TDs to keep bonus payments despite budget vow

alegrabaroque

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Make up your mind . . in line with the average wage and the cost of living is not the same thing as increasing relative to performance. . in fact it is the opposite. . your political theories seem confused !

And if you care to read the thread thoroughly you will note that I confirmed my occupation already (not that it is relevant in any way to the discussion !)

You said you run a department in an organisation you didn`t say what organisation unless I`m mistaken.
And I said that my pay would increase in line with my performance as would everyone elses. I would be getting the same wage as the average person. So therefore if I`m doing my job right the average persons pay is increasing so is my pay, or if the prices of things are coming down I have more left at the end of the week so there is a benefit to me just like everyone else. Do you understand now or do I have to explain more...

Boskowski

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Running a country is a serious business . . and it requires serious businessmen with serious skills . .

Agreed, it just seems to me that our current political system is not suited to bring those kind of people to the top. What comes to the top through our political parties are people who got a law degree but then never work in their field and then spend the next 15 years maneuvering, scheming, conning, bull****ting and arse-licking their way up.

alegrabaroque

realcam wrote: »

Agreed, it just seems to me that our current political system is not suited to bring those kind of people to the top. What comes to the top through our political parties are people who got a law degree but then never work in their field and then spend the next 15 years maneuvering, scheming, conning, bull****ting and arse-licking their way up.

I couldn`t (and didn`t) put it more eliquently myself. Absolutely whole hearted agree!

hallelujajordan

alegrabaroque wrote: »

I couldn`t (and didn`t) put it more eliquently myself. Absolutely whole hearted agree!

But you don't agree . .REALCAM agreed with me that the government required serious businessmen with serious skills and you completely disagreed with this ???? The only bit you like is the rhetoric piece !

alegrabaroque wrote: »

You said you run a department in an organisation you didn`t say what organisation unless I`m mistaken.
And I said that my pay would increase in line with my performance as would everyone elses. I would be getting the same wage as the average person. So therefore if I`m doing my job right the average persons pay is increasing so is my pay, or if the prices of things are coming down I have more left at the end of the week so there is a benefit to me just like everyone else. Do you understand now or do I have to explain more...

A) You are mistaken . . I have confirmed in an earlier post that I am a scientist and not a banker (again, totally irrelevant to the discussion)

Your argument is nonsense . . . Everyone's pay increases at the same rate, so the average pay goes up, yet at the same time, average prices go down (so the economy is inflating and deflating at the same time ? ?)

C) No I do not understand and Yes, you will need to explain it more to me

stateofflux

there is absolutely no justification for TD's to get any bonus pay after making a vow on budget day.....by doing so its verging on criminality IMHO.....the whole country are getting the legs cut off them in tax at the moment......i am so insulted and enraged that anyone is even siding with these greedy people in power. talking as if they care for the welfare of the state......and deserve a reward for long service......in case you forgot.....the tony gregory's of this world are very few and far between.....

"anyone for golf?"...."yes brian i think i'll join you first class all the way to florida....we can toast to the apethy of the peasants and feast on the rewards of gluttony"......

hallelujajordan

stateofflux wrote: »

there is absolutely no justification for TD's to get any bonus pay after making a vow on budget day.....by doing so its verging on criminality IMHO.....the whole country are getting the legs cut off them in tax at the moment......i am so insulted and enraged that anyone is even siding with these greedy people in power. talking as if they care for the welfare of the state......and deserve a reward for long service......in case you forgot.....the tony gregory's of this world are very few and far between.....

"anyone for golf?"...."yes brian i think i'll join you first class all the way to florida....we can toast to the apethy of the peasants and feast on the rewards of gluttony"......

Such Rubbish. Did you know that Tony Gregory was one of the TD's who was still drawing the difference between his teachers salary and the salary paid to his replacement . . . on top of his TD salary . . . . and he will have been one of the TD's drawing long-service payments. . .

