Proof (if need be) that Cliff Burton was a legend

Mr. CooL ICE

Take Geddy lee as an example of a bassist that was around before Burton... Geddy Lee is, IMO, the perfect bass player. I urge anyone here to find a Rush bassline that can be improved upon. He was able to improvise over the guitar and drums to create a rich musical texture and when the situation demanded it, he knew when to sit back and play a simple rhythm. Did he create 4/5 minute-long bass solos? No. Was he capable of it? Absolutely, but I can only assume that Lee being the legend that he is (yes, I used the 'L' word) would fall asleep while playing such a thing and knew that anything that wanky would ruin a perfectly good song/album. Oh, and he played keyboards at the same time too...

Even taking his bass playing on a song-by-song basis... Although the power trio factor may influence this, Lee's basslines had a much larger impact on Rush's sound than Burton could ever wish for with Metallica. Now back (or forward) to the 80s thrash scene... On a song-by-song basis, I would also say that Dave Ellefson had a much bigger impact on Megadeth's sound than Burton had on Metallica, and same for Frank Bello again.

Doctor J

LordChessington wrote: »

Take the 'big 4' of thrash metal. Both David Ellefson of Megadeth and FranK Bello of Anthrax are superior bassists, and they're not called legends.

Because they're not superior bassists.

What needs to be remembered is that Cliff's career lasted all of three and a half years. He's a world reknowned bassist in one of the most rigid musical forms where, in all honesty, bass is almost an afterthought. Yet he managed to display so much of his talent and had a growing influence when his peers were not even in the same dimension. What had Frank Bello done by State Of Euphoria or Ellefson done by So Far, So Good... So What? Nothing, that's what. There's a lot more to Metal bass playing than just playing fast. That Metal bass playing has evolved as it has is largely as a result of the advances that Burton made. Ellefson was the guy who inspired me to play bass when I saw them in 88 and he will always have my total respect but he's just not in the same league as Burton. They were always backing players but Cliff was a rhythm player with the ability to lead, which is a phenominal acheivement for a bassist in a thrash band. His compositional and melodic skills really set him apart in a genre where his peers were generally shadowing the guitars. He opened peoples eyes to just what a Metal bassist could do and he was only going to get better, he never even got close to realising his potential.

breadbin

stop fighting over who is a better bassist its subjective is it not? don't know anything about playing bass myself so i can't comment anymore. i just like the way he plays on that video headbanging, hitting the guitar and what not, just the energy;)

120_Minutes

jesus, doc, i had to wait three pages for you to back me up, but i knew you wouldnt let me down!

I wont deny chess his geddy post, and i'm not even a rush fan, but he is a legend. (and i love his sig jazz)

Doctor J

Heh heh heh, it's only page two on my one. There have been some great bassists mentioned in this thread, all with different styles, different sounds, some with more technical strength than others, some with better melodic sense. The great players combine technical abilty with great musicality and, undeniably, Cliff possessed both of these traits, as do the other greats mentioned. The important bit is that we have these great players to draw inspiration from, they kicked down a lot of doors, showed the rest of us just what's possible with the instrument. I'd love to have seen what Cliff could have progressed on to but it wasn't to be, sadly.

seachto7

Ellefson, I find, tends to follow the guitar riffs, very tightly, yes, but I would expect a good bass player to go against the guitar riffs...

nyarlothothep

Cliff could easily have been the best songwriter in the band. He certainly demonstrated a lot of imagination beyond the chug chug chug of thrash metal. As a musician I think he's a legend, he was technically good, not the best, but pretty damn good and was inventive which is what really counts.

metzengerstein

120_Minutes wrote: »

fair point, but look at it from the 80's point of view. no one was doing that then. he was innovative. a bassist making his bass sound like a guitar is common place now.


has wooten got one piece of music that he would be remembered for in 30 years time? admittedly jaco has a couple, be he was also innovative. how many times have you heard "wooten, he's the guy that did....."


oh and to embed videos, use the youtube tags when you're posting and put the youtube url after the = in it.

yes he will be remembered for amazing grace,,and also there were bass players playing at a higher level than burton in the 70,s era who continued on through burtons time geezer is a good example and the distortion on the bass was already done as was a similar style to him ,try some jethro tull and there are some others

Doctor J

Nobody is saying Burton is the best bass player in the history of the world ever ever ever, just that, within the sometimes restrictive world of Metal of his day, he shone as someone with a unique way of doing the Metal thang. His compositional skills also set him apart, there was alot more to him than just banging out notes. Wooten is a fine player, but I'd like to see if he had the endurance to hammer out Disposable Heroes with the requisite aggression

Creeping-Death

seachto7 wrote: »

Ellefson, I find, tends to follow the guitar riffs, very tightly, yes, but I would expect a good bass player to go against the guitar riffs...

