex. Salute.

"I have seen posters who seem deeply depressed seemingly close to suicide or at least in a very low dark time in their lives.it is often obvious that they might need profesional help.it needs to be highly moderated as often well meaning advice or worse still criticism of them, could push some over the edge."

which is why you may sometimes spot one such thread which will get insta-locked with the express advice that the person needs to seek a professional. There are just some cases that are too volatile to be left to the internet.

ynotdu

Zaph thank you and excuse me for not checking it out a bit more.(the charter)

no offense meant to you but the bit about smooth running of the forum on personal issues and how the mod cannot be responsible comes across a bit callous(like a charter/excuse for a mod washing their hands)like i said I think it is a highly responsible job to moderate a personal issues forum and a walking on eggshell exercise.I wonder is it even too dangerous an area for a non specific site like boards.ie to have a forum about?

DeVore

Its not a suicide forum, its a "personal issues" forum. The fact that sometimes people come here looking for something in desperation says a lot more about the bit of society that ISNT boards.ie then the bit that IS.

This is all off the (thinly veiled) original topic too. The same rules cannot and should not be followed by all the mods. There is no "one size fits all" set of rules. There are some "core values" we retain here and we are going to centralise them but the idea that the mods of say, humour, should apply the same rules as the mods of Relationship Issues? Not a good idea.


DeV.

ynotdu

aw c,mon nobody said it is a suicide forum,merely personal issues are usually what lead to suicide,bit of a cheap shot?

otherwise i totally agree diffrient forums(outside of the core values,which must be good ones as the site seems to remain very popular,so most admins,mods must be doing a good job!)require diffrient talents,diffrient interests and expertise,some forums require a deff hand,others a heavy hand.I think all must require a sense of humour at times:)
Regards