My point is that relative to their peers in the private sector and our expectations of them, our TD's are not vastly overpaid. . . There are some ridiculous payments in the system that ought to be removed (teacher payments, ministerial pensions, unvouched expenses) but this long-service payment is not one of them.

Our politicians are a popular and easy target however most of them have taken significant hits (somewhere in the region of 20% of their take home) and some of them have taken huge hits. . (e.g. Bertie Aherne will (quite rightly) lose his ministerial pension which will take his pay from 220k down to about 100k(standard TD salary))

O'Coonassa

hallelujajordan wrote: »

but we chose them . . .

No we didn't. Their Party machinery funded by banksters and other assorted corporate leeches is what chose them.

hallelujajordan

O'Coonassa wrote: »

No we didn't. Their Party machinery funded by banksters and other assorted corporate leeches is what chose them.

Apologies, I understood we lived in a democracy where our public representatives were elected . . where each one of us has the opportunity to put him or herself forwar for election . .

I also understood that it was the electorate that continued to put back in place a FF led government over the last decade or so, probably because our tax was reducing and our standard of living was increasing . .

Maybe we should take some responsibility for our choices ? ? ?

stateofflux

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Such Rubbish. Did you know that Tony Gregory was one of the TD's who was still drawing the difference between his teachers salary and the salary paid to his replacement . . . on top of his TD salary . . . . and he will have been one of the TD's drawing long-service payments. . .

my point is he did something that deserved it

My point is that relative to their peers in the private sector and our expectations of them, our TD's are not vastly overpaid.

relative to their peers maybe but they are still getting paid too much

Our politicians are a popular and easy target however most of them have taken significant hits (somewhere in the region of 20% of their take home) and some of them have taken huge hits. . (e.g. Bertie Aherne will (quite rightly) lose his ministerial pension which will take his pay from 220k down to about 100k(standard TD salary))

i really doubt bertie is on 100k now....he learned from the master of deceit......please show evidence or an article that on average td's have taken in the region of a 20% cut in take home......id bet thats not true....

O'Coonassa

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Apologies, I understood we lived in a democracy where our public representatives were elected . . where each one of us has the opportunity to put him or herself forwar for election . .

I also understood that it was the electorate that continued to put back in place a FF led government over the last decade or so, probably because our tax was reducing and our standard of living was increasing . .

Maybe we should take some responsibility for our choices ? ? ?

Well I do take full responsibility for what I do but I certainly didn't choose anybody who'd been pre-selected for me to choose from or I'd have become morally responsible for what they do (ie: shafting people)

Just out of curiosity do you really think that some ordinary Joe with a little spare cash from outside of The Party really stands any chance of being elected? To get elected costs alot of money that ordinary people just don't have IMO

hallelujajordan

stateofflux wrote: »

i really doubt bertie is on 100k now....he learned from the master of deceit......please show evidence or an article that on average td's have taken in the region of a 20% cut in take home......id bet thats not true....

Article in yesterdays Sunday Indo . . "Ahern faces losing at least €120,000 a year" . .

Average TD on 100,000 will lose almost 10k in take home as a result of the income levies imposed in the budget . . . earlier, they lost an additional 7% in the Public service pension levy. . . so this makes up approx 17% before you look at the differences in expenses calculations. On top of this all of the cabinet plus a number of other TD's have already accepted a voluntary pay cut. . . I am not saying all of these cuts are not appropriate but I believe the long service payment needs to be viewed in the wider context. .

hallelujajordan

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Just out of curiosity do you really think that some ordinary Joe with a little spare cash from outside of The Party really stands any chance of being elected? To get elected costs alot of money that ordinary people just don't have IMO

Yes, on the one hand, all political parties are democratic . . join a party, attend the ard-fheis and try to influence their direction. .