As did Geezer Butler, as do a lot of bass guitarists but theres a difference between following the guitar and blending in completely with it. Jason Newsted was forever riding on Hammet and Hetfield's jetstream, primarily because in my opinion he is just not a good enough musician to excel in his own right.
For me, Cliff Burton was and still is an excellent heavy metal bass playing, might not have been the most mercuriallt talented technically or otherwise, but he brought something different to the party. While i do agree that his death at a very young age has somewhat biased a lot of people in his favour, he was still bloody good at what he did.

Though for me, numero uno will always be Steve Harris.. His style, energy, writing ability but most of all the unique clattering sound of his.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM1NS11FBeg

A great example the whole song, but especially after about 2:55 where it starts to speed up..

metzengerstein

120_Minutes wrote: »

fair point, but look at it from the 80's point of view. no one was doing that then. he was innovative. a bassist making his bass sound like a guitar is common place now.


has wooten got one piece of music that he would be remembered for in 30 years time? admittedly jaco has a couple, be he was also innovative. how many times have you heard "wooten, he's the guy that did....."


oh and to embed videos, use the youtube tags when you're posting and put the youtube url after the = in it.

ahhh been away for awhile ,am back and a good listin too some stuff over the last while ,as for the playing the bass like a guitar it was done well before burton the likes of larry graham and bootsy had already done it and used the wah wah so it wasnt anything new,and yes they where stuill doing it when he was around,just that those type bass players maybe where not known to metal heads back then

metzengerstein

Creeping-Death wrote: »

As did Geezer Butler, as do a lot of bass guitarists but theres a difference between following the guitar and blending in completely with it. Jason Newsted was forever riding on Hammet and Hetfield's jetstream, primarily because in my opinion he is just not a good enough musician to excel in his own right.
For me, Cliff Burton was and still is an excellent heavy metal bass playing, might not have been the most mercuriallt talented technically or otherwise, but he brought something different to the party. While i do agree that his death at a very young age has somewhat biased a lot of people in his favour, he was still bloody good at what he did.

Though for me, numero uno will always be Steve Harris.. His style, energy, writing ability but most of all the unique clattering sound of his.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM1NS11FBeg

A great example the whole song, but especially after about 2:55 where it starts to speed up..[/QUO

harris is just amazing love playing along to his stuff,

Cathy666

Fixed that list for you there

.....

Steve Harris - Iron Maiden
Joey DeMaio - Manowar
Paul John Jones - Led Zeppelin
David Ellefson - Megadeth
Geezer Butler - Black Sabbath
John Entwhistle - The Who
Rex Brown - Pantera/ Down
Ed Gagliardi - Foreigner
Dennis Dunaway - Alice Cooper

metzengerstein

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Yes, Cliff Burton is good and entertaining, but not spectacular. I think a lot of Metallica fans are blinkered. There are so many amazing bass players out there, especially when combined with a good drummer.

Here are some influential (legendary ) bass players - all have different styles. Some of these are amazing at solos/ free style/ riffs.

Geddy Lee - Rush
Flea - RHCP
John Entwhistle - The Who
Rex Brown - Pantera/ Down
Ed Gagliardi - Foreigner
Paul John Jones - Led Zeppelin
David Ellefson - Megadeth
Geezer Butler - Black Sabbath
Dennis Dunaway - Alice Cooper

i like it,good list have you youtubed john entwhistles ox solo tis cool he has a cam on the head of the bass which looks mad,

carchaeologist

metzengerstein wrote: »

i like it,good list have you youtubed john entwhistles ox solo tis cool he has a cam on the head of the bass which looks mad,

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVl39LBZGMw

metzengerstein

thats the one

Mike Litoris

As a musician and a writer he stood out in that genre but for me he wasn't a legend. Then I again I think Steve Harris is a legend so....

In that genre I'd class Roger Patterson of Atheist as a legend. His playing on the Piece of Time album is amazing and totally fits the music unlike some virtuosos. Sadly he died before the started recording the second album.

Mental Mickey

Mike Litoris wrote: »

As a musician and a writer he stood out in that genre but for me he wasn't a legend. Then I again I think Steve Harris is a legend so....

In that genre I'd class Roger Patterson of Atheist as a legend. His playing on the Piece of Time album is amazing and totally fits the music unlike some virtuosos. Sadly he died before the started recording the second album.

LMAO @ your username.