On the other hand, there are plenty of 'Ordinary Joes' who have run for election and been successful.. It costs nothing to run for election and you can get a great deal of your expenses back if you manage to get somewhere in the region of .25 Quota. Particularly now, I think that Independent candidates will have a greater chance of being successful than ever !

hallelujajordan

stateofflux wrote: »

my point is he did something that deserved it

Perhaps you can elaborate. . What did Tony Gregory do to deserve the additional payments he received (ie. the difference between his teachers salary and the salary being paid to the teacher who replaced him (indexed linked of course)) above and beyond that which other TD's do . . And why did he deserve this substantial payment more than long serving TD's deserve the 6% long service payment ?

stateofflux

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Article in yesterdays Sunday Indo . . "Ahern faces losing at least €120,000 a year" . .

Average TD on 100,000 will lose almost 10k in take home as a result of the income levies imposed in the budget . . . earlier, they lost an additional 7% in the Public service pension levy. . . so this makes up approx 17% before you look at the differences in expenses calculations. On top of this all of the cabinet plus a number of other TD's have already accepted a voluntary pay cut. . . I am not saying all of these cuts are not appropriate but I believe the long service payment needs to be viewed in the wider context. .

Fair enough.....but i still find it hard to believe that a 17% hit will be fully imposed.....or accepted

stateofflux

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Perhaps you can elaborate. . What did Tony Gregory do to deserve the additional payments he received (ie. the difference between his teachers salary and the salary being paid to the teacher who replaced him (indexed linked of course)) above and beyond that which other TD's do . . And why did he deserve this substantial payment more than long serving TD's deserve the 6% long service payment ?

The gregory deal

hallelujajordan

stateofflux wrote: »

The gregory deal

Having a debate about Tony Gregory is way off topic, however the reality is that most of the Gregory Deal was never delivered because the Haughey government fell apart after only a couple of months . . .

Back on topic, to suggest that Gregory was entitled to his teachers salary for a further 27 years on the back of this and that this entitlement is greater than the entitlement of TD's who have served >10 years to a 6% long service payment just doesn't add up ? ?

Incidentally, Gregory was paid the €6k extra right up to his death . .

stateofflux wrote: »

Fair enough.....but i still find it hard to believe that a 17% hit will be fully imposed.....or accepted

The full 17% hit has already been imposed and accepted . . It is a combination of the income levy and the health levy (which has been imposed on all of us) and the pension levy (which has been imposed on all public sector workers). The full effect will hit all TD's in their May paycheck.

Alcatel

It's funny that the junior ministers will also now apparently get a payoff after being fired from the job.

These people are politicians, and FF'ers are meant to be the easiest to trot into line (so goes the old addage.)

If I were Cowan I'd be telling them that they can take the pay cuts/pension cuts and shut their mouths, and if they have a problem with it they can take the state to court over their lost earnings, and good luck to them in the next election.

Simple as that.

But it's not, because it's difficult to take money off your mates.

hallelujajordan

Entirely agree, this payment to outgoing junior ministers is ridiculous ! The irony is that in all likelihood we will have a general election at some point this year during which those jnr ministers will have automatically lost their jobs anyway so Cowens move to reduce the count of junior ministers is actually going to cost the state more . .

stateofflux

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Having a debate about Tony Gregory is way off topic, however the reality is that most of the Gregory Deal was never delivered because the Haughey government fell apart after only a couple of months . . .

Back on topic, to suggest that Gregory was entitled to his teachers salary for a further 27 years on the back of this and that this entitlement is greater than the entitlement of TD's who have served >10 years to a 6% long service payment just doesn't add up ? ?

Incidentally, Gregory was paid the €6k extra right up to his death .

did'nt mean to go off topic. i was just making the point of reward for action rather than getting bonus money on top of an oversized paycheck for doing feck all....td's are getting paid too much as are high level public servants.....even with a 17% hit.....

The full 17% hit has already been imposed and accepted . . It is a combination of the income levy and the health levy (which has been imposed on all of us) and the pension levy (which has been imposed on all public sector workers). The full effect will hit all TD's in their May paycheck.

thought it was 13%...i stand corrected....